What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

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ricardo marty

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What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 pm

I would line a new video assist with braw that could Work with my Sony fs700.

And something fantastic for DR.

A good inexpensive evf for my bmp4k

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Last edited by ricardo marty on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 11:11 pm

Micro 4K with global shutter
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Denny Smith

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 11:43 pm

Well nice ideas, both. But BRaw from my understanding and previous discussions is sensor specific, and needs to be installed and tuned for the camera sensor, which is why their is a delay in getting BRaw on the new Pocket 4K and UM 4.6. BRaw on a Si y ca era is not likely possible, as Sony would need to license BRaw and install it in the camera, like SLog is. So a VA is not going to be able to run BRaw.

What might be possible, is get a VA with ProRes Raw implemented, as this is not sensor specific, and can be implemented just like ProRes HD, etc.

Cheers
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ChrisWarren

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 12:01 am

There is a few things I'd like to see from BMD. My biggest want is a modular EVF. I am not a fan of their current mount, but LOVE the EVF.

Other wishlist items would be more camera AKS.
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Adam Langdon

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 2:37 am

I'd be interesting to see some peripherals, like Follow Focus, wireless video, etc.

But i'm REALLY interested in seeing if Rokinon will deliver an anamorphic lens for the budget market. Those Atlas Orion's are really nice, but still unobtainable for me.
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ricardo marty

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 2:44 am

Denny Smith wrote:Well nice ideas, both. But BRaw from my understanding and previous discussions is sensor specific, and needs to be installed and tuned for the camera sensor, which is why their is a delay in getting BRaw on the new Pocket 4K and UM 4.6.


Sensor specific when its is a camera, in externals recorder it could be something else. If BMD did an external recorder with Braw (or a special version of braw) im sure it will sell like hotcakes making braw available to almost every camera out here and taking DR up with it.

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John Brawley

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 4:47 am

ricardo marty wrote: If BMD did an external recorder with Braw (or a special version of braw) im sure it will sell like hotcakes making braw available to almost every camera out here and taking DR up with it.


There's no point doing BRAW from encoded video, so how do you get RAW out of the Sony, as opposed to SDI log video ?

You record ARRI RAW on an Odyssey 7Q for example when recording from an Alexa, or you record Sony RAW with the same recorder. Or you record ProRes but you don't get the RAW functions.


JB
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Denny Smith

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 6:32 am

ChrisWarren wrote:There is a few things I'd like to see from BMD. My biggest want is a modular EVF. I am not a fan of their current mount, but LOVE the EVF.
Other wishlist items would be more camera AKS.


Simple, you get the current BM EVF and perform the Wooden Camera mod to it and get this:
https://www.adorama.com/wc217400.html


Cheers
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 7:00 am

How about a cable or adapter to fit the mini-XLR port?
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timbutt2

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 3:56 pm

I've written before on previous threads about what I want to see camera wise. To sum up again:

URSA Mini Pro V2:
• 4.6K Sensor in 1.33:1 configuration cropping to 1.78:1 for 4,608x2,592
• 120 FPS at full 4.6K sensor
• Faster Rolling Shutter Readout
• 17 Stops of Dynamic Range
• Wireless Video Module Add-On Similar to the SSD Recorder, but is Wireless Video Transmitter

Next I want to see a Blackmagic Audio Recorder. This is for production audio, and I would love if it could sync wirelessly with the URSA Mini Pro V2 seamlessly. Connect the two via wireless so timecode matches, and metadata is shared between the two.

Blackmagic Wireless Follow Focus & Video Assist V2 with ability to control camera metadata via Bluetooth/Wireless. Use the two in combination and you can pull focus while monitoring and controlling that metadata. Video Assist V2 has built in Wireless Receiver to get signal from the Blackmagic Wireless Video Transmitter Add-On.

Obviously I'm super excited for DaVinci Resolve 16. I'd love to see the usual expansion of editing features, Fusion VFX features, Fairlight Audio Features, Color Features, etc. One thing I'd love is better integration with Cinema 4D so that you can easily bring materials over from Cinema 4D. Even doing that for Maya would get me to switch to Maya. Overall, I just want an easier 3D workflow from those apps for when building a lot in them. Additionally I'd love to be able to have text wrapping be possible inside Fusion. So create a text box that when the text reaches the boundary it automatically drops it to the next line.

Those are some things, but above all else I know Blackmagic Design will surprise us. I just hope that Blackmagic RAW is out for the URSA Mini 4.6K before then, even though I've got ideas on what I want for the next camera.
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Craig Sawyer

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 9:32 pm

I would like to see a proper proxy workflow when using say the UMP and a Video Assist together. Being able to record RAW to the UMP, with ProRes 1080 proxies to the VA, but with the same filenames for a proper offline / online workflow.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 9:39 pm

Doesn’t BRaw kind of eliminate the need for proxies? All you need to do t match thenVa recordings, is to feed the TC out the SDI to the VA, and it should record the TC as well, and enable a TC sync up later?
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Craig Sawyer

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 10:09 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Doesn’t BRaw kind of eliminate the need for proxies? All you need to do t match thenVa recordings, is to feed the TC out the SDI to the VA, and it should record the TC as well, and enable a TC sync up later?
Cheers


For our sins we still use Premiere for editing (we use Team Projects extensively), with resolve for grading. Not sure how time code sync without matching filenames would work in that scenario. We also do quite a few shoots overseas so if I could WeTransfer low res proxies to the studio straight from the VA so they can crack on with the edit, then we could link it all back up when the master footage gets back to the UK that would be awesome. I also like to do my string outs and selects while flying, so proxies are great in that scenario.

With BRAW just for resolve at the moment, whilst it’s awesome to work with it just doesn’t fit our current set up. Perhaps this is still all possible using TC and not relying on file names. I’m just used to this workflow with RED cams where we can record R3D and proxies with same file names, makes things nice and simple :)
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 7:14 am

I'm hoping that BMD will expand its monitor line to incorporate HDR. :)

A 4K HDR monitor with a DCI-P3 color gamut would be awesome if BMD pulls it off with its usual pricing voodoo. :)
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 9:40 am

Thin pocket 4k+

Micro 4k and 8k, both thin.

Pocket 8k.

Mini 8k.

Multiple channel (4+ 4k+) video assist with over wire camera and lens control. WiFi blutooth remote view control and recording. Braw recording using Bayer pixel packed in 4:2:2 data stream. Compact and thin. Something better than Space X's BFR.

Rec 2020/Rec2100 reference TV and monitor for $2000. Laser projector version 8k for $2000.

Black magic braw camera phone.

Black magic braw 8k lens camera head for use with video assist and phone.

Ability to cheaply turn dirt into gold, with me as the sole recipient (Hey, you didn't say it couldn't be unrealistic!).
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timbutt2

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 1:13 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:I'm hoping that BMD will expand its monitor line to incorporate HDR. :)

A 4K HDR monitor with a DCI-P3 color gamut would be awesome if BMD pulls it off with its usual pricing voodoo. :)

I second this!
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 3:14 pm

i want to see a $10,000 camera...

id love to see a body insanely sturdy like arri mini... similar form factor, I'm down with a new sensor if they went bigger fine, or dual asa sensor fine. make the camera have higher fps without windowing, need minimum 120. id say lose the built in screen. PLEASE MAKE ALL 1/4" solid, can't say how often i tighten the 1/4" to movi plate and it strips the plastic around the port and then never sets flat again... i barely put power into it. ( im sure its happened to others, you hear a pop) make a more solid battery plate, mine micro wiggles around with a heavy battery. make a less proprietary evf... just upgrade the ursa mini pro... you guys have great color now. the current camera is a bit long for gimbal work if i put large lenses on ( tokina vista primes ) just make it feel like a tank like arris, id gladly pay an extra 5k for that.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 5:59 pm

FrankApollonio wrote:i want to see a $10,000 camera...

id love to see a body insanely sturdy like arri mini... similar form factor, I'm down with a new sensor if they went bigger fine, or dual asa sensor fine. make the camera have higher fps without windowing, need minimum 120. id say lose the built in screen. PLEASE MAKE ALL 1/4" solid, can't say how often i tighten the 1/4" to movi plate and it strips the plastic around the port and then never sets flat again... i barely put power into it. ( im sure its happened to others, you hear a pop) make a more solid battery plate, mine micro wiggles around with a heavy battery. make a less proprietary evf... just upgrade the ursa mini pro... you guys have great color now. the current camera is a bit long for gimbal work if i put large lenses on ( tokina vista primes ) just make it feel like a tank like arris, id gladly pay an extra 5k for that.


This may actually be a good idea, but for a different reason. I say a $30,000 camera, this way BMD can really compete with RED, Arri, Sony in that part of the market. Additionally, it can also legitimize the little guy (people like us). When the next Marvel movie is shot using the Blackmagic Goliath, we can go to a shoot saying that we're shooting Blackmagic and get the same response someone with a Red Raven would get. All they have to say is that they shoot Red and they're golden. If BMD builds a high end camera I think it could do the same for us.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 7:38 pm

It's a lot more than that. Except a custom application specific circuit (which I've argued can be done cheap by making one to go into many other products in their range) and better custom sensor tech, they can do it in their high prices already. I'm going lay it down further, good quality maybe cheaper than handling customer returns due to issues.

Now, let's reality check. Red's sensor performance suddenly seem to line up with Sony sensor performance for a while. Apparently they were supposedly involved with a loud group I knew using micron sensors (Aptina) not the quiet groups. Which has been the problem in the industry which BM solved a lot. Their chief said he would reveal who their sensor was from, and other things over the years, but I have heard nothing. At a similar time as the similar performance, there was a cross licensing agreement between Sony and Micron/Aptina. Micron had crucial low energy high speed sensor process technology which Sony needed. Also, there had been a patent case against Sony by Red to do with doing raw compression 4k and above I believe which was resolved (which I would like to find out about, as I remember when David invented cineform raw and things like raw at 4k you are not supposed to be able to patent. Now, I remember a cuneiform encoder circuit being made talked about, which disappeared, before Redcode changed and got similar sorts of performance expectations to cineform raw). Aptina then rolled in with other American sensor companies into a single company. Red has said they now have their own sensor ovens likely leased or owned, and maybe at the sensor company. This would allow them to have a deal to use their technology, with their technology and design, and avoid being caught up with any lingering cross licensing agreements, or supply issues, with collapse or change of ownership and even be a major shareholder.

So, using Sony technology you could get similar performance to Red (but a stop or two less now given their own development). However, notice the slow down on the consumer side of the once Aptina who had a major chunk of the consumer camera market, and Sony seems to have better for their cameras, I expect Sony, has what they wanted. Maybe we will see something better then the 4.6k this year in areas other than low light, and something better again on Sony cameras. This is the world I see in the background which affects what quality a company can get access too.

So, yes, you can get structural quality, reliability, a consumer sensor improvement, and a custom low energy high performance circuit (or just use a volume third party solution, even mobile phone chip) at current prices. No greedy $10k-30k.

Take a step back again. As a high volume product, such a product could be done for $1000. As a low volume product, $4k is OK. Do you really think the Mini is really worth that much more than the pocket in features or performance? It makes ts own point, yet is not even a higher volume cheaper to make design like $299-$799 m4/3rd cameras. Some companies just want to take your money from your wallet though. Give me companies that live in modest mansions rather than over doing their wealth. I live in a country which is backwards from attitudes of doing less for more. BM is a rarity for trying to do quality volume at reasonable prices.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 12:57 am

Que Thompson wrote:
This may actually be a good idea, but for a different reason. I say a $30,000 camera, this way BMD can really compete with RED, Arri, Sony in that part of the market.


Why should they ? Serious question.

They have already done a high end camera, that was a giant failure, the original Ursa.

No one bought it. It was too heavy (even though it was lighter than an Alexa) and it was designed to be 4K+ upgradeable. It tanked big time.

Same as the AJA Cion....

The most popular cameras (and profitable) for BMD have been the original pocket and the Pocket 4K.

That big end of town is in reality, tiny. The market for 30K cameras would be at best in the few hundred worldwide. Meanwhile they're shipping many many thousands of cameras in the smaller categories, giving a market that have NEVER had access to RAW and ProRes high DR low cost cinema cameras. That's their M.O. That's their DNA, not competing with the big end of town, which is a tiny tiny low value part of the market.

JB
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 5:16 am

The Ursa was a solution that would have been good in 2006 as cutting edge. It was to take better sensors, then there was some issue and that didn't come either. So John's right, though I would imagine that Red sales above $7k are probably tens of thousands and less than 100,000, for the last 13 YEARS, and likely not be the best anymore. There is so much stuff floating around out there it infringes in new sales. Secondhand cameras land up in competitors hands, making the new higher end cameras harder to sell. I imagine that was an idea behind the upgrade program, where you could gave been more environmentally friendly reselling your old unit. Less secondhand units in the market mame it more easy to sell new cameras, and the price went up. Now with the Nikon 7 outputting raw, competition is heating up. BM's $995-$3995 strategy paid off. As long as you can male them great video cameras and PR video cameras the market is bigger and turn over can be busy. At $1000 if it breaks in 5 years, you buy the latest most model (I want to last over 10 years though).
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 6:50 am

John Brawley wrote:
Que Thompson wrote:
This may actually be a good idea, but for a different reason. I say a $30,000 camera, this way BMD can really compete with RED, Arri, Sony in that part of the market.


Why should they ? Serious question.

They have already done a high end camera, that was a giant failure, the original Ursa.

No one bought it. It was too heavy (even though it was lighter than an Alexa) and it was designed to be 4K+ upgradeable. It tanked big time.

Same as the AJA Cion....

The most popular cameras (and profitable) for BMD have been the original pocket and the Pocket 4K.

That big end of town is in reality, tiny. The market for 30K cameras would be at best in the few hundred worldwide. Meanwhile they're shipping many many thousands of cameras in the smaller categories, giving a market that have NEVER had access to RAW and ProRes high DR low cost cinema cameras. That's their M.O. That's their DNA, not competing with the big end of town, which is a tiny tiny low value part of the market.

JB


They probably wouldn’t. It was just a thought that crossed my mind after reading a previous post. You have much clearer insight to that world than I do. It just seems like everybody has a RED but me, lol. So I assume they are selling.


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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 7:18 am

Que Thompson wrote:They probably wouldn’t. It was just a thought that crossed my mind after reading a previous post. You have much clearer insight to that world than I do. It just seems like everybody has a RED but me, lol. So I assume they are selling.


From what I've read and watched, most people rent the RED, Arri etc, few actually own one or the other.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 10:13 am

Somebody said a few years back, that there were twice as many Red cameras than needed to film everything in the world. This eaa to do with rental houses buying up big. But it does give thought, a pocket rig for practice a weapon monstro rental for high end jobs (a bit of a joke at how you seemingly can rent higher end cameras for similar prices to significantly cheaper cameras).
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 11:05 am

Australian Image wrote:
Que Thompson wrote:They probably wouldn’t. It was just a thought that crossed my mind after reading a previous post. You have much clearer insight to that world than I do. It just seems like everybody has a RED but me, lol. So I assume they are selling.


From what I've read and watched, most people rent the RED, Arri etc, few actually own one or the other.


Actually many people own RED's, they are the owner operator's camera.

The initially low buy in price appeals to many aspirational shooters. Those that don't make a living from movies but want to make movies.

Thus giving rise to the "red dongle" phenomena / meme. (someone that owns a RED and rents it out)

You can get a camera that can make a picture and shoot for not much more than 5 figures, but of course, once you start adding the accessories you really need it quickly escalates from there.

The RED ecosystem pushes you towards upgrades and that's fine too as long as your work and career support that.

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 7:07 pm

John Brawley wrote:Thus giving rise to the "red dongle" phenomena / meme. (someone that owns a RED and rents it out)


The "red dongle" is that person who markets and rents a Red, and whose participation in production consists mostly of taking care of the camera. They prey on clueless producer/directors who don't know anything about filmmaking, and basically serve as a security appendage for the camera. Hence the "dongle" monicker.

One thing you'll notice about those folks is that they usually have a "portfolio" that features gear rather than footage...

My best clients didn't even know what kind of camera I owned until pre-production. They hired me based on my work -- that's how it should be.

If you're primarily looking to rent your camera, a Red is a better choice than a Black Magic, but if you're primarily looking to make movies, it shouldn't make any difference if your work is good.

That said, Black Magic cameras DO have a reputation for quality, so even though you won't be able to get much rental revenue from them, they're not going to impede you from getting hired by anyone who actually cares about making films.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 10:12 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Thus giving rise to the "red dongle" phenomena / meme. (someone that owns a RED and rents it out)


The "red dongle" is that person who markets and rents a Red, and whose participation in production consists mostly of taking care of the camera. They prey on clueless producer/directors who don't know anything about filmmaking, and basically serve as a security appendage for the camera. Hence the "dongle" monicker.

One thing you'll notice about those folks is that they usually have a "portfolio" that features gear rather than footage...

My best clients didn't even know what kind of camera I owned until pre-production. They hired me based on my work -- that's how it should be.

If you're primarily looking to rent your camera, a Red is a better choice than a Black Magic, but if you're primarily looking to make movies, it shouldn't make any difference if your work is good.

That said, Black Magic cameras DO have a reputation for quality, so even though you won't be able to get much rental revenue from them, they're not going to impede you from getting hired by anyone who actually cares about making films.
ive actually been told that certain clients dont trust blackmagic because they had a job lose all the footage so that whole production conpany will not use a blackmagic camera. I think they used ******* cards. Bc thats never happen to me before. And alot of people own arri/red/ lenses. Seems more owners than rental houses now... which has made kitsplit and sharegrid a thing
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 10:38 pm

FrankApollonio wrote:ive actually been told that certain clients dont trust blackmagic because they had a job lose all the footage so that whole production conpany will not use a blackmagic camera. I think they used ******* cards.


Someone has managed to blame the camera for their own poor practices. And to be honest, as a client, I'd be less likely to trust the production crew after such an episode.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 09, 2019 11:31 pm

If you specifically "lost footage" I don't see how that could possibly the camera's fault. What, the camera just deleted the files on its own? Never heard of that legitimately happening with any camera before.

My hunch is that there was a either a storage issue such as compatibility which wasn't checked beforehand, bum storage media that wasn't checked to see if the footage "stuck," or an operator deleted the footage through mishandling. Either way, usually this kind of thing can be checked prior to shooting or right after getting shots. Maybe that's old school, checking if recordings "stuck," but I still do this with every shoot.

I would bet that you've got a production group or operator passing their human error onto the camera to save face and maintain the client or a boss, but I wasn't there, I just have "theories."

That said....

I'd like BMD to roll out some software for Android and wireless options for viewing... a compact HDMI dongle or something that can wifi the signal. If I could transmit a HD/720P or heck even a 480p image to my phone from my pocket 4k, that would be awesome for me when doing interviews. Then I wouldn't have to get those much larger/expensive wireless kits or have to tether to the camera via HDMI for doing short interviews. I know that's not at all exciting, but I'd love it.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 12:44 am

Micro Cinema Camera 4K ;)

FrankApollonio wrote: ive actually been told that certain clients dont trust blackmagic because they had a job lose all the footage so that whole production conpany will not use a blackmagic camera.

Just another case of people mishandling media. Somebody doesn't eject a card nicely, somebody else plugs it into a reader and initializes it because they don't know what that means.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 4:39 am

Quality, is you make a system where this doesn't happen. The camera queries the card to see if its on the approved list, the camera tests the card to see if it is near,(thermal changes reduces performance) ir great otherwise rejects recording on the card in modes it can't handle. It brings up fault lights during recording. The system makes sure the card is ready to pass off as much as possible at any time. People are warned about good and bad equipment (such as that card reader issues destroying footage). Many people don't know what quality really is
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostFri Jan 11, 2019 12:10 am

I would line a new video assist with braw that could Work with my Sony fs700.


I'd swap the 'FS700' for my Aja Cion, but otherwise, 100% agree, Braw on a Video Assist that can handle the output from other brands of camera, even without it being Debayered for display on the V.A.'s screen, would be fantastic.

Use the screen to display the MetaData and a graph of the recording speed or buffer fill state, I'll do exposure via the HDMI outputs :D

I can get raw output at DCI-4K at 120fps, I just can't record it without a PC and PCI Card that cost more then the camera!

A BMD V.A. that does Braw at 24, 25, 30 FPS for DCI-4K for a single SDI 3G input, at a price of around US$1200, using NVMe M.2 drives as media, would be my absolute wish.

One with four 3G SDI inputs that can handle DCI-4K at 120 fps to a raid of NVMe drives,. That'd be a hot seller at US$2000
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Valentin Remy

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostFri Jan 11, 2019 5:19 pm

B RAW for the Ursa Mini 4.6k available straight away, that's what I want them to announce :D
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 9:01 am

I would like BMD to announce a true successor to the BMPCC.

- A similar form factor to the original, possibly even smaller
- A genuine hour battery life
- A mechanism to lock immovably in place lenses/adapters
- Compatibility with metabones speedboosters
- Timecode generation
- Brighter screen and ideally flip-out
- USB-C power and data connection (with Thunderbolt 3)
- Possibly less of a crop
Last edited by benaston on Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 12:35 pm

John Brawley wrote:
They have already done a high end camera, that was a giant failure, the original Ursa.

No one bought it. It was too heavy (even though it was lighter than an Alexa) and it was designed to be 4K+ upgradeable. It tanked big time.

Same as the AJA Cion....


As probably the only Cion owner posting here, the only person with one available for hire in Melbourne, and one of the Admins of the Cion User Group, I have to reject that statement completely.

The Cion did not 'fail' for the same reasons as the URSA, it failed because the people who were given them to review had No Idea how to shoot with a camera that has Linear sensor output available.

They treated it the same way as they would when shooting on a Log based camera, and it shows up in their sample footage, certainly when viewed by every owner of a Cion.

Sadly for the rest of us, these so called experts make proclamations based on their 'knowledge and experience' that too many people are willing to accept without checking or doing their own research.

As for the Ursa, it's failures were pointed out before it went on sale - Too many screens using too much power in too heavy a body.
The mere existence of the Ursa Mini shows that the customers didn't want something that big, with that many screens, and the existence of the BMD Viewfinder after customer demand for a quality viewfinder, proves the concept of putting a massive fold out screen on the left side of the body was always stupid.

The button layout of the Ursa Mini Pro shows BMD listened to the feedback for the Ursa and the Ursa Mini, and finally gave the buyers exactly what they wanted, a scaled down ENG body with S35 sensor.

Now, the feedback is all about opening up Braw to other manufacturers cameras, lets all just hope that Aja, Arri, Canon, JVC, Panasonic, Red, Sharp, Sony, etc are listening too.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 12:44 pm

An Aside on Reputations...

Red's is that they fail without warning, just not switching on - I've personally observed this one too.

BMD's 'poor' rep in some quarters isn't from lost footage or the camera failing, it's the Fixed Pattern Noise, and the Purple Fringing issues, followed by the Rolling Shutter when you go handheld.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 1:12 pm

That the geezers who went to trade shows and pointed out that the form factor of the original BMD cameras were impractical and needed to be more like the ENG and studio cameras already on the market because many years of research and development in the field had already been done, were correct. :roll:

Hence the Ursa Mini Pro and Ursa Broadcast.

We may smell odd but we have been there and actually done it for a very long time. :?

Take that sports lovers! :x

And,............. get off my lawn!
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 6:46 pm

benaston wrote:I would like BMD to announce a true successor to the BMPCC.

- A similar form factor to the original, possibly even smaller
- A genuine hour battery life
- A mechanism to lock immovably in place lenses/adapters
- Compatibility with metabones speedboosters
- Timecode generation
- Brighter screen and ideally flip-out
- USB-C power and data connection (with Thunderbolt 3)
- Possibly less of a crop


That ship has sailed, and BM did, it is the Micro Cinema Camera, less the screen, which allow you to choose one you like.
Next, there is no locking MFT mount, which is controlled by the MFT Association, but using a cage like the Wooden Camera Cage and it’s replacement foot for the Metsbones Speed Booster (BMPCC specific model) which fastens the SB or WC PL mount to the cage, effectively locking the MFT mount.

Last year, BM has stated, “that they are Not developing any more HD cameras”, and didn’t have a Pocket 4K Camera in an original, or close, form factor, as they could not source a suitable S16 UHD/4K sensor that gave them the same cinematic look as the original Pocket Camera. Then BM released this year the new Pocket 4K, a combined replacement for both the BMCC and BMPCC, and that is the rest of the story...
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 10:10 pm

Stewart Fairweather wrote:As probably the only Cion owner posting here, the only person with one available for hire in Melbourne, and one of the Admins of the Cion User Group, I have to reject that statement completely.

The Cion did not 'fail' for the same reasons as the URSA, it failed because the people who were given them to review had No Idea how to shoot with a camera that has Linear sensor output available.

They treated it the same way as they would when shooting on a Log based camera, and it shows up in their sample footage, certainly when viewed by every owner of a Cion.

Sadly for the rest of us, these so called experts make proclamations based on their 'knowledge and experience' that too many people are willing to accept without checking or doing their own research.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 10:11 pm

Leon Benzakein wrote:That the geezers who went to trade shows and pointed out that the form factor of the original BMD cameras were impractical and needed to be more like the ENG and studio cameras already on the market because many years of research and development in the field had already been done, were correct. :roll:

Hence the Ursa Mini Pro and Ursa Broadcast.

We may smell odd but we have been there and actually done it for a very long time. :?

Take that sports lovers! :x

And,............. get off my lawn!
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 10:20 pm

benaston wrote:I would like BMD to announce a true successor to the BMPCC.

- A similar form factor to the original, possibly even smaller
- A genuine hour battery life
- A mechanism to lock immovably in place lenses/adapters
- Compatibility with metabones speedboosters
- Timecode generation
- Brighter screen and ideally flip-out
- USB-C power and data connection (with Thunderbolt 3)
- Possibly less of a crop


Don't worry about the objectors. What about a thin 4k micro cinema recording head with a combined handle, screen battery module, for basically similar shape and size? BM unlikely is going do another pocket until they are replacing the 4k. Having a new micro with a larger handheld module is a way around it. A new micro itself could be handheld with screen, and simply a dumb control battery handle expand it. The lack of true screen option put me off the original, or a on device recording screen option in the studio. We got the pocket 4k instead eventually. :)
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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John Brawley

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 4:33 am

Stewart Fairweather wrote:The Cion did not 'fail' for the same reasons as the URSA, it failed because the people who were given them to review had No Idea how to shoot with a camera that has Linear sensor output available.


Cion did "Standard" which was their take on REC 709 (aka VIDEO), Cine, which was their version of LOG (Aka FILM) and it Linear if I recall....I think they added some more gamma modes later ?

I don't recall anyone having issues dealing with it because it was linear ? I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.

Even their own demo footage is kinda weird. Or maybe not if you like magenta in skin tones...


It also failed to deliver the specs that were promised did it not ? (RAW ? HS ?)

It had a very limited DR for a camera costing more than 5 figures. Even when they almost halved the price STILL no one would buy it.

There wasn't a factory EVF available for a camera that was designed to be used with an EVF.

I personally though it was an unbalanced front heavy camera when I tried it even though everyone seemed to think it was an ergonomic dream.

Ursa "failed" in my view because they lead with the same DR limited low base ISO sensor. But at least it had a decent EVF, made better pictures (with the same sensor) and was half the price of a Cion.

If Cion really was just misunderstood, then it would be a cult camera...like say the way an F35 is (or even a pocket)

It's not.

JB

*EDIT, i just found this article too, looking at the same linked AJA generated footage. This is from their own demo footage, not a reviewer. http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisiti ... -reel.html
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Australian Image

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 8:14 am

I think if you were looking for a smaller camera, but with a more conventional cine camera form-factor, something like this could hit the spot (in a m4/3 or slightly larger sensor size):

Image

I used to use medium format cameras and they were a joy to use, always regretted selling mine, though that particular brand died off (Zenza Bronica).
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 10:27 am

They’ll announce the BMPCC4K PRO

............If you know BMD the way I do just you wait
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 2:20 pm

... just wait 12 weeks!


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Brian Russo

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 3:48 pm

that they'll actually support the mini 4.6k instead of banishing it to hell after the pro.

that they're actually shipping the pocket 4k instead of it dribbling out.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 4:04 pm

A complete Redesign of the Resolve GUI to drag it out of the 90's!
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 6:26 pm

An Extended Video option added to the BM Studio 4K Cameras, including the Micro Studio 4K Camera.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 7:48 pm

Que Thompson wrote:
FrankApollonio wrote:i want to see a $10,000 camera...

id love to see a body insanely sturdy like arri mini... similar form factor, I'm down with a new sensor if they went bigger fine, or dual asa sensor fine. make the camera have higher fps without windowing, need minimum 120. id say lose the built in screen. PLEASE MAKE ALL 1/4" solid, can't say how often i tighten the 1/4" to movi plate and it strips the plastic around the port and then never sets flat again... i barely put power into it. ( im sure its happened to others, you hear a pop) make a more solid battery plate, mine micro wiggles around with a heavy battery. make a less proprietary evf... just upgrade the ursa mini pro... you guys have great color now. the current camera is a bit long for gimbal work if i put large lenses on ( tokina vista primes ) just make it feel like a tank like arris, id gladly pay an extra 5k for that.


This may actually be a good idea, but for a different reason. I say a $30,000 camera, this way BMD can really compete with RED, Arri, Sony in that part of the market. Additionally, it can also legitimize the little guy (people like us). When the next Marvel movie is shot using the Blackmagic Goliath, we can go to a shoot saying that we're shooting Blackmagic and get the same response someone with a Red Raven would get. All they have to say is that they shoot Red and they're golden. If BMD builds a high end camera I think it could do the same for us.


I think the market for Blackmagic is because of its robust cine camera at affordable prices. It's market is the independent, small production, and global reach of the industry. That a very large market, much larger that what RED and Arri has today. Besides USA, I traveled to Asia, India, and parts of Europe who has so many and excellent indie film productions and they use BMD products more than any other (due to mainly affordability and cinema IQ, DR, and color science). True - large production will go with an Arri or RED or Sony and Canon but that's more because they have the budget or they rent. Many Asia and India locals do not have rental services so an Arri or RED is unreachable by the low budget indie films.

So if the goal is not to give access to the world of filmmakers with affordable and high quality product (the latter is true for BMD too), then why stop at $30K. Let's go $80-$100K price point then. :? Some other company will prop-up and fill the BMD niche.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 7:53 pm

Australian Image wrote:I think if you were looking for a smaller camera, but with a more conventional cine camera form-factor, something like this could hit the spot (in a m4/3 or slightly larger sensor size):

Image


+1. How about a micro URSA Pro (mUP) that looks something like this hassblad form factro? This makes the camera form-factor looks more like a cinema camera than a DSLR (like the pocket did).
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