Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostFri Oct 19, 2018 5:58 pm

Oh Padawan, you see so much, and miss so much. CONTEXT.

The Force is mysterious, it requires you to read the discussion. There that's it, that's how the force works (the last bit was a switch over to British style humor). :)

I was saying that big Panasonic doesn't want to to do it by themselves (after the ussual, why don't little me do it sort of discussion). After saying it is too big for BM, so they can partner their services to phone companies to supply good camera functionality and branding to phones. LG Black Magic cinema phone. Alcatel, ZTE, Asus, anybody with a distribution network who wants to. Samsung, Apple, Sony etc, already have top camera phones and sales/or vested interest in outside camera market.

Also, after I list reasons why it is too difficult, which you then mainly relist after I just posted a link to Pansonic saying the same thing as evidence of what Is was talking about, to those that think I should, in business terms, just throw it together. Unfortunately, for those guys, I can cook pancakes, a phone I can't.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostFri Oct 19, 2018 6:14 pm

I have however, on a number of occasions, been trying to get some parties interested in doing software to do pro recording on Android. But to no avail, but after a discussion I noticed, 200Mb/s option on Open Camera has recently turned up. But that means nothing unless you can get a codec to work that fast, which is an issue on Android devices requiring a custom processing and storage path using GPU etc. However, I do know a guy who was doing 600mb/s on iPhone 4s or something. He maybe doing over 5k resolution on latest models, and that could be rearranged to record raw. But Apple, didn't put an memory card in that idea (a pub on putting a sock in it to stop talking).

Elphel which came before aspertus and axiom was one early one. But no comprende, but then somebody else roped them in, and without high guidence.. You could even say that they were the original below $1000 digital cinema camera, except I wouldn't say lower bit rate jpeg on small old micro/aptina (older pocket camera/phone stuff) was. But what do I know, it's not letting I can sit and think about how things are going turn out without low compression/raw in face of cameras with bigger sensors and more pro.festures coming.
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Wayne Steven

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8k Chinese camera phone to be released in January.

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 am

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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 4:42 am

This company is setting up a dedicated camera division, so maybe a good company to partner with, to do a BM badged camera phone, like other companies do deals with lens companies on their phones.

Think, a $400AU with 2k bm raw mode, and action camera (they are are the parent company to yi, who did the leading 4k+ camera, and were trying to buy gopro who might hold the cineform technology patents and application specific custom integrated circuit technology). All of which are desirable.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 3:18 pm

BMD’s tech model is to use field programmable gates arrays rather than custom designed ACIS chips that are faster and less power hungry. This gives them flexibility, lower cost and less development times, but st the cost of speed, battery life, and greater thermal envelope. Phones work off custom chips to avoid these problems. Look at how BMD had to had bulk to the Pocket 4K to allow for cooling.

Designing phone is not easily, and only the biggest corporations can do it quickly. Look at how RED had to introduce their phone with a previous generation CPU chip that was current when they started the design and certification processes. In contrast, the camera industry works more slowly, and with larger boxes that do not have to have all day battery life.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 9:04 pm

They used to get engineers in China to design a new phone every couple of weeks (single engineer). It's not that it's difficult using other people's reference platfos which doost of the work there, it's getting its certified and in distribution channels.

But what I mentioned here is not BM designing the phone but an existing company with.existing channels and processes of certification stream lined. All I'm saying is BM could provide recording software and tweak the camera setup and design as a license to.yje phone maker, maybe on an up coming to be certified platform, much easier.

Now, FPGA adds cost. ASIC are often avoided because they add cost I'm low numbers, but are cheaper high nberd. Hence, if you have enough products to produce the volume, like BM has, they reduce the price. It is the next step, and one Red did, but redray didn't go across America with odeomax. It's a model I could see problems with, be sure trying to get top content licenses is hard enough, but for visually lossless content, that's difficult, as studios are fearful of product being recorded or devalued. But they did not see signs of this being accommodated a lot.

Now, let's backup. Arm mobile/embedded chips have more than enough processing power to run professional cameras. It may not be as energy efficient as a completely custom chip but it is better. Mobile chips in particular are mass produced at lower prices, they often are not custom per phone, but customised to do certain things in the category. Some have enough power to do professional raw 8k cameras, especially given GPU processing assistance. The video specs on these chips are misleadingly underated, they are too with the lane consumer video encoders, not the actual video capability. If you look at how many frames a second of max resolution they can pull of if a sensor RAW, the actual capability is much higher, if you want to process it differently on chip. That's a truer picture of the world.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 9:28 pm

Red is not the best comparison to use. A lot of stuff they do, I would advise against, and have been proven right. The end date was extended so far out not only should they have aimed at 845 (a renegotiation and redesign before certification) and they could have used the 855 and released the phone at CE$ 2019. But, they should have done a multipoint camera array on the phone and drop the price. 4 or more class or their own sensors, would have done it. Qualcomm has their own several cameras at once arrangements, and Nvidia. As it is, it's a $500 camera to me after all this time. They refused to even announce stuff about its camera ability fur a very long time. In the end, the truth came out. Nothing special. Wait for the modules. More modules, more expense on top of the price. The company above could do better camera at half the price. Hold it, wait, they probably did already, the original Mi 8 which scored near the top of the dxo chart (though I didn't buy one as I didn't think it was it was good enough). Today I got the offer on the Hubble block chain os phone with pocket hybrid like filming form factor and 60mp side camera with 15x optical zoom. Red is due for their next phone as well, to keep up. Nokia is alledgedly working with light to release a 5 multipoint back camera phone, which was to be released in the last couple of months. Lenovo is showing off some 4 back camera phone. But I don't know if they are multipoint or something else.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 9:43 pm

Yes, Red had a relationship with Apple, Jim and Steve were freinds, and used to play golf together. Even he found it difficult to talk to Apple after Steve regretfully went away.

Maybe Apple might go for it as a special/flagship phone. But Apple doesn't need them. They can just do it themselves, put ProRes and ProRes raw in, or do DNG fast and make it into CDNG in a meta-data container to make it faster, and more like BM Raw. They already have a reputation. But Xiaomi is an low-end leader with good reputation (one plus, Picco and Yi and subsidiaries) seeking even better camera reputation. For them, it can be a trump over Huawei camera reputation and optics licensing marketing. So, yes, they could go for it. They are starting their American operations and have opened hundreds of stores in Asia in short time from memory. Keep an eye on them and Oppo.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostTue Dec 18, 2018 12:48 pm

Here is some inspiration (Its amazing the design stuff you see on pintrest).

Notice how it looks like a small phone from the back. Thinned down it would be that way. As is, the pocket could look note like thus with phone processing parts. You think I am joking, there is already a ultra cheap ($299- on special) m43rds camera out for a while like this (actually, not the first).

Image

https://www.behance.net/gallery/35392525/Apple-icamera
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/464433780307057153/

This one has a tiny resemblance to my camera phone design, but its a lot thicker without the professional controls or mountable lens. You can see, it would make for a wonderful $400 prores phone.

Image

https://blond.cc/work/segment-camera/
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/147000375316668381/

Of course:

Image

For fun. Again the pocket could look more like this with phone parts. Sigma do this type of camera.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostTue Dec 18, 2018 12:57 pm

It should be noted, very low profile high quality multifocal lens can be made suitable for internal use by a few innovations. One is liquid kens technology, another is curved sensors, both which drastically reduce the lens size, another is an old lens type they are using on the Red hydrogen camera module. Something I pointed out years back.

Image

Image
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Nokia 9 pureview phone with 5 camera Light technology.

PostMon Feb 25, 2019 1:36 am

I have started a thread about the new Nokia 9 pureview phone with 5 camera Light technology. Not applied to video unfortunately, but a leading snapper for whoever is interested:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86631
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostMon Feb 25, 2019 5:24 pm

Rick Lang, surely BlackBerry + Blackmagic would = MagicBerry :)
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 2:37 am

Posted a thread and about the new 1TB microsd cards.

It s uncertain about the write speed, but maybe enough for some Braw modes, and some provideo modes. There has also been released a 985MB/s microsd standard. It's a matter during handoff in a stiff breeze...."Op's there goes several hours of quality footage as it blows away... :D

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86688

985MB/s MICRO SD express:
https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/0 ... -2019.html
Last edited by Wayne Steven on Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 2:55 am

OK, elsewhere, there is an announcement that Light has signed a deal with Sony to provide 4+ camera modules for phone makers.

I imagine what they are going do is what I was planning to do, use the on sensor pixel backend processing technology to process the image. Light can move the bulk of it's mobile processing load on sensor with it's own circuit design, to present to the hamstrung phones, a finale/compressed image. Nokia obviously doesn't have thia design yet, but it is evident that they could do cdng (in a container file) 2k quality video using three or four cameras with post focussing ability. But at the moment they are using the scheme I advised light of, which light then supported, of using at least one sensor to get 4k video, to get the 4k feature. I wonder if they could do 2k refocusable 3D video in the light 16, or if they have used three focus length cameras to provide zoom? I didn't keep up.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 3:20 am

So, this four+ camera design is a good opportunity for BM to a "Cinema Camera Thin" or mobile phone, a braw device.

My plan was to sidetrack all the conspiratorial collusion and market hamstringing of the mobile market, and costly market by market phone certification, by using a mobile phone platform without the mobile phone section. You could get an million phone run design cheap, simply with the parts missing for the phone, even turned off). You immediately get the economy of scale of manufacturing a million plus unit, as well as the million plus parts. Even if 2k video, as I said before, a lot of you guys would buy.

Also, this sort of module could come in a future Video Camera Assist, which not only records and controls your normal camera, but can use the module and remote heads to record the processed image. The module forming cheap remote wireless POV heads around set. Where as a real head will give the maximum quality, the disposable heads for a few hundred can give an image that can be used to emulate an reasonable image. You guys would probably carry around 10 of them for special and action shots, and even maybe go through 10 a year. BM could make hefty profit from selling packs of them. That's the sort of thinking that makes the millions of net profit. The users will destroy them without designed redundancy. This is the reality of where we should be headed.

Now, I have been on about 4 camera module setups for years, as a compromise from the 9 camera+, and 5+ setups. But I'm working on something newer now. But at least they have 4+ modules. Yes, it is time for BM to jump on board.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 12:31 am

Looks like light has improved video further on the L16 with more to come. The company has been putting a lot of development and partner work in. Definitely one BM should look at.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostWed Mar 20, 2019 1:23 pm

OK guys, I need your help. Did I start an 8k phone thread. I haven't found one yet, and I have come across something very interesting while searching for 8k camera phone, you should check out for visual quality:



I am going to speculate as Apples new event is coming up, and NAB (but Red says they aren't going there) that this phone might possibly be an Apple, or Red phone. As the guy is acting like he just did a double 360 in two axis at once on a skate board after jumping out of a plain, and he is a nearly dude and showing surprising reverence using it, it may well be a Red phone. (That was a joke, but seriously Apple fans aren't that trendy thinking :) ).

The hint, obviously capable, several lens (which indicates something using light camera technology maybe instead of Red). Coming soon after most companies had announced their flagships for the world conference). Nokia has more cameras coming using light, but they are supposed to be latter. Mi 8 manufacturer announced it will use light but that's all we know, and that was last month or this month. Lenovo, announced something interesting in competition, which sound like my old designs, but not several lens. All we know now, is that this time of year, Apple and Red are outliers, or some special phone. Apples next phone is supposed to have a three lens phone in a D conflict configuration, not several lenses. Plus, the stills from the lsdt iPhone compared to the Nokia 9 pureview were not flattering. I did noticed a yellow tinge in a shot, maybe it is a Sony sensor, which the light modules have an agreement with. However, Nokia moving back it's light processing still camera phone to a point where somebody is about to release something vastly better in video, stretches the imagination. But Qualcomm has show off a several lens phone sketch last year or year before, which its 855 chip was supposed to handle, so that is a possibility.

The footage, yes very pocket 4k like, but such a mess its hard to tell. I showed it anyway, as even though professionally its not great great, for mobile phone footage its pretty good, and you have to ask, what could one do?

I didn't examine it to see if it had good digital post processing focus and bokeh calculation (didn't think of it) which a several lens light like camera should he able to do, but I don't remember the close up of the parrot being very warped, which is something a wide lens array camera could calculate. Anyway, my excuse is I've taken a sleeper and I can try to pick this up tomorrow. But what would be really cool, is if it was a BM camera phone.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostWed Mar 20, 2019 1:41 pm

If we could calculate the size of the phone by where he is holding his hands, we could eliminate some cameras. But then again, maybe he is a 7 foot giant holding a small hydrogen phone :)
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostWed Mar 20, 2019 6:18 pm

RED HYDROGEN Part 2... :roll:

Isn't this a product forum for products that exist? If you've got a great idea patent it, build it, and sell it. This whole thread is about Wayne Stevens ego and wanting to be right. Throw enough ideas at a wall and one of them is bound to come to fruition.

Seriously though...a phone with a lens mount? One with a lens likely heavier than the device it's tethered too. You've got the worst of both worlds...a phone that interrupts your shoot and camera with a lens mount that makes the device not pocketable.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 5:18 am

As usual Jay, its about your ego coming into here stomping. There are other threads to be negative on.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 5:39 am

jsmith wrote:Seriously though...a phone with a lens mount? One with a lens likely heavier than the device it's tethered too. You've got the worst of both worlds...a phone that interrupts your shoot and camera with a lens mount that makes the device not pocketable.


More on some sort of topic. ?

It shows a lack of imagination, understanding and ability and definitely a qualification for not posting in other's threads. I'm sorry you make our heads hurt J because yours does.

The biggest irony, is you talked about Red hydrogen, which has an extremely low profile lens for the cinema mount so many millimeters tall (not to mention other compact designs) before you said that. You also seem to miss the history of lenses bigger than the cameras they are attached to, and people just hold the lens and camera to balance the weight. That includes both pockets, micros, and most mounted digital still cameras. Or do you want to Dis BM too because you want to look right?

It is not all about you Jay, it's about the truth with me, you missed that point. I'm saying it because it's provably true or likely true with the qualifications to it being true which I give (which serial disrupters seem to be the only ones who don't understand a qualification in speech here, and the source of many things).

Anyway, back to a potentially good example people might like use in their camera array. Good constructive vibrations for others, as usual!
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 1:47 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:
jsmith wrote:Seriously though...a phone with a lens mount? One with a lens likely heavier than the device it's tethered too. You've got the worst of both worlds...a phone that interrupts your shoot and camera with a lens mount that makes the device not pocketable.


More on some sort of topic. ?

It shows a lack of imagination, understanding and ability and definitely a qualification for not posting in other's threads. I'm sorry you make our heads hurt J because yours does.

The biggest irony, is you talked about Red hydrogen, which has an extremely low profile lens for the cinema mount so many millimeters tall (not to mention other compact designs) before you said that. You also seem to miss the history of lenses bigger than the cameras they are attached to, and people just hold the lens and camera to balance the weight. That includes both pockets, micros, and most mounted digital still cameras. Or do you want to Dis BM too because you want to look right?

It is not all about you Jay, it's about the truth with me, you missed that point. I'm saying it because it's provably true or likely true with the qualifications to it being true which I give (which serial disrupters seem to be the only ones who don't understand a qualification in speech here, and the source of many things).

Anyway, back to a potentially good example people might like use in their camera array. Good constructive vibrations for others, as usual!


1) The Red hydrogen built-in camera is terrible. The idea they gave to customers was that it was going to receive additional modules to make it a more cinematic camera. Turns out that's not happening anymore. It's a nice idea but it doesn't work out in practice. Not to mention the fact that I would be surprised if RED owned all the patents to the concept since that was one of their plans already.

2) "You also seem to miss the history of lenses bigger than the cameras they are attached to, and people just hold the lens and camera to balance the weight...That includes both pockets, micros, and most mounted digital still cameras. Or do you want to Dis BM too because you want to look right?
" So you're saying that the pocket 4k, Micro, etc are pencil thin (or thinner)? Last I checked they weren't. Even still they can be balanced, have a grip, and have enough depth available to them to have a strong mounting point for those large lenses. Once you start adding these things altogether it becomes a very poor user experience as a phone and as a camera. I mean...if you're carrying a bag with all these lenses why not just carry a more robust camera?

Prove me wrong and build it. Before you jump in with an "I've got other projects" or "mass market is too difficult" excuse you build a prototype before mass marketing surely you could do that much. Stop asking for other people to do your work for you.

What company would even acknowledge this type of post? If they did build it you would sue the pants of them to pay your medical bills. They won't and if they do it will be a different product altogether. The concepts you've described are all over the internet. You're not inventing NEW technology you're re-purposing ideas that already exist. Where is the mockup that wasn't stolen from the internet (someone else's idea)? Where are these patented documents showing how your vertical sensor is different and/or ready to be put into this camera? Please SHOW US how building your own thinner version of the Yongnuo YN450 with a better codec is a brand new invention that will definitely succeed.

The ultimate point of contention is you could propose this product directly to Blackmagic with a clearly defined scope , design, and business plan instead of posting about it in a forum that isn't labeled "Things I'm too lazy to build myself". If they do awesome if they don't there is a reason for it. You could patent it and license them out to BM. So many things you COULD do that you decided to paint yourself as the inventor of something that they haven't made. It's all about ego with you "my inventions" "my technology" "Based on my ideas" with no proof that they are your owned ideas. You're a patent troll with no patents.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 2:33 pm

jsmith wrote:1) The Red hydrogen built-in camera is terrible.


According to whom?
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 5:22 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
jsmith wrote:1) The Red hydrogen built-in camera is terrible.


According to whom?


Terrible was my word choice. Just about every first hand review has reported it "average at best" or "sub-par". It certainly isn't winning camera awards. It's not even in the top 30 rated smartphone cameras when compared to phones that aren't $1300.

https://www.androidauthority.com/red-hy ... ew-929719/
https://www.diyphotography.net/the-red- ... f-a-phone/
https://mashable.com/review/red-hydroge ... TYJ07.tmqq
Are just a few of the MANY, MANY review stating it as just meeting average. The expectation of people who bought it was that they would be bringing something BETTER to the table. Not the previous years processor and a "sub-par camera" from a company who...makes cameras.

I'm not ant-red but I can see that their first foray into smartphones wasn't the shining representation of a cinema camera phone the customer base expected.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 5:27 pm

Have you ever actually looked at one yourself?

Or read a review from someone who might actually have a clue about cameras, like the CEO of Panavision?

Everyone I know who's seen one in person has been pretty impressed, even ones who have no idea who Red is...
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 5:47 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:Have you ever actually looked at one yourself?

Or read a review from someone who might actually have a clue about cameras, like the CEO of Panavision?

Everyone I know who's seen one in person has been pretty impressed, even ones who have no idea who Red is...


I did not see an article written by the CEO of Panavision.
HOWEVER, I definitely watched the video where the VP of innovation at Panavision reviewed the Hydrogen one and explicitly chose not take their other phone with them to compare. There was one comparison shot to an iphone that came out the year it was announced (not delivered) that was comparable but he emphasizes not to look at current output because raw was coming . The features he stressed (Raw images (can be done on ios and android with apps)) and (modularity) aren't available yet (as far as I know). Regardless, we are talking the cameras in the phone. Not extensions that may or may not be coming.

Poor reviews from "average people" sort of underscores why building a low margin cinema camera smartphone isn't really worth the cost of development.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 6:00 pm

jsmith wrote:I did not see an article written by the CEO of Panavision.


Oh, I goofed -- he was CEO of Light Iron before Panavision acquired it. Oops.

HOWEVER, I definitely watched the video where the VP of innovation at Panavision reviewed the Hydrogen one and explicitly chose not take their other phone with them to compare. There was one comparison shot to an iphone that came out the year it was announced (not delivered) that was comparable but he emphasizes not to look at current output because raw was coming .


That was also when it was in alpha -- which appears to be lost on most of the reviewers who looked at it.

The features he stressed (Raw images (can be done on ios and android with apps)) and (modularity) aren't available yet (as far as I know). Regardless, we are talking the cameras in the phone. Not extensions that may or may not be coming.


I'm also talking about the in-phone cameras. Several people who've seen the images, especially in video, preferred the Hydrogen footage over Canon d60 footage because it had nicer color and less noise...
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 6:17 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:I'm also talking about the in-phone cameras. Several people who've seen the images, especially in video, preferred the Hydrogen footage over Canon d60 footage because it had nicer color and less noise...


The footage I've seen looks like what I'd expect smartphone footage to look like. Smartphone sensors are so small that you still get pretty severe watercolor effect when noise reduction is introduced. Colors are a matter of preference and you can always conform them to match (filmic pro lets you use luts). I didn't expect much out of the built-in camera and it didn't really deliver. The value of that product was always in it's modularity. That module from what can be gathered however, would/will be significantly heftier than what is being proposed in this thread. If you have to attach a module the size of a DSMC2 Brain to make it a "cinema camera smartphone" then why wouldn't you just buy that camera. At what point is the phone just a monitor with a psuedo lenticular disply?
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 6:25 pm

jsmith wrote:The value of that product was always in it's modularity. That module from what can be gathered however, would/will be significantly heftier than what is being proposed in this thread. If you have to attach a module the size of a DSMC2 Brain to make it a "cinema camera smartphone" then why wouldn't you just buy that camera. At what point is the phone just a monitor?


It sounds like the pro version is going to be an updated phone.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostFri Mar 22, 2019 12:03 am

jsmith wrote:
Anyway, back to a potentially good example people might like use in their camera array. Good constructive vibrations for others, as usual!


1) The Red hydrogen built-in camera is terrible. The idea they gave to customers was that it was going to receive additional modules to make it a more cinematic camera. Turns out that's not happening anymore. It's a nice idea but it doesn't work out in practice. Not to mention the fact that I would be surprised if RED owned all the patents to the concept since that was one of their plans already.

2) "You also seem to miss the history of lenses bigger than the cameras they are attached to, and people just hold the lens and camera to balance the weight...That includes both pockets, micros, and most mounted digital still cameras. Or do you want to Dis BM too because you want to look right?
" So you're saying that the pocket 4k, Micro, etc are pencil thin (or thinner)? Last I checked they weren't. Even still they can be balanced, have a grip, and have enough depth available to them to have a strong mounting point for those large lenses. Once you start adding these things altogether it becomes a very poor user experience as a phone and as a camera. I mean...if you're carrying a bag with all these lenses why not just carry a more robust camera?


Jaymes. I'm talking about the thin lens for the cinema module, which is based an old lens type suggested to them. Don't just assume the worse to fit.

Your presumption that such a camera needs to be kitted out like a normal camera, or even held like a normal phone or camera, or even needs a large lens, is wrong. Even if you wanted to go overboard, the back plate of the phone would need to strong, this maybe even include mount points or holes (not needed) or a simple slide on cage to reinforce it. You have a holding point under the base of the lens, to carry the weight. It becomes a lens with a camera attached as with such setups, as usual. However. I say mount, because people want mount, but I prefer built in new lens tech. But with mount, a new technology semipermanent lens can be latter inserted after the older one that comes with it.

Who mentioned too thin. That's your idea.

Light 16, Nokia 9 purview, new 4 lens light phone modules. Big lens not needed. Small sensors delivering big picture. Reality.

I think you better stop stalking, conversations would be a lot shorter if you and others just didn't presume their way to supposed victory over the top of us!!

As I said seems a lack of ability in this sense, just hot wind against us. Reading the rest of the rant. You seem clueless on what is on the other side of the veill. In FANTASY land, on how easy everything is. Threatening law suites over nothing, because you don't even understand the patent law and disclosure, confusing things which are external discussion and unpatentable unsuable you... with things stolen privately or patented when no such patent right exists after disclosure. I have not tried, or maybe not even threatened, to sue anybody despite having many other legitimate reasons. Notice it is only a handful of stalking idiots that try to blow out conversations here, and thousands of people who don't, which says a lot. You are not significant with your whining disruption, you are out to hurt someone because your own internal feeling about yourself. This doesn't gain you anything positive doing this

Now, I have had hundreds and hundreds of technological improvements both suggested in private and publicly, implemented by companies for free over up to 35 years. Far bigger companies which I have never even tried to sue (over what??) than you guys, who have never said such foolish things. In matter of fact, not being foolish, they normally have the exact opposite reaction to me. Says everything doesn't it?

You are wasting my time and everybody's time Jaymes, just a cruel, cruel satanic joke against me. Leave it alone, and clean up your rubbish against me. Most of what you guys do to me is, ironically, not untestable, but I believe in reasonable discussion to give others opportunity to redeem themselves.
Last edited by Wayne Steven on Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostFri Mar 22, 2019 12:16 am

You are attributing statements to me I have not made (which is too common around here). When you use double quotes like this, that means you are quoting word for word, asserting somebody has said something. Please remove all such false quotes, and I don't care if it takes you all year to determine which ones I never said. In matter of fact most of your assertions about me are in error. But somebody who comes into another's discussion to stir up trouble about nothing, has already affected their own reputation.
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostSun Oct 20, 2019 6:23 pm

See this poll:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=101033

See this licensing Braw to Google or LG thread:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=101034
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Oct 31, 2019 12:21 pm

Is Arri's Alexa's days limited:

Here is the Samsung 16 stop 12k mobile sensor I told you about, which shoots 6k video. It is under 1 inch, but 1 inch version should be over 16k and do 8l video:

https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_announce ... -38627.php

The adjustable gain depending on illumination hdr sounds a bit like the autobrite technology my very old camera has which people doubt. Some people are so twigged they can't be challenged with truth, but instead have to stand in front of progress and make an intellectual scene, even when presented with concrete over evidence they demand (Yes, I'm not fond of that sort of prima dona).

Here is a mid range phone that uses it. The finale design of the sensor setup here was fine with Samsung. The optical zoom is 5x.

https://m.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_posts_cam ... -39835.php

https://m.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_teases_a_ ... -39853.php

Pretty good for low resolution versions of the 12k consumer images:

Image

Here is the balcony of the building in the foreground:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Why BM should make a cinema camera (provideo) phone.

PostThu Oct 31, 2019 12:54 pm

Now, the disaster which is Red Hydrogen. They were concretely warned by somebody with a track record, and it has turned out like it could . The right people were not there doing the right thing. Some sort of great honey pot deal happened and they were let down. In these things, you have continuous staged goal orientated contracts where you walk away with all IP and continuously supplied documentation, if things are going south, and you walk into the offices of the next firm. We know doing business abroad in electronics circles is ruthless, even compared to doing things in the US. Plenty of B.S. flys around and it is good to have a mutually agreed outs, to keep the other party lean and mean and eager to comply to their contract, and hope it doesn't need to come to that. I would run a dual strategy where two competing firms are doing the design based on each other's work, so I can swap around parts of the work to increase efficiency. Not even the Chinese would have seen that obe fur a while. But no, then they are going to move it "in house" only to announce closure latter. Just because you hire people doesn't mean they want you to succeed, or their other "customers" are happy about it. Interviewing organisations with the talent and ability, and commercial political independence, and interviewing the staff in the project and our if the project, noting who's contracts will out last the project. Analysing their customers, investors and suppliers. You have to have a feel for it. Thus sort of economic political business strategy is probably beyond most companies, but being the new kid on the block, without the business and development culture in foreign lands, you need it, or be the wooden duck.

I imagine, even though this project has closed down, they are working on a replacement project. If they have skill, they would have sold a license on this and moved on. The new project might be another format of low end camera. We might yet see something like the hydrogen out there from another company. One which may have the sensor inbuilt, or multipoint sensor inbuilt, with the 3D auto stereoscopic display. Good to them. There are people baying for their blood on comments lately, but they still have done good things and a lot of things. So, it is only one of some hiccups. What matters is what they do in response to them all, and what they do in the future.
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