Old Speedbooster on new BMPCC 4K?

Has there been any 100% definitive word on if the old BMPCC Speedbooster will fit on the new cam without issues?

Yes, the original BMPCC Speed Booster will Not work,on the new Pocket camera. The original Pocket is a S16 size sensor, while the new 4K Camera is a full size MFT sensor (18.9x10mm), so the original SB will not cover the entire sensor area. Metsbones makes two new MFT SB that will work, the XL and Ultra.
Cheers

But both the XL and Ultra are designed for a 4mm thick sensor cover glass. If BMD has continued to use the 2.4mm sensor glass found on their cameras, the BMCC SpeedBooster 0.64x is likely a sharper option.


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I emailed Blackmagic about the thickness of the sensor glass for this exact reason, but I was told they didn't know or couldn't tell at the time. Likely don't want to hurt sales for people wanting to get this with the normal speedboosters.

What is the thickness of the glass on the Ursas?

Should be answered authoritatively by BMD. As far as I know, still 2.4mm on the URSA cameras.

If you have lenses that cover full frame 135 film frame, the SpeedBooster for BMCC should work fine with the Pocket 4K sensor. I imagine the Metabones website will confirm this soon enough...

From Metabones:
“This Speed Booster is designed to cover an BMCC image circle which is not big enough to cover a full-size 36mm x 24mm sensor.”



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Reminder, if the sensor glass is 4mm on the Pocket 4K, the Cine SpeedBooster XL is the premiere choice with full frame EF lenses for the Pocket 4K Camera:

http://www.metabones.com/products/detai ... EF-M43-BT6

If the glass thickness on the Pocket 4K is 2.4mm, the image isn’t ruined, but isn’t ideal. By product launch we shall know which SpeedBooster is best for that camera. I certainly wouldn’t make a new purchase until BMD and Metabones provide us with their data.

Given that BMD doesn’t manufacture lenses or focal reducers, it would make sense for the companies to make an announcement by the launch date.

BMD does make focal expanders for the B4 mount, so it’s not impossible that BMD could compete with Metabones in the future for their Pocket 4K camera. If they compete, they not only would need to be as good as Metabones, they may need to be better as Metabones has done an impressive job at promoting BMD cameras on their own. In my opinion, Brian Caldwell has been a terrific resource to our community both for his focal reducer designs and his valued participation on the forums.



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This was not a scientific test and no animals were harmed in the process.

I had the opportunity to have hands on the BMPCC 4K after NAB.
I tried my two Nikon/Metabones BMPCC adapters on the BMPCC 4K with a Sigma 18-35mm lens.

Results:

The adapter without Speedbooster(no lens) fit okay but loose.
The BMPCC adapter with Speedbooster did not fit at all.

My take on the test and increased angle of view was that with the increase in sensor size and higher ISO I do not know if a speedbooster is really necessary. (Sorry Metabones)

An active Nikon to MFT would be welcomed.

Rick, GH5S shooters tried the BMCC Speed Booster and it vignetted on the larger MFT 18mm wise sensor in both 17:9 and 16:9 mode, (it does work on the GH5/4 in sensor crop mode), and the BMCC SB should work on the new camera in HD window mode, so this is a no starter. If BM goes with the thinner cover glass/filter, than Metabones will be quick to respond with a new SB for the new Pocket 4K.

Interesting Leon the BMPCC SB did not fit, was it too tight in the MFT mount or ? Seeing as the csmera you tried is a pre-production test Camera, the Mount May be adjusted to correct MFT standard, as the Micro Camera Mount was. The original Pocket camera MFT Mount was on the loose side on many of the esrly cameras, and Metsbones adjusted the mount on their SB to adjust, after receiving complaints about the mount being too loose.

That said, when the Pocket csmera first came out, only SB available was the MFT/Nik MFT, which I had from my AF100, and it worked well with my Zeiss ZF 25, 28 f/2.0 lenses, and 35mm lenses, as well as some Nikon glass I had at the time. The sensor glass thickness difference became an issue when shooters started mounting the Sigma 18.35 f/1.4 and other very fast lenses being used wide open, especially wide angle lenses, that started become “soft” due to the difference in FFD caused by the thinner cover glass.

So we may be back to the same issue, depending on BM’s sensor cover glass choice, unless the cover glass is provided by Sony as part of the sensor? if there is an issue, Metsbones will be fast to respond with an appropriate new SB, as they did with the previous two cameras. We will just have to wait and see. Meanwhile, I would not be rushing out to buy a SB until the camera is released and this tested.
Cheers

Thanks, Leon. The SpeedBooster for BMPCC is not a good solution due to the image circle design for the significantly smaller sensor. I hope Metabones or Brian Caldwell comments on the efficacy of the SpeedBooster for BMCC.


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Denny, do you remember if those tests on the GH5/5s were using full frame 135 film lenses or smaller image circle lenses? If they were using full frame lenses, then the vignetting was entirely due to the design of the SpeedBooster image circle for the smaller BMCC sensor. Makes sense.

I’m hoping you’re right about Metabones doing a special SpeedBooster for BMPCC4K. Make it Cine too to lock the EF lens. Now they’ve developed the locking version, I don’t really see the need for the traditional EF->MFT housing.


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Rick, on of the lenses I believe was the Sigma 18-35, and some FF lenses were tested, but I do not recall which ones. The BMCC SB projected image circle was optimized for the smaller BMCC sensor, and a lot of GH shooters tried to use one, even some AF100 shooters, when it came out, all to no avail, until the GH4’s smaller sensor. The Pocket Camera SB projects too for into a GH to safely use, it interfered with the shutter. Neither SB are recommended by Metabones for use on a GH csmera.

I recall Brian saying the SB image circle is tuned for the sensors it is designed to work with, to eliminate over projection and internal reflections.
Cheers

Interesting Leon the BMPCC SB did not fit, was it too tight in the MFT mount or ? Seeing as the csmera you tried is a pre-production test Camera, the Mount May be adjusted to correct MFT standard, as the Micro Camera Mount was.

My sense at the time was that the adapter with the speedbooster was not able to get close enough to the mount to get a bite.
I did not want to mess around with that since this was the only BMPCC 4K in the USA and I did not want to damage it.
The issue of the larger sensor and the image target being larger also makes this a moot point.

I agree, thanks Leon.
Cheers

Thanks again, Denny. I stand corrected. Need to wait for a Metabones SpeedBooster for BMPCC4K specific focal reducer. Would be sweet if it was PL->MFT rather than EF->MFT.


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The issue with PL to MFT Rick, is many PL cine lenses have an extended rear element that pokes into the adapter, almost to the mounting flange, so not much room for SB optics.
Cheers

I understand that. It’s a short list of older PL lenses that might work, but many modern PL lenses don’t extend into the throat as I understand it. I don’t believe the SLR Magic will be a problem as they have internal focus. I should verify with SLR Magic.


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Yes Rick, the newer PL lenses could work with a SB, like the SLR Magic APOs
Cheers

But both the XL and Ultra are designed for a 4mm thick sensor cover glass. If BMD has continued to use the 2.4mm sensor glass found on their cameras, the BMCC SpeedBooster 0.64x is likely a sharper option.


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Doesn't the BMCC have a different mount than the 'standard' MFT mount? I remember it being tighter or something?

Thanks again, Denny. I stand corrected. Need to wait for a Metabones SpeedBooster for BMPCC4K specific focal reducer. Would be sweet if it was PL->MFT rather than EF->MFT.


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Rick

Are you looking for a PL->MFT Speedbooster or just a PL->MFT adapter?

Sean, the BMCC csme in either a Canon E Mount or a dumb MFT mount, which was added later.
Cheers

Leon, I could use a simple passive PL->MFT adapter, but I also plan to mount my PL APO full frame lenses on the Pocket 4K. If Metabones offered a PL-MFT SpeedBooster for the BMPCC4K, I’d buy that as it would likely be simpler than what I may end up having to do which is:

Add SLR Magic’s APO PL-EF adapter (that I bought in 2016)

mount that on the Cine SpeedBooster EF->MFT for BMPCC4K as a sturdier connection and add the built in rail support to steady the MFT connection

mount that on the Pocket 4K.


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Rick

By now you may know that I have the BMPCC.
Being a hybrid grip/electrician/cameraman I have been messing around getting the BMPCC as close to a ENG/EFP/EPG rig as possible by adding all sorts of accessories.

These days I spend a lot of time looking at the brochure I have of the BMPCC 4K.
In it BMD makes the claim that it is "Designed to be handheld". To the point that even the body is made of light material.

That is where the strength of these cameras are. Pairing these cameras with a "smart" lens makes these devices very versatile.

I have found that as in my case putting on a Sigma 18-35mm lens plus Speedbooster has made the BMPCC as versatile as a brick.

I need to rethink the lens I will use on the 4k.

Oh I agree, if I was going handheld I’d recommend either the Veydras or an Olympus Zoom using the active controls via the camera mount.

As you suggest, going as light as possible is a great asset in operation of the camera including keepIng the centre of gravity close to the camera body. When shooting with the APO, I will have the centre of gravity somewhere under the lens.

When I’m talking APO and SpeedBooster, that’s for primarily lowlight applications on sticks and a rig. First batter up to the plate would be the late September wedding where the Pocket would capture the wedding reception.


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Now that this camera is out in the wild, where have we landed with respect to usage of existing 0.64x speedboosters?

Metabones makes both a 0.64x BMCC and 0.64x MFT adaptor for Nikon full-frame lenses. Are either of these a good match with the BMPCC4K?

No either one will cover the full MFT sensor. See Metabones recommendations on their site
That said, you could use either one with the window HD mode as it will cover this smaller area. However sensor stack thickness is more on the new Pocket 4K, so focus may be off.

The standard MFT SpeedBooster is plenty sharp, edge to edge, on the P4K. Tested myself today:

http://www.humcrush.com/grabs/rokinon_85mm_f4.png

Note that the Rokinon 85mm isn't the sharpest of lenses, but at f/4 it's not bad.

Are either of these a good match with the BMPCC4K?

Absolutely. I use the SpeedBooster XL with Full Frame Canon lenses. The only con is that Metabones has not updated its firmware to let the BMPCC 4K autofocus. Also, the Image Stabilization toggle option on the BMPCC 4K’s menu seems to be disabled. I hope an upcoming firmware update fixes both acceptable shortcomings. Hope this helps.

Yes, Metabones is waiting for their copy of the new Pocket camera so they can update the EF Speed Booster FW, and check for any other issues, like stack thickness.
Cheers

I'm getting conflicting feedback:

Denny: "neither one will cover the full MFT sensor."

joe12south: "The standard MFT SpeedBooster is plenty sharp, edge to edge, on the P4K."

Andres: "Absolutely. I use the SpeedBooster XL with Full Frame Canon lenses."

Anyone care to clarify the mixed information here?

Patrick, I was not saying the original BMPCC Speed Booster would cover the MFT sensor on the new Pocket 4K, quite the opposite. What I was trying to say, was the original SB can be used with the new Pocket (as long as the rear lens element of the SB clears the thicker Sensor stack) when shooting in the smaller HD Window mode.

Thanks for the feedback on getting edge to edge sharpness. I think what some are experiencing with soft edge and the SB is the lens being used (most were using Roks Cine or Sigma lenses) and/or an issue with that specific SB. Metabones has had a few poorly calibrated SB slip through their production, and the lens element or Mount is not properly aligned, or an off center issue. These kind of issues will once inconsistent focus issues.
Cheers

Thanks for the clarification Denny.

I see now what the source of the confusion is. This thread was started to discuss the BMPCC Speedbooster, which is a 0.58x reducer. You were thinking I was asking about that. It's clear to me that the 0.58x BMPCC model does not fill the sensor on the BMPCC4K (unless using the window mode to shoot 1080p on a portion of the 4k sensor).

However, I was specifically asking about the 0.64x Speedboosters, of which there are two available - an MFT version and a BMCC version. I suppose I am to blame for asking this question in the wrong topic.

If I am reading this thread correctly, it sounds like both the MFT and BMCC 0.64x speedboosters will fill the sensor on the BMPCC4K.

Is it known whether one a better match for the sensor thickness or flange distance of the BMPCC4k?

I’d say, if someone already has the SpeedBooster for BMCC, they can try it and report back. It can also depend upon the shooting conditions whether or not any out-of-focus issues arise. If you shoot with lots of light and stop down, probably it’s fine, but if you like to shoot wide open on a fast lens, I’d recommend people wait for Metabones to respond if you’re buying a new SpeedBooster for the BMPCC4K.


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I'm getting conflicting feedback:

Andres: "Absolutely. I use the SpeedBooster XL with Full Frame Canon lenses."

Anyone care to clarify the mixed information here?

Patrick,
I stand by my statement. The XL is 100% compatible with the BMPCC 4K and Canon L glass. See here with the 70-200 f/2.8L IS.

021DFF79-896C-4653-B1E2-BBF8253CA540.jpg (406.94 KiB) Viewed 8127 times

And here with the 16-35L f/4 IS.

https://vimeo.com/294264604/c00feb621c

Upon request regarding an updated firmware, MetaBones has confirmed they will do further research. That said, if there are issues, I sure can’t tell.

-Andres

Patrick, got you. No the BMCC Speed Booster will also vignette with new Pocket 4K, as the BMCC sensor is also smaller than the new Pocket 4K. The BMPCC requires at least a 14.5mm projected image circle (this is the sensor diameter from corner to corner), the BMCC is 18mm, which the BMCC SB is designed to project around 18-20mm, depending the on lens being used. The new Pocket 4K requires at least 20.5 mm to fill the UHD window and 22mm to fill the entire sensor.
Cheers

Hi all, i'm currently using the old metabones Nikon G - Bmcc adapter with some full frame AI-s Lenses (50mm f1.4 and 24mm f2.8) and it does not vignette in any recording mode

I am also a user of the original bmpcc speedbooster for nikon f/g and i use a nikon ai 28 3.5 without vignette, i wonder why the ef version of this adapter vignettes with the p4k. Maybe its due to the flange distance. Id rather try myself