Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

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Note Suwanchote

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Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 14, 2018 10:17 pm

I've been beta testing the new Blackmagic RAW and it's insane! All these were shot on the new codec @ 12:1. They are monologues as part of an upcoming project.

-Ursa Mini Pro @ 4.6K
-Rokinon 14mm 2.8
-Sigma 18-35mm
-Nikon 50mm AIS @ 1.4
-Rokinon 50mm @ 1.4

Actors:
-Thom Delahunt
-Reza Leal-Smartt

All either in 23.796 or 60p conformed to 23.976.

Music: Departure by Alice in Winter from Soundstripe

My first impression of Blackmagic RAW, is that it's insanely amazing. Flexible, fast and small. Game changer for the Ursa Mini Pro. This will be my main codec going forward.



Image

Image

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Last edited by Note Suwanchote on Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:54 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Some Blackmagic Raw 12:1

PostFri Sep 14, 2018 10:32 pm

Beautiful, thanks for sharing. How hardware intensive was the decode on 12:1?
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Note Suwanchote

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Re: Some Blackmagic Raw 12:1

PostFri Sep 14, 2018 10:44 pm

Jack Fairley wrote:Beautiful, thanks for sharing. How hardware intensive was the decode on 12:1?

Very, very easy. Even with playback and editing direct on the CFAST reader.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Some Blackmagic Raw 12:1

PostFri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 pm

Jack Fairley wrote:Beautiful, thanks for sharing. How hardware intensive was the decode on 12:1?


Download samples from BM website and try :)
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 14, 2018 11:34 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Jack Fairley wrote:Beautiful, thanks for sharing. How hardware intensive was the decode on 12:1?


Download samples from BM website and try :)

Holy smokes, I assumed they were less compressed because of the good quality and easy playback. Color me impressed!
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 3:04 am

Did you happen to try and see what you could record to on a fast SD card (if you have one)? Looks awesome!
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 3:32 am

michaeldhead wrote:Did you happen to try and see what you could record to on a fast SD card (if you have one)? Looks awesome!

On another forum beta testers were reporting this was working.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 5:30 am

Thank you so much, Note.
That's just jaw-dropping *gorgeous!*
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 5:36 am

Yes, very, very nice. I really liked the lighting also.
Cheers
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 2:08 pm

Very impressive! Sound was fantastic too.
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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 4:59 pm

The four demo clips from Kholi and Note total exactly one minute. The BRAW storage equates to 32.325MB/s. That supports about two hours recording time on a 256GB Card. I think that is well within the capabilities of shooting with Q5 VBR. Such a treat to get good-looking results without all the pain. Thank you, Note and Kholi.


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Note Suwanchote

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 5:13 pm

rick.lang wrote:The four demo clips from Kholi and Note total exactly one minute. The BRAW storage equates to 32.325MB/s. That supports about two hours recording time on a 256GB Card. I think that is well within the capabilities of shooting with Q5 VBR. Such a treat to get good-looking results without all the pain. Thank you, Note and Kholi.


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Yep. At 12:1 a 256GB cfast will get you either 114 or 115 minutes of recording time with Blackmagic RAW.

Him-ch wrote:Very impressive! Sound was fantastic too.

thank you!

Denny Smith wrote:Yes, very, very nice. I really liked the lighting also.
Cheers


Thank you!

Peter Benson wrote:Thank you so much, Note.
That's just jaw-dropping *gorgeous!*
[Re]Pete


thanks!

michaeldhead wrote:Did you happen to try and see what you could record to on a fast SD card (if you have one)? Looks awesome!

Thanks! And yep from others' reports it does! I used a microSD and it did.

Jack Fairley wrote:
michaeldhead wrote:Did you happen to try and see what you could record to on a fast SD card (if you have one)? Looks awesome!

On another forum beta testers were reporting this was working.


Yes. I had a microsd that I used to record Blackmagic RAW 12:1 but at a lower resolution via microSD to SD adapter. From others' reports, it does work. Exciting times!
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 5:34 pm

Note, did you do any comparison of Q5 VBR with BRAW 12:1 constant bit rate? I’m leaning toward shooting Q5 for most things. Q0 for most important things.


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Note Suwanchote

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 6:13 pm

rick.lang wrote:Note, did you do any comparison of Q5 VBR with BRAW 12:1 constant bit rate? I’m leaning toward shooting Q5 for most things. Q0 for most important things.


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I have not. I originally shot something in Q0 and it looked great but after testing 12:1 I found that the quality was still retained yet the storage time it offered was to great to pass up.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 8:08 pm

Note Suwanchote wrote:
Yes. I had a microsd that I used to record Blackmagic RAW 12:1 but at a lower resolution via microSD to SD adapter. From others' reports, it does work. Exciting times!


:o :o :o

Micro-SD? MICRO-SD? Wow! Do you mind sharing which one? Wow! Just...Wow!

I'm also leaning towards Q5 when I get the P4k, and it looks like I won't have to rig up an SSD to get that!
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 8:26 pm

The advantage of 12:1 is a predictable storage rate so you can confidently determine how many minutes of recording you will be able to record on a card. But it appears there will be some loss of detail although it may not be missed.

The advantage of Q5 is that more detail is retained. It will be interesting to see how that translates to people and things.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 9:06 pm

I haven't yet been able to find a case where 12:1 displays any artifacts.
Green screen keying is a good way to see codec differences, but I haven't tested that yet. As Grant mentioned in the release video, if shooting for VFX, Q0 would likely be the choice as it's the least compressed. But for everything else, it seems so far that 12:1 is pretty much visually lossless.
It's amazing. As others have said, with braw it's like BMD has gifted us a whole new camera.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 9:38 pm

This is exciting. Can’t wait to get my pocket 4K!


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Jack Fairley

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 10:01 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:I haven't yet been able to find a case where 12:1 displays any artifacts.
Green screen keying is a good way to see codec differences, but I haven't tested that yet. As Grant mentioned in the release video, if shooting for VFX, Q0 would likely be the choice as it's the least compressed. But for everything else, it seems so far that 12:1 is pretty much visually lossless.
It's amazing. As others have said, with braw it's like BMD has gifted us a whole new camera.

I'm curious to see how well 12:1 does on a greenscreen. It may be compressed, but it has the high bit depth and no chroma subsampling.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 10:58 pm

I shot a lot of tests on a 150mb 1000x 128gb lexar SD with no problems at 8:1. Again I struggled to find anything in the footage that indicated compression. Threw the camera around a bit as well.
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rick.lang

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Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 11:10 pm

Kel, is that 1000x Card rated as V60 or V90? BRAW 8:1 is about 68MB/s. About the same as Q5 VBR in a moderately detailed scene.


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Note Suwanchote

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 3:51 am

michaeldhead wrote:
Note Suwanchote wrote:
Yes. I had a microsd that I used to record Blackmagic RAW 12:1 but at a lower resolution via microSD to SD adapter. From others' reports, it does work. Exciting times!


:o :o :o

Micro-SD? MICRO-SD? Wow! Do you mind sharing which one? Wow! Just...Wow!

I'm also leaning towards Q5 when I get the P4k, and it looks like I won't have to rig up an SSD to get that!

Yep, it's a samsung microsd but at 1080p since that microsd was also nearly full.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 7:21 am

Are we looking at levels and toning instead of detail?

Reducing noise and smoothing out the differences between surrounding pixels increases compressibility a lot by reducing detail and softening the image. This is what you are likely to see rather than artifacts. This is what we see in cineform wavelet, and advanced dct compression has used overlaps to get similar accuracy for many years. Consumer codecs do this too. You can even put good levels, toning, dynamic range and detail into a high bit rate consumer codec, if you choose too do that without compromises.
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Daniel Bănică

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 7:30 am

The interesting thing is with the braw I want more the UMP then the BMPCC4K. Nevertheless the price difference is huge. Who knows, maybe someday.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 12:42 pm

Kel Philm wrote:I shot a lot of tests on a 150mb 1000x 128gb lexar SD with no problems at 8:1. Again I struggled to find anything in the footage that indicated compression. Threw the camera around a bit as well.


Those are the cards I use with my GH5 and GH5S. What frame rate was that shot at? I assume that the data rate will be proportional to frame rate in some way. I get about 110mins shooting UHD60P on those cards. Max write on those is 80MBps and minimum at 30MBps so may have some problems.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostWed Sep 19, 2018 9:31 am

Wayne Steven wrote:Are we looking at levels and toning instead of detail?

Personally, I think what we're seeing in BRAW is better real detail (thanks to the new debayer) instead of a lot of false detail + noise that was there in cDNG. But I'm certainly not a camera engineer, so there's a fair chance I'm wrong about that. As a shooter and colorist, what I can say for sure is that to my eyes the images are looking better in BRAW, even at 12:1, than I used to get from cDNG. And even though I can't explain exactly how BMD is doing it, I really like the results so far.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostWed Sep 19, 2018 11:16 am

You are right Jamie. It needs a careful examination of frames under different compression ratios (3:1 and 12:1).
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostWed Sep 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:You are right Jamie. It needs a careful examination of frames under different compression ratios (3:1 and 12:1).



Jack Fairley wrote:
Jamie LeJeune wrote:I haven't yet been able to find a case where 12:1 displays any artifacts.
Green screen keying is a good way to see codec differences, but I haven't tested that yet. As Grant mentioned in the release video, if shooting for VFX, Q0 would likely be the choice as it's the least compressed. But for everything else, it seems so far that 12:1 is pretty much visually lossless.
It's amazing. As others have said, with braw it's like BMD has gifted us a whole new camera.

I'm curious to see how well 12:1 does on a greenscreen. It may be compressed, but it has the high bit depth and no chroma subsampling.


Wayne and Jack,

I shot some green screen footage with multiple versions of BRAW, cDNG, and prores and made a post in the green screen thread. I typically don't work with green screen so this isn't a great setup, but I think it's good enough to show the codecs. I've made the footage available to download so you can play with the image yourself.

Here is the link to the thread. https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79410#p439988
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostWed Sep 19, 2018 3:08 pm

[quote="Note Suwanchote"]/quote]

Clicking vimeo.com/Suwanchote - takes one to a porno site!
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 4:00 am

Nate Porter wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:You are right Jamie. It needs a careful examination of frames under different compression ratios (3:1 and 12:1).



Jack Fairley wrote:
Jamie LeJeune wrote:I haven't yet been able to find a case where 12:1 displays any artifacts.
Green screen keying is a good way to see codec differences, but I haven't tested that yet. As Grant mentioned in the release video, if shooting for VFX, Q0 would likely be the choice as it's the least compressed. But for everything else, it seems so far that 12:1 is pretty much visually lossless.
It's amazing. As others have said, with braw it's like BMD has gifted us a whole new camera.

I'm curious to see how well 12:1 does on a greenscreen. It may be compressed, but it has the high bit depth and no chroma subsampling.


Wayne and Jack,

I shot some green screen footage with multiple versions of BRAW, cDNG, and prores and made a post in the green screen thread. I typically don't work with green screen so this isn't a great setup, but I think it's good enough to show the codecs. I've made the footage available to download so you can play with the image yourself.

Here is the link to the thread. https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79410#p439988


Thanks. Do you have frames? I'm using phone at the moment and no player..
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Him-ch wrote:Clicking vimeo.com/Suwanchote - takes one to a porno site!


Please, don’t upload anything to the forum before disinfecting your computer!


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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 7:56 pm

rick.lang wrote:
Him-ch wrote:Clicking vimeo.com/Suwanchote - takes one to a porno site!


Please, don’t upload anything to the forum before disinfecting your computer!


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Already done shortly after clicking vimeo.com/Suwanchote - no viruses etc found.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 7:58 pm

I also see that they have fixed their vimeo pages now as well no more sex site link.
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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 10:21 pm

So the spam may have been at Vimeo. Would be nice to live in a different world. Did you see the Planet Vulcan (from Star Trek) has actually been found; it’s only 16 light years away!


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Him-ch

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 4:34 am

It certainly would!

"Did you see the Planet Vulcan (from Star Trek) has actually been found; it’s only 16 light years away!" - no I have never followed Star Trek.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 2:19 pm

Unless it's the actual planet, it's not. The real vulcan they think were some planetiods/astroids close to the sun which I think they found. Which Star system was the original vulcan in star trek in?
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Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 3:16 pm

Wayne, I hope this link works for you.

“Roddenberry, along with three scientists from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, wrote a letter in 1991 to the astronomy magazine Sky & Telescope, naming 40 Eridani A as the star around which Vulcan orbited. ”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/exop ... -1.4830111



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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 6:34 pm

The redirect was definitely on their end! :shock:
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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 6:38 pm

Note, I saw on Blackmagic_News you have another video shooting BRAW, but clicking on the Twitter link takes one to a BMD Page without the link to your video, only a still. Do you have the new video somewhere?


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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:13 pm

The last two BMD Twitter posts about Blackmagic Raw are reviews which as far as I can see you can only read on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pg/BlackmagicDesignOfficial/posts/

The links look like a mistake, or maybe there's an update to the Blackmagic Raw page that hasn't been published.
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Note Suwanchote

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 1:15 am

roger.magnusson wrote:The last two BMD Twitter posts about Blackmagic Raw are reviews which as far as I can see you can only read on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pg/BlackmagicDesignOfficial/posts/

The links look like a mistake, or maybe there's an update to the Blackmagic Raw page that hasn't been published.

I think it takes you to an earlier post on their site.

rick.lang wrote:Note, I saw on Blackmagic_News you have another video shooting BRAW, but clicking on the Twitter link takes one to a BMD Page without the link to your video, only a still. Do you have the new video somewhere?

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Do you mean the valley/cavern one? Currently, that video is not up.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 3:47 am

Thanks, Note! That explains why I can’t find it.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 5:19 am

rick.lang wrote:Wayne, I hope this link works for you.

“Roddenberry, along with three scientists from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, wrote a letter in 1991 to the astronomy magazine Sky & Telescope, naming 40 Eridani A as the star around which Vulcan orbited. ”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/exop ... -1.4830111



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I thought that vulcan was originally supposed to be in the sol system. They only picked it because some books used it. It has had a large use in scfi, even before startrek, and in significant sci-fi. But what do you expect from a series which keeps rewriting it's universe and even physics.

This stuff is interesting. I've had multiple plot mechanics in my scifi turn out to be true in real life. Such as the matter streams connecting galaxies which I invented to do something in a certain way and latter was found, of universal void where galaxies had been consumed then turned out there were voids (fur whatever reason), or obscure ancient places and civilisations, I picked places and just made fake names based on obscure word play unrealated to history or places, and it turns out to be true there were names out there with vocal shifts are the same (the names change with transliteration to different languages, and over time the way people pronounce the vowels, and constants shift. It can even sound really different, not as close as what I found). But you can read and follow through the shifts. So even found two ancient co-inhabiting tribes which equal Anglo and Saxon. I never got to talk with Thor Heyerdahl about his work, as he had already died. However, I'm eager to talk to James Cameron about a interesting real thing I've discovered which would be related to the Atlantis legend, and we have some very significant archaeology stuff happening locally to do with mounting Egyptian archeological finds in Australia I wanted to put together venture into with doco (definitely Q0 or Q5 direct to TV). I used to correspond with one of his film editors.

As far as this (too heavy) planet and its star system so widely used in fiction, it may well be a planet of demons (don't expect it to not be empty) look up Darklings.

$1 to anybody that can get their Blackmagic cinema camera out there first to film it, within the next hour. If the startrek universe is true, that's quiet possible.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 5:25 am

rick.lang wrote:The advantage of 12:1 is a predictable storage rate so you can confidently determine how many minutes of recording you will be able to record on a card. But it appears there will be some loss of detail although it may not be missed.

The advantage of Q5 is that more detail is retained. It will be interesting to see how that translates to people and things.



Just shot a commercial at Q0/Q5 - the prediction of space/minutes left on the card is pretty good.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 8:59 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:
rick.lang wrote:The advantage of 12:1 is a predictable storage rate so you can confidently determine how many minutes of recording you will be able to record on a card. But it appears there will be some loss of detail although it may not be missed.

The advantage of Q5 is that more detail is retained. It will be interesting to see how that translates to people and things.



Just shot a commercial at Q0/Q5 - the prediction of space/minutes left on the card is pretty good.

Very nice!
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rick.lang

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Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Thanks, Frank. Good to know. The bitrate range in that codec comparison chart is quite large for Q0 beginning at 110 MB/s to well higher than 3:1. But if the camera adjusts for the scene and gives a pretty accurate prediction then it will be easy to learn what a given scene will use.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:34 am

Note Suwanchote wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:
rick.lang wrote:The advantage of 12:1 is a predictable storage rate so you can confidently determine how many minutes of recording you will be able to record on a card. But it appears there will be some loss of detail although it may not be missed.

The advantage of Q5 is that more detail is retained. It will be interesting to see how that translates to people and things.



Just shot a commercial at Q0/Q5 - the prediction of space/minutes left on the card is pretty good.

Very nice!


Do you guys have any concerns about using a BETA codec for your projects? I have a short film project upcoming and I want to use BRAW 8:1. Is there anything dramatically catastrophic that could happen do you think?
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 23, 2018 12:37 pm

I wouldn't think twice - the current public beta is pretty good and rock solid.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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James McDonagh

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 23, 2018 1:06 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:I wouldn't think twice - the current public beta is pretty good and rock solid.


That's the impression I'm getting as well. Looking forward to using it!
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Note Suwanchote

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Re: Blackmagic RAW 12:1 Video

PostSun Sep 23, 2018 8:59 pm

Solid stuff. I’ve used it on a few projects and it’s been great!
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