URSA Cine Mount Request - Panavision SP70 & PV Mount

I have a request for Blackmagic Design to work with Panavision to get the SP70 & PV Mount System made for the URSA Cine line. I think this would open up the camera to use their lenses, which are used on a wide range of projects. Especially the Panavision 65mm coverage lenses for the URSA Cine 17K.

The SP70 mount’s shallow flange depth allows you to be adaptable anywhere, at any time.

Sounds like it should be workable.

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Here's the PDF from their website, which I edited my first post on this thread to include a quote from it.

Panavision Lens Mount PDF

Panavision-Streamlined-Lens-Mounts-and-Adapters.jpg (101.68 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

Panavision would have to co-operate.

I’m certain we will see other third party adaptations and mods too.

PV lenses are all fairly pricey too. Not for your average user.

JB

Panavision would have to co-operate.

I’m certain we will see other third party adaptations and mods too.

PV lenses are all fairly pricey too. Not for your average user.

JB

True. But as a rental option they are great options to have. And, since I know Panavision has 65mm Format Lenses it might be a great choice to work with them for a mount to be able to use that glass.

I was just watching something shot on their Primo 70 glass and I absolutely loved it. Throughout watching I was wondering what glass was used. And, this was a show I gave a watch out of dumb curiosity and found I really enjoyed the horror aspects.


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CORRECTION EDIT: I said Primo 70, but it was actually Panaspeed lenses used on the series I was referring.

It’s more complex than wanting to use PV lenses Tim.

They would have to agree to rent them to you. Typically they won’t rent you a lens package without also renting you a camera package.

So PV have to choose to carry the Ursa Cine 65 and then do a mount conversion for it.

I’m sure if there is demand they would consider it.

But as of now you’re probably not going to be able to ring PV and ask for a kit of primo 70s by themselves to fit onto your camera. Or you’ll have to also rent some other camera from them that maybe you put to one side.

JB

It’s more complex than wanting to use PV lenses Tim.

They would have to agree to rent them to you. Typically they won’t rent you a lens package without also renting you a camera package.

So PV have to choose to carry the Ursa Cine 65 and then do a mount conversion for it.

I’m sure if there is demand they would consider it.

But as of now you’re probably not going to be able to ring PV and ask for a kit of primo 70s by themselves to fit onto your camera. Or you’ll have to also rent some other camera from them that maybe you put to one side.

JB

Hmmm... that's a bummer. I respect Panavision for how they choose to do business, but I don't particularly like this methodology that you describe. Well, let's hope that Blackmagic gets a deal with PV with supplying them URSA Cine 17K Cameras that will be fitted with the Mount Conversion. Then hopefully productions can get permission to rent that camera with the lenses.

PV have no trouble renting out their lenses and making good money.
They’re always in high demand. I struggle to get enough sets on shows that are paying top dollar.

A typical three camera package so th primes and zooms per week on an episodic series is 20-30k per week. They can’t supply enough lenses as it is.

JB

I think the move to larger and larger sensors, at more accesible price points brings its own set of challenges for the smaller crews or one man bands. I imagine focus will be absolutely critical on the Ursa Cine 17K. Not a problem for its intended target base, such as John with a full crew and focus puller. But this is naturally not a camera with full AF assists, found increasingly on FF sensor cameras. And I personally think were I in that field, it's rental case would be made accordingly, regardless of available lens packages.

I know diddely squat about these things but LPL may be the most likely wide-throated mount on the URSA Cine 65 in my opinion. I can’t see Panavision, ARRI, and Nikon RED doing BMD any favours. The URSA Cine 65 will be seen as an upstart competitor, not an ally, that will be looking for a foothold for modestly funded features.

I know diddely squat about these things but LPL may be the most likely wide-throated mount on the URSA Cine 65 in my opinion. I can’t see Panavision, ARRI, and Nikon RED doing BMD any favours. The URSA Cine 65 will be seen as an upstart competitor, not an ally, that will be looking for a foothold for modestly funded features.

It's not about Panavision doing a favor for BMD, but instead doing a partnered deal to offer the URSA Cine 12K and URSA Cine 17K with their mounts for use with their lenses. It would join the Arri, RED, and Sony cameras also listed for rental on their site. In the eyes of Panavison I'm sure it would be about offering more options.

And, for Blackmagic making such a deal would help solidify their hope to be used on higher end shoots. It would also widen the selection of lenses that can be used on their camera system.

They don’t just offer Arri and Sony cameras.

As part of their model they “Panavise” them, typically meaning they change the mount to
PV but they also accessorise it so that it fits into their ecosystem.

Early Arri conversions were called “PanArri”.

https://www.sanwa-group.com/en/service/ ... on/st.html

Consider the Genesis vs the stock F35. Both are based on the Sony F35.

One of the reasons Panavision is so enduring is because of the way they accessorise and consider the function of a camera and the way a drama crew work with these cameras. It seems like a joke but Panavision have long had sunglasses holders as a mount accessory for the cage. Thinking about the way the camera works with a crew as well as the end result is in their DNA. It’s everything though, not just the lenses.

For PV to offer the Ursa Cine it means they would also have to panavise it. They don’t really rent stock Arri’s or Sony. They wouldn’t just rent a stock Ursa Cine either.

Given that PV only have film cameras in the 70mm size and are often forced to cross hire rental only Arri Alexa 65 bodies I would have thought the Ursa Cine 65 would be a good option for them.

It will come down to customers asking for it to make it worthwhile for them to go the R&D expense of panavising one.

JB

Tim, it sounds like BMD could put forward the proposal for Panavision to partner with BMD over time, and add the Panavision mount as you suggest, but that may have to pass the first steps of a broader acceptance by DOPs and producers to help incentivize Panavision to adapt the URSA Cine 65 to their ecosystem. First the horse and then the cart.

Seems to me that Tim basically manifested the 17K, conjuring a simple mount shouldn't be too difficult for someone of his ability.

Good Luck

There’s hope when a cinematographer like Greig Fraser is testing the camera and digs it. May give Blackmagic and Panavision the incentive to collaborate so that Panavision with Panavise the cameras and offer them as an option. Fingers crossed.

I’m totally manifesting this now as I want it to happen. I’m manifesting massive success for Blackmagic Design and their new URSA Cine line. I’m also manifesting DaVinci Resolve becoming the industry standard NLE while also being the industry standard for color grading.


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I’m also manifesting DaVinci Resolve becoming the industry standard NLE while also being the industry standard for color grading.

The latter has been the case for some time; but it will take some time for the former to be true over Avid, Tim. I've not been ever offered one job on it as an NLE. It's not half bad though, as I have witnessed on a personal job I am cutting, at the moment; and I can see a day, when this could be entirely possible, the way things stand at Avid, right now.

Is that an actual 17K, as opposed to 12K Cine being tested?

Is that an actual 17K, as opposed to 12K Cine being tested?

That I can't say. Nothing definitive from the image posted. Blackmagic's Instagram did re-share the Story without any additional details. So we can only guess.

I’m also manifesting DaVinci Resolve becoming the industry standard NLE while also being the industry standard for color grading.

The latter has been the case for some time; but it will take some time for the former to be true over Avid, Tim. I've not been ever offered one job on it as an NLE. It's not half bad though, as I have witnessed on a personal job I am cutting, at the moment; and I can see a day, when this could be entirely possible, the way things stand at Avid, right now.

Is that an actual 17K, as opposed to 12K Cine being tested?

The 17k is a wider sensor so makes more sense with 1.33x anamorphics. But I can’t find specs on image circle for the Viltrox lenses so it’s hard to say if they’d cover the 17K, they’re only marketed as full frame.

I have a feeling; and it's an entirely personal one, of no authority whatsoever; that it is by no means given that the 17K will yet see the light of day; despite apparently there being a prototype there by Mr. Petty's desk, recently.

Not that I am suggesting it is beyond technical feasibility but there will always be issues to sort; there are many precedents from manufacturers, including BMD, of these announcements. There is also a commercial angle of potential success, demand and supply.

This as I say is a wild speculation and perhaps others closer to BMD will assure otherwise; I always though like to temper my own realistic expectations; even though I will never be in the market for this particular fine beast.

The 17k is a wider sensor so makes more sense with 1.33x anamorphics. But I can’t find specs on image circle for the Viltrox lenses so it’s hard to say if they’d cover the 17K, they’re only marketed as full frame.

Open gate is 55.9mm for Cine 65 17K which implies a medium format lens. I don’t recall seeing any 135 film ‘full frame’ lenses that will cover at least 56mm image circle.

Though it may be that a lens that quotes 46.3mm for example actually has a larger image circle but the vendor is quoting a smaller circle to indicate the format the lens is designed for.

Fraser must be shooting the UCine12K because that Viltrox lens won’t cover 65mm. Using the Alexa 65 as a guide:

But it will cover the LF so that means it will cover the UCine12K.



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