Hyperdeck File Formats

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raythompsontn

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Hyperdeck File Formats

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 3:10 pm

I am looking for information on the format of files to be used on the Hyperdeck. I have tried multiple formats but none are recognized. I suspect the issue has to do with the frame rate and not the actual file type and extension.

Does anyone have information on what file formats will work and what frame rate must be used?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 3:17 pm

Welcome to hyperdeck.. This info is not available for many years now. Which is weird because BMD should just write it out how to render files for hyperdecks.

But check the FAQ for some handles on this: Frequently Asked Questions - Recording >Point 3.01
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostTue Dec 10, 2019 9:01 pm

I have determined it is not the file names, nor the video format. Much trial and error with multiple formats yielded the same results. I can rename files created by the recorder and they show on the switcher with the names of what I renamed.

I believe the problem is the encoding. Not much else left. My software will not encode DNxHD or PRORES 442 (which another company says they use). So I downloaded DaVinci Resolve from BM's website, the free version, which has more than I need. I create the videos using another piece of software which is more inline with my needs. I am bring the resulting videos into DaVinci Resolve and will render those videos using the Final Cut Pro option. That supports Quicktime and the DNxHD codec. Will see how that goes.

It surprising (well maybe not) that BM support is not really up to speed on the Hyperdeck and the file requirements. I have been told to try multiple things, sent the specs from the website, changing the Hyperdeck settings to match the files (how does one do that?) to trying uncompressed Quicktime. That last option may work but support was not certain of that option as they asked me to "try", rather than "do".

Alas, another software package to learn.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostTue Dec 10, 2019 9:21 pm

I opted a few times that they create an export setting in resolve for the hyperdecks.

Should not be very difficult for BMD to do that in there own software. Just choose the Codec, Resolution Framerate and hit render.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 5:24 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:I opted a few times that they create an export setting in resolve for the hyperdecks.

Should not be very difficult for BMD to do that in there own software. Just choose the Codec, Resolution Framerate and hit render.

Yes, that would certainly make life easier except for one thing. Let me explain.

I finally got the video files to show in the Hyperdeck after copying the files to the SSD after some effort. I used Quicktime DNxHD and at first the files would not appear. I guessed, luckily, that I would try changing the recording encoding of the Hyperdeck. I changed it to Quicktime DNxHD and the files finally appeared. The files would play but I got nothing on the switcher. Then it dawned on my that I had the incorrect frame rate of 29.97 rather than 59.94. So I am recreating the files to see if that resolves. Small steps, but progress is being made.

So in answer to the above which setting would BMD use for exporting? There are several supported by the Hyperdeck and apparently they must match the recording settings on the Hyperdeck. Unless they match the files will not appear for playback.

Now I have another question that I have been unable to answer. With two discs in the Hyperdeck how does one switch from one deck to another? If I want the Hyperdeck to change from disc 1 to disc 2, for playback, the only way I have found is to remove the undesired disc. Seems like there must be an easier way to select the disc desired for playback.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 5:31 pm

Normally when recording you hold the record button for a few seconds and it will switch to the other card.. Playback NO idea.. :lol:


About those presets> i'm trying to get it on the list so it will be included.. Please reply in this topic >>
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=97849&p=542976&hilit=hyperdeck#p542852
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Normally when recording you hold the record button for a few seconds and it will switch to the other card.. Playback NO idea.. :lol:

Maybe hold the play button for a few seconds? Wild guess on my part. Or maybe there is some magical incantation along with movements of the arms. Who knows?

The documentation on that deck is really lacking.

I have set the timeline frame rate to 59.97 and the playback rate the same in DaVinci Resolve. Files become huge at 1920x1080 resolution. I am hoping that this finally resolves the issue.
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 7:45 pm

Found this little pearl of wisdom in the manual on page 23.
Setting the recording format also sets the playback format.

Which I was able to confirm. And it also has the quirky attribute of NOT showing files that DO NOT conform to the selected encoding.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 8:23 pm

raythompsontn wrote:Which I was able to confirm. And it also has the quirky attribute of NOT showing files that DO NOT conform to the selected encoding.


This has always been so at BMD.. While Atomos just shows all the files on the disk. And if you pick a file while the recorder is not in that codec. It will switch / reboot to that codec.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 11:19 pm

Well, two steps forward, three steps back. Rendered the videos in QT DNxHD. Files were not recognized by the deck. Check the encoding settings of the deck and they matched. So basically back to square one, maybe square 1.5. I know it is something with the encoding. Some setting in DaVinci Resolve. I changed from 29.97 to 59.94 and files no longer display. But at 29.97 the files will not work with the switcher. Not exactly certain what setting. Certainly sucks with trial and error on this stuff.

Why, oh why has BMD made this so difficult? A simple setting in DaVinci Resolve for the Hyperdeck would certainly make life easier.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 11:43 pm

raythompsontn wrote:Why, oh why has BMD made this so difficult? A simple setting in DaVinci Resolve for the Hyperdeck would certainly make life easier.

Yes VERY difficult. So please post in this topic to vote it up to get those functions in Davinci>>>

Please reply in this topic >>
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=97849&p=542976&hilit=hyperdeck#p542852
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostThu Dec 12, 2019 1:47 pm

I did some more investigating. I recorded a clip on the Hyperdeck then looked at the specifications of the recorded file. This recorded file will play back without issues. It will also show in the clips menu on the ATEM switcher surface.

I got DNxHD 220X 1080I; 29.97 DF FPS; 1920x1080

So next is try and replicate those values in DaVinci Resolve. If so interested, this is everything I could find about the file.

General
Complete name: K:\Capture0000.mov
Format: QuickTime
Format/Info: Original Apple specifications
Commercial name: DNxHD 220x
File size: 921 MiB
Duration: 32 s 432 ms
Overall bit rate: 238 Mb/s
Encoded date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25
Tagged date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25
Writing library: Apple QuickTime

Video
ID: 1
Format: VC-3
Commercial name: DNxHD 220x
Format version: Version 1
Format profile: HD@HQX
Codec ID: AVdn
Codec ID/Info: Avid DNxHD
Duration: 32 s 399 ms
Bit rate mode: Constant
Bit rate: 220 Mb/s
Width: 1 920 pixels
Height: 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate mode: Constant
Frame rate: 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:2
Bit depth: 10 bits
Scan type: Interlaced
Scan order: Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 3.540
Stream size: 850 MiB (92%)
Language: English
Encoded date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25
Tagged date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25

Audio
ID: 2
Format: PCM
Format settings: Little / Signed
Codec ID: lpcm
Duration: 32 s 432 ms
Bit rate mode: Constant
Bit rate: 18.4 Mb/s
Channel(s): 16 channels
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Bit depth: 24 bits
Stream size: 71.3 MiB (8%)
Language: English
Encoded date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25
Tagged date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25

Other
ID: 3
Type: Time code
Format: QuickTime TC
Duration: 32 s 399 ms
Frame rate: 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame: 00:00:00;00
Time code, striped: Yes
Language: English
Encoded date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25
Tagged date: UTC 2000-01-01 22:07:25
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raythompsontn

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostSun Dec 15, 2019 3:10 pm

Some success was made with getting externally created files to display and play. I used the Adobe Premier setting with Quicktime format, DNxHD as the encoding. Video now plays. Audio is completely silent so I must now mess with finding the proper encoding for the audio. That may require choosing a different preset for the video that support Quicktime and DNxHD.

The issue with the sound I believe has to do with the bit width. The default for video setting is 16 bit depth for the sound. The files that are created by the Hyperdeck are 24 bit. So I will recreate the files with 24 bit PCM format and see what happens.

Why, oh why, BMD have you made this so difficult. A simple setting in DaVinci Resolve for BlackMagic, then options for Hyperdeck, that would set the proper encoding for audio and video. The way it is now BMD has a product that does not support another one of their products. Do the development teams live in different caves? Or is management really that clueless?
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raythompsontn

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Hyperdeck File Formats

PostTue Dec 17, 2019 6:17 pm

Finally success in creating a file that will play on the Hyperdeck.

I used QuickTime, DNxHD, at 29.97 FPS, 1080i 220/180/175 10 bit as the video format. Audio was set to 24 bits, 16 channels, PCM. Files were created as MOV files and copied to the SSD that is used in the Hyperdeck. The files now appear in the switcher and on the PC with the ATEM software installed.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostTue Dec 17, 2019 7:01 pm

Well that only took 12 days... :lol: :lol: Would be easier if it was just a preset in resolve.. :roll: :roll:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostTue Dec 17, 2019 8:42 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Well that only took 12 days... :lol: :lol:

It would have taken less physical time if the systems I use were located together. I have been creating the videos at home and the production environment is at my church Thus there were several days with no productivity on the quest.
Would be easier if it was just a preset in resolve
Yes, it would. Or just having BMD specify what is needed to get a externally created file to successfully play on a Hyperdeck.

All support would tell me is to use uncompressed QuickTime. But that is hardly enough information. The frame rate, the resolution, the interlacing, the audio requirements would have been nice to be explained.

There is still the annoying problem of not being able to select which disc drive to use. Only way I have found is to only use one disc and leave the other slot(s) empty. Seems sort of a major oversight on the part of the developers, management, janitor or whomever worked on the project.

I am having to make some adjustments on the audio. The learning curve on DaVinci Resolve is steep and involves a lot of trial and error with program crashes thrown in for entertainment. Such crashes requiring the use of Task Manager to kill a process that does not die when the main program dies.

BMD has made the entire process much too difficult. Not all of us are propeller heads. I am guessing their people don't use their products. Except for pretty pictures in the marketing material.
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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 18, 2019 11:13 am

So you see the need to get those render presets included in resolve right?
Go to the topic underneath here and vote it up. So it will make it in the next few months into resolve. ;)

Xtreemtec wrote:About those presets> i'm trying to get it on the list so it will be included.. Please reply in this topic >>
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=97849&p=542976&hilit=hyperdeck#p542852
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Re: Hyperdeck File Formats

PostWed Dec 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:So you see the need to get those render presets included in resolve right?
Absolutely. In fact the support of BMD products should have been the first choice in Resolve. Why the exclusion, unless a person is willing to play cat and mouse with settings, is not there is bizarre, a downright failure on the part of BMD management. If a company does not directly support their own products, in a product they sell, what are they thinking?

Even support was clueless offering no real help. I got a starting point from another user, one of your comments, then trial and error. Unfortunately I have not found another product that can produce the number of formats and customizing settings the Resolve provides. Unless I am willing to spend thousands of dollars At least the price point of Resolve, for my needs, was good.

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