Don't Ask....we won't tell!

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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 3:21 am

A few weeks back I started a thread asking for someone from BM tech dept. to be honest and let us know when, or EVEN IF there will ever be firmware updates to address the shortcomings of the 1st Gen BMCC.

After weeks of no answers given, my thread was moved to "OFF TOPIC" section.

So apparently merely asking for things that were promised and not delivered is not worthy of posting where future buyers might see it. Interesting.

Here is the link to the thread, better read it while you can....no telling where it will end up next.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13190
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sean mclennan

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:05 am

It's NOT a cinematography thread. Period. It belongs in Off Topic. That's where you should have posted it to begin with.

Everyone wants to post b*tches and complaints in this forum because it gets the most traffic, but it's not where it's supposed to go.

Maybe you should CALL BM...maybe you should EMAIL BM...and make your demands of BM directly to them, rather that make the rest of us listen to it. Just a thought.
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StephenH

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:12 am

I'm sure that Blackmagic Design is working on a number of things relating too both released cameras and we just need to have patience, and wait!!! :)
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Dave Perry

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:30 am

Posting that kind of question to a forum is not the most effective way to get the information you are looking for. Your best bet would be to contact BMD rather than their customers and onlookers in the forum.
BMUM 4.6k PL, BMPC 4K, BMPCC
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 2:12 pm

With all due respect to both of you:

1. Cinematography is the category where we ask things CAMERA related. These questions have been asked for months now with NO ANSWERS GIVEN as to EVEN IF there will be answers in the future. IF and WHEN BM sees fit to break that category up into separate items like "how to shoot" and "cinema camera questions" then I will post accordingly.

2. I have called BM numerous times regarding the rec709 issue. I have been PM'd by support on the issue. I have had a long-standing OPEN case regarding the issue. Still, after over 3 months of it being unresolved, I have yet to be given an answer as to IF it will be fixed. I don't need when, just a "we are aware of it, we are working to resolve it, and we will be able to make it right." that is all I ask.

I apologize to anyone who thinks I am wasting their time by being one of hundreds who have these questions on this forum. Again, I don't need a hard date as to when these things will be fixed....I WOULD like an answer if they are possible or not (hardware limitations??) and IF BM will continue working on them (now that they have 2 other cameras currently being developed.
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bhook

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 2:34 pm

This is a product forum specific to BMD cameras...don't believe it, just post something about another company's new cinema camera. ;)

I think it's unfortunate that BMD named the forum "Cinematography" instead of "Cameras" because all this net nannying is pretty tiresome for the less pedantic. If you want to learn about cinematography, this isn't the forum for you. If you want to learn about BMD cameras (oddly excluding shipping and firmware information), then this is the place.
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Manu Gil

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 2:55 pm

Buy a product based on specifications working in the present, not the future specifications. ;)
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bhook

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 3:04 pm

Manu Gil wrote:Buy a product based on specifications working in the present, not the future specifications. ;)


How's that compressed raw looking on your pocket cam? ;)
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Manu Gil

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 3:39 pm

mhood wrote:
Manu Gil wrote:Buy a product based on specifications working in the present, not the future specifications. ;)


How's that compressed raw looking on your pocket cam? ;)

Hi Marc. If I want to record raw. I buy or rent a camera to record raw. :)
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sean mclennan

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 3:58 pm

1. Cinematography is the category where we ask things CAMERA related.


NO, it's the category where you ask cinematography related questions. Such as HOW to use the camera, HOW to workaround limitations or issues. Ask advice on camera settings, etc.

This particular thread, (don't ask, we won't tell) has nothing to accomplish other than you displaying your frustration. I get it, but you're just frustrating others now. The only people who like these threads are the ones who are hating on BM. They just want to see more gasoline poured on the fire. Most of us would rather work on solutions and workaround we can all use to get work done now. Which is the point of the Cinematography forum.

I agree there are many things BM needs to change/fix, but this isn't the place for it and contrary to a handful of regular offenders, I suspect most forum users are breathing a sigh of relief at the "net nannying".
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:08 pm

Wrong. Please read their own descriptions of their forums:

Cinematography
The place for questions about shooting with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera.

Off-Topic
Got something to discuss that's not about Blackmagic products? Then check out the Off-Topic forum!

This is CLEARLY about BM cameras....Off Topic is CLEARLY not.

If it bothers you to read these, then either skip over them or stop reading the threads all together.

FACT REMAINS....as long as BM continues to NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS relating to their camera, there will be customers HAVING TO ASK QUESTIONS. Sweeping those unanswered questions to off topic forums clearly displays a lack of willingness to be forthright about their products.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:11 pm

BTW...I am choosing to post these questions in these forums because emails, phone calls and the like go unresolved, with no one willing to offer any substantial information regarding the query.
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David

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:26 pm

shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:Wrong. Please read their own descriptions of their forums:

Cinematography
The place for questions about shooting with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera.



I can't think of a more perfect quote to defeat your own argument. Do you really read that quote as "The place to complain about NOT getting the service you want"?
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bhook

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Manu Gil wrote:
mhood wrote:
Manu Gil wrote:Buy a product based on specifications working in the present, not the future specifications. ;)


How's that compressed raw looking on your pocket cam? ;)

Hi Marc. If I want to record raw. I buy or rent a camera to record raw. :)


...as long as you don't base your decision on published specifications. :lol:
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bhook

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 4:49 pm

David wrote:
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:Wrong. Please read their own descriptions of their forums:

Cinematography
The place for questions about shooting with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera.



I can't think of a more perfect quote to defeat your own argument. Do you really read that quote as "The place to complain about NOT getting the service you want"?


Is the obtuseness intentional? If it is a question (or complaint) about the service regarding a BMD camera, then what other forum could possibly be appropriate?
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David

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 6:34 pm

Maybe I have a problem with English being my first language but I would think to be "obtuse" would be to not understand the difference between "shooting with a camera" and "complain about not having a camera." But I do understand. And so do you, Marc. You know perfectly well what the rules of the forum are and I'm supremely confident you have an understanding of the "your house, your rules" policy. You know how this company deals with stuff but for some reason you choose to disregard it and stir the pot at every possible opportunity. You can't wait for someone to have a complaint or a problem with the company so you give it a little dig between the ribs and chime in with your passive aggressive snide remarks.

I consider it psychopathic behavior. And I would not think of you as psychotic but I do see an online personality who is only on this forum to insult others (albeit in extremely well veiled tones) and flame bad feelings for this company.

But I apologize if I'm just not "getting" you. :D

See, I can do passive aggression as well.
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bhook

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostWed Oct 09, 2013 7:28 pm

David wrote:I consider it psychopathic behavior.


See...now we're off topic and in the correct forum. :lol:

Man, I am trying to decide whether or not to buy a BMD camera. I'm also trying to decide whether or not to buy another BMD product (Intensity Shuttle). I am here to see the negative AND the positive. I imagine there are others like me.

And yes, I have grown more and more disappointed in the way BMD handles new product rollouts, updates, customer relations and marketing in general. You'll be happy to know my mind is almost made up.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostFri Oct 11, 2013 10:48 am

david...to awnser your question...no. If you were to read my original thread, you would see that I began it all with ASKING about future functionality upgrades. No different from the many questions regarding the pocket cam and it's development. CLEARLY a CAMERA RELATED ISSUE as described by the forum category. Questions about shooting with the BMCC to me would be about making it work, and as it lacks promised specs that still do not allow it to work as described, I see it a perfectly reasonable to ask them in this category. Others have been doing this since the camera shipped.....look through the older posts. Numerous posts of "things we want" and "how do I make this work like it was promised" abound.

But my question was not just a list of what i wanted, or a dis on the camera (originally)...my post was to ask IF those requests could ever be met. Tell us BM, if there are hardware limitations that will limit these needs? EG- Do I need to drop more money on an expensive monitor (replacing my $1800.00 smallHD) to get audio meters or ARE YOU GUYS ABLE DELIVER THEM TO US?....They promised "Professional on-board Audio recording", but currently that quality is far below that, as evidenced by other posts on the subject.

Once I asked the question for BM to tell us the truth on the matter, and no one stepped in to do so, it became more of a complaint about how BM is treating its INVESTORS like me. I am a working professional who has bought into thier product to fill a niche in my work. I was not a hater....nor am I a fanboy like some of the people arguing I am posting in the wrong forum. This all started with a thread to ask IF they will ever be able to deliver these items. Now it is a complaint, because the lack of respect to me by ignoring the initial question posed has made it clear. To have an unresolved open ticket for 3 months now with NO RESPONSE ON IF THEY CAN OR WILL RESOLVE IT also speaks volume. I have had 2 responses on this issue...none of them said "we are trying to fix it"..only, "yeah, we are aware of it."

Sorry if I have upset the fanboys with my attempt to get some reasonable customer service from my camera company.
Last edited by shanepeters@bellsouth.net on Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostFri Oct 11, 2013 10:55 am

BTW....this forum moderator has insulted me AGAIN by moving this into the off-topic forum. Another attempt to HIDE the shortcomings of the product? I am going to keep posting this question for a response UNTIL I am banned from these forums. IF that happens, it will be the resounding confirmation of my assumptions about BM designs.

Please prove me wrong blackmagic.
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Mark Davies

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostSun Oct 13, 2013 10:54 am

Maybe I have a problem with English being my first language but I would think to be "obtuse" would be to not understand the difference between "shooting with a camera" and "complain about not having a camera."

Are you saying the cinematography forum is for those who shoot with a BMD camera and those without should post here?
1) Cinematography is about the art of film making and not a camera So the forum is wrongly named whatever way you look at it.
2)Before any cameras came out at all the Cinematography forum was being used So was not made for shooters only.
3)Cinematography forum became a meeting place for all and allowed as such by mods.


But I do understand. And so do you, Marc. You know perfectly well what the rules of the forum are and I'm supremely confident you have an understanding of the "your house, your rules" policy.


While it is BMD's forum It has been set up to promote BMD and for information It is a two way street A FORUM is expected to be have a free and fair dialogue either way If BMD are at fault say for example with delays and not informing people why then they should address those issues. That is what a forum is for. Maybe you believe a forum is only positive about BMD and anything else censored? It could then no longer be called a forum. Maybe better for BMD to do away with the forum and instead just write an article?
You know how this company deals with stuff but for some reason you choose to disregard it and stir the pot at every possible opportunity. You can't wait for someone to have a complaint or a problem with the company so you give it a little dig between the ribs and chime in with your passive aggressive snide remarks.

That is your assessment of someone on this forum and therefore subjective.

I consider it psychopathic behavior. And I would not think of you as psychotic but I do see an online personality who is only on this forum to insult others (albeit in extremely well veiled tones) and flame bad feelings for this company.

I consider this to be flaming and inflammatory Especially calling someone psychotic who disagree with you.

But I apologize if I'm just not "getting" you. :D

Have you got your camera?
See, I can do passive aggression as well.

I wouldn't say you are passively aggressive more obtuse, aggressive and insulting. At least marc has a sense of humour and a real reason to complain. You're complaint about his complaint to BMD is actually psychotic because you are taking up the companies position in favour of your own (Split personality) Also you don't recognise any wrong doing on BMD's part re a complete lack of information.
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David

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostMon Oct 14, 2013 2:53 am

Hey look! Marc's got groupies!

Calm down, Mark D. All I did was point out that a quote from the OP was not technically helping his argument. It may have been overtly pedantic but it was true nonetheless.

Any name calling was initiated by Marc's claim of "obtuseness" on my part. But he's a smart guy and is totally used to be called a "troll" by snotty "fan boy's" such as myself. And that's exactly what I was articulating.

And to quote Marc quoting Frank Zappa (as he is apt to do) "theres the crux of the biscuit"

I meant no offense to anybody having a problem with BMD. I would claim no right whatsoever in telling anybody how they should personally feel about anything. Honest.
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Mark Davies

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostMon Oct 14, 2013 10:05 am

David wrote:Hey look! Marc's got groupies!

Calm down, Mark D. All I did was point out that a quote from the OP was not technically helping his argument. It may have been overtly pedantic but it was true nonetheless.

Any name calling was initiated by Marc's claim of "obtuseness" on my part. But he's a smart guy and is totally used to be called a "troll" by snotty "fan boy's" such as myself. And that's exactly what I was articulating.

And to quote Marc quoting Frank Zappa (as he is apt to do) "theres the crux of the biscuit"

I meant no offense to anybody having a problem with BMD. I would claim no right whatsoever in telling anybody how they should personally feel about anything. Honest.

I would say since all threads that ask where the cameras are, have been moved to being off topic then Marcs argument is entirely appropriate. It is unbelievable that so many patient people are not given the courtesy of an update to ease the wait are now put into the obscurity of being off topic.
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bhook

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostTue Oct 15, 2013 12:43 am

Groupies!? Zappa!? What do you know of the apostrophe? In these many months of my involvement here on this forum, I have noticed a propensity on the part of the "fanboys", bullies and even the company itself to blame negativity on the customer.

There is also a stoic resolve to "do things the way they have always done them". No evolving allowed or even considered. Just once I'd like to see evidence that they have decided to turn and face the strain.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostTue Oct 15, 2013 2:39 am

It is disappointing enough that I posted a letter several weeks ago asking for a company rep to talk to us about the future life of the 2.5k camera and got nothing. TO add insult to injury, my thread was swept off cinematography and onto "off-topic". Now people are arguing about whether "off-topic" is the appropo place for this.

My hope was that a large number of the forum users would see this and jump in with me, requesting BM to address our questions. I did not intend to start a war with fanboys vs. unsatisfied investors.

Can we all keep this on target?

WHEN WILL BM TALK TO IT"S CUSTOMERS ABOUT THE PRODUCT???
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David

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Re: Don't Ask....we won't tell!

PostTue Oct 15, 2013 2:51 am

mhood wrote:Groupies!? Zappa!? What do you know of the apostrophe?


I once had the great (mis)fortune to spend three days with photographer Jim Marshall. He had some good Zappa stories.

Sorry, OP. I'll say no more now.
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