How will you feel?

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James Tech

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How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 7:25 am

How will you feel about your shinny new Ursa mini pro when Grant demos the new 6k or 8k sensor, which performs well in low light at NAB? Will you cheer during the announcement of the new Ursa micro 4.6k, or the new 4k switcher models with a built in, detachable control panel? How about the new monitor(s). BMD is manufacturing lens mounts....why not re-brand or design a nifty zoom lens or set of primes? I sold all my BMD stuff. How about you?
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Lee Gauthier

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Re: How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 4:34 pm

I sold all my BMD stuff. How about you?


If you sold all your BMD stuff, why don't you troll some other board?
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Nick Gombinsky

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Re: How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 5:01 pm

Depends on if you're buying a camera to have the latest or if you're buying to work with it.

Camera manufacturing cycles have come down to a year. Every NAB there will be a newer "better" one, from each one.
I hate this just as much as you, but it doesn't make the cameras we already own, obsolete. And I don't feel betrayed by the companies who have to play this game to stay alive.


I would rant about this in another way: I hate that nowadays camera technologies and standards are changing and rising in numbers, and marketing is selling everything as something that we all need to stay updated.
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rick.lang

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Re: How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 5:21 pm

James, I'd feel great! And continue to work with the tools I have. All new developments have the potential to trickle down to a variety of related products making each year's announcements interesting to follow until the point is reached where something is so compelling you pull the trigger again. In the meantime, as Nick says, use the camera you have (had) as it still can make pretty pictures.


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Xtreemtec

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Re: How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 6:12 pm

I still use my (7 year old) JVC HM700 for a lot of productions.. But also owning a 4K OBV van... (renting cameras or cameramen with 4K cameras.. ;)

I feel in the fast changing industry we live in were every month new and better technics are developed. :D :D I don't need to invest anymore in 6 to 8 cameras.. I hire camera people that own the same cameras.. Just sync the settings up at the start of the job. (which is easy for sony jvc and others putting the complete settings on an SD card and copy it to all other cameras..)

Also shading helps a lot keeping the cams in line..

Having a pool of camera people owning Sony FS7, a pool of JVC 700 people and a pool of Sony ENG cams.. This way you can serve your customers.. And still don't loose a lot of money on decay of gear.. :idea: :idea:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Denny Smith

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Re: How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 7:03 pm

I am with Daniel, I still use my Panny AF100A for interviews, and some event work, like lectures. It stil works well, and I "updated" it by adding a Video Devices Pix recorder to get full progressive ProRes recordings for editing.

I also have the BM Micro cameras, and use the Micro Studio 4K with the PixE recorder when the extra resolution is needed. The nicely saturated colors from this camera and great looking IQ needs only,limited adjustments in post, saving time there. The Micro Cinema camera is primarily setup as my run and gun camera for handheld work, and when I need film log files for grading in post.

A new Mini Ursa would be nice to replace the AF100, and maybe some day I will (when the price of a used Mini PL comes down some more or a good deal comes along), so I can shoot in a 2K window with my S16 lenses.
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Kyriakos Liarakos

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Re: How will you feel?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 9:44 pm

I like to keep my equipment for many years and I don't like it when technology progress make me throw my old stuff to trash.
That's why I chose to buy a blackmagic URSA PL last December. The idea behind the words "keep the body and replace the sensor when a new one is coming."
I feel dissapointed because I dont know If the sensor ever come.
I feel angry because there is not any firmware update like there is for URSA Mini
I feel trapped because the price of a new URSA PL is dropped to 2.5K and I loose a lot of money if I try to sale it.
I feel stupid because I have to pay more money, to forget any upgrade and get a MINI Pro, because MINI Pro is not what I need.

I don't know why you started this topic. Maybe you are angry like I am.
I like the guys behind blackmagic. I like the Idea to replace my sensor with a 6K, to add an interchangeable mounts option, to replace the mainboard maybe....
So, I feel that I have to say it again and again to blackmagic. The idea behind the words is great! Don't throw that idea to trash.
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Benton Collins

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 1:38 am

Bring on the change! There will always be newer better faster, but the benchmark that BMD established with the original BMCC and BMPCC is still very relevant and I would say will always be relevant because the image they produce gets you in the ballpark for a true cinema look and feel. I just looked at some older files shot with those cameras and they're amazingly great! They may even be the most "filmic" and "cinematic" of all of their cameras to date.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 2:27 am

Mr. Tech has a point. If you think your business is best served by always shooting with the latest and the greatest then buying your equipment is probably gonna be a loosing proposition unless your investment can pay for itself in a few months. If you don't do that kind of business then maybe it's best to not own anything and rent when you need it, assuming your clients will cover the rental and still pay you enough to make it worth your time. That is just basic business.

I'm just a hobbyist, so I look for the latest and the greatest in the 1k$ to 2k$ range. I try to buy cameras where I can use a common set of lenses and support equipment. As Mr. Tech has pointed out, the increased turnover of new technology means that in a year or two some of the high end functionality makes its way to the low end where I like to buy. And some of those once high end cameras can be had for a real bargain.
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Denny Smith

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 2:59 am

Ditto.
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Darko Djerich

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 4:37 am

Feeling the same I could part with all cameras and future updates but not from
BMCC this piece of equipment is emotionally connected to me.
Love the look of images it produces.
In fact 4K and 4.6K though deliver beautiful images, i could live without there is something unique about BMCC.
I love and embrace new tech coming from BM and quiet impressed and excited with all happening.
This is probably first time that independent filmmakers are getting Hollywood quality digital cinema cameras and have capability to deliver work on that level and scraping hard trying to make sense of all latest glass as well.
Latest Pro update was big deal especially cos of interchangeable mount and that was
was huge desicion which camera to get not becouse of camera itself rather getting the right glass and trying to figure which way to go.
Many of us spent weeks of months getting this sorted only to find out that this was happening in backround at such short notice.
That was disappointing but not the end of the World.
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imac5k i7 32gb 2017 video assist 4k mbp mid 2015 r9 370x phase one 645df/p40+,ursa mini4.6 ef bmcc ef bmpcc micro panel ronin mx dji phantom 2 hero 3 black zenmuse 3d...sleepless nites...
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rick.lang

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 5:32 am

All the lenses are a much larger investment than the BMD cameras. Thankfully they can last for decades!


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Tom_Bassford

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 8:24 am

I'll be pleased if blackmagic actually get it together to make a usable live production camera. The ATEM ecosystem is conceptually great, but really needs serious attention in almost every detail to get it up to speed.

I hold out no hope for the problems getting fixed. It's clear by now that blackmagic as a company do not have the ability to follow a concept through to a conclusion. The ideas are great, but they never complete anything and quickly move on to the next thing without completing the current.

I really think they could do so much better if they had a better corporate structure with longer staff retention and improved communication with users.

It's always interesting to see what NAB brings, but kind of sad too as you see previous years ideas slip away as much as you see the new stuff.


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Xtreemtec

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 11:52 am

Tom for President.. :D

TO BE clear!! I'm not here to RANT on BMD. I love what they do to the broadcast industry.. The low pricing of there products to be different and put stress on the broadcast market because you don't need a GV Kayak or Sony mixer of 20K anymore to do a well suited live production.!!
But i want to point a few things out that bothers me., were if improved would be that Touch to "complete" the product to make it more usefull for the broadcast industry.

What Tom says is true.. A lot of features are annouced that never make it into the product.. Which is sometimes a real pitty and you get more beware to buy gear until proven it really works.. (WebPresenter, BMD USB 3 products)

Not having DNxHD on the Hyperdeck Mini is why i did not buy it yet.. Just because it could be that somewere along the line they find out it won't work so skip that feature.. Then i have a hyperdeck mini that i can't use.. (YES i'm a Windows person that does not deal with ProRes files)

Often the little things, the details are what it makes it to a good product..
For instance a list of things that i think hmmm Why not??

- BMD General > Everything that has a LCD Make a menu option to check/show what firmware version is in there.. Especially for the Atems were you sometimes have multiple laptops with different software versions on it.. While the Atem control panel is not backwards or forwards compatible.. So having 2 laptops with different versions running will get you to up / downgrade the videomixer... :roll:

- VA5" > Record 2 different resolutions on card.. You only can see and play the last resolution you recorded.. (this way you can't use the VA as a test generator with different resolutions) While those files are still on the card..

- VA5" > When playback.. why not have a playlist were you can select which file you want to play?

- Atems > Since 1,5 years there would be a Sony Visca output on the 422 port of the atems.. But nobody ever reported that they got it to work.. Only people that say it does not work.

- Atems > Great you guys added the Audio mixer for embedded audio in SDI a few years back, And Yes i really do like it!.. But still up today with the new video mixers there is no compesation to delay the audio that 1 frame the video needs for processing in the atem.. For the more pro productions you always have to do a re-processing at the end to get a lipsync audio..

- Atem 4K > Great that you guys have CCU. Great that i can run in 4K mode with Ursa's or other cameras.. But if i want to do shading control and ADD data of my own by the 3G Arduino shield.. The problem is that in 4K mode the CCU data is only available in 4K. The downconverted port does not include CCU / Tally data.. So if i want to add a product with 3G sdi shield i have to buy a Teranex 12G to do a 12G to 3G downconversion.. As this is the only product that does downconverting and leave the CCU data active in the output.. That is a 1200 dollar sollution for something that could be included in the software of the atem... :(

- Micro Studio Cam > Since 2 years (NAB 2015) 1 of the selling points of this camera is that it has a 422 port for PTZ control of a remote head.. Up to today the port is useless as there is no way of controlling it.

- Videohubs > No support for presets / salvo's??!! So you can only do 1 switch at a time... :|

- Teranex mini > SDI to HDMI Auto 4K downconvert option based on EDID of the screen connected.. Why not give an extra option just to switch on the downconvert.. It does have troubles with EDID more often then i would like.. Rebooting everything helps.. Or Send an HD feed to the teranex first.. The screen pops on in HD mode.. Then send 4K to it.. And it will stay in HD mode and go downconvert from there.. :roll: It works.. But you have to know how to overcome it when it does not work.

- Ursa > The delay on the output SDI with 3 frames is just too much for live work. With the delay of the atem included you talking about 4 frames delay.. Add the projector / ledwall delay to this and you will get a total delay of 7 to 10 frames Which is between 140ms and 200 ms delay.. Which is for a live situation WAY to much.. While the Studio 4K reported on the forum has around 1 frame delay.. So maybe there is a way to speed up / or create a low latency mode for the Ursa were you can't record but have 1frame delay on the sdi output or something..

- All products with Talkback.. mini jack and Apple Earbuds are NOT broadcast suited at all!! Great it has 3,5mm trs minijack plugs.. But at least put a driver behind it that is able to drive 200 Ohm headsets then.. So we can make an adapter cable to use it with the Broadcast standard headsets of Peltor, Clearcom, Clark Technic, etc.. Where 4/5 pin XLR is the standard in broadcast.. And not aviation headsets..

- The Decimator MD-HX thing.. I think that the most called phrases on the BMD forum is "Buy a Decimator MD-HX" "Decimator MD-Cross" "Little Red Box" This $240 box is a versatile live saver!!
This product is 4 or 5 years old now.. And Still one of the best sold converters on the market.. Why is there not a Teranex mini variant that could do the same? Not everyone want to put a Teranex AV or Teranex 12G on there gear to solve a simple cross conversion with internal resolution scaler.. ;)

I'm sure i forgot a few things that crossed my ways as broadcast engineer were i thoughed "if only you get that right" it would be much MUCH more usefull for the broadcast industry..


They did good things too!!

- The 3G A vs B standard.. We had to wait a long time for it.. But currently almost every gear supports A and B.. :D
- Adding buttons to the TVS HD to switch from the front :D
- The 4K and 6 / 12G revolution!!! :D
- Ursa mini Pro added buttons and 4 card slots so you can also use "normal" SD shape cards instead of the rather expensive C-Fast..
- Free Editing software Resolve that is 4K capable !!
- Micro converters that don't heat up with a Semtech chipset 8-) 8-)

To conclude.!! Yes i really like BMD and there products.. I consider myself Pro BMD (having a 4K OBV filled with BMD gear) But i would like to pay a little bit more to have the products finnished instead of bringing new gear every year and leave the old gear to rot away and not service or update the software anymore.. While the economical life of BMD gear is 2 to 3 years as the waranty will not cover more.. And repairs beyond that point are difficult / impossible.. I would like to see that there would be put a bit more effort in getting release features in the software and add / think a bit more in what does a device need to really get used in Broadcast..

I repeat i would rather pay a bit more to get functions and problems sorted like i posted above..

And maybe,, just maybe get a few guys in this forum sign a NDA and consult them when you are planning new products.. Consult them we are planning this and these are the features we want to implement.. Are you seeing issues or missing features..
Myself as an electronic engineer and also a broadcast guy have a lot of knowlage about how things should work or what features are critical to have.. Often i see products get released and see the issues that makes it less usable in broadcast because of missing features.
Because my background in Hardware & software engineering i know that sometimes features won't get stable enough to release.. And i really think that the software and hardware engineers at BMD are working there tows off to squeeze the hardware to it's limits to get new features in While being under pressure of release dates (NAB, ISE, IBC) and under pressure of budgetted hours for 1 project.. They are already busy with the products that will be released next year.. But also finnishing software , hardware issues of products to be anouced yet..

So great job on you guys!! You have accomplised a lot over the last few years!!
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, Production Studio 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio, SONY FS7 4K, JVC HM700 Full HD Camera
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rick.lang

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 12:22 pm

Excellent post, Xreemtec… Are going to NAB 2017? Nothing quite like face-to-face if that’s possible so you can hand someone that works in the broadcast area this list and expand on it in conversation with a real person. who knows, you may be invited to participate at another level if you have the time and inclination.

If NAB isn’t feasible, catch them at one of the dog-and-pony shows in Europe, but maybe arrange an interview beforehand so they will have an expert there.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 1:26 pm

Thanks Rick,

Sorry but i can't go to NAB. Based in The Netherlands Europe.. IBC is my Exibition. ;)
Tho i would like to converse on these type of topics.. Broadcast is a fast growing industry. With a lot of new players in the market from small to large.. Which are partly possible because of what BMD did to the broadcast market. eg. Deliver gear that can compete with high end gear but at a price point where other brands are forced to Rethink there whole strategy to stay in business and stay competative.. Which leads in new product lines and lower prices in general in the market.

Meanwhile i'm quite busy to get my product finnished for release. (Control One Fiber converter with Shading for broadcast cameras based on the BMD CCU Protocol) (check from 01:00)


If BMD would ask me to join a group of people i would sign up for sure.
I signed a little over 20 NDA's in my life now.. Some with very huge fine's and lawsuits if i let go of any information.. Companies ranging from Lego Mindstorms, Semtech, Sony, Panasonic and a lot more..

I defenitly would like to be in a advising role, and i can think up a few others in this forum that could really give some usefull input with there expierence of the broadcast market and workflows.. :)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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rick.lang

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 1:42 pm

IBC is a terrific show growing better each year. Hope you can connect with BMD there. Maybe one day I’ll get to NAB, but that’s when there’s money to burn as i have more pressing priorities for the next five years until the girls are through university.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 2:27 pm

Also trade shows are not great for in depth conversations, everyone is really busy at them and the number of people attending means that you'll at best have access to just one or two representatives at a time.

I have wondered about the possibility of organising an ATEMuser meeting around IBC - last year I was too busy round the time of the show (didn't even attend) but maybe this year we could do something? Perhaps a face to face meeting with some of the users and anyone from BMD who felt like attending would be a good way to build the foundations of a bigger relationship. Obviously this requires Blackmagic to be interested in the idea, but I'd hope that they could see the value in such a concept.

I very much agree with what Daniel has said in his posts here. Blackmagic have been a huge disrupter in the broadcast industry and we are all thankful for the way they have forced quality up and prices down. It would be great to feel that they were interested in building a more formal relationship with some users and drawing on the pool of experience which exists.

In the meantime we will carry on supporting each other and filling in the gaps with 3rd party products and solutions. :)
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timbutt2

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 4:42 pm

I (honestly) am going to be ecstatic no matter what is announced at NAB this year. I'm already pretty excited. However, as far as new camera hardware and/or sensors are concerned I think I am most excited for news regarding Resolve and Fusion. I'm very pleased with the URSA Mini 4.6K, and want to see continued improvements to the firmware. I still really want DNx codecs to come soon.

As for a new pocket, that would be nice. Maybe I'll consider a new UHD pocket camera that has the 4.6K color science and dynamic range as a lightweight corporate camera. I just shot some B-Roll and Interview footage for a client making a documentary and there were times he kept asking if I had a smaller camera. So a new pocket that matches the 4.6K would be fantastic.

Yet, as I've said the most important thing for me is the updates to Resolve and Fusion this year. The next URSA Mini model has to be next year at this point since they just released the Pro. My hope is that one has Wi-Fi. As for a new sensor... sure more resolution is something to ask for, but is it really necessary. 4.6K is plenty considering that we still master in 4K for the cinema and UHDTV is still coming in. I think Dynamic Range is far more important than resolution. Improved Dynamic Range on a Global Shutter is key. So my hope is a 15-stops of DR Global Shutter 4.6K URSA Mini with Wi-Fi.

As for Resolve updates: expanded editing features. Would love to have mobile editing as a thought for those of us who go from desktop to laptop to desktop on a constant basis. There a lot of times I take my laptop with me with a hard drive on the road and work on an edit. Then when back at the desktop I continue on that same project. And some more sound editing features (courtesy of Fairlight) are definitely on the way. Overall, I anticipate Resolve to become the de facto editing platform and color program.

Fusion updates: Syntheyes (or some other 3D camera tracker) software included. That's a dream. A light version would be fantastic. Simply put at this time After Effects has a built-in 3D tracker and Mocha that comes with it and that's what I want for Fusion. If it's part of the full version of Fusion, then fine I'll buy the full version for it. Then of course other enhancements. I'd love a roto brush tool like you get in After Effects to help make rotoscoping faster. And, better Cinema4D integration for those of us using Cinema4D. I get Cinema4D Lite with After Effects so that's a bonus.

And, you mentioned new monitors. OMG! That would be fantastic. If Blackmagic teamed with Flanders Scientific or some other company to bring more affordable color grading monitors I'd be ecstatic. Even production monitors for on set monitoring would make my day. So overall, I would be super duper happy.

Yeah, I'm just excited. Next year, the year after, there is no better time to be involved in filmmaking. And a lot of that is thanks to Blackmagic Design.
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Denny Smith

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 4:56 pm

Trade,shows,are,fun and exciting to see the new products or proposed product ideas. I,have been to quite a few. But what is important, is how many or with ine,of these ideas actually make it out the door to be distributed. Many good ideas die shortly after these shows, or linger a while, and fade away.

Daniel said,
What Tom says is true.. A lot of features are annouced that never make it into the product.. Which is sometimes a real pitty and you get more beware to buy gear until proven it really works..


But BM is not alone in this issue, Nikon (Nikon 1 system) Sony, and Panasonic have all promised new products that never made it to full production, or only had a short limited release. Bolex Digital tried to introduce a great little product, but in the end folded. This issue with equipment, especially camera manufacturers, has been around for a long time, as long as I can remember...

But, I also would like to see BM "finish" some of the products they have started, like the new Turret sensor for the Ursa, finsh the missing features on the Micro camera, like PZ control, did they ever make,the B4 adapter cable? And adding the missing DNxHD codec the respective gear missing this pomosed feature.

Would I like to see a new S16/MFT camera, or,a Pocket 2? Sure I would, but let's finish the ones that were started, first!
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Denny Smith wrote:
But BM is not alone in this issue, Nikon (Nikon 1 system) Sony, and Panasonic have all promised new products that never made it to full production, or only had a short limited release. This issue with equipment, especially camera manufacturers, has been around for a long time, as long as I can remember...
Cheers

I think there is a very significant difference when comparing professional / broadcast products to consumer cameras. People get (understandably) angry when they buy a professional device with the aim of using it to deliver services to their clients and have to wait months or years for the device to start shipping and when it finally does it turns out to have many functions which are listed as working in the adverts but actually are yet to be implemented or turn out simply not to work.

A consumer camera which is designed for taking holiday snaps and costs a couple of hundred quid will work OK for the vast majority of people who purchase it, pretty much regardless of how well or badly some of its additional functionality works. Even if it fails after a few months the worst that happens is someone is a bit disappointed and they buy a different brand next time. Professional gear is notably different. If it fails during a job then it's not only disappointment that the user feels, they quite probably lose money and potentially will never be able to work for that client ever again.

Blackmagic's marketing is squarely aimed at professional users, their promotional material constantly talks about being able to deliver services to clients. People expect the products to match up to the sales pitch.

It is by no means uncommon that products for professionals are shipped without full functionality, however the vast majority of Blackmagic's competitors have the decency to tell you which elements of their products are still in development. Blackmagic consistently over promise and underdeliver, and this makes professional users angry as it leads to jobs going wrong, losing money and clients.

The live production scene suffers most from this, in a live broadcast there is no "take 2" and gear either works and enables you to deliver your product to your client or it doesn't and the consequences are very serious.
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Denny Smith

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 5:46 pm

You points Tom, are spot on for professional equipment requirements? I afpgree with you on this.

I was previously referring to the issues of production/marketing in general, and no one specific part. But, while this is more common in the consumer market, it does happen in the Pro market too. For example, Rollie rolled out a new innovative Pro still digital/film camera (HY6) had the prototype at the annual show, then it took a year to release, and at release it still lacked its main digital backs and the 6x6 film for a year or more after release. By the time the first digital Back came out, it was already out of date.

That is why I ended with, BM needs to get on top of its current equipment line up, finishing off these "missed" details or features.. :mrgreen:
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nate Porter

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 10:28 pm

I will feel great. Clients/projects who need 6k/8k and amazing low light will pay for the rental. Otherwise I'll keep using my camera and clients will still be pleased as punch.
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rick.lang

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How will you feel?

PostSun Apr 02, 2017 4:13 am

On the last video I posted this week, shot in raw, I was able to reframe in post, stabilize in post, grade using ACES, on a DCI-4K timeline, and produce a hopefully decent DCI-2K deliverable from my 4.6K captured video. I think that workflow is simply wonderful. It's taken me a year to get to this point, but I am beginning to understand what a capable and affordable camera and workflow BMD offers. Looking back the five years I've followed BMD's progress in camera evolution, I can't imagine what I'd be doing without BMD there to help me realize my dreams working in this medium. I know that it's far from an easy ride, that BMD frequently stumbles and bites off more than they can chew, but that's part of the price we pay for a company that follows the dictum, "a man's reach should exceed his grasp." Some companies reliably deliver what they can grasp. BMD takes us along on the adventure as they reach too high, stumble, and get up again and then reach higher.


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JasonFinnigan

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSun Apr 02, 2017 1:01 pm

I find it funny when people think companies should stop innovating and developing new products cause, It just might offend someone..

Companies are there to make money, not to worry about your feelings.
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Stephen Press

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSun Apr 02, 2017 8:34 pm

I feel like the Pro's launch was badly handled.
I feel as UM owner I've been ripped off.
I feel BM don't give a rats ass about existing customers.
I feel like there has been no communication with current owners from BM.
I feel like they took my money knowing there was a better camera for me but they didn't care.
I feel like my MU is now half the value it was one month after I bought it.
I feel like I started a relationship with BM and they ignored me to find someone new.

That's how I feel and no amount of logic will change that.
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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rick.lang

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSun Apr 02, 2017 9:43 pm

Saying "good-bye" to this thread. Ciao.


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Denny Smith

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSun Apr 02, 2017 10:58 pm

Me too, so long...
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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chris.white

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Re: How will you feel?

PostSun Apr 02, 2017 11:41 pm

Stephen Press wrote:I feel like my MU is now half the value it was one month after I bought it.

That's how I feel and no amount of logic will change that.


Just curious, does the reseller you purchased from not offer a return policy? Many places give you 30-45 days to return an item if you're unhappy. Or was the UM pro announcement past your return window?
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Stephen Press

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Re: How will you feel?

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 2:01 am

UM Pro announcement was just past... and if I'm being honest I'm still very happy with the UM. It does everything I want, I just have to work around some things that the Pro does natively. Even if BM had offered some sort of upgrade I might not have taken it, but it would have been my decision to make.
I would "feel" better about it and I would "feel" better about BM as a company if there had been that option.
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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timbutt2

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Re: How will you feel?

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 4:12 am

Stephen, I do not understand your anger. Not one bit. If you really feel that way you should not be in the technological industry. Technology changes very quickly. I love what Blackmagic announces every time they announce it. Whether I'm buying into a past technology or not it all benefits the entire industry.

Your negativity is very sour. Please, for the sake of everyone smoke a J and take a chill pill. Oh, wait... within legal limitations do the necessary medically approved calm down drug.

If you close down this thread, then I feel sorry for you. I'm still on the most up to date iMac, however, in two months it will be "old" by technology standards. That's the way of the world. I know someone on a RED Epic who is upset that I have the URSA Mini 4.6K because it's technically better than his camera. That person still gets work.

I'm getting back to work on my "Vignettes" for now. I love the footage I've gotten with my URSA Mini 4.6K so much that I don't care that I don't have the Pro. The only reason I have to update to the Pro is the interchangeable lens mount. Is that enough a reason to upgrade? NO!

There are times people need to be reasonable. I'm going to be ecstatic with whatever Blackmagic Design announces at NAB this year. Above all else, I know that what matters most is content. If you can't make quality content then the audience doesn't care enough what tools you used to make it.
"Movies are not watched. They are an encounter with a life's experience not your own." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Early 2013)
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Stephen Press

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Re: How will you feel?

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 5:59 am

Did you actually read my post?
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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Darko Djerich

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Re: How will you feel?

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 7:38 am

Stephen is brutally honest and saying the truth...
We all know tools and fools thing...
Post is asking how we feel?
If you cant express how you feel or that you may upset establishment then there is even more reason you shouldn't be an artist.
I feel similar as Stephen though if you search my post in past I was always full of praise how I felt about BM.
This latest release was dry sneaky,corporate hungry and aggressive ,greedy and non considerate of long term BM followers and loyals.
That is exactly how he feels I believe so do I.
Now will this stop me shooting films no my XL1 and GS400 did just fine 15 years ago so you don't have to tell now that if this was hen do that...
Will I buy another product ,yes,buying now micro panel and also Smartview 4K.
But if you ask us how we feel then either hide how you feel and play safe or just leave others to comment how they truly feel...we can't feel all the same and feelings are kind of personal and subjective.
Artist
Creative Film Enterprises
creativefilm.com.au
imac5k i7 32gb 2017 video assist 4k mbp mid 2015 r9 370x phase one 645df/p40+,ursa mini4.6 ef bmcc ef bmpcc micro panel ronin mx dji phantom 2 hero 3 black zenmuse 3d...sleepless nites...
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Darko Djerich

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Re: How will you feel?

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 10:23 pm

Another proof HOW WE FEEL
is not that important as this has been moved to off topic section of the forum.
We obviously hit the nerve and this is best response they got.
This section of the forum is related to non BMD products, so there you go UM is not even their product anymore.



Well done BMD!

PS. "ignorance is no excuse"
Artist
Creative Film Enterprises
creativefilm.com.au
imac5k i7 32gb 2017 video assist 4k mbp mid 2015 r9 370x phase one 645df/p40+,ursa mini4.6 ef bmcc ef bmpcc micro panel ronin mx dji phantom 2 hero 3 black zenmuse 3d...sleepless nites...
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Xtreemtec

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Re: How will you feel?

PostTue Apr 04, 2017 11:48 am

Well i think the move has more to do with all the people talking about how they feel and this topic does not contribute at all to help any users in the cinematic forum..

Thats why they moved it to offtopic as 95% of the posts in this topic are Off-Topic to the cinematic forum.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, Production Studio 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio, SONY FS7 4K, JVC HM700 Full HD Camera
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Darko Djerich

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Re: How will you feel?

PostTue Apr 04, 2017 12:35 pm

Sure thanks for heads up.
Feeling has nothing to do with cinematography.
No one cares but everyone is quick to correct the other and also at the same time happy to sit on fence and ones who speak up and tell the truth are moved off topic.
I keep learning more and more it's quiet entertaining.
That was educational.
Thank you.
Artist
Creative Film Enterprises
creativefilm.com.au
imac5k i7 32gb 2017 video assist 4k mbp mid 2015 r9 370x phase one 645df/p40+,ursa mini4.6 ef bmcc ef bmpcc micro panel ronin mx dji phantom 2 hero 3 black zenmuse 3d...sleepless nites...
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Ava Jackson

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Re: How will you feel?

PostTue Apr 04, 2017 1:27 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:Mr. Tech has a point. If you think your business is best served by always shooting with the latest and the greatest then buying your equipment is probably gonna be a loosing proposition unless your investment can pay for itself in a few months. If you don't do that kind of business then maybe it's best to not own anything and rent when you need it, assuming your clients will cover the rental and still pay you enough to make it worth your time. That is just basic business.

I'm just a hobbyist, so I look for the latest and the greatest in the 1k$ to 2k$ range. I try to buy cameras where I can use a common set of lenses and support equipment. As Mr. Tech has pointed out, the increased turnover of new technology means that in a year or two some of the high end functionality makes its way to the low end where I like to buy. And some of those once high end cameras can be had for a real bargain.


Summed up really well, i have the same perception, unless it is for some business purpose which needs to be adhered to and would get payback not so long then it is justified otherwise would stick to what i am using already.
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Craig York

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Re: How will you feel?

PostWed Apr 19, 2017 8:02 pm

We are in the fastest technological growth era ever. I can't believe how fast things are changing. I come from a musical background and every 6 months or so there is a new interface with more features. The one thing I have learned is that you cannot chase technology. But I have to agree with the original poster. I love my BM Cameras. I own the BMPCC, BMCC and the Ursa Mini. When I purchased the BMCC less than six months later they came out with the 4K version before they even worked out the bugs in the 2.5K version. Recently I upgraded to the Ursa Mini and now they come out with the 4.6 Pro. No big deal because I got a great deal on the Ursa Mini.

I am going to NAB next week and can't wait to meet them and talk to them face to face. I have a lot of questions for them.

Great post and follow-up post @ James Tech!

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