What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

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Denny Smith

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 9:25 pm

Interesting idea...
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Valery Axenov

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 12:18 am

BM Micro Cinema Fild Camera 4K S16 +13stop 60fps RAW
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rick.lang

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 5:50 am

Valery, what mount? MFT?


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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 pm

I like the look too. But you could simply have a camera head recorder for POV filming that plugs into a case like this for handheld.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 4:59 pm

rick.lang wrote:Valery, what mount? MFT?


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No, Rick.)) MTF is an amateur mount in any case. It do not hold Pro Cine lenses in specification. I thinks about this matter all the time I put more than 1kg lens to my camera. It looks even strange on BMPCC 4K body (to my opinion.) I think it should be a conception with possibility to use any mount at user option and it should be fixed to body of the camera within +/-0,01mm). No sence to use PL adaptor and big lenses if you need to put it first into MTF mount of the camera. Or this adapter should be fixed to MTF mount with additional 3x(inside screews) (let say have modernization for pro users).

And all this does not mean that camera body should hold heavy lens. It's a matter of system (lens+camera) specification for any pro user in any field situation.
Last edited by Valery Axenov on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 6:10 pm

You could go with a EF and PL mount options, which are close in FFD, similar to what the Ursa Mini Pro is doing.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 7:43 pm

Valery Axenov wrote:No, Rick.)) MTF is an amateur mount in any case.


So the BMPCC4K (and the BMPCC) is just for amateurs?
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Valery Axenov

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 8:21 pm

Australian Image wrote:
Valery Axenov wrote:No, Rick.)) MTF is an amateur mount in any case.


So the BMPCC4K (and the BMPCC) is just for amateurs?


No, absolutely great cameras with poor for professional use mount. I can't use even Angenieux 5.9/1.8 without support. I have no this problem with my Beaulieu R16 from 70th adapted to FD mount for all my cine and original Canon L lenses.

I cann't imagine that somebody put this type of mount (MTF) let say to 16mm ARRI ST or BL, even Bolex moved to locking type of mount on later H16 spring motor cameras. That's the matter of fact.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 8:50 pm

Valery Axenov wrote:
Australian Image wrote:
Valery Axenov wrote:No, Rick.)) MTF is an amateur mount in any case.


So the BMPCC4K (and the BMPCC) is just for amateurs?


No, absolutely great cameras with poor for professional use mount. I can't use even Angenieux 5.9/1.8 without support. I have no this problem with my Beaulieu R16 from 70th adapted to FD mount for all my cine and original Canon L lenses.

I cann't imagine that somebody put this type of mount (MTF) let say to 16mm ARRI ST or BL, even Bolex moved to locking type of mount on later H16 spring motor cameras. That's the matter of fact.


The mount is MFT for a very specific reason, it allows native use of MFT lenses, lenses that are readily available, affordable and of excellent quality and supported by numerous manufacturers. And the mount allows you to adapt virtually every lens ever made for any camera.

It's an absolutely logical and smart move to design the camera with a MFT mount. I can only imagine the handful of cameras that would have sold had it used a mount that you desire. In fact it would have been widely lambasted and failed miserably. Those sorts of design ideas send a company broke.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 8:58 pm

As an UMP owner I can't be happier with this product and it's capabilities. If such a great film like "Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri" can be partially shot with UM 4.6k and matched with an Alexa, what more can I want?

Actually there are a few things:
- grid view of shot footage
- control of the camera from my android device
- as stated earlier, streaming to your phone as a monitor would be nice, but i don't know what type of connection the camera has to support this.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 10:14 pm

The mount is MFT for a very specific reason, it allows native use of MFT lenses, lenses that are readily available, affordable and of excellent quality and supported by numerous manufacturers. And the mount allows you to adapt virtually every lens ever made for any camera.

[/quote]

I do not see any alternative to MTF for Micro at the moment. But may be a spring inside should be stronger than what I have in BMPCC. I need to open my camera mount and improve a bit it curve shape. It has not the best construction with rather thin parts and so, it become loose with time.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 10:26 pm

Valery Axenov wrote:I do not see any alternative to MTF for Micro at the moment. But may be a spring inside should be stronger than what I have in BMPCC. I need to open my camera mount and improve a bit it curve shape. It has not the best construction with rather thin parts and so, it become loose with time.


You may have a mount or specific lens/adapter issue, mine is quite positive and firm. I've been using the MFT system in stills cameras since MFT came out and have never experienced any mount issues, other than with poor quality aftermarket adapters. But since I mainly use Olympus 4/3 lenses, the MFT adapter tends to remain on the camera all the time and all I change are the lenses.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 11:24 pm

600-700g lens is a limitation for this type of spring inside mount (MTF) according to tech. data. That is the problem. I use camera a lot for hand held documentary shooting with pro cine lenses including Zeiss zoom. So, I prefer to have better cine locking type of mount.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 11:41 pm

Valero, imso,fed this bynusing the Wooden Camera Pocket Cage and the Wooden Camera MFT/PLmadapter, which screws to rhe Cage and locks the PL mount in place, no movement. Works great also, next best thing to having an actual PL mount in the camera.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm

Valery Axenov wrote:600-700g lens is a limitation for this type of spring inside mount (MTF) according to tech. data. That is the problem. I use camera a lot for hand held documentary shooting with pro cine lenses including Zeiss zoom. So, I prefer to have better cine locking type of mount.


I've been using much heavier lenses on my E-M1 MkI and MkII for years without issues. My most often used lenses are the 14-35mm f2 (900g without adapter) and 35-100mm f2 (1650g without tripod collar and adapter). Remember, the idea with heavy lenses is that you support the lens with one hand, not hold the camera body with two hands.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 12:15 am

honestly if they could make a Mini Converter - Up Down Cross 4k. Cheap 1080p 29.97 to 2160p 29.97 would be super helpful at my job.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 12:25 am

Extended video and BM Raw for the Ursa Mini 4.6k. Looking to sell it quickly otherwise.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 12:34 am

Nick Lavigne wrote:honestly if they could make a Mini Converter - Up Down Cross 4k. Cheap 1080p 29.97 to 2160p 29.97 would be super helpful at my job.


An interesting thought. I've upscaled 1080p to 4K a couple of times in Resolve and the results are surprisingly good. I wonder what could be achieved with hardware dedicated to such tasks?
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 1:45 am

And even bigger lens.

So, a parent mount built into the forward section of the body, such as the front is part of the mount, heavily reinforced, with a screw in locked large parent mount hole, where mtf mount it whatever can be screwed in and locked. A normal solution without restriction for all normal mounts which can be accurately positioned in the hole. It's going to cost, but could even be sold as an after market upgrade to existing owners, replacing the front of the case. Alongside the other lens supporting solutions, at great range of solutions could be had.

Now, are we asking the wrong question. On the Red hydrogen cinema camera module, they are using a extremely low profile lens based on an d technology I had been advocating. However, using new technology the camera come with two lenses which could outdo most all cinema lens, with the zoom lens outdoing most zoom or primes. Liquid lens technology or hybrid is the way to do it cheaply at great quality. Samsung has so e sort of system for this in large format. They have significant camera technology which might be bought from their closed down camera division. They were readying a top line mirrorless when they stopped. A deal with Samsung may open up asic chip foundry solutions. It's business

There are other lens technologies, but the reality is that you can get great conventional lens hand made for m43 cheaper than you can buy these top lens. There are private guys with little firms that make batches of high quality s16 lens in Japan for like $699. We have enough 43rds out there to warrant lens in that format to be made. Remember, when Red started selling their own lens, they were high quality at a fraction of the price. BM could do the same, but sell to all 4/3rds owners, including ENG. A big market. Not to mention Indian and Chinese optical companies that could be approached, and small lens companies bought.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 4:50 am

I've thought about this for a while, and honestly I'm committing to it.

A TRUE SUPER-35mm SENSOR SIZED RAW STILL & DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA

Bear with me. I still want to URSA Mini Pro design, however this goes with the original concept of the 2.5 BMCC and the original pocket concepts as well for a DSLR KILLER Cinema Camera and Stills Camera. Take the 4.6K Sensor and put it into a body shaped like the Pocket 4K, but it's bigger to accommodate the sensor and the built on hardware. Obviously a boosted processor to handle the 4.6K Sensor at 60fps, but also to handle a built in electronic viewfinder that is built on just like a DSLR Eyepiece. That is one small monitoring screen, but you also have the back LCD to control the menu and view the shot when the camera is held away from the body. So, that small monitoring screen gets its own signal and has the built in IR Sensor of the BMD Viewfinder. This is so when you enable the outer screen for shot monitoring and your eye isn't at the eyepiece you conserve battery power. The camera works both for stills and digital cinema recording.

The URSA MINI PRO update is still with the 4.6K Sensor as I've previously stated, but with better rolling shutter and the capability to handle 120fps from the new processor. Also is the other ideas I put forth above, and won't go into detail on. But the PRO V2.0 will feature more than the camera I'm now focusing my pitch on.

The idea from this stemmed from doing photo and video at the same time on a recent shoot. However, I had the Cinema Camera on the Slider most of the shoot while the DSLR functioned only for stills. However, if I could get those stills handheld, then why couldn't I also capture additional B-Roll footage from the same camera? It would give me an A and B camera package that works well for these types of shoots. The fact remains that had I done this on this last shoot I would have captured more footage and one more additional looks without disturbing my heftier cinema camera set up.

I've pined about the desire for the BMCC body to be used with the 4.6K sensor as a crash camera in the past. That camera's introduction got many of this generation to abandon DSLR's for video at a time DSLR's revolutionized a form factor. The BMCC had that form factor to a degree, but was still heavy and boxy for what it did. Still add the BMCC metal sturdy body to the lineup as a Crash Camera with the same 4.6K Sensor and Processor for the DSLR KILLER camera I spoke of above and you now have 3 cameras in the 4.6K Sensor lineup that all could be used on a shoot.

I'll lastly bring to mention the URSA BODY: 65MM SENSOR! 9.2K... Simply a 65mm Sensor Size Camera with quadruple the resolution of the 4.6K so it's 9,216 X 5,184 pixels... or 47,775,744 total pixels. There's your 8K designed camera and sensor. One that makes logical sense. Otherwise I see no point in a Super 35mm Sensor size for 8K.

Timbutt2 Signing Off...
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 11:29 pm

Just passing through today. I've scanned what Tim said, and I agree somewhat, at least.
Somebody had posted a picture of a grey Hasselblad medium format camera on a thread as inspiration. Such a mini mini, maxi pocket hybrid with next generation mini sensor, or updated 4.6k, would he a welcome $2k camera. People ask for a 6k sensor, well, that would be a good place for it, mid range. Plus whatever of Tim's post which names the nosy we she to have.

Looking at BM's camera range we see, camera head like micro units, needed. On the go full functional pocket units. These should both he the same camera in two parts which can be slitted together. We then see a variety of full camera like ability in the mini series, which should come in two parts with a detachable recording head. By putting this recording head on a pocket modular above, you get a intermediate camera. But I'm for having a camera in the middle. Three cameras to do everything that the current range does.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 28, 2019 4:55 am

I'm bumping this thread because of a recently new NAB thread. The two should be merged...

A new thought on Resolve & BMD Cameras.

I want to bring back the GYROSCOPE. This is for Fusion and Camera Tracking. It was a brilliant thought in 2015, and I would love to see it brought back.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 28, 2019 6:08 am

If it was dropped due to poor performance in the Metal URSA, it could be given new life in the BMPCC4K v2.


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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 28, 2019 11:57 am

timbutt2 wrote:I want to bring back the GYROSCOPE. This is for Fusion and Camera Tracking. It was a brilliant thought in 2015, and I would love to see it brought back.


Indeed, too bad they dropped it :/ That was a crazy good idea that could save a lot of time.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostMon Jan 28, 2019 5:58 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
Australian Image wrote:I think if you were looking for a smaller camera, but with a more conventional cine camera form-factor, something like this could hit the spot (in a m4/3 or slightly larger sensor size):

Image


+1. How about a micro URSA Pro (mUP) that looks something like this hassblad form factro? This makes the camera form-factor looks more like a cinema camera than a DSLR (like the pocket did).


Ironically, that IS a dSLR ;)
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Denny Smith

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 2:27 am

And that “DSLR, cost $30-40K. :!:
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 2:30 am

It's pricey... But nicer than a Canon

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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 3:07 am

Olympus made a similar form-factor, modular, camera as prototype decades ago (it was 35mm) and might have been nice as a digital camera:

Image
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 5:28 am

Good find!


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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 5:50 am

Love to see V11 of Fusion.

Would also love to see a gyroscopic device and someway to broadcast a stream to wireless devices for monitoring.

Other than that I want for nothing.
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rick.lang

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What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 8:59 pm

Kel would this be sufficient?

Teradek Bolt HD
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1403841-REG



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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 10:51 pm

Rollie actually built a 35mm version, the Rollie SL2000.
See: http://www.fuwen.net/index.php/home/rol ... rolleiflex
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 11:37 pm

rick.lang wrote:Kel would this be sufficient?

Teradeck Bolt HD
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1403841-REG

Rick, I'd love if that could be attached to the URSA Mini body similar to the SSD Recorder Blackmagic makes. That would be amazing since then it would just be an add-on to the body.

Granted, I want more integration with the next URSA Mini where the Video Assist has a built in Receiver and can attach to a Remote Follow Focus unit that Blackmagic Design has made. Combined together the new Wireless Video Assist can also connect via Bluetooth to the camera to control Camera Settings and Metadata. All while the Remote Follow Focus Unit gets accurate focus data from the lens.

I feel this would take Blackmagic to a whole new level for production workflow on the Cinema Cameras.
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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 1:53 am

Actually, that sounds good. An increased external controllability and wireless monitoring on all the cameras, and video assist, with macros, snd phone connection. would be useful? WiFi is good for basic monitoring short distance, and 5G, which uses a form of WiFi (most TV only needs a SD-fullhd feed), but can live feed). I still say, if black magic raw included redoing picture levels in meta data, and Braw writing, it would make a good distribution format for something like this, and handoffs.

Video assist:
I still would like a video assist with 4 inputs, or 4 small mobile camera square array for computational photography, and full camera controls for all cameras.
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rick.lang

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What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 2:25 am

BMD was first with 12G SDI. Maybe they’ll be the first Camera with WiFi 6 and Bluetooth 5.


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Re: What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

PostSun Feb 24, 2019 6:45 am

I would like to see record flag (VANC and HANC) support for all Decklink and Ultrastudio family.
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