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The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:09 pm
by mdegans
I've been able to Google the real names and usernames of various forum members and find:

- places of employment
- social media accounts
- dick pix
- racist slurs
- social media accounts with dick pix and racist slurs

More than enough to blackmail. Besides which people post their logs and details about the hardware and software they use here (including logs), it's a disaster waiting to happen. I'm not thrilled my name was linked to this account without my consent either, especially since the information was only given when I registered the program. That was some BS there. I fully expect the messenger to be shot here and the topic locked, but maybe, instead, Blackmagic can reconsider it's ill advised policy.

As a child I was taught by my parents to never use your real name online or give out any personally identifying information. That was back in the early 90s. At some point Facebook, in an exploitative effort, made it popular to throw caution to the wayside. As a result we have a clown as president*. Please stop imitating bad, unsafe, policies. Some of us have stalkers or otherwise need (or simply want) the anonymity.

* without real names the Russians would have had a more difficult time microtargeting actual voters.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:26 pm
by jamedia
As most (all?) of us are in business under our real names and companies with linked in profiles etc I can't see that using real names is a problem.


I can assume that you don't mind anyone knowing your company. I find it gets me work.
Social media accounts... Don't link them to your profile on here.

Under my "unique" name there are three or four others with the same name on a 30 mile radius. So just knowing your name won't find you on social media unless you have put up far too much information.

As for
- dick pix
- racist slurs
- social media accounts with dick pix and racist slurs
I don't have any of those. If you do then that is your problem don't do it..
OTOH if you do find users with those then better to know.

BTW a lot of employers look on social media to check people when interviewing prospective staff.

As a child you should not be on social media.
If you want to be anonymous then don't go on social media.
In a professional forum you should he identifiable.

Incidentally the Russians would not need real names for the targeting you suggest.

Regards
Chris

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:53 pm
by Jim Simon
I take the opposite view.

I consider the Freedom to Communicate to be a basic Human Right. But with all rights come certain responsibilities. In this case, to "sign" all one's communications so everyone knows who's talking.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:15 pm
by mdegans
jamedia wrote:BTW a lot of employers look on social media to check people when interviewing prospective staff.


Sure, and 20 years ago that would be seen, rightly, as an unacceptable invasion of privacy. Like the wrong music, the wrong movies, the wrong political pages? Then don't get hired. It's no longer enough to pass a criminal background check and be able to do the job. Now you need to pass an ideological one as well and this is aided by real name policies. You need to think the right way or not be employed. You defend this.

Besides you're ignoring the security issues. So maybe the employee doesn't report his social media accounts but is outed by a site like this. Maybe I'm a black hat hacker and I know you work for a company I'm targeting. Maybe thanks in part to the real name policy I can now blackmail you into breaching your corporate network.

Even accidentally, you could be leaking a lot more information than you think you are. Log files routinely posted on the forum are full of system information like user names, paths, program versions, environment variables, all of which would aid in a targeted attack where somebody can tie all this back to your real name and employer.

It's worth noting that some more security conscious employers will forbid use of social media partially for these reasons. All it's good for is stalking people. If you're a Facebook, or a facebook customer, like Cambridge Analytica, that's great. If you're a Facebook user, it's not so great.

If you want to be anonymous then don't go on social media.


Well, i'm not on social media. Twitter and Facebook are garbage fires. Being outed on here wasn't my choice either. My real name was added after the fact by the forum admins without my permission. They apparently got it from my product registration data (serves me right for registering). Ny name isn't a huge secret on it's own, but I do have stalkers and I am a target. Because my real name is posted here and will show up on a web search, I have to be even more careful about what I post. I would never post a log here, for example.

In a professional forum you should he identifiable.


Not everybody here is a professional video editor. I bought Resolve Studio to edit vacation footage. I have a tech/security background. I think it should be a choice as some people have good reason not to post under their real names. You're argument is basically that everybody should share everything because... really what has anybody got to hide. You really want to live in a society where nobody has any secrets? Secrets aren't just to hide the shameful. They're also to keep the vulnerable safe from persecution. They protect random people from hackers. This you ignore. Here's just one real world example (a cult trying to unmask a critic):

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/05/r ... d-fair-use

Incidentally the Russians would not need real names for the targeting you suggest.


No, but it certainly can help, especially when you can cross reference those with the voter rolls. Why do you think they hacked those as well? I don't know what the current policy is but Facebook used to let you target a list of user ids, which you can easily get from real names and geographic data.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:22 pm
by mdegans
Jim Simon wrote:I take the opposite view.

I consider the Freedom to Communicate to be a basic Human Right. But with all rights come certain responsibilities. In this case, to "sign" all one's communications so everyone knows who's talking.

That's not "responsibility", it's an artificial obligation you are imposing so you can retaliate on those whose views you don't agree with (or just for sh**s). FWIW nobody has a "right" to post on a privately owned forum, and the admins here can make the rules they choose. The First Amendment only prohibibits the government from censorship. That doesn't mean the rules are a good idea. If forum posters misbehave, then ban them. It's unnecessary to force people to post under their real names to maintain forum decorum. It only serves to reduce safety.

That being said, if you are talking about society at large, the EFF, and the US Supreme Court takes and opposite view on anonymous speech:

https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:20 pm
by Jim Simon
mdegans wrote:You need to think the right way or not be employed.


Not sure I would want to work for a company that thinks like that.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:22 pm
by Jim Simon
mdegans wrote:That's not "responsibility", it's an artificial obligation you are imposing so you can retaliate on those whose views you don't agree with


Damn, you a cynical bloke, ain't ya.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:22 pm
by Jim Simon
mdegans wrote:the US Supreme Court takes and opposite view on anonymous speech


And I think that's a problem.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:39 pm
by Dan Sherman
mdegans wrote:I'm not thrilled my name was linked to this account without my consent either, especially since the information was only given when I registered the program. That was some BS there.


Actually you gave consent, but like many others you probably didn't take the time to read the forum TOS.

Directly from the TOS.
You agree to use your real name as your user name when registering, including your location and job title if applicable. We believe people who post under their own name will be more respectful of others when posting as opposed to posting anonymously.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:50 pm
by mdegans
Jim Simon wrote:
mdegans wrote:That's not "responsibility", it's an artificial obligation you are imposing so you can retaliate on those whose views you don't agree with

Damn, you a cynical bloke, ain't ya.

And you're naive if you think people who hire don't judge. People are not machines. They have prejudices. Anonymity protects people.
Jim Simon wrote:
mdegans wrote:the US Supreme Court takes and opposite view on anonymous speech

And I think that's a problem.

Yes. Clearly we need to throw the entire of the first amendment under the bus because a few people are rude on the internet -- because banning those who cause trouble just isn't feasible. It's not like users of Blackmagic products don't regiser using unique identifiers anyway. Game console manufacturers manage to ban those who cause trouble by their serial numbers without requiring real names. So could Blackmagic. Again, the real name policy only serves to make targets out of those who post here.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:53 pm
by mdegans
Dan Sherman wrote:Actually you gave consent, but like many others you probably didn't take the time to read the forum TOS.

Directly from the TOS.


Yes, yes, and my eternal soul and first born son. All of it totally enforceable. Actually, it depends. Let's be real. Blackmagic wants the data for marketing purposes, not to maintain forum decorum, and it comes at the expense of customer safety.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:57 pm
by mdegans
Jim Simon wrote:
mdegans wrote:You need to think the right way or not be employed.


Not sure I would want to work for a company that thinks like that.

Not everybody has a choice. A blue voter in a red state might be judged for liking left leaning pages. The same the other way around. Maybe you're a member of an unpopular religious group. It's the divisive world we live in created in large part by social media. It's the end result of optimizing for engagement at any cost. People end up in bubbles crafted by a recommendation algorithm where they think anybody outside is evil. Facebook is the modern day two minutes of hate app. People are addicted to outrage. Hating our neighbor is our fix now, and real name policies are just asking for trouble.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:10 pm
by Dan Sherman
mdegans wrote:
Dan Sherman wrote:Actually you gave consent, but like many others you probably didn't take the time to read the forum TOS.

Directly from the TOS.


Yes, yes, and my eternal soul and first born son. All of it totally enforceable. Actually, it depends. Let's be real. Blackmagic wants the data for marketing purposes, not to maintain forum decorum, and it comes at the expense of customer safety.



If you don't like the TOS, then don't participate in the forum. The moderators will remove posts and users, they have done it before.

And by all means take BM to court if it makes you feel better........

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:21 pm
by mdegans
Dan Sherman wrote:
mdegans wrote:
Dan Sherman wrote:Actually you gave consent, but like many others you probably didn't take the time to read the forum TOS.

Directly from the TOS.


Yes, yes, and my eternal soul and first born son. All of it totally enforceable. Actually, it depends. Let's be real. Blackmagic wants the data for marketing purposes, not to maintain forum decorum, and it comes at the expense of customer safety.

If you don't like the TOS, then don't participate in the forum.

I don't like the TOS but still wish to participate. Were it an absolute deal breaker I would simply request my posts by deleted and leave, but instead, I will simply post less. My comments are out of concern for poster safety and nothign more. Blackmagic can certainly do what they want on their own forum and have done nothing actionable, however, that doesn't make the policy a good one.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:36 am
by Byron Dickens
Don't put questionable stuff up on the internet in the first place and you won't ever have to worry about someone turning it up.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:16 pm
by mdegans
Byron Dickens wrote:Don't put questionable stuff up on the internet in the first place and you won't ever have to worry about someone turning it up.

Perhaps my initial examples of comprimising information were not great. It's not just those with "questionable stuff" that have to worry.

Do you post logs? Then you could inadvertantly post a lot more than you intend to and that completely innocuous information, combined with your real name (especially if distinctive), could be used to compromise you and/or your workplace. Then you could get fired, so yeah, you have to worry.

I love people who say "if you have nothing to hide than you have nothing to worry about". Usually they just want to shred everybody's privacy.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:34 pm
by Dan Sherman
mdegans wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:Don't put questionable stuff up on the internet in the first place and you won't ever have to worry about someone turning it up.

Perhaps my initial examples of comprimising information were not great. It's not just those with "questionable stuff" that have to worry.

Do you post logs? Then you could inadvertantly post a lot more than you intend to and that completely innocuous information, combined with your real name (especially if distinctive), could be used to compromise you and/or your workplace. Then you could get fired, so yeah, you have to worry.

I love people who say "if you have nothing to hide than you have nothing to worry about". Usually they just want to shred everybody's privacy.


Then don't post logs, I've had direct interaction with several of the developers over the years and I've always just sent my logs directly to them.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:19 pm
by Byron Dickens
If you're on the internet - which you apparently are - there's already way more information about you floating around than anyone here is gonna get.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:09 pm
by Jim Simon
mdegans wrote:And you're naive if you think people who hire don't judge.


I know the people I work for and with. This just isn't their mentality.

They're not Leftists.

I feel bad for you if those are the kind of people you associate with. It's no way to live.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:05 pm
by Dan Sherman
Jim Simon wrote:
mdegans wrote:And you're naive if you think people who hire don't judge.


I know the people I work for and with. This just isn't their mentality.

They're not Leftists.

I feel bad for you if those are the kind of people you associate with. It's no way to live.


lots of companies do this and it has nothing to do with their political affiliations.

It happens to everyone from low-level employees all the way up to executives. You can Google and see the names of many executives that have been fired for it. not to mention actors and other celebrities who have had to deal with backlash for things they've said.

Personally I have absolutely no problem with it. if someone's going to publicly make racist, sexist, or other hate bassed comments they probably should be fired.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:54 pm
by mdegans
Jim Simon wrote:This just isn't their mentality.
...
They're not Leftists.

This is pretty much what I was talking about. Thanks for proving my point.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:57 pm
by mdegans
Byron Dickens wrote:If you're on the internet - which you apparently are - there's already way more information about you floating around than anyone here is gonna get.

Not if your parents taught you to be paranoid safe by not posting personally identifiable information, like, say, your full name. It was good advice in the 90s and it's still good advice. If I had kids I would block social media at the gateway.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:04 pm
by Dan Sherman
mdegans wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:If you're on the internet - which you apparently are - there's already way more information about you floating around than anyone here is gonna get.

Not if your parents taught you to be paranoid safe by not posting personally identifiable information, like, say, your full name. It was good advice in the 90s and it's still good advice. If I had kids I would block social media at the gateway.


as a software developer who specializes in server and web stuff, I think you missed his point or it's over your head.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:04 pm
by mdegans
Dan Sherman wrote:they probably should be fired.

The problem is the list of offenses that you can be fired for is increasingly large and subjective. It also changes over time so something you wrote when you were 17 and stupid can get you fired in your 30s. You really think that's the way the world should work? Think "leftists" are the problem? Think again, because the outrage of the day is apolitical. Think about all the dumb things you wrote when you were in your teens, and if you can't do that, think about the kinds of things your kids are probably writing under their real names.

And again, I'm not even talking about racist, sexist stuff or dick pix. As i pointed out, even logs can be a danger. If someobdy has your real name they can find out wher you work and if they have logs you have posted from there, that somebody can then know what os you're using, what software you have installed, all sorts of useful, potentially dangerous information.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 pm
by mdegans
Dan Sherman wrote:
mdegans wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:If you're on the internet - which you apparently are - there's already way more information about you floating around than anyone here is gonna get.

Not if your parents taught you to be paranoid safe by not posting personally identifiable information, like, say, your full name. It was good advice in the 90s and it's still good advice. If I had kids I would block social media at the gateway.
as a software developer who specializes in server and web stuff, I think you missed his point or it's over your head.
And i'm just a dumb *nix geek who does embedded development. Are we done comparing... occupations? I won't post the link here, but based on that comment I was able to narrow you down to two linkedin profiles. That's the sort of thing that would be more difficult if you didn't post your real name here. It's not safe, not because of anything anybody writes is particularly incriminating, but because there are people out there who will f**k your s**t up just becuase they can.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:23 pm
by Dan Sherman
mdegans wrote: Think about all the dumb things you wrote when you were in your teens, and if you can't do that, think about the kinds of things your kids are probably writing under their real names.


I guess you and I were raised differently, becauseI learned at a very early age if you were going to say things that would be considered potentially unacceptable then you had better say them in confidence.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:35 pm
by mdegans
Dan Sherman wrote:
mdegans wrote: Think about all the dumb things you wrote when you were in your teens, and if you can't do that, think about the kinds of things your kids are probably writing under their real names.

I guess you and I were raised differently, becauseI learned at a very early age if you were going to say things that would be considered potentially unacceptable then you had better say them in confidence.

You're shifting the goalposts. It's not just the socially "unacceptable" outrage du jour that can make you subject to retaliation. I think i've made that clear multiple times. People are crazy, yo, and putting your real name attached to all sorts of techincal information useful to attackers is just not a good idea, less for the reasons I am explicitly iterating and more for the reasons I can't think of.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:41 pm
by Dan Sherman
mdegans wrote:And i'm just a dumb *nix geek who does embedded development. Are we done comparing... occupations? I won't post the link here, but based on that comment I was able to narrow you down to two linkedin profiles. That's the sort of thing that would be more difficult if you didn't post your real name here. It's not safe, not because of anything anybody writes is particularly incriminating, but because there are people out there who will f**k your s**t up just becuase they can.


You assumed you found me, and you assume I'm on LinkedIn. You don't know if I'm a junior or a 3rd or a 4th etc. You don't know if I posted my full name, for example lots of people go by a nickname for their first name. maybe my mother kept her last name and therefore my last name is hyphenated and I only chose to use one of the last names. Etc etc etc

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:53 pm
by mdegans
Dan Sherman wrote:You assumed you found me, and you assume I'm on LinkedIn. You don't know if I'm a junior or a 3rd or a 4th etc. You don't know if I posted my full name, for example lots of people go by a nickname for their first name. maybe my mother kept her last name and therefore my last name is hyphenated and I only chose to use one of the last names. Etc etc etc

It's confirmable with enough work. I just don't care enough and I'm pretty sure you would ask Blackmagic to ban me (if you haven't already) if I got it right. No, we'll leave that to an actual attacker who won't bother to post here but will be very grateful for the real name policy.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:56 pm
by Byron Dickens
If you have an actual, reasonable fear that someone, somewhere, somehow, is digging up information on you and is going to use it to find you and come "f**k your s**t up," you've got a lot more to worry about than using your real name on a forum somewhere. You really need to be getting the rest of your life in order and beefing up your security measures.

Otherwise, it's just close kin to paranoia.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:02 pm
by Byron Dickens
mdegans wrote:
Yes, yes, and my eternal soul and first born son. All of it totally enforceable. Actually, it depends. Let's be real. Blackmagic wants the data for marketing purposes, not to maintain forum decorum, and it comes at the expense of customer safety.



I call BS. I have gotten a grand total of one marketing email from BMD.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:12 pm
by mdegans
Byron Dickens wrote:If you have an actual, reasonable fear that someone, somewhere, somehow, is digging up information on you and is going to use it to find you and come "f**k your s**t up," you've got a lot more to worry about than using your real name on a forum somewhere. You really need to be getting the rest of your life in order and beefing up your security measures.

Otherwise, it's just close kin to paranoia.

You snipped off the part where I said "just becuase they can". Here's an example from this morning... but if I know that you work at a production company that makes an even better incentive to infect you with ransomware besides "doin it for the lulz".

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:17 pm
by mdegans
Byron Dickens wrote:
mdegans wrote:
Yes, yes, and my eternal soul and first born son. All of it totally enforceable. Actually, it depends. Let's be real. Blackmagic wants the data for marketing purposes, not to maintain forum decorum, and it comes at the expense of customer safety.

I call BS. I have gotten a grand total of one marketing email from BMD.

My mistake. Hanlon's razor. It could just be stupidity. 5 minutes on Facebook should be enough proof that real names do nothing to preserve civility.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:41 pm
by Byron Dickens
mdegans wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:If you have an actual, reasonable fear that someone, somewhere, somehow, is digging up information on you and is going to use it to find you and come "f**k your s**t up," you've got a lot more to worry about than using your real name on a forum somewhere. You really need to be getting the rest of your life in order and beefing up your security measures.

Otherwise, it's just close kin to paranoia.

You snipped off the part where I said "just becuase they can". Here's an example from this morning... but if I know that you work at a production company that makes an even better incentive to infect you with ransomware besides "doin it for the lulz".


The "example" you give is completely irrelevant. But it does illustrate a good point. Don't trust anything associated with Amazon, Inc. for security and certainly don't put it on a poorly secured network.

Re: The Real Name policy is unsafe

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:11 am
by mdegans
Byron Dickens wrote:
mdegans wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:If you have an actual, reasonable fear that someone, somewhere, somehow, is digging up information on you and is going to use it to find you and come "f**k your s**t up," you've got a lot more to worry about than using your real name on a forum somewhere. You really need to be getting the rest of your life in order and beefing up your security measures.

Otherwise, it's just close kin to paranoia.

You snipped off the part where I said "just becuase they can". Here's an example from this morning... but if I know that you work at a production company that makes an even better incentive to infect you with ransomware besides "doin it for the lulz".
The "example" you give is completely irrelevant. But it does illustrate a good point. Don't trust anything associated with Amazon, Inc. for security and certainly don't put it on a poorly secured network.

We agree on the cameras, but it's not irrelevant. People do things on the internet to get at other people just because they can. If you add a financial incentive that makes you even more of a target. If you publicly identify yourself under your own name, it makes it easier to dig up information, social media profiles, and so on.

Then somebody can friend you or send you a message you click on and oops, you're infected with malware. Without a real name it's not impossible to find out who somebody is, but it takes more work. Is your name less common? Are you a minority? It's even worse.

People in today's society have been driven to madness by social media and there is a lot of online crime, as the article shows. I understand the desire to want to maintain civility, but a real name policy is not necessary towards that end and only functions to make the vulnerable even more vulnerable.