Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

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LincolnL

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 11:34 am

Taikonaut wrote:
Ryan McCarvill wrote:
sean mclennan wrote:
The only thing that can really entice me over Blackmagic are cameras with the same image and more framerate options, I'm invested in MFT lenses at the moment so a bigger sensor wouldn't do it, unless it was the step up to a MFT sensor.

I might wait for NAB if my camera isn't projected to arrive until March, but seriously who is going to come out with a competitor? All the major camera companies have recently refreshed their lineup (although panasonic could hardly be called a refresh), I'm no longer interested in the compromise of DSLR shooting; gopro is rumored - however I see gopro as a flash in the pan type company like flip was. Pretty soon cell phones will be shock and water resistant and then gopro is dead.


There is Digital Bolex and Kineraw that we already know about, believe me there will be competitors.


Ok, this is my first post after spending many, many weeks just observing in frustration. First let me thank the regulars here (Costa, mhood, Nick Bedford, Peter J. DeCrescenzo, Talkonaut, Paul DelVecchio) for posing questions and complaints, humor and patience, all mixed in with the consistently valid point of view of customers left on the hook. Some think that particular comments were heresy, that being anything but grateful was "whining or conspiracy theory".

These comments kept the community active and out front, and filled in black empty voids that would not have needed to be addressed if it was coming from the source; it wasn't. I made a decision a week ago to go with the R1 MX, because it was a great deal and I'm used to shooting with a "tank" from my days of shooting with the Aaton before diving into digital. I should get it by early December. My last film was shot with the GH2 which I will be keeping for a while.

I got a gig in China in September and am teaching at a university and getting ready to shoot here. For those of you interested in the Kineraw, it's available now, but the support and sales staff make you appreciate BM warts and all. Even though I'm in the manufacturer's back yard, I didn't feel I could jump in. For those waiting for the S16 version, the contact told me that it was "nowhere near ready" for release. If I'm going to pay more than the BMCC I want S35, frame rates and a track record. So I went with Red.

I see a lot of people saying "good luck, buddy you'll need about 10,000.00+ to get it working", but either they just parrot what they see elsewhere or do their buying from brochures. Yes the SSD 64GB is ridiculously priced, but with that and the docking station to offload the mags you are still under 5K. I am lucky I have a friend from NYU who makes a lot of stuff for Red OEM, including the Nikon lens mount, so I'm getting that, rails and a handle for under 500.00. Again, I am fortunate being in the place where most batteries are made, where I can get V-mounts and a charger for under 300.00. An HDMI monitor, and all the rig accessories and lenses I own will do just fine, so I'm under 6K and ready to rock.

I will probably abandon my hopes and get out of the cue I'm in at Abel Cine Tech and wait for the next build of the BMCC. I tried my best to wait, but the R1, although double the price, will allow me to shoot 4K RAW and 2K 120fps for as long as I can lug the thing around. If anyone has any questions about budgeting the R1MX or info on the Kineraw feel free to PM me.

I still love this Blackmagic baby, just not enough to be stood up on every date.

I hope everyone gets a holiday update and their cameras before Christmas. Happy Thanksgiving.
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jasonxinzhou

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 2:23 pm

LincolnL wrote:

Ok, this is my first post after spending many, many weeks just observing in frustration. First let me thank the regulars here (Costa, mhood, Nick Bedford, Peter J. DeCrescenzo, Talkonaut, Paul DelVecchio) for posing questions and complaints, humor and patience, all mixed in with the consistently valid point of view of customers left on the hook. Some think that particular comments were heresy, that being anything but grateful was "whining or conspiracy theory".

These comments kept the community active and out front, and filled in black empty voids that would not have needed to be addressed if it was coming from the source; it wasn't. I made a decision a week ago to go with the R1 MX, because it was a great deal and I'm used to shooting with a "tank" from my days of shooting with the Aaton before diving into digital. I should get it by early December. My last film was shot with the GH2 which I will be keeping for a while.

I got a gig in China in September and am teaching at a university and getting ready to shoot here. For those of you interested in the Kineraw, it's available now, but the support and sales staff make you appreciate BM warts and all. Even though I'm in the manufacturer's back yard, I didn't feel I could jump in. For those waiting for the S16 version, the contact told me that it was "nowhere near ready" for release. If I'm going to pay more than the BMCC I want S35, frame rates and a track record. So I went with Red.

I see a lot of people saying "good luck, buddy you'll need about 10,000.00+ to get it working", but either they just parrot what they see elsewhere or do their buying from brochures. Yes the SSD 64GB is ridiculously priced, but with that and the docking station to offload the mags you are still under 5K. I am lucky I have a friend from NYU who makes a lot of stuff for Red OEM, including the Nikon lens mount, so I'm getting that, rails and a handle for under 500.00. Again, I am fortunate being in the place where most batteries are made, where I can get V-mounts and a charger for under 300.00. An HDMI monitor, and all the rig accessories and lenses I own will do just fine, so I'm under 6K and ready to rock.

I will probably abandon my hopes and get out of the cue I'm in at Abel Cine Tech and wait for the next build of the BMCC. I tried my best to wait, but the R1, although double the price, will allow me to shoot 4K RAW and 2K 120fps for as long as I can lug the thing around. If anyone has any questions about budgeting the R1MX or info on the Kineraw feel free to PM me.

I still love this Blackmagic baby, just not enough to be stood up on every date.

I hope everyone gets a holiday update and their cameras before Christmas. Happy Thanksgiving.
Are you in China now?
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 3:31 pm

Taikonaut wrote:There is Digital Bolex and Kineraw that we already know about, believe me there will be competitors.


If Digital Bolex actually happens I'll be very surprised, and yet it's still not a competitor. You can likely count on those guys never doing a camera again, either.

Kineraw Mini by March of 2013? Aren't they still trying to get their first camera out of the door? Also, they can't sell stateside as of yet. And what about the insane rolling shutter that's being reported? Worse than MKII is a pretty bad way to start off. Likleyhood of similar/amazing Blackmagic color science? What about Dynamic Range? The current Kineraw's said to hit eleven no?

I guess it's this conversation again, but when I think "competitor" I am thinking someone that offers something equal to or better than what's available at a give price point, matching features etc. So, yeah, who's going to offer a competing product in the span of three-to-four months that'll be shipping by the third quarter of 2013?

=P
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Jeggintonfilms

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 3:47 pm

^ Arri. Watch this space ....
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David

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 3:51 pm

Taikonaut wrote:
Ryan McCarvill wrote:
sean mclennan wrote:You know I never thought of that. I'm going to NAB this year...maybe I should wait to see if anything amazing is brought out?

But that's sooooooo far away. I want to move from my 5D to a full camera sooner than that. I was really hoping to have mine by December :(


If its a smaller manufacturer then whatever is announced at Nab probably wont be available for several months, by NAB BM would have lost year of head start but that isn't much time to get a complicated product to market.

The only thing that can really entice me over Blackmagic are cameras with the same image and more framerate options, I'm invested in MFT lenses at the moment so a bigger sensor wouldn't do it, unless it was the step up to a MFT sensor.

I might wait for NAB if my camera isn't projected to arrive until March, but seriously who is going to come out with a competitor? All the major camera companies have recently refreshed their lineup (although panasonic could hardly be called a refresh), I'm no longer interested in the compromise of DSLR shooting; gopro is rumored - however I see gopro as a flash in the pan type company like flip was. Pretty soon cell phones will be shock and water resistant and then gopro is dead.


There is Digital Bolex and Kineraw that we already know about, believe me there will be competitors.


The Digital Bolex exists only as a crusty sock next to some hipsters bed. Good luck if your holding out for that.
David Daniel
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 4:36 pm

LincolnL wrote:
Ok, this is my first post after spending many, many weeks just observing in frustration. First let me thank the regulars here (Costa, mhood, Nick Bedford, Peter J. DeCrescenzo, Talkonaut, Paul DelVecchio) for posing questions and complaints, humor and patience, all mixed in with the consistently valid point of view of customers left on the hook. Some think that particular comments were heresy, that being anything but grateful was "whining or conspiracy theory".

These comments kept the community active and out front, and filled in black empty voids that would not have needed to be addressed if it was coming from the source; it wasn't. I made a decision a week ago to go with the R1 MX, because it was a great deal and I'm used to shooting with a "tank" from my days of shooting with the Aaton before diving into digital. I should get it by early December. My last film was shot with the GH2 which I will be keeping for a while.

I got a gig in China in September and am teaching at a university and getting ready to shoot here. For those of you interested in the Kineraw, it's available now, but the support and sales staff make you appreciate BM warts and all. Even though I'm in the manufacturer's back yard, I didn't feel I could jump in. For those waiting for the S16 version, the contact told me that it was "nowhere near ready" for release. If I'm going to pay more than the BMCC I want S35, frame rates and a track record. So I went with Red.

I see a lot of people saying "good luck, buddy you'll need about 10,000.00+ to get it working", but either they just parrot what they see elsewhere or do their buying from brochures. Yes the SSD 64GB is ridiculously priced, but with that and the docking station to offload the mags you are still under 5K. I am lucky I have a friend from NYU who makes a lot of stuff for Red OEM, including the Nikon lens mount, so I'm getting that, rails and a handle for under 500.00. Again, I am fortunate being in the place where most batteries are made, where I can get V-mounts and a charger for under 300.00. An HDMI monitor, and all the rig accessories and lenses I own will do just fine, so I'm under 6K and ready to rock.

I will probably abandon my hopes and get out of the cue I'm in at Abel Cine Tech and wait for the next build of the BMCC. I tried my best to wait, but the R1, although double the price, will allow me to shoot 4K RAW and 2K 120fps for as long as I can lug the thing around. If anyone has any questions about budgeting the R1MX or info on the Kineraw feel free to PM me.

I still love this Blackmagic baby, just not enough to be stood up on every date.

I hope everyone gets a holiday update and their cameras before Christmas. Happy Thanksgiving.


Thanks for the kind words! I don't believe in bending over and getting a seeing to by the big companies just because they have insane fanboys:) I'm honest about the way I feel and I'm glad people like yourself have been listening!

I am at the point where I may well cancel.. I am going to give it until the end of this month and see what comes of it!

I also love how people have taken your post and seen someone else's response to competition and started to run into a fanboy frenzy with it, rather than replying ro what YOU have said... it's a bit rude:)
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sean mclennan

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Right now....you are correct. NAB is almost 6 months away though, so who knows.

Interesting tease about Arri....but do you think their business model would really include the consumer level? I can't see Arri coming out with anything less than $20K. Which would still be a massive event if it happened, but if I had $20K, I'd already have a Red.

God I hope BM doesn't take 6 more months!
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 5:10 pm

I think the Arri blurb was a joke, because it definitely made me giggle.

Arri competing at a sub 20K level. THAT is hilarious.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 5:37 pm

LincolnL wrote:Ok, this is my first post after spending many, many weeks just observing in frustration. First let me thank the regulars here (Costa, mhood, Nick Bedford, Peter J. DeCrescenzo, Talkonaut, Paul DelVecchio) for posing questions and complaints, humor and patience, all mixed in with the consistently valid point of view of customers left on the hook. Some think that particular comments were heresy, that being anything but grateful was "whining or conspiracy theory".

These comments kept the community active and out front, and filled in black empty voids that would not have needed to be addressed if it was coming from the source; it wasn't. I made a decision a week ago to go with the R1 MX, because it was a great deal and I'm used to shooting with a "tank" from my days of shooting with the Aaton before diving into digital. I should get it by early December. My last film was shot with the GH2 which I will be keeping for a while.

I got a gig in China in September and am teaching at a university and getting ready to shoot here. For those of you interested in the Kineraw, it's available now, but the support and sales staff make you appreciate BM warts and all. Even though I'm in the manufacturer's back yard, I didn't feel I could jump in. For those waiting for the S16 version, the contact told me that it was "nowhere near ready" for release. If I'm going to pay more than the BMCC I want S35, frame rates and a track record. So I went with Red.

I see a lot of people saying "good luck, buddy you'll need about 10,000.00+ to get it working", but either they just parrot what they see elsewhere or do their buying from brochures. Yes the SSD 64GB is ridiculously priced, but with that and the docking station to offload the mags you are still under 5K. I am lucky I have a friend from NYU who makes a lot of stuff for Red OEM, including the Nikon lens mount, so I'm getting that, rails and a handle for under 500.00. Again, I am fortunate being in the place where most batteries are made, where I can get V-mounts and a charger for under 300.00. An HDMI monitor, and all the rig accessories and lenses I own will do just fine, so I'm under 6K and ready to rock.

I will probably abandon my hopes and get out of the cue I'm in at Abel Cine Tech and wait for the next build of the BMCC. I tried my best to wait, but the R1, although double the price, will allow me to shoot 4K RAW and 2K 120fps for as long as I can lug the thing around. If anyone has any questions about budgeting the R1MX or info on the Kineraw feel free to PM me.

I still love this Blackmagic baby, just not enough to be stood up on every date.

I hope everyone gets a holiday update and their cameras before Christmas. Happy Thanksgiving.



Enjoy your RED camera. Definitely an amazing camera and worth every penny. What an amazing deal that was! Too bad they're sold out now.
Paul Del Vecchio - Director/Producer
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 6:34 pm

Kholi wrote:I think the Arri blurb was a joke, because it definitely made me giggle.

Arri competing at a sub 20K level. THAT is hilarious.


I agree it's unlikely but you seem to be laughing too hard... BMD aren't the only one's that can make cheap camera's. Thing is, with Arri you get support and quality and a camera delivered when its supposed to and not 6-7 months AFTER release date;)
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 7:10 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:... The plan at the moment is to do a small production run this week and we hope to get those sensors next week where we can build cameras using them and see how it all goes.

But things are looking quite good. This run of cameras next week will test the sensor supplier's ability to build sensors without contamination and to also be able to test them correctly so we only get good sensors. If that's all ok then we look like we will be able to move back into production.

I will update everyone next week when we know. I also hope to have more info on how fast they can ramp up with this new supplier and the new test. ...


Hi Grant: I hope the small production run is/was successful. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Looking forward to hearing how things are progressing, good news or bad. Cheers!


Bump.
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aprilliasky

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 7:26 pm

Luke Armstrong wrote:It seems that real competition for the BMCC is really not all that far off at all.

This via FXguide:

Mini Kineraw announced (Via Matthew Allard (mattaljazeera) on Twitter) There will be Kineraw MINI very soon.

Features:

Only record CinemaDNG codec, No Cineform codec
Much smaller and lighter than KR. May be in your palm.

Same Sensor with KR, so it is S35 too. Same amzaing image quality then.
Fanless
Build-in Li+ Battery which may work 5 hours
Single SSD
Dual HDMI, but No build-in SDI
Same mounting system with KR, electronic Iris EF mount support
Audio is 2.5mm MIC in.

starting from 3999 USD release date TBA

Taken from: http://media.fxguide.com/the_rc/the_rc-121-notes.pdf



For me the BMCC will cost only 2000 USD! Why?

I'm an assistant colorist who started this profession two years for now. I built my own color correction suite and my workstation was designed especially for Davinci. Though I only used Davinci Lite, because clients didn't need larger than 1080p resolution so far. Even if they shot something on RED. However I decided to buy a full Davinci by the end of the year (need more GPU's and export resolution...) and BOOM! The camera came in.

It made me clear to buy the camera instead of the software. As it is a good investment, and I own already a few Black Magic products. How does this come to the Chinese Alexa? Easy!

If I had any problems with my Decklink products, BD answered me the same day. They solved my problems. They saved me time and money!

Well I don't have experiences with Kinefinity, but I used to make business in China with way much more expensive products. Belive me guys, If there is no European or American reseller and service, you don't want that nightmare that will happen once there is a problem with the KineRaw. It is just a total mess and will make you extra costs.

If you don't belive me check out Kinefinity's website. I could draw a better one in Microsoft Paint and I'm not joking! The website is not working properly, it is full of bugs and lacks basic informations about the company and the product. What do you expect the camera to be?

Did you heard that an Iphone 4 costs around 150 USD to produce for the manufacturer. Usually it is not the hardware you pay, but the services+profit. This is why Arri or Filmlight products cost so much.

http://www.kineraw.com/index.asp

So I will buy this camera if it ships before the end of February. If not, than I'll wait till NAB comes and who knows... Maybe I'll buy Davinci+ an other camera or BMCC or BMCC 2! :lol:
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Abobakr M. Alshiblie

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 7:40 pm

Costa Louvieris wrote:
Kholi wrote:I think the Arri blurb was a joke, because it definitely made me giggle.

Arri competing at a sub 20K level. THAT is hilarious.


I agree it's unlikely but you seem to be laughing too hard... BMD aren't the only one's that can make cheap camera's. Thing is, with Arri you get support and quality and a camera delivered when its supposed to and not 6-7 months AFTER release date;)


I don't think we will see anything new hit with arri this coming NAB.. One of representatives at the Arri booth on the last NAB Show was saying that they are not trying to have a fast change.. They consider themselves in the business of allowing their customers to earn a living, to make money. So they are shooting for a really long products cycle. So they are supporting the Alexa line cameras, and now they have five different models.. they have a number of new software features cooking for the Alexa.. and throughout this year and next year they will be introducing new features for the Alexa to keep the camera current and up to date.. and allow the people to have some peace and make their money back with this camera!
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Pollenstudio

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 11:42 pm

I'd love an update. We've just booked another 2 shoots before Christmas, both of which are chroma key. We are having to hire in cameras to do the production, which is costing us money....
Tom Sefton
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Ryan McCarvill

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostThu Nov 22, 2012 11:52 pm

KineRaw and Digital Bollocks are not very likely from what I've seen.

Maybe Ikonoscop will drop their prices.
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 12:37 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:
Kholi wrote:I think the Arri blurb was a joke, because it definitely made me giggle.

Arri competing at a sub 20K level. THAT is hilarious.


I agree it's unlikely but you seem to be laughing too hard... BMD aren't the only one's that can make cheap camera's. Thing is, with Arri you get support and quality and a camera delivered when its supposed to and not 6-7 months AFTER release date;)


You also pay sixty thousand dollars. So, give and take. And not even the proper comparison.
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 1:14 am

Kholi wrote:You also pay sixty thousand dollars.


Sixty grand is chump change. What were we paying for HL79EALs in full studio config with CCU and 100 meters of cable? And if you didn't have at least three of them, you didn't have a truck. Cost is relative...when everybody has all the camera they need for $3000, it's not about the camera anymore. Of course, it's always been about the Indian but we just let money hide that fact sometimes.

;)
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MattStone

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 4:51 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:Hi Grant: I hope the small production run is/was successful. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Looking forward to hearing how things are progressing, good news or bad. Cheers!

Bump.


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LincolnL

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 5:57 am

I hope everyone gets a holiday update and their cameras before Christmas. Happy Thanksgiving.[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words! I don't believe in bending over and getting a seeing to by the big companies just because they have insane fanboys:) I'm honest about the way I feel and I'm glad people like yourself have been listening!

I am at the point where I may well cancel.. I am going to give it until the end of this month and see what comes of it!

I also love how people have taken your post and seen someone else's response to competition and started to run into a fanboy frenzy with it, rather than replying ro what YOU have said... it's a bit rude:)[/quote]

I wouldn't know, like some of your detractors I have a friends/enemy list too, so I don't have to get into any Thanksgiving dysfunctional dialogues with "crazy but loveable uncle Bob who shoots short movies and thinks he's a studio". I'll be coming back to purchase the camera later after everything is smoothed out, and I don't think that makes me less a fan, just not a customer right now. I just waited until I couldn't anymore.

I got a lot of catching up to do in the meantime on the Red workflow, gearing up and shooting with a large brick on my shoulder. It's been 12 years since I shot my first feature with the Aaton, and I'm not as spry as I used to be. Again, good luck to everyone here, once the camera is in your loving hands I'm sure there will be some great work out there. I think this is a great diverse community of content creators (hence the ruckus), much more so than Red, but perhaps that will change with the new guns slinging the R1s.

Now go reheat some stuffing and enjoy a long weekend away from updateland!

Oh and here's who I contacted at Kineraw- jihua.zheng@kinefinity.com. He's the representative that told me there is no detailed date for the S16 release. If I can manage to get over to check out the camera, I'll post what I find out.
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LincolnL

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 6:01 am

[/quote]Are you in China now?[/quote]

Yup. If you're near Wuhan give me a shout. I go to Shanghai every other weekend for archery practice.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 7:12 am

End of the week and the promised update has yet to arrive... I guess there is still a few hours of the daylight and working hours left over there in Oz... here's hoping we get something in the next few hours!

Trust must be fading fast, even with the most hardened BMD fanboy after the countless missed dates and lies:(
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:10 am

Frustration, sure, but loss in trust? Not at all; not from me...not from the people I hang with, either. If people felt that much loss in trust like the way you seem to describe (over and over again) then tons of people would have started building their own cameras. How many manufacturers have been tardy on projected release dates before? Let me see: only all of them. Nope, no loss in trust here. The camera ships to my door and it fails to perform as advertised, then I'll lose trust.
Jason R. Johnston
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Nikolaus Hayo

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:22 am

Watch this video in HD and fullscreen resolution pls.
This will sweeten our waiting a bit : 'Drive Through Snow Canyon' by Andrew Julian

https://vimeo.com/54121694

niko
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adamroberts

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:23 am

I still have trust in BMD. When they have info to share they do. No point in post "we have no new info". That's as pointless as all the whinning in this thread.

The camera will ship when it's ready. Simple.

You don't see any other £2000 RAW camera out there do you? So then it ain't that simple to make else we'd be flooded with options.

Have a cup of tea, put your feet up and relax. All this whinning is not good for your health.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 10:19 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:Frustration, sure, but loss in trust? Not at all; not from me...not from the people I hang with, either. If people felt that much loss in trust like the way you seem to describe (over and over again) then tons of people would have started building their own cameras. How many manufacturers have been tardy on projected release dates before? Let me see: only all of them. Nope, no loss in trust here. The camera ships to my door and it fails to perform as advertised, then I'll lose trust.


So your answer to the constant delays is for me to build my own camera? I'm confused... and can you name some manufacturers that gave a specific date and did not meet the deadlines 6 months down the line?

adamroberts wrote:I still have trust in BMD. When they have info to share they do. No point in post "we have no new info". That's as pointless as all the whinning in this thread.

The camera will ship when it's ready. Simple.

You don't see any other £2000 RAW camera out there do you? So then it ain't that simple to make else we'd be flooded with options.

Have a cup of tea, put your feet up and relax. All this whinning is not good for your health.


The fact remains that the last update said there would be an update this week... and the 2k excuse it wearing thin... I don't care if it was £500. There is no excuse for being this late AND then not updating when you say you will.
Last edited by Costa Louvieris on Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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AndiDieMaus

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 10:41 am

Update please!
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:02 am

AndiDieMaus wrote:Update please!


It's 22:00 in the evening now in Melbourne... looks like another day and another BMD disappointment:(
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:10 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:Frustration, sure, but loss in trust? Not at all; not from me...not from the people I hang with, either. If people felt that much loss in trust like the way you seem to describe (over and over again) then tons of people would have started building their own cameras. How many manufacturers have been tardy on projected release dates before? Let me see: only all of them. Nope, no loss in trust here. The camera ships to my door and it fails to perform as advertised, then I'll lose trust.


I started building my own camera about a week ago. Sadly the parts I have consist of the sensor from a 550D, some play-dough, a small plastic box with a circular hole cut in it, a hdmi cable taped to the sensor and a floppy disk to the other end and a zeiss prime uhu glued to the plastic box. It isn't very good.

If anyone would like to invest, I am selling shares in my new camera venture at £1000 per go.

Until I receive 25 shares, I will be waiting for my BMCC to arrive and spending time developing the firmware for my camera. If I get enough shares, I will also be offering hire of a RED camera kit at a daily rate of £700 (this is totally unrelated and in no way a result of a shareholder dividend payout).
Last edited by Pollenstudio on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jesuan

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:27 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:
Jason R. Johnston wrote:Frustration, sure, but loss in trust? Not at all; not from me...not from the people I hang with, either. If people felt that much loss in trust like the way you seem to describe (over and over again) then tons of people would have started building their own cameras. How many manufacturers have been tardy on projected release dates before? Let me see: only all of them. Nope, no loss in trust here. The camera ships to my door and it fails to perform as advertised, then I'll lose trust.


So your answer to the constant delays is for me to build my own camera? I'm confused... and can you name some manufacturers that gave a specific date and did not meet the deadlines 6 months down the line?

adamroberts wrote:I still have trust in BMD. When they have info to share they do. No point in post "we have no new info". That's as pointless as all the whinning in this thread.

The camera will ship when it's ready. Simple.

You don't see any other £2000 RAW camera out there do you? So then it ain't that simple to make else we'd be flooded with options.

Have a cup of tea, put your feet up and relax. All this whinning is not good for your health.


The fact remains that the last update said there would be an update this week... and the 2k excuse it wearing thin... I don't care if it was £500. There is no excuse for being this late AND then not updating when you say you will.


I'm starting to agree more with you........I'm worried :D
But yes, there are more excuses than updates. It's ok a $3k camera....but if we can not have it, price is not a benefit... Trust is something really difficult to earn but really easy to loose.

Jesus
Jesus.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 1:26 pm

Well, another Friday morning in Texas. I just got my cup of coffee and staggered back here to my office (even though it's a holiday today). As I always do for the last several months, I hop on this forum to read the update Grant promised he'd give us. ...

(and "no new news" does qualify as an update and an act of respect)
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 2:13 pm

Pollenstudio wrote:
Jason R. Johnston wrote:Frustration, sure, but loss in trust? Not at all; not from me...not from the people I hang with, either. If people felt that much loss in trust like the way you seem to describe (over and over again) then tons of people would have started building their own cameras. How many manufacturers have been tardy on projected release dates before? Let me see: only all of them. Nope, no loss in trust here. The camera ships to my door and it fails to perform as advertised, then I'll lose trust.


I started building my own camera about a week ago. Sadly the parts I have consist of the sensor from a 550D, some play-dough, a small plastic box with a circular hole cut in it, a hdmi cable taped to the sensor and a floppy disk to the other end and a zeiss prime uhu glued to the plastic box. It isn't very good.

If anyone would like to invest, I am selling shares in my new camera venture at £1000 per go.



Ok, your marketing isn't great. But other than that it pretty much sounds like the digital bolex playbook.

Just get a cool hat and a goatee and I'll paypal right now!
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Pollenstudio

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 2:29 pm

I have a flat cap and I can grow a pretty good beard?
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David

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 2:35 pm

A FLAT cap? Daymmm. Do you need investors? Business partner? All we need now is a Williamsburg hipster for a trade show model and NAB here we come!
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Albert N. Romero

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 3:31 pm

mhood wrote:Well, another Friday morning in Texas. I just got my cup of coffee and staggered back here to my office (even though it's a holiday today). As I always do for the last several months, I hop on this forum to read the update Grant promised he'd give us. ...

(and "no new news" does qualify as an update and an act of respect)


Well, another Friday afternoon-that-seems-night-cos-its-16.00-and-is-darker-than-at-03.00-AM. in Berlin. Just got my 3rd cup of coffee....

no holiday today here, but the rest is exactly the same
anybody else?
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 7:57 pm

Look what the cat just dragged in today... :)

Image

And yeah it's a much smaller sensor.. but it's for a "specialty" application where even the BMC would be too large and heavy and still RAW is required... testing the image quality this weekend if it holds up...
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:21 pm

i pre-ordered my bmcc 5 mos ago, my reseller told me this week after they got an update from bmd that im not going to see my camera till march or april due to backlog of preorders and slow progress/shipping vol. challenges. but you know what? im not worried, im now beyond caring. i have another cam that can pull me thru till then. so i suggest everyone just stop checking this site and be patient. it will come when it comes. clearly, no amount of complaining or encouragement will improve bmds interest or ability to deliver sooner rather than later. i do believe they are doing their best. and why should they give an update when there is nothing to update? kind of redundant, no?
Last edited by marcs on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:29 pm

Grant Petty wrote:The plan at the moment is to do a small production run this week and we hope to get those sensors next week where we can build cameras using them and see how it all goes.

But things are looking quite good. This run of cameras next week will test the sensor supplier's ability to build sensors without contamination and to also be able to test them correctly so we only get good sensors. If that's all ok then we look like we will be able to move back into production.

I will update everyone next week when we know. I also hope to have more info on how fast they can ramp up with this new supplier and the new test.


That certainly sets the stage for a VERY important update this week. Come on man!
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:45 pm

Grant did say

"We will update next week WHEN WE KNOW"

jb
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 12:12 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:... and can you name some manufacturers that gave a specific date and did not meet the deadlines 6 months down the line?


RED.

The original scarlet was never delivered after...2 years ?

EPIC was late by nearly a year.

RED MX was very late delivering

Bomb EVF's were 2 years late delivering and they even withdrew the original EVF so you couldn't even BUY an EVF for a RED camera for quite a while.

I've never seen the original RED SSD RAID that you could buy on the RED site for more than 2 years.

Looks like the Mysler modules I was planning on using in December won't be shipping...

Zeiss just told me that the 135mm CP2 I ordered (as soon as it was able to be ordered)  has had its delivery pushed back again, from December to February at the earliest. (it was announced in April)

Panasonic are chronically months and years late with nearly every broadcast camera they make, especially if you want 25FPS 50Hz versions of their cameras, from the AF100 up to their studio cameras

Again.  You're making assertions that just aren't true.  Let's stop hey ?



Costa Louvieris wrote: There is no excuse for being this late AND then not updating when you say you will.


If there is no excuse then you should definitely move on and you won't have to be so disappointed.  

BMD and this camera clearly isn't for you.  They haven't won your trust so you should find something else that doesn't keep you posting incessantly about it being delayed.  Clearly it's keeping you awake at night.

jb
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Dave Dominguez

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 12:26 am

I wish i could move on, but nothing shoots nearly as good at BMCC's price point.
https://vimeo.com/daviddominguez
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 1:02 am

John Brawley wrote:
Costa Louvieris wrote:... and can you name some manufacturers that gave a specific date and did not meet the deadlines 6 months down the line?


RED.

The original scarlet was never delivered after...2 years ?

EPIC was late by nearly a year.

RED MX was very late delivering

Bomb EVF's were 2 years late delivering and they even withdrew the original EVF so you couldn't even BUY an EVF for a RED camera for quite a while.

I've never seen the original RED SSD RAID that you could buy on the RED site for more than 2 years.

Looks like the Mysler modules I was planning on using in December won't be shipping...

Zeiss just told me that the 135mm CP2 I ordered (as soon as it was able to be ordered)  has had its delivery pushed back again, from December to February at the earliest. (it was announced in April)

Panasonic are chronically months and years late with nearly every broadcast camera they make, especially if you want 25FPS 50Hz versions of their cameras, from the AF100 up to their studio cameras

Again.  You're making assertions that just aren't true.  Let's stop hey ?



Costa Louvieris wrote: There is no excuse for being this late AND then not updating when you say you will.


If there is no excuse then you should definitely move on and you won't have to be so disappointed.  

BMD and this camera clearly isn't for you.  They haven't won your trust so you should find something else that doesn't keep you posting incessantly about it being delayed.  Clearly it's keeping you awake at night.

jb


Ah RED... pretty sure I asked for a company that released EXACT dates... I may be wrong but didn't RED always give approx dates? They never said "End of July 2012" for example and made a big deal out of it;)

As I stated before I will wait until the end of this month before moving on to another camera! However even then I will still post here complaining until people get their camera and do you know why jb? Because it's a free world;)
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 1:40 am

Not to be adversarial.. Red was actually over 3 years late with the original 3K Scarlet pocket camera.. I know this because I was going to buy one.. They had the little camera in fancy displays at NAB and other shows around the world.. then they pulled it from the market when Canon announced the 5Dmk2.. which I ended up buying because RED crapped out on their 3K for $3K cinema camera.. :)
So.. yes.. 3 years late
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 2:23 am

all this talk isnt productive...just be content to wait.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 3:41 am

John Brawley wrote:Grant did say

"We will update next week WHEN WE KNOW"

jb


"WHEN WE KNOW" suggest to me Grant will know by next week which is now.
It is not a matter of "if" but "when".
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 3:51 am

For the life of me, I do not understand when people asking legitimate questions about late shipping of BMCC, on a blackmagic forum under shipping threat concerning promises made and not kept by a blackmagic staff, end up being called whiners! I just don't get it! I have clients and if I tell them something about their order, I have to keep my word.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 3:56 am

Kholi wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:There is Digital Bolex and Kineraw that we already know about, believe me there will be competitors.


If Digital Bolex actually happens I'll be very surprised, and yet it's still not a competitor. You can likely count on those guys never doing a camera again, either.

Kineraw Mini by March of 2013? Aren't they still trying to get their first camera out of the door? Also, they can't sell stateside as of yet. And what about the insane rolling shutter that's being reported? Worse than MKII is a pretty bad way to start off. Likleyhood of similar/amazing Blackmagic color science? What about Dynamic Range? The current Kineraw's said to hit eleven no?

I guess it's this conversation again, but when I think "competitor" I am thinking someone that offers something equal to or better than what's available at a give price point, matching features etc. So, yeah, who's going to offer a competing product in the span of three-to-four months that'll be shipping by the third quarter of 2013?

=P


You have to waite for NAB 2013 to find out otherwise it would'nt be NAB if there is no surprises. I hope whoever unleash upon us their next new toys can be more realistic about the shipping date and learn from the bad PR by BMD which is drastically undoing what is otherwise a great product.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 4:00 am

brilliantimage wrote:For the life of me, I do not understand when people asking legitimate questions about late shipping of BMCC, on a blackmagic forum under shipping threat concerning promises made and not kept by a blackmagic staff, end up being called whiners! I just don't get it! I have clients and if I tell them something about their order, I have to keep my word.


It is those few apologists and old pals act at work. Just ignore them and keep up the pressure. If people say nothing BMD will just slack and forget the whole darn thing ever happen and move on to their next fad.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 7:13 am

Taikonaut wrote:
brilliantimage wrote:For the life of me, I do not understand when people asking legitimate questions about late shipping of BMCC, on a blackmagic forum under shipping threat concerning promises made and not kept by a blackmagic staff, end up being called whiners! I just don't get it! I have clients and if I tell them something about their order, I have to keep my word.


It is those few apologists and old pals act at work. Just ignore them and keep up the pressure. If people say nothing BMD will just slack and forget the whole darn thing ever happen and move on to their next fad.


And a post on a forum is pressure how....are you serious ?

Especially when it's repetative by the same people over and over and over and over and over again.

For goodness sake !

Am pretty sure BMD drivers are to get cameras rolling out the door as fast as possible, regardless of the nonsense that goes on here.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 7:25 am

Apparently the more you complain the further down in the pre-order queue you go.
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Andrew Usher

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/15

PostSat Nov 24, 2012 11:36 am

I moved on, got a Red Scarlet, to get a working package came in almost 5 times the cost of the BMCC. Was it worth it, yes, i love the camera, am i still rooting for BMCC, yes i am, but i no longer feel the frustration with the delays etc, and hope to pick one up next year.

At the end of the day is just a tool, and being a cynical Scot, i dont drink Kool aid, no matter where it is.

A.
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