Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

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Robert Horwood

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Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostSun Feb 05, 2017 7:55 pm

Hello

I have to begin by saying that I'm technically hopeless. All the same I'm considering investing in a MiniRecorder which - if I buy it - I would plan to use in conjunction with VirtualDub to capture from VHS tapes to AVI (the pro-level software listed on your website being way above my level and way beyond my simple needs - and VDub is free!).

The thing is I happen to own a ShootView ADC 271 which has lain idle for a year or so, so why not put it to some good use? So I've been trying to puzzle out whether its SDI output is compatible with the MiniRecoder's SDI input.

The MiniRecorder spec says "SDI Compliance SMPTE 259M and 292M". The ShootView website just says "Outputs 2 x 270Mbps SDI" which (if I understand correctly) conforms with SMPTE 259M.

Does this mean that the two are compatible, straight out of the box?

In case it's of any interest, I'm running Windows 10 on a Skylake processor (Core i3 6100).
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Robert Horwood

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostSat Feb 11, 2017 5:57 pm

I joined this forum, and posted, on the assumption that the Blackmagic company supports it and that therefore a novice like me would gain access to a source of expert, professional, knowledge. When clearance for my first post came from Blackmagic Design that seemed to confirm that assumption.

However, it doesn't seem to work that way.

Either my question was deemed so dumb as not to merit an answer, or no one in BlackMagic is able to answer it - which seems pretty improbable.

Or is more information needed from me? It would be nice to know....
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Tony Rivera

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 14, 2017 12:37 am

The forums are built around the premise of support/guidance from other users here, with the occasional employee signing on to assist. As the product you're speaking about is a third party product, there has not been any testing done with this to my knowledge so speaking on the compatibility of it with our product would be this: If the product outputs a format that is supported by our device, it's anticipated it would work. As mentioned above, maybe there are other users on the forums here that can be of assistance to you in regards to this other product and what success they've had with it and our products together.
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Robert Horwood

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 14, 2017 11:46 am

@Tony

Thanks for replying.

I actually never anticipated that the ShootView product was as rare as it now seems it is. I came by it almost accidentally and just made the naive assumption that - ShootView's products being aimed at the professional market - many professionals would know about it and a few might have used it. Evidently that's not the case.

It would be stupid to lay out >£140 on a BlackMagic MiniRecorder only to find that it won't accept my ADC's SDI output. So unless someone on this forum who has one, or who is familiar with it, happens to read this thread and chimes in I think I just have to abandon any thought of buying the MiniRecorder.
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Robert Horwood

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am

Tony Rivera wrote:The forums are built around the premise of support/guidance from other users here.... As mentioned above, maybe there are other users on the forums here that can be of assistance to you in regards to this other product and what success they've had with it and our products together.
Almost exactly a year having elapsed since my last post in this thread, I guess I have to assume that no response is ever going to be forthcoming from this forum.

A disappointment - and I continue to find that surprising - but so be it.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 12:43 pm

I just checked the specs of that shootview.. It outputs SD-SDI standard. Which should be just compatible with the Minirecorder.

One issue i see coming is that the Shootview will not be able to track the VHS recorders propperly as i see nowhere mentioned that it has a TBC (Time Base Corrector) inside. And most VTR's the tracking is not that good.. Especially with older tapes..

So what probably will happen is a flickering video / frames..
See >> for more information https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=56262
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Andrew Martin

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 1:04 pm

It seems Daniel has beaten me to a reply..

But I was also going to add ....

As ur post is near 12months old.....
A. I don't generally hunt back through old posts, unless I'm researching something myself for info.
So bumping it every now and again would of brought it back into a current post. As of now.

B. After 12months your own research might have given you an answer found elsewhere.
If me I would of contacted the manufacturer of the product you are using directly or via their forum, if they have one and asked there if their product has compatibility with a BMD minirecorder.
As you would have more chance in an answer from those using the same shootview product.


A.
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Robert Horwood

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 1:50 pm

Thank you both for your replies.

@Andrew Martin:- I accept the (implied) rebuke: you are of course quite right! The fact is that because I was dubious about the value I would be likely to get out of an outlay of around £140, lacking any positive reassurance my interest in acquiring the BM product waned pretty sharply and has remained dormant. I agree of course that it was always open to me (still is) to contact the manufacturer, but there's no real substitute for users' first-hand experience, which was/is what I was seeking to hear about.

@Xtreemtec
One issue i see coming is that the Shootview will not be able to track the VHS recorders propperly as i see nowhere mentioned that it has a TBC (Time Base Corrector) inside. And most VTR's the tracking is not that good.. Especially with older tapes..
I ought to mention that the VCR I'm using to capture from (a JVC HR-S8850EK) has JVC's "digipure" system which includes a line TBC and NR. May I ask you whether in the light of that you would nevertheless still anticipate those issues with the Shootview? The tapes I'm converting date mostly from the '80s and '90s and were recorded from broadcasts, many of them (I'm ashamed to admit) with 'LP' activated.
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Robert Horwood

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 2:12 pm

@Xtreemtec

This quote (from Colin Barrett in the thread you linked-to)
Yes, I agree. I have lots of VCRs of all flavours - professional, semi-pro and consumer - and although some of them have what their manufacturers like to call "internal TBCs" they're just not as robust as you'd assume. The thing here is that all - yes all - Blackmagic video capture devices are totally incapable of digitising incoming analogue video signals from VCRs without full reclocking by broadcast-grade TBCS. I use Snell & Wilcox Kudos and For-A devices in line and they're the only products that can present my various Blackmagic devices with the signal stability and pre-processing they require.
would appear to be the definitive answer to the question I posed to you.

I ought to have read that thread first :oops:

Colin is very categorical in what he says about the demands made by all BM capture devices. Do you share his view?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 7:51 pm

I'm not too much into the old VCR stuff.. ( Running 4K broadcast company :lol: )

But i knew that with VCR's and capturing there can be big issues due to tracking.. Analog video signals in the days had a whole different sync to TV's were it did not matter if that would deviate a bit.. But with current hardware it suspects a clean sync signal..

But Colin could anwser this best..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Denny Smith

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 6:04 am

Yes, I also have a Snell & Wilcox Kudos to get a stable revlock if analog video tapes. VHS tapes ate the worst for not having a stable click sync signal, even with “ Pro” series VCRs that are supposed to have a “clean” output. A brand new VHS tape playback is average at best, remember this was a consumer format, that was played into CRT TV/monitors, that could deal with a sloppy signal. Even my Betacam tapes need an external broadcast type TBS, even when played on a pro Sony deck with internal TBC.

As time goes by, old tapes have signal drop out issues which also play havoc with the time code sync.
If you want the best results results without jitter or black breaks in the signal, get a good external TBC like the Kudos.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Robert Horwood

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Re: Compatibility of MiniRecorder with ShootView ADC

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 10:21 am

Many thanks for all those responses! Most informative.

My conclusion (for what it's worth, as a rank amateur, barely even a hobbyist) is that my best course is to persevere with the setup I'm using. My tapes, despite their age, seem in fair shape for the most part and the resulting conversions to digital are - just about - "watchable". I suspect that even if I could afford to fork-out for a pro-level standalone such as a Kudos, on top of the price of a BM DecklLnk Mini Recorder - which quite honestly I can't - the ultimate end-result wouldn't be likely to be so much better than what I'm seeing now as to justify the outlay - given the low quality of VHS tapes as a medium and the less-than-expert level of my "recording technique".

Thanks though for all the help.

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