Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

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Timothy Cook

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 1:59 am

Funny-Quote-If-you-cant-explain-it-simply-Einstein.jpg
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:D
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 9:44 am

Timothy Cook wrote:
Funny-Quote-If-you-cant-explain-it-simply-Einstein.jpg


:D


Lol! That's definitely wrong. It should read "If you can't understand a simple explanation". Unfortunately that is all to true. You explain it simply and they go scatter brained, so you re-explain it with with more detail, being arrogant they might not like that and pretend to be dumb, so you explain it in more detail. Any reasonable person gets it by the second or third round, those with mental problems will just argue. So you give up and just explain everything in future.. Ironic. :D

Seriously 99%+ of people seem to get something, it's just those few that keep posting they don't anywhere, and everywhere, (unless they are saying something wrong, then apparently they understand everything in their Sargent Schultz voice). But the vast majority of people viewing the forum don't post they don't understand. Maybe they're learning, listening, contemplating what's written, following what's happening, reading and accessing things .. Maybe they are wrong with some strange problems to not post how they don't understand and how what they don't understand must of course be wrong, because they must be right and highly capable future presidential material. Seriously, I'm just ignoring them. If they want to play..

Now, there should be a saying, those who have to rely on the opinion of a famous person instead of their own ability...
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 10:13 am

rick.lang wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:The issue is often in the hearer. That is why so many great thinkers are under appreciated and people rather listen to Donald Trump...


No doubt about it, the problem is often with the one listening. A great communicator finds the way to be understood without sacrificing the message, as you did in the prior post.


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So, I made it understandable, or I sacrificed the message? As I was simply explaining the process using metaphor, I thought it was rather convoluted. It's just that the process of a lot of things is just long and therefore long to explain, but true understanding is a long list of things much of the time. The metaphor tends to be much more complicated, but it helps get past stiff necks who are resisting for the sake of resisting. So you bypass the resistant mental path. But the situation is so bad, just saying you happily bought a 4 terabyte hsrd drive for the price it used to cost you to buy a 1 terabyte drive, is enough to glaze their eyes over as too complex. You look at them and say it's as simple as I bough 4 times as much of something at the same price as I did before. 4 oranges for a dollar instead of one etc. Their minds simply lack the dynamicism to regularly assign quantities to new information. Instead they have to be selfishly self-centered entertained, and admittedly more likely to support certain politicians that tell them how to think and read news or the world. So, hard to do much with them. But, believe it or not, that is the natural human nature to various extents with people. Realising that is a key to realising oneself, and improving oneself. But the ones like this are most likely asleep or glazed over by the time that got to this part of the message, to be able to get it (which is also a technique to sort out non-genuines. Which I'm not doing deliberately, but giving the simple explanation of everything).
Last edited by Wayne Steven on Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kim Janson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 12:27 pm

Wayne, you are clearly on different level as I do not simply get the message you are sending, the point you are making.

I must say, I fully agree with this, though not sure if Einstein said it and I would just remove the funny, as there is nothing funny on that.

Timothy Cook wrote:
Funny-Quote-If-you-cant-explain-it-simply-Einstein.jpg


:D
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 4:15 pm

Einstein was very succinct.

I like that.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 7:31 pm

Did anyone see if the usb-c interface would be able to control the camera?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 7:41 pm

This was mentioned as a future possibility (Grant during his presentation), but not currently implemented.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 7:56 pm

I hope they do it, I would like to be able to configure this camera as a shoulder mount, and since there is no lanc, maybe some third party might cobble together a lanc to usb adapter. That seems a much more robust solution then a bluetooth to lanc adapter. Especially if you had multiple cameras but only one adapter. The usb-c would be plug and play, whereas you would have to link to the camera.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 11:07 pm

Jim Giberti wrote:Einstein was very succinct.

I like that.


Well here's succinct, I'm not interested in debating the moral ethics of it anymore. Both sides need to examine their moral ethics. Active hearers are active listeners.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 11:21 pm

Yes, USB as a controller (even wifi)? But will a SSD for Raw recording on a hub with a controller interface, work seamlessly? Useful to have two USB then?

I'm very interested in syncing multiple cameras together for 3D? Probably more a future upgraded micro question though.
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Savannah Miller

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 12:19 am

The new Sony A7III claims 15 stops of DR in a small mirrorless body. With that and Sony's amazing low light sensitivity, I feel like if they had better color science and included prores/raw codecs in a blackmagic pocket form factor body, they could build a much better camera than the Pocket 4K. DR claims are always exaggerated, but Daniel Peters (an Ursa Mini Pro shooter) said that it's almost on-par with his UMP which is very impressive for not being a dual-gain sensor.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 12:35 am

Wayne Steven wrote:Yes, USB as a controller (even wifi)? But will a SSD for Raw recording on a hub with a controller interface, work seamlessly? Useful to have two USB then?

I'm very interested in syncing multiple cameras together for 3D? Probably more a future upgraded micro question though.


If the usb-c was taken by the hand grip controller it would still be possible to record to SSD through the CFast connector as is often done on the UMP.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 4:42 am

Savannah Miller wrote:The new Sony A7III claims 15 stops of DR in a small mirrorless body. With that and Sony's amazing low light sensitivity, I feel like if they had better color science and included prores/raw codecs in a blackmagic pocket form factor body, they could build a much better camera than the Pocket 4K. DR claims are always exaggerated, but Daniel Peters (an Ursa Mini Pro shooter) said that it's almost on-par with his UMP which is very impressive for not being a dual-gain sensor.


I own a Sony A7rII. I love these cameras for run and gun filmmaking but there's a few caveats to the dynamic range you're mentioning. Remember that
1) you're using Slog2 (3 is absolutely not usable), which is a 10 bit curve which gets mapped on a 8 bit signal. That means color data is lost in the end product. This is is most obvious when filming people, as their faces get very plasticky, and overall detail is lost. This means that for the best results you'll be filming in less flat profiles that'll lose you 2-3 stops of dynamic range, putting you right around the Blackmagic.
and
2) The high signal to nose ratio of 8 bit means you'll probably not really get Sony's claimed 15 stops of range (A7SII had 14.5 claimed but most tests put it around 12.5) as shadow detail is quickly lost. This can be partly corrected by over exposing so as to increase shadow detail but in high contrast situations this will clip the highlights as well, so you'll get decreased noise but little to no dynamic range advantage.
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Savannah Miller

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 6:00 am

That's what I'm saying. If Sony were 10 bit it would be so much better than anything that's out there.
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Kingsley Paul

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 6:16 am

Can the usb c be used to charge the battery which can extend the shooting time? interested to know how much it can extend the shooting time?
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Sean van Berlo

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 6:52 am

They stated the camera can be charged via usb-c, but only while the camera is off unfortunately.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 9:02 am

Sean van Berlo wrote:They stated the camera can be charged via usb-c, but only while the camera is off unfortunately.
What's the source of that statement?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 9:22 am

Savannah Miller wrote:The new Sony A7III claims 15 stops of DR in a small mirrorless body. With that and Sony's amazing low light sensitivity,

Hope you know, that the only reason for its 'amazing low light sensitivity' is the heavy internal noise reduction? Because if you record the signal onto a Shogun Inferno it is noisy as hell.
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Kim Janson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 9:56 am

That raise the question, is there any advantage of doing the NR in camera, other than no processor power needed for NR during editing phase. i.e do they have some NR assisting sensor calibration data etc. available in camera, that is not available if recording with external recorder.

Robert Niessner wrote:
Savannah Miller wrote:The new Sony A7III claims 15 stops of DR in a small mirrorless body. With that and Sony's amazing low light sensitivity,

Hope you know, that the only reason for its 'amazing low light sensitivity' is the heavy internal noise reduction? Because if you record the signal onto a Shogun Inferno it is noisy as hell.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 10:14 am

Kim Janson wrote:That raise the question, is there any advantage of doing the NR in camera, other than no processor power needed for NR during editing phase.


The advantage is, that you can get a good quality compression from that. If they wouldn't denoise then that would result in ugly compression artifacts.
For example: my Canon XF305 has lots of picture controls and you can adjust in-camera noise reduction as you like it - even turn it off. At +6dB the camera has significant visible noise, much too much for its 50MBit/s 4:2:2 MPEG-2 compression. It looks like a blocky mess. So you have to crank up the noise reduction to get a usable recording.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 10:25 am

Some denoise techniques also work in the sensor pad circuites themselves, to do a hardware comparison, during sensing.

Temporal noise comparison and image restoration has been my preferred choice for over 20 years. If this is done right, very high quality should be possible with much better compression results, as Robert said.

But remember the stills are just consumer cameras as far as video. They may want you to spend on higher end equipment to get better quality. But BM could do it right here on their cameras.
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Marco Barbaro

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 10:54 am

Sean van Berlo wrote:
Savannah Miller wrote:The new Sony A7III claims 15 stops of DR in a small mirrorless body. With that and Sony's amazing low light sensitivity, I feel like if they had better color science and included prores/raw codecs in a blackmagic pocket form factor body, they could build a much better camera than the Pocket 4K. DR claims are always exaggerated, but Daniel Peters (an Ursa Mini Pro shooter) said that it's almost on-par with his UMP which is very impressive for not being a dual-gain sensor.


I own a Sony A7rII. I love these cameras for run and gun filmmaking but there's a few caveats to the dynamic range you're mentioning. Remember that
1) you're using Slog2 (3 is absolutely not usable), which is a 10 bit curve which gets mapped on a 8 bit signal. That means color data is lost in the end product. This is is most obvious when filming people, as their faces get very plasticky, and overall detail is lost. This means that for the best results you'll be filming in less flat profiles that'll lose you 2-3 stops of dynamic range, putting you right around the Blackmagic.
and
2) The high signal to nose ratio of 8 bit means you'll probably not really get Sony's claimed 15 stops of range (A7SII had 14.5 claimed but most tests put it around 12.5) as shadow detail is quickly lost. This can be partly corrected by over exposing so as to increase shadow detail but in high contrast situations this will clip the highlights as well, so you'll get decreased noise but little to no dynamic range advantage.

3) It has a very bad rolling shutter which is I think the weakest point of the A7
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 3:01 pm

In math and physics, I think the best solution is referred to as “elegant” and that usually implies a beautiful simplicity. The loveliest example I can think of is the expression of the energy (primarily of matter) equals its mass times the square of the speed of light. We all understand the meaning of that equation, but very few could ever have derived that simple expression without previously knowing Einstein’s elegant solution.


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 3:05 pm

rick.lang wrote:In math and physics, I think the best solution is referred to as “elegant” and that usually implies a beautiful simplicity. The loveliest example I can think of is the expression of the energy (primarily of matter) equals its mass times the square of the speed of light. We all understand the meaning of that equation, but very few could ever have derived that simple expression without previously knowing Einstein’s elegant solution.


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 3:30 pm

MarcusWolschon wrote:
Sean van Berlo wrote:They stated the camera can be charged via usb-c, but only while the camera is off unfortunately.
What's the source of that statement?


Interview with Grant at NAB where he said you could charge the camera while it's in your bag. I'm inferring from that, to be fair, that it doesn't charge while recording. The fact that it charges at all via USB-C is on Blackmagic's product page.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 5:12 pm

Leon Benzakein wrote:
rick.lang wrote:In math and physics, I think the best solution is referred to as “elegant” and that usually implies a beautiful simplicity. The loveliest example I can think of is the expression of the energy (primarily of matter) equals its mass times the square of the speed of light. We all understand the meaning of that equation, but very few could ever have derived that simple expression without previously knowing Einstein’s elegant solution.


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HUH? :?


Okay, I shouldn’t have said “we all understand.” My bad.




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Kim Janson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 6:05 pm

It explains the relation of mass and energy, it is one thing to use the formula, other to understand it. I do not think anyone understands mass, limited speed of light, gravity, magnetism, time, ...existence. Sure there is formulas explaining how they are related to each other, how a photon hits the sensor and release energy etc.

Existence though, the biggest wonder of all.

rick.lang wrote:
Leon Benzakein wrote:
rick.lang wrote:In math and physics, I think the best solution is referred to as “elegant” and that usually implies a beautiful simplicity. The loveliest example I can think of is the expression of the energy (primarily of matter) equals its mass times the square of the speed of light. We all understand the meaning of that equation, but very few could ever have derived that simple expression without previously knowing Einstein’s elegant solution.


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HUH? :?


Okay, I shouldn’t have said “we all understand.” My bad.




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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 7:03 pm

Kim Janson wrote:It explains the relation of mass and energy, it is one thing to use the formula, other to understand it. I do not think anyone understands mass, limited speed of light, gravity, magnetism, time, ...existence. Sure there is formulas explaining how they are related to each other, how a photon hits the sensor and release energy etc.

Existence though, the biggest wonder of all.



HUH? :?
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 7:12 pm

Kim Janson wrote:Existence though, the biggest wonder of all.

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Now there is something I can hang my hat on.

"I think therefore I am."

Which begs the question, does the BMPCC4K really exist or does it not? It cannot think or can it?

We saw it, some of us touched it but where is it now.(JULY?) :ugeek:
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 4:06 am

Leon Benzakein wrote:
rick.lang wrote:In math and physics, I think the best solution is referred to as “elegant” and that usually implies a beautiful simplicity. The loveliest example I can think of is the expression of the energy (primarily of matter) equals its mass times the square of the speed of light. We all understand the meaning of that equation, but very few could ever have derived that simple expression without previously knowing Einstein’s elegant solution.


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HUH? :?


Lol. You walked into that Rick. Kim is right. It appears to be succinct because you know the meaning already. But that is the issue, people interpreting and misinterpreting things from their own understadandings without putting in the hours to understand everything little thing. The equation is actually very abstract and complicated. Most non professionals and those not trained in its meaning would know what it means I mean where are the words light or even energy. You are starting to think about it. Yes, people usually don't even know that e is energy. See, people arrogantly think because they can understand, or not, something, there is nothing wrong with there understanding. But it is hard work to train yourself to understand.

Now, what often do, is succinctly describe a series of things. This means a string of succinct explanations strung together, or to save spsce like the upstart crow, woven together according to their relationships into single sentences (much like the equation actually does).

Now, ask the quantum physics that within years displaced Einstein/St. Augustine, what they thought of his objection to quantum physics. They could probably call it "simplistic".

Now, take a look at this simple one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4129395/ (Im out and it takes too long to hunt down one with the full text not behind a pay wall ) and tell me how many people can understand a lot of papers more complex than this, and then tell me that just because it isn't easy to understand, the researchers don't know their stuff and that they don't know it better than most other people? There are those that write and those that read what others write. But if they can't read properly in the first place how can they understand properly. Unfortunately, understanding is like film making, it requires a lot of work, and unfortunately it is often just oneself doing the work.

Now, can we get back to the pocket cinema cameea please.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 6:58 am

Yes, sure, sorry for the side track, no harm meant, I was just bored and exited at the same time.

At this time tough there is not much to discuss about the BMPC4K, not before someone has the camera or BMD releases some more information. Until that we can just joy the unbelievable lightness of being and speculate.

I am waiting to put it on this, the big screen will be nice, I hope it is bright and not too reflective. Also hope there is a way to control the camera with external controls, i.e. without touching the camera and that BMD documents that interface.

27459618_1329778370501970_4142690859914249283_n.jpg
27459618_1329778370501970_4142690859914249283_n.jpg (95.3 KiB) Viewed 3055 times


Ps. Grant often says that BMD has no idea how people will be using the products, I do not think that is exactly true, but now would be good time to tell how you will be using and or rigging it. They for sure are still developing the firmware and maybe we still could have impact on that level, to have the camera we want.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 2:29 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:
Leon Benzakein wrote:
rick.lang wrote:In math and physics, I think the best solution is referred to as “elegant” and that usually implies a beautiful simplicity. The loveliest example I can think of is the expression of the energy (primarily of matter) equals its mass times the square of the speed of light. We all understand the meaning of that equation, but very few could ever have derived that simple expression without previously knowing Einstein’s elegant solution.


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HUH? :?


Lol. You walked into that Rick. Kim is right. It appears to be succinct because you know the meaning already. But that is the issue, people interpreting and misinterpreting things from their own understadandings without putting in the hours to understand everything little thing. The equation is actually very abstract and complicated. Most non professionals and those not trained in its meaning would know what it means I mean where are the words light or even energy. You are starting to think about it. Yes, people usually don't even know that e is energy. See, people arrogantly think because they can understand, or not, something, there is nothing wrong with there understanding. But it is hard work to train yourself to understand.

Now, what often do, is succinctly describe a series of things. This means a string of succinct explanations strung together, or to save spsce like the upstart crow, woven together according to their relationships into single sentences (much like the equation actually does).

Now, ask the quantum physics that within years displaced Einstein/St. Augustine, what they thought of his objection to quantum physics. They could probably call it "simplistic".

Now, take a look at this simple one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4129395/ (Im out and it takes too long to hunt down one with the full text not behind a pay wall ) and tell me how many people can understand a lot of papers more complex than this, and then tell me that just because it isn't easy to understand, the researchers don't know their stuff and that they don't know it better than most other people? There are those that write and those that read what others write. But if they can't read properly in the first place how can they understand properly. Unfortunately, understanding is like film making, it requires a lot of work, and unfortunately it is often just oneself doing the work.

Now, can we get back to the pocket cinema cameea please.


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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 2:30 pm

The Pocket4K hopefully will be a good complement to the URSA Mini 4.6K. Both can be used for client shoots, but the Pocket4K will excel where that additional base ISO 3200 will be most useful: (lower light) interior/exterior night. In those shooting situations where the lower dynamic range is not an issue. The Mini 4.6K would be fully rigged and usually on sticks, but the relatively naked Pocket4K could be handheld with a gimbal for greater mobility or mounted to a monopod when only stability is important.

The Pocket4K

On client shoots that would benefit from having two cameras, such as the theatrical videos, as a sole operator, I could lockdown the Mini 4.6K with a 18/25mm wide angle to cover the stage and move about with the Pocket4K and a 32/50/85mm to get my medium/close shots. Wedding videos possibly could benefit in a similar arrangement some of the time.

At this point I would still plan on using my manual full frame APO PL/EF primes on both cameras.




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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 2:34 pm

Kim

Do you have any footage from using this rig?

It looks like it should work really well.

What is the maximum weight that the gimbal can carry?
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 2:55 pm

rick.lang wrote:The Pocket4K hopefully will be a good complement to the URSA Mini 4.6K. Both can be used for client shoots, but the Pocket4K will excel where that additional base ISO 3200 will be most useful: (lower light) interior/exterior night. In those shooting situations where the lower dynamic range is not an issue. The Mini 4.6K would be fully rigged and usually on sticks, but the relatively naked Pocket4K could be handheld with a gimbal for greater mobility or mounted to a monopod when only stability is important.

The Pocket4K

On client shoots that would benefit from having two cameras, such as the theatrical videos, as a sole operator, I could lockdown the Mini 4.6K with a 18/25mm wide angle to cover the stage and move about with the Pocket4K and a 32/50/85mm to get my medium/close shots. Wedding videos possibly could benefit in a similar arrangement some of the time.

At this point I would still plan on using my manual full frame APO PL/EF primes on both cameras.

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You are absolutely on the right track.
I have just put together a travel Manfrotto tripod that should work well with the Pocket 4K.
I will have to wait and see if the weight factor of a long lens will be an issue.
The tripod comes with a ballhead but I have replaced it with a Manfrotto befree live fluid head.
One of the legs screws off to be used as a monopod. The head can be transferred to the monopod.
I have found that if I replace the riser column with a 3/8 inch coupler, I can have the camera way down on the ground working as if on a high hat.
I am blown away by the versatility of the tripod.

Can't wait to try it with the BMPCC4K.
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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 3:03 pm

Very interesting... hope you post a few pics of your setup as a tripod and a monopod and as a substitute hi-hat. I should look at Manfrotto again.


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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 5:05 pm

rick.lang wrote:Very interesting... hope you post a few pics of your setup as a tripod and a monopod and as a substitute hi-hat. I should look at Manfrotto again.


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Hi Rick posted pictures here

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=72832&p=405744#p405744
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rick.lang

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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 5:31 pm

Much appreciated, Leon.

Did you consider the BeFree Traveler Carbon Fibre Tripod with BeFree Fluid Head?


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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 6:25 pm

rick.lang wrote:Did you consider the BeFree Traveler Carbon Fibre Tripod with BeFree Fluid Head?


I ordered the Element online thinking that it was the BeFree Traveler Alumium Tripod with ballhead.
When I got it I was disappointed, but when I saw that the leg could be used as a monopod and I could get the head down low by removing the riser I realized what a find I had made.

I think that the Element is better constructed than the BeFree tripod. All parts are metal. Not so on the BeFree.

Note that this is a light tripod for light cameras and not too fancy pans and tilts, but ideal if you need support for interviews or locked off shots and gentle pans and tilts.
The tripod can take 17.6 lbs

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... veler.html

The BeFree tripod head can take 8.8 lbs.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... video.html
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Kim Janson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 8:07 pm

Here is some videos with the gimbal, including with Sigma 120 - 300 mm f2.8 that weights 3 kg +

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66387

I did only very prief testing with the camera vest so far, but enough to know it works nicely. will do more testing during the spring.

Leon Benzakein wrote:Kim

Do you have any footage from using this rig?

It looks like it should work really well.

What is the maximum weight that the gimbal can carry?
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John Brawley

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 12:45 am

Savannah Miller wrote:The new Sony A7III claims 15 stops of DR in a small mirrorless body. With that and Sony's amazing low light sensitivity, I feel like if they had better color science and included prores/raw codecs in a blackmagic pocket form factor body, they could build a much better camera than the Pocket 4K. DR claims are always exaggerated, but Daniel Peters (an Ursa Mini Pro shooter) said that it's almost on-par with his UMP which is very impressive for not being a dual-gain sensor.


It's pointless to think that this will ever happen.

BMD's whole camera business model is doing something that the big players will never ever do.

When they first launched the BMCC it was the first ever camera (before even Alexa) to do on-board internal uncompressed RAW and ProRes recording. In a camera that cost 3 thousand bucks.

I remember many saying that Canon would come back hard and offer the same, the hacker community was big then too. Everyone thought they would show BMD how to make a camera.

AJA were going to be the ones for a while, they gave up.

GoPro for a while would do it...and nope...

I also remember some pretty disparaging comments from RED users about this "toy" camera that did ProRes years before they did. Having used ProRes recently on RED I can't say it's very well implemented either !

And here we are...6 years later. And we've only just seen Canon sort of do something meaningful with the C200. A kind-of-sort-of-crippled RAWlite.

These guys want to segment their markets

They want you using their own codecs or their own media or both.

They want to define what you can and can't do based on how much you pay them.

BMD just don't think that way.

Panasonic are the only ones (so far) aside from Arri and BMD to do on-board ProRes recording (Varicam LT)

And RED too I guess.

JB
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Tarek Saneh

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:31 am

Well said John
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Ian Henderson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:36 am

There have been a lot of silly suggestions since this camera was released about what Blackmagic should have done, how it should have been a different chip size, different form factor, different battery etc... that I feel it's appropriate to make one of my own.

It seems the level of interest in this camera is unprecedented, and Blackmagic are going to sell a ton of them, and it's going to become even more of a gateway drug into the Blackmagic ecosystem. I really, really, really wish they would slap built-in NDs on (make it an EF mount if they need the flange difference) and replace the HDMI with an SDI. There, just that. Call it the Pocket Pro, and sell it alongside the Pocket, for double the price. I, and I'm sure many others here, would definitely buy that.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:39 am

John, that does appear to be the way things are currently, but in tech, never say never.
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sickshow

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 6:05 am

Well, it sure will sell well if they don’t scare the potential customers with the first batch issues which would be classic BMD. Too good specs for the price already although, correct me if I'm wrong, it’s before VAT. Can’t see the point of adding SDI instead of HDMI to a supposedly pocketable camera. It surely was meant to compete with highly popular compact Sony and Panasonic cameras. I’m sure they want a piece of that fat pie, too, that’s they’re extending their Pocket line and are willing to sell the camera for some marginal gain (or even at a loss, given the cost of warranty repairs which, I bet, is their worst pain). But, let's be honest, in that market, low light performance and image stabilization are what people are looking after, and BMD will be able to catch up with the big players in this field no sooner than in a few decades, if ever. Look at GoPro. Innovative companies, as they are, should be very careful with every step forward. As a fan of BMD, I wish them well but I’m afraid they don’t realize what the compact camera users want nowadays. RAW, SDI (and maybe even XLRs) are meant for bigger projects/budgets. Recently, I spoke with a friend who is a wedding videographer, and he mentioned, as a matter of fact, how people become gradually less impressed with the size and complexity of a videographers’s gear (which back in the day would have justified the rate) and how they’re more and more demanding to what they want to see in their wedding movies. So, basically, what they want is more versatile shots and transitions. And because complex movements are big part of it, you absolutely need good IS an AF. So, he recently sold his UM4K and is considering a gh5 or gh5s. I’m telling this not because I’m dissatisfied with my own UM4K but to illustrate how forgiving some customer groups become to “a man with a dslr”.


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AndreeMarkefors

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 11:30 am

John Brawley wrote:And here we are...6 years later. And we've only just seen Canon sort of do something meaningful with the C200. A kind-of-sort-of-crippled RAWlite.


I agree with much of what you're saying, but not this piece here.

I don't think there is anything crippled with Canon raw light. 12bit, Goldilocks-Bitrate, wide gamut raw is a very nice compromise in this day and age. Current compression is around 3-5x or so? I'd welcome an additional version that was 7-10x.
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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:25 pm

But I wouldn’t for one. I’ve tested all flavours of raw and ProRes and each step does reveal slight changes from the upper limit of raw and ProRes 444 XQ. Raw 3:1 and ProRes 444 are both very close to the best, perhaps that’s my Goldilocks, but after that I’ve seen more noticeable changes. I’ve still used raw 4:1 when I needed longer recording time and no one complains, but I always want to start from the best image I can manage. Definitely wouldn’t use anything more compressed from a BMD camera than raw 4:1.




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Sean van Berlo

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 5:04 pm

But Prores 444 is less compressed than both Raw 3:1 and 4:1, right?
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 5:34 pm

I'll ad that ProRes HQ is what we produce in day to day for broadcast and web delivery and it's robust and well beyond what's required for those mediums.

Everything else is incremental improvements, but with ProRes, you're already there for 95% of what's being done professionaly.
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John Paines

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 5:58 pm

Steve Yedlin's tests probably haven't disabused any Red fanatics of their resolution fetish, but I wish he'd smash the "raw" idol as well. That 5% may be real some of the time, but the notion that it will make any difference in the moving pictures on what amounts to no-budget productions is maybe unduly optimistic.

Prores was good enough for last year's Best Picture Academy award, so it just might be good enough for wedding videos.
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