Honesty and quality controll

"I get cameras, many of which are prototypes and incomplete. Hardly a "deal" is it ?"

Well by the looks of it, that is what the general public are getting as well!

+1

.

I can't help but point out the irony in asking for "quality controll" while misspelling the word "control."

This community would be much better served if the discourse was more professional. Threads like these only encourage Blackmagic to shut down communication channels and discourage people like John Brawley from being openly involved in the development of these cameras.

I think we all appreciate and benefit from both Mr. Brawley's posts and Blackmagic's official communications.

I'd also be wary of behaving in such a way as I certainly wouldn't want to discourage Blackmagic from attempting to produce more low cost cinema cameras.

Looking into alternatives you will soon discover Blackmagic is filling a large void - digital cinema camera functionality below $10,000 (actually below $5,000).

While it would be nice if they could be more forthright in accurate shipping dates (I myself have gotten frustrated) it is also important to remember what Blackmagic is attempting to accomplish.

If it were easy we'd all have a slew of options ranging from Canon to Red to Arri. But it's not and the only company attempting to produce a camera that offers the kind of functionality we are all here for at a price below $5000 is Blackmagic.

So voice your displeasure, but be professional about it and have a little humility.

This is a fair comment!

Meanwhile A well known UK distributer has only had two pocket cameras before the orb issue and don't know if when and how many they may get in the future. So as far as blighty goes NOT shipping.
Meanwhile the blackmarket price on ebay continues to go up with vendors not realising they wont have their cams for long as they sail into returning them to fix the orbs.

As the saga continues the cliffhanger awaits as to will the 4k's get released and if so will it be just for chosen beta testers who then find other problems.

betting shops up and down the land are now taking odds on Christmas deliveries and will Santa's sleigh run out of power?

To be cont'd

Calm down, dude.

I'm sick of waiting, so I canceled 4k pre-order today.

I think BMCC is a good deal now, so I bought bmcc today.

That's it! Business is business. No need to be emotional.

If you can't figure out how to shoot on a BMCC in a week then maybe using cameras isn't your calling!

Yeah, I've sucked for 20 + years now. lol
If I'm using a new camera on a paying gig, I'm doing tests with lighting(Kinos/LEDs/HMIs)/exterior (day/night) if necessary and lens selection, not to mention making sure the SSDs are holding up to an hour here or there. All of which is kind of difficult if I am prepping for a job or two at the same time!
ANY professional that I know would do the same thing. They do NOT use client's $ as a setting for testing out their new toy.

If you can't figure out how to shoot on a BMCC in a week then maybe using cameras isn't your calling!

Yeah, I've sucked for 20 + years now. lol
If I'm using a new camera on a paying gig, I'm doing tests with lighting(Kinos/LEDs/HMIs)/exterior (day/night) if necessary and lens selection, not to mention making sure the SSDs are holding up to an hour here or there. All of which is kind of difficult if I am prepping for a job or two at the same time!
ANY professional that I know would do the same thing. They do NOT use client's $ as a setting for testing out their new toy.

Just checked out your work. 20 years+ you say? well well!

Just checked out your work. 20 years+ you say? well well!

This is where you're going? Really? I'm sure you scoured the internet and found everything that I have done. You can't have a grown up discussion or refute anything I say, so you TRY the snark card? sad.

This thread and you aren't worth it. Good luck.

This community would be much better served if the discourse was more professional. Threads like these only encourage Blackmagic to shut down communication channels and discourage people like John Brawley from being openly involved in the development of these cameras.

Amen to that. During the White Orb craziness, Joshua Heller put himself out there and responded on these forums and immediately found every word he said analyzed and questioned as if it was testimony in a war crimes trial. It's impossible for blackmagic to have a casual conversation with us without us eating them up like a pack of hyenas. No wonder Kristian Lam leaves posts like "ok" and "I'll look into it."

Meanwhile, for saying that the camera would be ready in July and then only shipping out a few at the very end, that didn't reach customers hands until the first week of August, they are liars and because they had to delay one feature to get it out that quickly, they are criminals.

I believe that more transparency would help with this, but I get why they're reluctant to jump into that pool when they get he responses to it they do.

I cancelled my order. If you want to communicate to BMD that they need to be open and honest and public then take it to other forums to discuss. Engadget, Yahoo News, Gizmodo, TechCrunch, take it other places than a controlled environment where there is press, where someone can get a reply out of BMD, because right now our complaints and dissatisfaction arn't doing it.



I own a few reds, I just purchased it because I wanted to see what BMD was doing, but I wont be strung along for this ride. BMD spend a day and communicate, or as you are seeing be tarnished and lose brand reliability.

Just checked out your work. 20 years+ you say? well well!

This is where you're going? Really? I'm sure you scoured the internet and found everything that I have done. You can't have a grown up discussion or refute anything I say, so you TRY the snark card? sad.

This thread and you aren't worth it. Good luck.

Hey mate, you are the one telling everyone how unprofessional I am, if your end product doesn't make the cut in 20 years then it doesn't matter how professional you tell people you are!

Calm down, dude.

I'm sick of waiting, so I canceled 4k pre-order today.

I think BMCC is a good deal now, so I bought bmcc today.

That's it! Business is business. No need to be emotional.

I'm not being emotional I was only mocking THE "there isn't a problem brigade." I have no problem waiting for a camera but I also recognise there are issues that need addressing that just aren't and there are many who seem to be apologists for the company that is actually taking down any serious message to BMD to get their act together as far as customer relations go.

I find young Mr. Richard Oakes' anger to be refreshing and to the point. The servicing intentions and capacities of the Company are ambiguous and uncertain at best, as many of these forum threads very clearly reveal. Not to mention the dog's breakfast of delays, feature withdrawals and unresolved issues to be endured before the camera can actually arrive and then break down. I'm Not Saying we deserve any better. But as for someone with Dan Abrams' standards -- "no excuses", I assume -- and from what I read in the forum and elsewhere, one back-up may not be nearly enough.

For the record I want this to work as much as any of you.

Thank you!

I agree also. Seems to be way to much desperaye defense of this company by people who seem to think Blackmagic will toss them a cookie. Yes they are relatively new to camera making. But you cant use the excuse "its my first day" forever.

[Tony Rivera]

The frustration and posts addressed to the company (within reason) are all fine and dandy but this is getting out of hand with the incessant bashing of others. Consider this a general warning to all that this is unacceptable by any means on our forums.

I find young Mr. Richard Oakes' anger to be refreshing and to the point. The servicing intentions and capacities of the Company are ambiguous and uncertain at best, as many of these forum threads very clearly reveal. Not to mention the dog's breakfast of delays, feature withdrawals and unresolved issues to be endured before the camera can actually arrive and then break down. I'm Not Saying we deserve any better. But as for someone with Dan Abrams' standards -- "no excuses", I assume -- and from what I read in the forum and elsewhere, one back-up may not be nearly enough.

For the record I want this to work as much as any of you.

Thank you!

I agree also. Seems to be way to much desperaye defense of this company by people who seem to think Blackmagic will toss them a cookie. Yes they are relatively new to camera making. But you cant use the excuse "its my first day" forever.

+1

Richard, why are you still here? Like, if you are unhappy with the camera and the business practices of the company that sells it, why are you here?

Do you believe your public outbursts will change the way Grant Petty runs his company? Do you think that the couple of dozen posters on this site, who at one point or another have lowered themselves to childish name calling and personal attacks...do you think that group of people hold any respect among the community at large or the decision makers at BMD? Why would they?

When you frustrated people resort to attacking people like jb and frank, who have never attacked or disrespected any of you, you lower your credibility. Most of these posts are filled with exaggeration, assumptions or simply false information. You end up looking like a 5 yr old stomping his feet cause he's not getting the cookie he wants. It's not helping your cause.

If you really want to initiate change, you're going about it the wrong way.

If you're really just so annoyed you want to scream about it, please take your soapbox and move it to the Off Topic forum, where it belong.

Serisouly Tony, why are these posts in the cinematography forum? They have nothing to do with cinematography. They should be moved to off topic.

[Tony Rivera]

Serisouly Tony, why are these posts in the cinematography forum? They have nothing to do with cinematography. They should be moved to off topic.

That's where it's being moved to.

When are BMD going to stop lying and also release satisfactory products?

Every time you hear a release date you know, you can see by the body language on these BMD representatives faces that they are lying through their teeth! Why not just be honest and say look, we have got this new camera coming out, it will be acailable by Christmas. Rather than 'hey guys, we have an idea for a camera, it will be shipping tomorrow? The next day! Deffo next week! Yep it's all cool it will be with you in 3 weeks. It is pathetic behaviour for a company that considers themselves professional! The truth is they are a bunch of amaters that are burrird way too deep in their own BS!

They are not lying to you. You would only have a beef if they took your money and failed to deliver, which is not what is happening.

They have projected a delivery date, but stuff like that is always fluid for any company. Big companies such as Sony etc have established product lines and established manufacturer streams. Their products are evolutions over previous products, and all that combined means that they can provide good estimates of shipping dates because they have done it all before. That is not the case with smaller companies or companies just starting product lines. There are all sorts of things that can go wrong which are not accounted for, and mostly those sorts of things cause delays. Although you might personally think otherwise, these delays are no doubt far more troubling to BM than they are to you. They are not out to do you over.

Just be patient. If you can't, and must have a camera right now for whatever purpose, there are plenty of other manufacturers with plenty of other products that you can use.