What would you like BMD to announce at the next NAB

Valery, what mount? MFT?


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No, Rick.)) MTF is an amateur mount in any case. It do not hold Pro Cine lenses in specification. I thinks about this matter all the time I put more than 1kg lens to my camera. It looks even strange on BMPCC 4K body (to my opinion.) I think it should be a conception with possibility to use any mount at user option and it should be fixed to body of the camera within +/-0,01mm). No sence to use PL adaptor and big lenses if you need to put it first into MTF mount of the camera. Or this adapter should be fixed to MTF mount with additional 3x(inside screews) (let say have modernization for pro users).

And all this does not mean that camera body should hold heavy lens. It's a matter of system (lens+camera) specification for any pro user in any field situation.

You could go with a EF and PL mount options, which are close in FFD, similar to what the Ursa Mini Pro is doing.
Cheers

No, Rick.)) MTF is an amateur mount in any case.

So the BMPCC4K (and the BMPCC) is just for amateurs?

No, absolutely great cameras with poor for professional use mount. I can't use even Angenieux 5.9/1.8 without support. I have no this problem with my Beaulieu R16 from 70th adapted to FD mount for all my cine and original Canon L lenses.

I cann't imagine that somebody put this type of mount (MTF) let say to 16mm ARRI ST or BL, even Bolex moved to locking type of mount on later H16 spring motor cameras. That's the matter of fact.

As an UMP owner I can't be happier with this product and it's capabilities. If such a great film like "Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri" can be partially shot with UM 4.6k and matched with an Alexa, what more can I want?

Actually there are a few things:
- grid view of shot footage
- control of the camera from my android device
- as stated earlier, streaming to your phone as a monitor would be nice, but i don't know what type of connection the camera has to support this.

The mount is MFT for a very specific reason, it allows native use of MFT lenses, lenses that are readily available, affordable and of excellent quality and supported by numerous manufacturers. And the mount allows you to adapt virtually every lens ever made for any camera.

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I do not see any alternative to MTF for Micro at the moment. But may be a spring inside should be stronger than what I have in BMPCC. I need to open my camera mount and improve a bit it curve shape. It has not the best construction with rather thin parts and so, it become loose with time.

600-700g lens is a limitation for this type of spring inside mount (MTF) according to tech. data. That is the problem. I use camera a lot for hand held documentary shooting with pro cine lenses including Zeiss zoom. So, I prefer to have better cine locking type of mount.

Valero, i solved this bynusing the Wooden Camera Pocket Cage and the Wooden Camera MFT/PLmadapter, which screws to the Cage and locks the PL mount in place, no movement. Works great, and the next best thing to having an actual PL mount in the camera.
Cheers

honestly if they could make a Mini Converter - Up Down Cross 4k. Cheap 1080p 29.97 to 2160p 29.97 would be super helpful at my job.

Extended video and BM Raw for the Ursa Mini 4.6k. Looking to sell it quickly otherwise.

And even bigger lens.

So, a parent mount built into the forward section of the body, such as the front is part of the mount, heavily reinforced, with a screw in locked large parent mount hole, where mtf mount it whatever can be screwed in and locked. A normal solution without restriction for all normal mounts which can be accurately positioned in the hole. It's going to cost, but could even be sold as an after market upgrade to existing owners, replacing the front of the case. Alongside the other lens supporting solutions, at great range of solutions could be had.

Now, are we asking the wrong question. On the Red hydrogen cinema camera module, they are using a extremely low profile lens based on an d technology I had been advocating. However, using new technology the camera come with two lenses which could outdo most all cinema lens, with the zoom lens outdoing most zoom or primes. Liquid lens technology or hybrid is the way to do it cheaply at great quality. Samsung has so e sort of system for this in large format. They have significant camera technology which might be bought from their closed down camera division. They were readying a top line mirrorless when they stopped. A deal with Samsung may open up asic chip foundry solutions. It's business

There are other lens technologies, but the reality is that you can get great conventional lens hand made for m43 cheaper than you can buy these top lens. There are private guys with little firms that make batches of high quality s16 lens in Japan for like $699. We have enough 43rds out there to warrant lens in that format to be made. Remember, when Red started selling their own lens, they were high quality at a fraction of the price. BM could do the same, but sell to all 4/3rds owners, including ENG. A big market. Not to mention Indian and Chinese optical companies that could be approached, and small lens companies bought.

I've thought about this for a while, and honestly I'm committing to it.

A TRUE SUPER-35mm SENSOR SIZED RAW STILL & DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA

Bear with me. I still want to URSA Mini Pro design, however this goes with the original concept of the 2.5 BMCC and the original pocket concepts as well for a DSLR KILLER Cinema Camera and Stills Camera. Take the 4.6K Sensor and put it into a body shaped like the Pocket 4K, but it's bigger to accommodate the sensor and the built on hardware. Obviously a boosted processor to handle the 4.6K Sensor at 60fps, but also to handle a built in electronic viewfinder that is built on just like a DSLR Eyepiece. That is one small monitoring screen, but you also have the back LCD to control the menu and view the shot when the camera is held away from the body. So, that small monitoring screen gets its own signal and has the built in IR Sensor of the BMD Viewfinder. This is so when you enable the outer screen for shot monitoring and your eye isn't at the eyepiece you conserve battery power. The camera works both for stills and digital cinema recording.

The URSA MINI PRO update is still with the 4.6K Sensor as I've previously stated, but with better rolling shutter and the capability to handle 120fps from the new processor. Also is the other ideas I put forth above, and won't go into detail on. But the PRO V2.0 will feature more than the camera I'm now focusing my pitch on.

The idea from this stemmed from doing photo and video at the same time on a recent shoot. However, I had the Cinema Camera on the Slider most of the shoot while the DSLR functioned only for stills. However, if I could get those stills handheld, then why couldn't I also capture additional B-Roll footage from the same camera? It would give me an A and B camera package that works well for these types of shoots. The fact remains that had I done this on this last shoot I would have captured more footage and one more additional looks without disturbing my heftier cinema camera set up.

I've pined about the desire for the BMCC body to be used with the 4.6K sensor as a crash camera in the past. That camera's introduction got many of this generation to abandon DSLR's for video at a time DSLR's revolutionized a form factor. The BMCC had that form factor to a degree, but was still heavy and boxy for what it did. Still add the BMCC metal sturdy body to the lineup as a Crash Camera with the same 4.6K Sensor and Processor for the DSLR KILLER camera I spoke of above and you now have 3 cameras in the 4.6K Sensor lineup that all could be used on a shoot.

I'll lastly bring to mention the URSA BODY: 65MM SENSOR! 9.2K... Simply a 65mm Sensor Size Camera with quadruple the resolution of the 4.6K so it's 9,216 X 5,184 pixels... or 47,775,744 total pixels. There's your 8K designed camera and sensor. One that makes logical sense. Otherwise I see no point in a Super 35mm Sensor size for 8K.

Timbutt2 Signing Off...

Just passing through today. I've scanned what Tim said, and I agree somewhat, at least.
Somebody had posted a picture of a grey Hasselblad medium format camera on a thread as inspiration. Such a mini mini, maxi pocket hybrid with next generation mini sensor, or updated 4.6k, would he a welcome $2k camera. People ask for a 6k sensor, well, that would be a good place for it, mid range. Plus whatever of Tim's post which names the nosy we she to have.

Looking at BM's camera range we see, camera head like micro units, needed. On the go full functional pocket units. These should both he the same camera in two parts which can be slitted together. We then see a variety of full camera like ability in the mini series, which should come in two parts with a detachable recording head. By putting this recording head on a pocket modular above, you get a intermediate camera. But I'm for having a camera in the middle. Three cameras to do everything that the current range does.

I'm bumping this thread because of a recently new NAB thread. The two should be merged...

A new thought on Resolve & BMD Cameras.

I want to bring back the GYROSCOPE. This is for Fusion and Camera Tracking. It was a brilliant thought in 2015, and I would love to see it brought back.

If it was dropped due to poor performance in the Metal URSA, it could be given new life in the BMPCC4K v2.


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I want to bring back the GYROSCOPE. This is for Fusion and Camera Tracking. It was a brilliant thought in 2015, and I would love to see it brought back.

Indeed, too bad they dropped it :/ That was a crazy good idea that could save a lot of time.

I think if you were looking for a smaller camera, but with a more conventional cine camera form-factor, something like this could hit the spot (in a m4/3 or slightly larger sensor size):

+1. How about a micro URSA Pro (mUP) that looks something like this hassblad form factro? This makes the camera form-factor looks more like a cinema camera than a DSLR (like the pocket did).

Ironically, that IS a dSLR

And that “DSLR, cost $30-40K.
Cheers

It's pricey... But nicer than a Canon

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Good find!


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Love to see V11 of Fusion.

Would also love to see a gyroscopic device and someway to broadcast a stream to wireless devices for monitoring.

Other than that I want for nothing.

Kel would this be sufficient?

Teradek Bolt HD
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1403841-REG



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Rollie actually built a 35mm version, the Rollie SL2000.
See: http://www.fuwen.net/index.php/home/rol ... rolleiflex
Cheers

Kel would this be sufficient?

Teradeck Bolt HD
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1403841-REG

Rick, I'd love if that could be attached to the URSA Mini body similar to the SSD Recorder Blackmagic makes. That would be amazing since then it would just be an add-on to the body.

Granted, I want more integration with the next URSA Mini where the Video Assist has a built in Receiver and can attach to a Remote Follow Focus unit that Blackmagic Design has made. Combined together the new Wireless Video Assist can also connect via Bluetooth to the camera to control Camera Settings and Metadata. All while the Remote Follow Focus Unit gets accurate focus data from the lens.

I feel this would take Blackmagic to a whole new level for production workflow on the Cinema Cameras.

Actually, that sounds good. An increased external controllability and wireless monitoring on all the cameras, and video assist, with macros, snd phone connection. would be useful? WiFi is good for basic monitoring short distance, and 5G, which uses a form of WiFi (most TV only needs a SD-fullhd feed), but can live feed). I still say, if black magic raw included redoing picture levels in meta data, and Braw writing, it would make a good distribution format for something like this, and handoffs.

Video assist:
I still would like a video assist with 4 inputs, or 4 small mobile camera square array for computational photography, and full camera controls for all cameras.

BMD was first with 12G SDI. Maybe they’ll be the first Camera with WiFi 6 and Bluetooth 5.


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I would like to see record flag (VANC and HANC) support for all Decklink and Ultrastudio family.

Cion did "Standard" which was their take on REC 709 (aka VIDEO), Cine, which was their version of LOG (Aka FILM) and it Linear if I recall....I think they added some more gamma modes later ?

"Normal" is not Rec709, Neither is Normal Expanded, Expanded 1, or Disabled.
The Rec709 curve was clearly labeled "Video", and worked in tandem with the 'Video' colour profile in the White Balance section.

They later changed the labeling of Expanded 1 to 'Cine', to be clearer to people coming to the camera from DSLR's, but almost none of us use it, preferring Gamma 'Disabled', which sends the Sensor Linear output to the PakMedia and the SDI/HDMI ports.

Resolve looks after us with the OpenFX Colourspace Transform, which allows us to tell the software to interpret out footage as Linear, and then select which ever other camera we like as the output.
IIRC, the only other cameras allowing Linear output are Sony and Arri's cine cameras.

This also leads to why I really want BMD to do an external recorder with their raw format, as it will allow higher quality in the end projects for those of us who've been disappointed by Atomos and CV and CineDNG support that was never delivered. The camera outputs Raw, the recorders don't record it.

Braw's easier file handling and management will speed up post for us too.

I don't recall anyone having issues dealing with it because it was linear ? I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.

That's because the reviewers treated the footage the same way they would treat Log.
The members of the user group found out the best way to deal with the footage via experimentation - AJA Really dropped the ball when it came to releasing workflow guides, and it was only thanks to one of our French members (who also owns BMD gear) that the best workflow got posted to the user group.

I've personally shot side by side with my Cion and mates 2K and 4K versions of the original Cine Camera, and when the correct process is followed, we have not been able to spot any difference in the footage from the BMD cameras in Film gamma, and the Cion footage after OpenFX transform from Linear to the BMD Film preset.

Used in the manner described here, the dynamic range is more then enough to get high quality images.

The viewfinders question - SmallHD, Zacuto and others all make viewfinders to a very high standard, there was never any need for AJA to make one. Instead they made a mount for the camera to allow the Cinematographer to use which ever viewfinder they preferred.

I don't recall anyone having issues dealing with it because it was linear ? I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.

That's because the reviewers treated the footage the same way they would treat Log.

To be completely honest, I thought it was blindingly obvious that that was a problem. Not the fact that the Cion used linear encoding, but the fact that most of the people who tried it clearly didn't realize that.

You just have to treat it like slide film instead of negative film, which is to say be more protective of the highlights than of the shadows.

I've personally shot side by side with my Cion and mates 2K and 4K versions of the original Cine Camera, and when the correct process is followed, we have not been able to spot any difference in the footage from the BMD cameras in Film gamma, and the Cion footage after OpenFX transform from Linear to the BMD Film preset.

Used in the manner described here, the dynamic range is more then enough to get high quality images.

Agreed. It's 12 stops, which is more than what cinematographers had access to for a hundred years.

That said, since AJA got the color science figured out in firmware 1.3, I was hoping that it would follow it up with a successor with a smaller chassis and on board raw recording... or at least develop a version of its field recorders that could record AJA raw.

I'll stop by the AJA booth sometime during NAB and bug 'em about braw recording. Why not, eh?

A braw 8k 4/3rds+ pocket pro or micro pro, with newer sensor technology to get 15stop+. $2k. If quad Bayer, OK, that's still a 4k Bayer pattern.

What I want:
A BMD take on the Datavideo KMU-100.

Take 1-2 4K video inputs and be able to get 4-8 HD outputs from selectable areas of the camera feed.

Rolland just added something similar to it's new v-600uhd with the "Region of Intrest" feature.

honestly if they could make a Mini Converter - Up Down Cross 4k. Cheap 1080p 29.97 to 2160p 29.97 would be super helpful at my job.

Yeah just a Up Down Cross 12G would be great. Because put a teranex AV in every conversion is really OVERKILL.. And the teranex also has a lot of latency that i don't want.

As they now have the Atem TVS 4K pro with auto scaling inputs from HD to 4K.. I wonder how long it will take to adapt that into a mini converter for 1 channel operations.. Saturday we will know..

And if not BMD. Then maybe some other company will bring an affordable UpDownCross 12G. I hope for a Decimator MD-Cross 4K or something similar.

Also i would not mind to see a Micro Studio Camera 12G version. Or even better a 4K PTZ unit.
Which is a huge issue to get now for 4K.. Especially for us running a 4ME Broadcast in 2160P50.. And run domes in HD with upconversion with latency and not as good as 4K quality..

Also really hope we will see a upgraded version of the Smartscope 4K 12G. So we can finally put 12G duo views in our racks..

2 days left and we will know..

Pssst BMD.. How about this.??

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That said, since AJA got the color science figured out in firmware 1.3, I was hoping that it would follow it up with a successor with a smaller chassis and on board raw recording... or at least develop a version of its field recorders that could record AJA raw.

I'll stop by the AJA booth sometime during NAB and bug 'em about braw recording. Why not, eh?

Yes Please! And yeah the lack of onboard raw bugs us endlessly, as Convergent Design and Atomos never delivered on the Raw Recording they promised.

And with the hat on as the user group admin for the camera, we'd love Braw, but I'd expect with AJA's history, they'll lean towards ProResRaw.

v1.3,... we don't use it, too many other bugs.

I'll chat with AJA... You never know.

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My vote would have been fulfillment of the outstanding back orders for the Pocket 4K to be announced at NAB 2019.

My vote would have been fulfillment of the outstanding back orders for the Pocket 4K to be announced at NAB 2019.

They seem to be getting there..

I hear of retailers getting units frequently and even had a store here that sayed they have stock at the moment. Was on facebook so i don't recall which store it was. (But maybe some cancelled pre-orders or even that they ordered more to have stock for sale who knows..

Anyway i guess BMD is working as hard as they can to get product out. But the problem is that they announced a camera at nab 2018 that was not ready for production yet.
Then they do not get it crunched out on time for the prospected release date. And pre-orders were much much more then anticipated. These things happen!

With other products they make sure they have X thousand in stock before they announce it. But because everyone was asking for a 4K update for the Pocket camera. BMD showed what they were busy with.

Would you rather have boughed a Sony or GH5 in dis-appointment that BMD did not release a 4K pocket. And then a year later at NAB 2019 when ready and in stock you would have to sale your Sony or GH5 or whatever and loose at least $1000 on it..

Would you rather have boughed a Sony or GH5 in dis-appointment that BMD did not release a 4K pocket. And then a year later at NAB 2019 when ready and in stock you would have to sale your Sony or GH5 or whatever and loose at least $1000 on it..

No I used my head and bought a Olympus OM-D and lenses that I reckoned I would also comfortably use with a Pocket 4K. I also contemplated and recontemplated various things like which Cfast and external battery to buy. Thinking well if they are a few months late then I should be patient. However 1 year later and it still is not here and worse I haven't even seen one in Switzerland yet.......

You can surely see that I am just a little bit annoyed, but at the same time looking forward to getting my hands on a Pocket 4K. I am also worried thinking if they are so poor at delivery what will it be like for repairs and after sales service.

My vote would have been fulfillment of the outstanding back orders for the Pocket 4K to be announced at NAB 2019.

They seem to be getting there..

Much to my surprise I had a missed call and therefore just before Easter on Thursday I can collect my 4K! What brilliant news!

NAB pics.

Nice billboard just outside the convention center.

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As you walk in, the first and one of the biggest booths:

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DaVinci Resolve Editor Keyboard

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Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2 with Fujifilm $212,000 broadcast 8.4-900mm zoom lens.

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In a separate booth, Davinci Class

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Back at my office, comparing the ugly (looks like a RadioShack catalog from the 80s) Blackmagic catalog with my collection from 2012.

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Back at my office, comparing the ugly (looks like a RadioShack catalog from the 80s) Blackmagic catalog with my collection from 2012.

Hahahaha, maybe they could pickup the "Realistic" branding for their next line of cameras...