What you think?

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Ulysses Paiva

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What you think?

PostFri Apr 28, 2017 2:32 pm

Hey, guys!

I would like to know your opinion and appreciate very much if you take a few seconds to tell anything. I'm purposedly not providing any info right now for the sake of it, only that it's a TV commercial.

Any input is helpful, be it about the grading, lighting, compositing... anything.
Thanks for taking the time.

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Benton Collins

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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 5:58 am

This scene doesn't appear to be lit, or if it is, it is under lit. The models eyes and sockets are very dark. I would create a large soft light source on the left of the camera either with an extra large 6' x 8' soft box or an 8'x8' "Book light" using diffusion silk and two white foam core flats. Bounce an HMI (or high power LED fresnel) into the corner of the two 90 degree flats and diffuse the bounced light at the open end with the diffusion. Add a hard hair light behind the model opposite the key light just out of frame. To complete the job, hang large overhead white panels over the cars behind the model and bounce light into them from two HMI or high power LED fresnels that are on stands just out of the frame. I would also square up your center framing so it's perfect. Move the red car to the right, so it's rear is just to the edge of the frame and move the silver/white car to the right as well, until its rear is on the left edge of the frame. Even better would be to use a different color car that separates better from the background. I think using a higher camera angle and tilting down would fill out the frame better as well and crop out the skylight above her head. Work on filling the background with the two cars as much as you can. THEN bring in your model and move her till she fills the frame from the waist as you have her, but with less headroom from her head to the top of the frame. Adding some strip lights on the floor shooting up at the cars could add a nice touch too. But you'll have to be careful with reflections.

Good luck!
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 2:03 pm

...but you can't afford any of that, so I'll just say +1 on the need to light the talent better. Her eyes are dead and that ain't good. She has "raccoon eyes." Colors could be more neutral if the lights you used were daylight balanced to match the ambient skylight. With skylights that big, that interior needs to be treated like an exterior.
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Benton Collins

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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 2:32 pm

Jason R. Johnston wrote:...but you can't afford any of that, so I'll just say +1 on the need to light the talent better. Her eyes are dead and that ain't good. She has "raccoon eyes." Colors could be more neutral if the lights you used were daylight balanced to match the ambient skylight. With skylights that big, that interior needs to be treated like an exterior.

Absolutely, what I suggested is not cheap. If there is a suitable available daylight source, a large bounce reflector or reflectors could be effective. The main thing is to fix is the shadowy eyes. Even an inexpensive led panel left of the camera would pep up the model and put a sparkle in her eyes.
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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 3:12 pm

Cheap tipp: level the camera.
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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 3:33 pm

Hey, guys!

Thanks for the feedback.
Benton and Jason, maybe its me but I think what you're saying about her eyes is because, I dont know how to say it in English (we men are terrible with girls names for make up, colors and stuff), the make up artist put that black ring around her cilia and she has dark brown eyes. Also, she is smiling/closing her eyes in this frame so I think that contributes to see her eyes darker than they should. If you look closely, her eyebags are lit which probably adds to what I said. Or have I got it wrong?

She just cant stand still in the same place for a second, even with ground tape marking the spot, so that not perfect center... well... indeed was hard to center. :D

I was framing for the thirds rule, putting her eye line in the top thirds line. It was more of a experiment because I was never too attatched to that thirds rule anyway. And indeed the camera should have been a little higher. From a wider angle it doesnt show that much but the close ups became very evident. That was a rush shoot.

The place dont have walls so had light coming from everywhere and, besides the ceiling making some shadow, it also had those openings making light enter in an uncontrolable way. She had a softbox to the left of the screen and a tungsten hair light coming from the back to the right (see the hair on the right side) and a negative fill on the right also.

The overall exposure was much brighter and was dialed down in post.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 7:52 pm

Ulysses Paiva wrote:Hey, guys!

Thanks for the feedback.
Benton and Jason, maybe its me but I think what you're saying about her eyes is because, I dont know how to say it in English (we men are terrible with girls names for make up, colors and stuff), the make up artist put that black ring around her cilia and she has dark brown eyes. Also, she is smiling/closing her eyes in this frame so I think that contributes to see her eyes darker than they should. If you look closely, her eyebags are lit which probably adds to what I said. Or have I got it wrong?

She just cant stand still in the same place for a second, even with ground tape marking the spot, so that not perfect center... well... indeed was hard to center. :D

I was framing for the thirds rule, putting her eye line in the top thirds line. It was more of a experiment because I was never too attatched to that thirds rule anyway. And indeed the camera should have been a little higher. From a wider angle it doesnt show that much but the close ups became very evident. That was a rush shoot.

The place dont have walls so had light coming from everywhere and, besides the ceiling making some shadow, it also had those openings making light enter in an uncontrolable way. She had a softbox to the left of the screen and a tungsten hair light coming from the back to the right (see the hair on the right side) and a negative fill on the right also.

The overall exposure was much brighter and was dialed down in post.

The shadows under her eyes are pretty dark. You need to give her a bit of fill light to cure the coon eyes look, and a soft fill will help to soften the bags under her eyes. The over the head lighting accentuates them.

On thing that you might be able to do is to move the model so that the skylight is a little in front of her, which would give her a little soft wraparound, and then you can fill in the shadows with a bounce from below or a flooded out light (or Tota or similar) bounced off of or through a large diffusion. Then relocate the rim light.

Framing wise, ignore the rule of thirds like any good visual artist and frame based on what draws the eye. Her headroom is ok though you could have her a little bit higher in the frame with the camera along her eyeline with a slight downward tilt, a classic beauty shot technique. Also watch for parts og cars near edges of the frame, they'll have quite a bit of visual weight that will draw the viewer's eye.

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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: What you think?

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 11:45 pm

Thanks, Rakesh!

That opening in the ceiling goes all the way from one end to the other, so moving her wouldn't change much. The client is a mall that sells cars so several car shops under the same roof, that's why there are a lot of cars. Initially I framed and marked the spot on the floor with thins more centered and the back of that car out of the frame but as I said, she couldnt stop moving even with a floor mark and the script telling she's just standing still and talking to the camera. So, for a 1 morning only shoot, came a time that I left it recording and just reframed the camera as she moved out of spot each time she had to repeat her phrases. I just moved the tripod between takes, so each take took minutes and for fast turnaround I just panned or tilted the camera.
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Re: What you think?

PostSun Apr 30, 2017 6:04 am

Just one thing to bring some life into her eyes: put a small light onto the camera.

While lighting a face from the camera would make it look very flat, a tiny light will bring some sparkle into the eyes. Even dark eyes, since our eyeballs are reflective. If you want something a bit more fancy, for ladies in particular, get a ring light around your lens.

Of course, the effect depends on your focal length and distance from the talent.
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: What you think?

PostMon May 01, 2017 4:34 am

That's why we have the Obie.

And it's not really a rule of thirds. It's more of a suggestion. :D It helps us get to an interesting framing, but itself is not interesting. Drawing the eye into your composition is especially important in advertising as you only have a second to draw in the viewer to a TVC.
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