Blackmagic Forum

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone has a good solution for live event shading with cameras outputting an HDSDI signal. I have worked in TV for years so I know I can go buy a studio setup and have a CCU per camera but that's not an option right now. I am currently using 3 Sony PDW-800s via HDSDI. All the projects I have been working on have been posted so we color in the edit suite but I would like to minimize that or eliminate it completely. Also I'm looking to get into more live imag work so I would want to be able to paint the cameras.

As always thank you in advance.

You can use the Sony OCP's with some lengthening cables over XLR to remotely shade the camera's.
It can be a bit tricky since the PDW-F800 and the OCP assume they are close to each other..

The camera transmits power to the OCP. But I suppose if you take a couple of the RM-B150's, then use an UTP cable to transmit data, and resolder the plug at the RM-B150 end to take external power it should work.

Built a ******* wireless arduino thing to transfer CCU information for JVC750 cameras.
If you are hacky enough you can do it with the Sony protocol too, had a proof of concept working in a couple of hours.

consider this......
use Panasonic HPX 255, 370, 500, 600 ......
with Datavideo MCU-100

Thanks for all the solutions guys! I thought there would be none so I will be looking into all of this. If you have any more keep em coming.

Jehun Koa wrote:consider this......
use Panasonic HPX 255, 370, 500, 600 ......
with Datavideo MCU-100

This is actually really nice. Never heard of it before. Unfortunately I have a bunch of Panasonic AG-HMC80 cameras which aren't compatible with this. Anyone know of a similar CCU solution for these cameras?

Jehun Koa wrote:consider this......
use Panasonic HPX 255, 370, 500, 600 ......
with Datavideo MCU-100

That is exactly what I'm looking for but for Sony. This looks like a great setup. If need be I could switch rental houses and get equivilant pannys to work with this. Does anybody know of anything like this for Sony?

Great suggestion though Jehun!

Hi Roach,

We use 5 PDW700's ( or HDW750's) with our Sat Uplink truck to make a mini OB- we use a Sony CNU700 which is a 3u master unit, and a MSU700 control panel, and run down multi core audio cable terminated with the Hirose 8 pin connectors at both ends, or I have Hirose to XLR breakouts, and I can run down XLR cables.........it gives u the usual paint functions, shading, blacks, iris, and electronic colour balance. You can use the MSU750, 900, 950 etc, but the MSU700 is way cheaper!
We have 2 sets of CNU/MSU- our last set was bought used 6 months ago and cost us £800!!!!! (About $1300) in the UK.....
Only problem is running separate cables ( I need to find a way of sending it down fibre) and the fact it seems to only have a range of about 140m- although there's an Internet post where a guy has it working down 305m of cat5e network cable! Working on that just now.........soldering 8pin Hirose to Cat5e is a nightmare!!,!
There's one on Ebay - but you'll need a CNU700 as well.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MSU-700-Ma ... 3a86d23a31

Any questions, just ask.....hope that's some help.......

Cheers
Dave

Oh,
And the MSU let's you switch between control between up to six cameras- 12 if you get another board in the CNU- and it lights up when a camera is connected!! Very pretty!!! Ha ha

Cheers
Dave

This is probably not what you want but -

What's new in DaVinci Resolve 10

Resolve Live
• Grade Live incoming SDI video and save grading snapshots with metadata and stills

Jonas Bengtson wrote:Built a ******* wireless arduino thing to transfer CCU information for JVC750 cameras.

I want to do this for some time now.. But having difficulty finding out what protocol is used.... Anyone??

Dave Glennie wrote:Hi Roach,

We use 5 PDW700's ( or HDW750's) with our Sat Uplink truck to make a mini OB- we use a Sony CNU700 which is a 3u master unit, and a MSU700 control panel, and run down multi core audio cable terminated with the Hirose 8 pin connectors at both ends, or I have Hirose to XLR breakouts, and I can run down XLR cables.........it gives u the usual paint functions, shading, blacks, iris, and electronic colour balance. You can use the MSU750, 900, 950 etc, but the MSU700 is way cheaper!
We have 2 sets of CNU/MSU- our last set was bought used 6 months ago and cost us £800!!!!! (About $1300) in the UK.....
Only problem is running separate cables ( I need to find a way of sending it down fibre) and the fact it seems to only have a range of about 140m- although there's an Internet post where a guy has it working down 305m of cat5e network cable! Working on that just now.........soldering 8pin Hirose to Cat5e is a nightmare!!,!
There's one on Ebay - but you'll need a CNU700 as well.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MSU-700-Ma ... 3a86d23a31

Any questions, just ask.....hope that's some help.......

Cheers
Dave

Thanks for that info Dave. I'll look into that. If I can keep using the same cameras I'd love that. This hasn't become a must do project yet but I want to have some options open in case.

Dave Glennie wrote:Only problem is running separate cables ( I need to find a way of sending it down fibre) and the fact it seems to only have a range of about 140m- although there's an Internet post where a guy has it working down 305m of cat5e network cable! Working on that just now.........soldering 8pin Hirose to Cat5e is a nightmare!!,!

I'm using these: http://www.lynx-technik.com/en/products/yellobrik-products/LynxController/Product/LynxAction/show/LynxProduct/60/LynxCategory/3/

Dave Glennie wrote:Hi Roach,

We use 5 PDW700's ( or HDW750's) with our Sat Uplink truck to make a mini OB- we use a Sony CNU700 which is a 3u master unit, and a MSU700 control panel, and run down multi core audio cable terminated with the Hirose 8 pin connectors at both ends, or I have Hirose to XLR breakouts, and I can run down XLR cables.........it gives u the usual paint functions, shading, blacks, iris, and electronic colour balance. You can use the MSU750, 900, 950 etc, but the MSU700 is way cheaper!
We have 2 sets of CNU/MSU- our last set was bought used 6 months ago and cost us £800!!!!! (About $1300) in the UK.....
Only problem is running separate cables ( I need to find a way of sending it down fibre) and the fact it seems to only have a range of about 140m- although there's an Internet post where a guy has it working down 305m of cat5e network cable! Working on that just now.........soldering 8pin Hirose to Cat5e is a nightmare!!,!
There's one on Ebay - but you'll need a CNU700 as well.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MSU-700-Ma ... 3a86d23a31

Any questions, just ask.....hope that's some help.......

Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave. I'm very interested in the system you're running here. Did you have to install any new software on the MSU700 to get it to work with HD cameras. I know it was originally designed for BVW series cameras.

I have a 8 camera system running on 4 core Fibre, HD-SDI, comms and CCU/RCP control via the hirose connections. But I'm really keen to upgrade to an MSU type setup.

I dont know what your budget is like but recently i have used the following,

Sony F55 -> Sony CNA-1 -> Switch -> over UK network (i work for UK NREN) -> PoE Switch (Netgear GS110) -> RCP-1500

I was able to control it from 192 miles away whilst using IP55's as a video delivery method to get from camera location to my location.

mdwalleman wrote:

Dave Glennie wrote:Only problem is running separate cables ( I need to find a way of sending it down fibre) and the fact it seems to only have a range of about 140m- although there's an Internet post where a guy has it working down 305m of cat5e network cable! Working on that just now.........soldering 8pin Hirose to Cat5e is a nightmare!!,!

I'm using these: http://www.lynx-technik.com/en/products/yellobrik-products/LynxController/Product/LynxAction/show/LynxProduct/60/LynxCategory/3/

Could you tell me haw work this yellowbrik? I was buy other conwerter RS 244/fiber and conectioned to RMB150 and EX-3, they dosnt work.

mdwalleman wrote:

Dave Glennie wrote:Only problem is running separate cables ( I need to find a way of sending it down fibre) and the fact it seems to only have a range of about 140m- although there's an Internet post where a guy has it working down 305m of cat5e network cable! Working on that just now.........soldering 8pin Hirose to Cat5e is a nightmare!!,!

I'm using these: http://www.lynx-technik.com/en/products/yellobrik-products/LynxController/Product/LynxAction/show/LynxProduct/60/LynxCategory/3/

Hi Mark,
I know this is an old topic, but hopefully you can help.
We bought 2 sets of the Yellowbrik fibre converters- when we have them connected, the link is fine, the msu700 knows there is something connected, the camera recognises that the box is connected, but we have no actual communication between MSU and camera. TX and RX lights flash, but it almost looks like a data problem. I've checked the pin outs of the rj45 to. 8pin Hirose cables, but they seem to be correct too.

Can you be of any help with settings etc. I really need to get these working as they cost a heap of money, and we have a client who is basing a whole contract on camera control being active over a long fibre run.

Thanks
All the best
Dave

My goal has been finding an affordable and quality CCU/ MCU control of SONY EX 1, EX 3 (all xdcams with 8 pin port) CCU control. Many options here also apply to Panasonic CCU / MSU Control. I haven't chosen any yet. These seem to be the options at the time of my posting. The stock sony CCU for an ex series camera is a RM-B150 (discontinued - hence Ebay at $1-2K / each). RM-B170 $1500-$2K each, ie per camera.

I am trying to avoid paying over $3,000USD for a 4 camera solution. SONY's route would easily cost $8,000USD before cable for a 4 camera setup, and would be limited to 150 Meters distance.

According to several conversations with SONY reps the MSU-700 won't control a SONY ex series camera. If anyone has experience otherwise It would be great to hear about. There seems to be some promise in adapting to ethernet and extend the old highrose 8 pins through ethernet.

The options that I have found so far for CCU and or MCU control of sony ex 3 cameras are:

1)Datavideo MSU 100 / 200 (panasonic CCU control for up to 4 cameras)
and MSU100s/200S for control of up to four SONY cameras.
Rack mount or plastic rcp size MSU tabletop unit.
$2000 USD with 4 camera adapters - CU cable runs over ethernet

2)Bradley Engineering
Remote camera Panel 3 ( Joystick Iris/ MstrPed or Continuous knob) , and mini remote camera panel 3 (all knobs). UK made robust metal case and elegant minimal design. This looks better than an original Sony RCP which sell for $2k to $6k a piece.
Functional for four or more cameras and camera types at the same time! options to connect to remote pan heads - etc w lens controls. a real class act of an engineering systems company here!

"The controller can address up to 4 cameras, of different types (Sony, Ikegami, Panasonic, Hitachi, JVC, Bradley, etc.) "


$1750GBP for RCP3, $1100GBP for mini
wired connections over XLR cable at 650 GBP/ ea and wireless connections at 2100 GBP / ea

3) WICO PC software CCU MSU control for 8 SONY cameras . Wireless connection to cameras.
Looks cool. Can't find any reviews.
Hard to search for. I found it with "wireless camera control wico"
$1100 GBP base kit
$1900 advanced kit with integration for physical Sony RCP unit and software simultaneously.

4) ragagadget Raga MSU CCU control software for SONY cameras on PC
Russian made CCU / MSU software. Very creative english translations on their site
Wireless and Wired options. Can't find any pricing or reviews.

5)more camera CCU's of interest:
SKARHOJ hardware control MSU CCU unit for BMD studio cameras.
Beautifully built metal unit with continuous controls. Controls BMD Studio cameras only.
I only put it last here because It has nothing to do with control for a SONY EX3 which was my original search.
$2800 USD


Undoubtedly, there are many other options for Ikegami, Panasonic and others.

For zoom&record only I found this:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a23 ... =13#detail
Claiming to be working with Fuji/Canon/Sony EX.

And I know there're another choices with iris/focus in about USD$3xx(CNY$2000). Let me know if you need that

The Teradek Beam will do bi-directional RS-422. I'm looking at getting a JVC750. The JVC CCUs apparently uses TTL signals. Anyone know if that signal can be converted to RS-422 and then back again at the camera end? That would be slick, since the Be will also do bi-directional intercom.

Douglas Beechwood wrote: The stock sony CCU for an ex series camera is a RM-B150 (discontinued - hence Ebay at $1-2K / each). RM-B170 $1500-$2K each, ie per camera.

I am trying to avoid paying over $3,000USD for a 4 camera solution. SONY's route would easily cost $8,000USD before cable for a 4 camera setup, and would be limited to 150 Meters distance.

.

Hello

I'm sometime using an OBvan with HS410 and EX3.
In my opinion, RB170 are very much nicer than RB150, but in any case, I have never been able to go over 50m with the hirose cable. I tryed a few 100m over the years, it never worked.

Nothing beats triax, but the cost...

Have you tried to use WIRELESS ACCESS POINT as bridge to transfer protocol 422? Control the camera CCU takes place precisely in this protocol.

VideoKadr, could you tell us more of how to use this wireless technique with Sony Pmw300 ?

I found Wi Fi remote bridge sysytem

http://www.wireless-rcp.com/wireless-rcp-bridge.html

we just moved up to Panasonic AJ-PX270 cameras. Excellent pictures, with many adjustments available in camera. The cool feature is that they can be controlled with an iPad app, or we also bought the AK-HRP200G remote panel-basically the same panel you'd get with a ccu. The panel runs on ethernet and can control up to 19 camera units-one at a time of course. The iPad app only connects to one cam at a time, so you'd need one per cam realistically. Connect everything to a ethernet switch, or in our case two switches connected with fiber. We are shading cameras from 5000 feet away...

the px270 runs around $5k, the HRP200 around $2k. the iPad app is free.

What a fantastic and elegant solution from Panasonic, and those PX270 have a beautiful 10 bits image.

I will second the thumbs up for the panny PX270. I think the price has come down a bit and they offer heavy rebates. I've used them with the AK-HRP200G however I have not used the remote ipad app - Greg, have you had any luck controlling your cameras wireless at long range? For me it would be 1000' max and I can set up a series of access points to get there - I would love to find a solution to use the ipad app and run cat 5e out to each camera... just to avoid getting another HRP200 on a B rig. The PX270 is a bit of a old (3 year) camera these days but with a 22x lens it is great for sports...

Funny to see my own reply about 2,5 years ago in this topic.

Since then we recently developed an control box for shading NON Blackmagic cameras for a fiber company.
So now it is possible to control your camera's parameters by BMD CCU interface build into there video mixers.

It is based on the same principle as BMD uses for there (micro)Studiocameras and URSA's.
The control data is embedded in the mixer on the return video feed to the camera. Our box extract the data from the SDI signal and translate it in use-able control data for other brand cameras like JVC, Panasonic, Sony and others.

It is still a prototype box but it has a lot of potencial for the future...
- CCU Control for other brand cameras (JVC, Panasonic, Sony, RED and more to come..)
- Analog B4 lens control directly from the box. (for the ursa or studio cams that don't have that control)
- External Tally Red / Green connection.

This week the prototype is on a Fair @ BVE in London.


Panasonic camera with the proto box on it's back.

Very nice! it will be fun to see this come together... I'm a potential customer so keep us posted!

wireless and long range don't normally go together our fiber solution extends both SDI and ethernet from the control room out to the camera location. so we run coax and cat5 (25-100ft) from the cameras to our fiber box, fiber back to the control room (2,000-10,000ft), and then back to coax and cat5 for switcher and remote panel uses (10ft).

put wifi on either end of this system and you are able to use the iPad app. sort of. with the iPad at the control room, very close to access point, i still find connectivity is not 100%. maybe only about 90% of time connected. odd since my ATEM on same wifi will never even hiccup. too much traffic or glitchy app???? the ROP panel works flawlessly. the ROP also overrides the app once you select the camera the app is controlling. the app has the advantage of showing many more settings at once, too bad the ROP isn't more like a wired version of the app-but i get they are catering to the traditional V1. maybe someday iPads will have a cat5 port, or the app will support android for same reason. they should also add the ability to address more than one camera with the app. haven't tried one iPad per camera yet...

we also are using AJ-PX5000G cameras with this setup. I have one the app won't connect to, but think the user account settings aren't correct or maybe older firmware. it's a rental and show ended before i got a change to sort it. funny the ROP panel connects regardless of account credentials as long as the IP address matches. since i like things that work we are going full panel operation in future. i like it so much i may be buying another ROP panel or two. its only $$.......... VER rents the panel BTW...

also tried using the AJ-WM30 dongles-they didn't work out very well for us. maybe too many wifi networks but once it thinks it's connected you can't access the camera settings locally and most of the time not remotely either. had to physically remove the dongle to get to the menu to go back to cat5 connection. i have a month before the next show of this type-some more tests in the meantime.

Thanks for the insight Greg. I'll do some testing in the coming weeks also to find something via ipad that one can trust. I'm usually way to scared to go the wireless route. Heck, I don't even use my Teradeck equipment anymore - just run a little 1505 and done....

Xtreemtec wrote:Funny to see my own reply about 2,5 years ago in this topic.

Since then we recently developed an control box for shading NON Blackmagic cameras for a fiber company.
So now it is possible to control your camera's parameters by BMD CCU interface build into there video mixers.

It is based on the same principle as BMD uses for there (micro)Studiocameras and URSA's.
The control data is embedded in the mixer on the return video feed to the camera. Our box extract the data from the SDI signal and translate it in use-able control data for other brand cameras like JVC, Panasonic, Sony and others.

It is still a prototype box but it has a lot of potencial for the future...
- CCU Control for other brand cameras (JVC, Panasonic, Sony, RED and more to come..)
- Analog B4 lens control directly from the box. (for the ursa or studio cams that don't have that control)
- External Tally Red / Green connection.

This week the prototype is on a Fair @ BVE in London.


Panasonic camera with the proto box on it's back.

Hi, you said that you can remoted camera SONY EX-3, SONY PMW-320 by mixer ATEM? What kind of box are you constructed? This box can be conected to the camera and controled all paramatrs of camera, and her iris? Let me know schematic of the box, i am look at that it is posible.

It's a product you can buy. I don't think they will send you instructions to build your own. I believe they will sell it for a reasonable cost. You can contact them via http://fieldcast.eu/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed what Tom Bassford says. We developed it as a complete product that will be for sale later this year. It will be sold as the FieldCast Control One. Currently we are still in prototype stage as we had to do some hardware changes..

I hope we can soon release the flyer with all specs on it.

Fascinating stuff - for those of us who're trying to build OB solutions on a budget.

One idea to throw out, regarding iPad apps, can you run Apple's Xcode iPad Simulator? Or a Windows iOS emulator like the $10 iPadian - so you don't have to use an actual iPad, but set up your more-reliable solution including a hardwired Ethernet link.

I have 4 chains remoted by Sony RMB 150 for my Sony cameras on fiber optic. I bought in china. They has very nice solitions on fiber optic. It is transmitin HDSDI, tally, intercom and stering camera.

Xtreemtec wrote:Indeed what Tom Bassford says. We developed it as a complete product that will be for sale later this year. It will be sold as the FieldCast Control One. Currently we are still in prototype stage as we had to do some hardware changes..

I hope we can soon release the flyer with all specs on it.

I think this is it?



I've seen the prototype at IBC 2016 working with a Skaarhoj RCP (also proto). Early in 2017 I asked the German distributor of Fieldcast when the "Fieldcast Control One" will be available. The answer was: never.

Can you confirm that the product isn't hitting the street? Or is it just delayed? We are at the brink of going fibre all the way and this little sucker would definitley be the answer to so many problems in low-budget live video production (especially with the right price tag).

When directly e-mailing field cast I never got an answer.

Any insight on this would be great.

Thanks, Knut

I dropped you a PM Can't go in detail here but we are still working on the unit as we speak..
We just had a lot of delay in development

I have to sell 4 chains HD for Sony cameras on hybrid SMPTE cables . They has very nice solitions on fiber optic with power wired on Lemo. Each of one are camera converter and studio base station. It is transmition HDSDI, tally, intercom and stering camera from CCU ( Sony RMB 150).