Video Assist incorrect fps displayed and recorded

I'm trying to connect my Sony NEX-FS100 via HDMI cable to a BMD Video Assist and I'm not able to obtain the correct FPS on the VA (Video Assist 1.1). The FS100 is set to 1080p and 30 fps (29.97). Have tried other frame rates, like 24 fps, but the VA always displays 59.97 fps. I have tried as much as I possibly can and I'm not able to resolve this problem. I also tried the Sony FDR-AX100, the VA always displays and records at 59.97 fps.
I'm at a complete loss at this time and hope someone will be able to shed some light on this.

Thanks,
Dieter

Your problem is your camera. The HDMI output on the Sony FS100, and most other early AVCHD video cameras, including the Panasonic AF100, does not output a true "Progressive" signal, per AbelCine:
"HDMI 1.4 port used on the FS100 outputs uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 or 8-bit RGB signals. Auto negotiation (EDID) takes place when an external recorder and FS100 are initially connected via HDMI and cable. During the EDID exchange, the FS100 and external recorder negotiate the highest quality signal common to the FS100 and recorder. From then on, the FS100 will output the negotiated signal. There is no menu in the camera to force a particular mode.

24P via HDMI
When the camera was made, no HDMI hardware supported native 24p signals. The HDMI specification did not support native 24p either. Instead Sony and let the other video camera makers, added,a 2/3 Pull down to get the HDMI to output what looks like a 50/60 interlaced broadcast standard signal. the HDMI specification instructed that pull-down must be added to 24p signals. Even though the FS100 internally records native 24p, it simultaneously outputs a 60i signal with pull-down via HDMI. As a solution, Sony developed an original method to insert timecode and pull-down markers on the HDMI signal. Timecode allows external recorders to start/ stop and record camera generated time-code. The pull-down marker facilitates externally recording native 24p signals by removing pull-down during"

Now your issue is, at this time the Video Assist does Not remove this 2/3pull down, so the VA sees the signal as a interlaced signal at 59.97 when you have the camera set at 1080p30, which only controls the camera's recording mode. The 2/3 pull down splits the progressive frame into two parts, doubling the output frame rate, which is what the VA sees, 1080i59.97 (NTSC broadcast standard)

Hopefully, BM will add the 2/3 pull down removal in a future firmware update. Meanwhile, you can go on the BM site and request it as a product update request. The VA does do a 24/25 PSF removal,in its SDI input. Another,option is to get a HDMI/SDI converter like the Atomos Connect It, which will do the 2/3 pull down removal, this will piggy back on your camera battery, and convert the FS100 HDMI output to a 24/30 progressive signal out the converter's SDI output to the VA to give you a 1080p24/30 recording on the VA.

Denny,
Thank you very much for your very detailed explanation, it is greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately I won't be able to use the VA as a recorder at this time on the FS100!

Thanks again,

Dieter

No, but one can hope BM adds the 2/3 Pulldown conversion on a future firmware update to the VA.
But, that said, you can still record rhe 2/3 60i signal, and use your editing software or a third party plug in to remove,the 2/3 pulldown, and convert the file back to a 1080p24 file.
Cheers

Reviving an old post. Has BM address the issue? Can we get AX100 to work nicely and VA to record the signal?

Thanks,
Alex

No, he VAs does not have a 2/3 pull down removal, only the PSF pull down correction back to 1080p24 on the SDI input only. If your camera outputs a 2/3 pull down interlaced signal, then that is what the VA will record. You can however, remove the pull down in post with Resolve or Premier, and other NLEs.
Cheers

Updating the thread with some information from my personal testing. When plugging in the VA to AX100, on the top left corner of VA it says 1080p @ 59.94. I recorded footage onto a newly purchased SanDisk SD card (which I had to buy new since all the other SD cards wouldn't work in VA ). Anyhow, when I dropped the footage into FCP x or even After Effect, results were stunning. I could drop the green screen very easily. And the quality was amazing! Btw, on the VA im recording ProRes HQ.


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Good, shows what even a 8-bit 4.2.0 signal can be improved on by recording in ProRes. The AX100 seems to output a 1080p60 signal also. For less money (AX100 is around $2K) you can get even better results with a BM Micro Studio camera and the VA, getting a down sampled UHD to HD 1080p24-60fps 10-bit 4.2.2 signal, for even more stunning color. And you have a clean signal out SDI and HDMI for camera monitoring.
DS

Denny, I believe it's 8-bit 4.2.2. And yes it does do 60fps. I am only trying to make it work because the AX100 cost me only $600, and the VA was donated to my church. I'm hoping to save enough money and sell the AX100 for GH4 or the Micro Studio.


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Denny, I believe it's 8-bit 4.2.2. And yes it does do 60fps. I am only trying to make it work because the AX100 cost me only $600, and the VA was donated to my church. I'm hoping to save enough money and sell the AX100 for GH4 or the Micro Studio.
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It might output 4.2.2, but the specs in the camera lists it as a 8-bit, 4.2.0 camera. But either way, glad it os working for you. If you have enough light, get the Micro Studio, as it is a camera you can grow with, if you add additional cameras and live switching. The GH4 is a nice camera, but not an easy camera to setup and use, especially with an external recorder. To get 10-bit, 4.2.2 output on the GH4, internal recoding is disabled, and output set to 1080px frame rate. Not sure the GH4 does 60fps externally either.

The color saturation with the Micro Studio is excellent, but it takes light, native ISO is 100-200, where as the Micro Cinema is ISO 800, but colors are not as saturated looking, as the Micro Cinema is designed to be recorded and image edited in post, which works great, but post workflow is more involved.
Cheers