Instagram/Insta stories format

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WonSeokChoi

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Instagram/Insta stories format

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 4:30 pm

Unfortunately a lot of my clients nowadays ask for 9:16 format for Insta stories, or 4:5 for Instagram feed. I have the BMPCC4K, which I can rotate, but on my Ronin S that's impossible. Also my UMP is quite difficult to rotate and keep the viewfinder.

But is it possible to import a frame within the viewfinder or add a format to the guide lines in the screen?
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 6:18 pm

Use an external monitor and use gaff tape to create your frame.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 7:49 pm

Have you thought of using a phone or maybe a smaller P&S style camera that can be rotated on your gimbal? What quality is required nowadays for Instagram?
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 9:28 am

michaeldhead wrote:Use an external monitor and use gaff tape to create your frame.


That doesn’t fix my viewfinder
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WonSeokChoi

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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 9:29 am

Australian Image wrote:Have you thought of using a phone or maybe a smaller P&S style camera that can be rotated on your gimbal? What quality is required nowadays for Instagram?


Nowadays the budget for commercial insta stories campaign are quite big. So I’d rather deliver something well shot on a proper cam than showing up with an iPhone cause it is more convenient :roll:
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 9:33 am

I'm not suggesting simply an iPhone, but there are lots of say smaller and good quality mirrorless cameras would provide quite good quality.

Also, aren't your clients after results, not how you achieved those results? How many could tell, or even care, if given a blind test?
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 10:22 am

I have a similar but different issue to the OP.
I'm using the Pocket 4K. First I want to have best quality on file, even though I mostly post to the web and on Instagram. Second, I am sometimes making films where high quality is required, but I also need to post teasers and clips to Instagram. I edit in Resolve and don't want to have to start using iMovie. I have my audio set up, which isn't going to work with my iPhone. And I don't need a second, cheaper camera.
I wish Resolve had an Instagram pre-set. I'm dropping quite huge files on to my Insta feed. And the secondary problem is if I use IG TV they are heavily cropped.
I've watched videos on how to format Resolve for Instagram, but it's a real palaver.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 1:32 pm

Chris Whitten wrote:I have a similar but different issue to the OP.
I'm using the Pocket 4K. First I want to have best quality on file, even though I mostly post to the web and on Instagram. Second, I am sometimes making films where high quality is required, but I also need to post teasers and clips to Instagram. I edit in Resolve and don't want to have to start using iMovie. I have my audio set up, which isn't going to work with my iPhone. And I don't need a second, cheaper camera.
I wish Resolve had an Instagram pre-set. I'm dropping quite huge files on to my Insta feed. And the secondary problem is if I use IG TV they are heavily cropped.
I've watched videos on how to format Resolve for Instagram, but it's a real palaver.


Chris, you’re going to want to render a master from Resolve and then use Compressor (or other app) to make an h264 file with the correct specs for Instagram/Facebook. You’re not going to have great results uploading a large file. Also, instagram TV is supposed to be vertical video, so you’d need to plan that out or put video onto a vertical 9:16 graphic to fill up the space.

WonSeokChoi wrote:Unfortunately a lot of my clients nowadays ask for 9:16 format for Insta stories, or 4:5 for Instagram feed. I have the BMPCC4K, which I can rotate, but on my Ronin S that's impossible. Also my UMP is quite difficult to rotate and keep the viewfinder.

But is it possible to import a frame within the viewfinder or add a format to the guide lines in the screen?


With locked off shots, it’s easier to rotate the camera with a photography tripod or with a gimbal, but you’d really need an external monitor to view easier. Everyone one I know that are highly viewed on Instagram and Instagram tv shoot with cameras sideways, vs a crop of a horizontal. It seems crazy, but that’s what’s happening.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 1:37 pm

With locked off shots, it’s easier to rotate the camera with a photography tripod or with a gimbal, but you’d really need an external monitor to view easier. Everyone one I know that are highly viewed on Instagram and Instagram tv shoot with cameras sideways, vs a crop of a horizontal. It seems crazy, but that’s what’s happening.


True and I use my BMPCC4K often sideways as well. But for my UMP, I'd like to use my viewfinder while the cam is resting on my shoulder, so that singles out the option of using it sideways. It would just be nice if I was able to upload a 9:16 frame guide. But I guess by now that is not possible.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 2:44 pm

David Chapman wrote:Chris, you’re going to want to render a master from Resolve and then use Compressor (or other app) to make an h264 file with the correct specs for Instagram/Facebook. You’re not going to have great results uploading a large file.


So far they've looked fine, just using the Youtube preset, dropped straight onto Instagram.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 6:04 pm

I used to have to do a good bit of vertical video for digital signage. Mostly I shot with the camera on its side, but when that wasn't practical I 9x16 window out of a piece of very thin black plastic (from art supply store) whose outer edge was cut to fit the camera's screen. It basically static clung to the screen and was easy to take on and off.

A piece of semi-transparent plastic (like ND gel) would work even better, as you could still read the OSD.

I know it's a hack, but as far as hacks go, it's fairly clean.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 7:29 pm

I wonder who's going to create the first wide-screen motion picture in vertical format to meet the demands of the mobile phone generation? I find Instagram weird to be honest, given that you can easily hold a mobile phone in any direction.

Again, I'm still curious as to why you can't use a smaller format camera in a vertical position to achieve the desired result. I could easily use my Olympus Tough TG5 on my gimbal in vertical format and get pretty good 4K video, or attach it to my rig vertically and record what the main camera is recording is that's what I wanted. And the AF is pretty good to boot.

There are plenty of one inch sensor cameras that could be used for this and they produce very good quality for this sort of work. And you can get them for a very reasonable price. I'm wondering whether these sorts of cameras have even been tried, or is it simply a presumption that they're no good?
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 11:37 pm

Australian Image wrote:I wonder who's going to create the first wide-screen motion picture in vertical format to meet the demands of the mobile phone generation?
Or perhaps a manufacturer will create either a sensor that can physically rotate 90 degrees inside the camera body, or a sensor that is a large square, and it can then record a 16:9 crop and a 9:16 crop, or any other aspect ratio needed for social feeds equally well, with the difference being just a menu setting.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 11:57 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Or perhaps a manufacturer will create either a sensor that can physically rotate 90 degrees inside the camera body

Isn't that what an L-bracket on the camera is for?
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 12:58 am

Sure, but then all the external controls and mounts are in an inconvenient location, and L-bracket doesn't really work on a gimbal for most cameras. Though Alexa Mini could be an exception.

I shouldn't even speculate about such things because I sincerely hope the portrait orientation social video thing goes away soon.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 1:13 am

While I can stand watching video in portrait mode, what I absolutely can't stand is the trend to put the same video out of focus on either side of the central video. It's the most distracting and annoying thing possible as far as I'm concerned. I could easily tolerate black bars, but no, some idiot has decided that the latter is far more engaging and everyone now copies it, especially news channels.
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Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 1:42 am

Are there minimum standards for Instagram such as the 4K video for Netflix productions? I’m thinking if the minimum standard isn’t beyond HD resolution phones, then no worries delivering 1080x1920 video intended for vertical playback on phones.

You could get there recoding normal UHD 3840x2160 and downscaling 0.888888x or better on the 4.6K sensor, shoot the 3K 3072x2560 and downscale 0.75x. Either gets you to 1920 vertical lines of resolution and a 1080 horizontal pixel count if that’s a desirable goal.

And you still have lots of room in the horizontal direction for reframing or even motion pans in post (Ken Burns effect) which might be an advantage over a camera that actually used a 9:16 recording mode. Shooting horizontally for a vertical delivery can be a blessing in disguise.


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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 1:48 am

I can just imagine it, Jurassic Park X now in cinemascope (vertical) coming to a theatre near you (once we build them).
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 2:53 am

rick.lang wrote:Are there minimum standards for Instagram such as the 4K video for Netflix productions?
There are no standard requirements for Instagram content that I've ever heard or read about. I'd be curious if anyone has seen any.

As for Netflix 4K requirement, it's worth pointing out that it is only there because they charge extra for their 4K subscription tier and they are hedging in case the obsessives who ignorantly believe a 4K master has a direct connection to a 4K camera sensor (so if it wasn't captured on a 4K sensor somehow they were cheated) would file a consumer class action lawsuit and a US judge would side against Netflix. It would be better if Netflix changed the higher tier to be based on HDR rather than 4K. HDR v SDR is a real difference that viewers can actually see (rather than extra pixels that no one can actually see at the distances we all sit from our screens), and it's defined solely by the deliverable so making that change could end the 4K farce that technically disqualifies the Arri Alexa, Amira and Mini from Netflix Original productions.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 4:33 am

I see more TVs are offering HDR albeit HD10 but rarely Dolby’s. So you well could see that in the future as a valuable marketing advantage if Netflix productions also required these recent enhancements that can be appreciated by most viewers.

The TVs can’t really lead the charge beyond the early adopters as ultimately ‘content’ is king as higher dynamic range influences your perception of the story. If you don’t think that’s ‘content’ try looking at the very dark scenes in many shows like Game of Thrones and it’s evident you can’t get the complete story when you can’t see ¾ of the image. America may like to time its television technology upgrades to coincide with the month before Super Bowl, but for the rest of the world waiting for the final year of Game of Thrones, having better dynamic range might be a tasty treat for that ‘big’ game.


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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 4:44 am

rick.lang wrote:...but for the rest of the world waiting for the final year of Game of Thrones, having better dynamic range might be a tasty treat for that ‘big’ game.


I've never watched a single episode of Game of Thrones, or a Superbowl game. :shock:
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 4:56 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote: There are no standard requirements for Instagram content that I've ever heard or read about. I'd be curious if anyone has seen any.

As for Netflix 4K requirement, it's worth pointing out that it is only there because they charge extra for their 4K subscription tier and they are hedging in case the obsessives who ignorantly believe a 4K master has a direct connection to a 4K camera sensor (so if it wasn't captured on a 4K sensor somehow they were cheated) would file a consumer class action lawsuit and a US judge would side against Netflix. It would be better if Netflix changed the higher tier to be based on HDR rather than 4K. HDR v SDR is a real difference that viewers can actually see (rather than extra pixels that no one can actually see at the distances we all sit from our screens), and it's defined solely by the deliverable so making that change could end the 4K farce that technically disqualifies the Arri Alexa, Amira and Mini from Netflix Original productions.

if they take down the 4k requirement, and add HDR wouldn't any camera be up for grabs considering it can shoot in log?
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 5:11 am

It depends. It's not really about log or not. According to Dolby, you'd want a 10bit, if not a 12bit, source file for Dolby Vision mastering, ideally in 444 from a sensor that can deliver at least 12 stops of dynamic range. Most digital cinema cameras can deliver at least 10bit 422 with 12 stops or more at this point. In comparison, for example, the Panasonic GH5 can deliver 10bit 422 but it can't capture anywhere close to 12 stops of dynamic range.

However, Netflix released High Flying Bird as Dolby Vision despite it being shot in 8bit 4:2:0 on an iPhone that's certainly capturing less than 10 stops (and to my eyes, the result was not good). So, it seems Netflix cares little about what the folks at Dolby recommend. I can't imagine Dolby is happy about that (it was the opposite of a good advertisement for their system), but I'm guessing they also can't complain because if it weren't for Netflix it's a good bet that Dolby Vision wouldn't have anywhere close to the rapid wide adoption that it has seen.

Anyway..... I don't think Instagram cares one way or the other what people deliver just as long as they continue to pump in a ton of content that Instragram doesn't have to pay a dime to acquire.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 9:03 am

To get back to topic, quite a few people here have requested 9:16 und 1:1 guides in camera. As much as I hate those formats, they'd be a great help for me, too. Let's see if and when BMD reacts.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 9:07 am

Thanks for the suggestions. We'll look into it but as usual, no promises.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 9:37 am

I had a closer look at my BMPCC4k and can't see any reason why you couldn't shoot vertically with it on a gimbal using an L bracket. I don't know about the Ronin S, but there are plenty of double handled gimbals that should easily accommodate the BMPCC4K.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 10:28 am

Thanks @Kristian for looking into this!. @Australianimage, of course I can get a smaller lighter camera and use that, but that defeats the purpose of building a good quality set and accessories for a commercial job right? I do not own a smaller lighter camera, nor do I want to put more stuff in my already over packed bag.

Also I think we should make a clear distinction between feature films or commercial insta story film. We cannot deny that Instagram has become one of the biggest media platforms thus for companies and brands really interesting and worth shifting budgets. That doesn’t mean that they will re shoot Jurassic Parc on square format.

But thanks all for chipping in this thread. I guess building a vertical rig for my BMPCC4k will be next.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 11:02 am

The thing that no one is addressing, regarding using a different (cheap) camera, or shooting with your BM camera on it's side, is that I imagine a lot of people (including me) are shooting for multiple platforms.
I'm using Instagram as a promo, not as my number one delivery medium.
I am making standard 4K video at the higher quality settings for my own use, for my record company, and slightly dumbed down for Youtube.
It isn't practical to shoot the whole video twice with different cameras.
It makes more sense to be able to reformat within Davinci Resolve.

PS: I agree, it would be easier if Instagram adopted the Youtube format.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 11:24 am

Yes, that exactly. I have at least one client who wants everything in 9:16 AND 1:1. They don't really need 16:9, but since that's a bonus for them, I'd love to shoot UHD non-vertical with 9:16 guides, so I could offer them everything. We tried both last summer (shooting vertical and shooting non-vertical, extracting vertical from it) and the latter was better for everyone involved.
Plus, my concience doesn't act up all the time from me holding the camera wrong. ;)



Kristian Lam wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. We'll look into it but as usual, no promises.


Awesome, thanks.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 8:01 pm

WonSeokChoi wrote:Thanks @Kristian for looking into this!. @Australianimage, of course I can get a smaller lighter camera and use that, but that defeats the purpose of building a good quality set and accessories for a commercial job right? I do not own a smaller lighter camera, nor do I want to put more stuff in my already over packed bag.


Which is why I also suggested getting an L bracket for the camera. But at the end of the day, if the camera starts to become awkward because of the design and the existing gear that you have, there's no choice but to consider alternatives.

Who relies on just one camera for commercial work? When I was doing professional photography, there was no way that I'd go on an assignment with just one camera. Even for the personal stuff that I now do and occasional commercial work, I have 2-3 cameras on hand for different purposes, as one camera is not ideal for everything or two cameras of the same design provides a backup.

Also I think we should make a clear distinction between feature films or commercial insta story film. We cannot deny that Instagram has become one of the biggest media platforms thus for companies and brands really interesting and worth shifting budgets. That doesn’t mean that they will re shoot Jurassic Parc on square format.


That was a joke.

But thanks all for chipping in this thread. I guess building a vertical rig for my BMPCC4k will be next.


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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 9:45 pm

Thank you to Chris and Tim. There may be some who are shooting only in 9:16 and for them vertical makes a lot of sense and would give you the better quality in terms of a given pixel. But most people would want the flexibility of shooting horizontally for delivery in any required format by making carefully composed changes suitable to each format in post.

In the past we’d mostly think of delivering multiple formats for different device playback but wouldn’t change the orientation significantly, such as deliverables for 3840x2160, 1920x1080, 1280x720, 640x360. No reframing or extra edit effort required. But now it could be deliverables such as 4096x1716, 3840x2160, 2160x2160, 1080x1920: but the original footage shot at 4096x2160 would need modifications in post to suit the changing formats.

So there are two valid solutions here regarding BMD cameras: shoot horizontally and shoot vertically. Horizontally exists now, but could use some assist as Kristian acknowledged he will review.


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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 8:01 am

Australian Image wrote:
Who relies on just one camera for commercial work? When I was doing professional photography, there was no way that I'd go on an assignment with just one camera. Even for the personal stuff that I now do and occasional commercial work, I have 2-3 cameras on hand for different purposes, as one camera is not ideal for everything or two cameras of the same design provides a backup.



I've answered this twice already. maybe you are ignoring my posts.
Making a film is capturing a moment. If you shoot twice with different cameras you are capturing two separate moments.
My point is: same moment - different platforms.
It is crazy to expect me to shoot my film twice with different gear, then expect me to edit it twice, just so it looks good on Instagram.
Are movies shot with different cameras and separately edited so they look good in the cinema AND on TV or BluRay? No.
It's just a case of producing a method of working in Resolve so that it can export to the Insta format. Or Instagram grows up and accepts the same standards as other online platforms like Vimeo and Youtube.
Just about everyone I know is shooting to the best HQ, then uploading versions to Youtube and Instagram as a promotion. It makes no workflow or financial sense to produce two completely different products just to promote the one HQ product.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 8:28 am

Chris Whitten wrote:I've answered this twice already. maybe you are ignoring my posts.
Making a film is capturing a moment. If you shoot twice with different cameras you are capturing two separate moments.
My point is: same moment - different platforms.
It is crazy to expect me to shoot my film twice with different gear, then expect me to edit it twice, just so it looks good on Instagram.
Are movies shot with different cameras and separately edited so they look good in the cinema AND on TV or BluRay? No.
It's just a case of producing a method of working in Resolve so that it can export to the Insta format. Or Instagram grows up and accepts the same standards as other online platforms like Vimeo and Youtube.
Just about everyone I know is shooting to the best HQ, then uploading versions to Youtube and Instagram as a promotion. It makes no workflow or financial sense to produce two completely different products just to promote the one HQ product.


I saw what you wrote, but is the OP making full movies for Instagram or shorts for more or less advertising purposes? You could easily have two cameras shooting the exact same scene and capture the same 'moments' in different format, if you need landscape and portrait outputs at the same time.

If you shoot a film in landscape for movies etc and then crop to portrait or square for Instagram, then how are you going to maintain that 'moment'? The visual results will be completely different. That's why film makers choose their format from the outset and that's the format of the end product.

And multi-cam setups are nothing unusual, they provide a different perspective, especially for live broadcasting. Does it reduce the 'moment'? No, it actually enhances things by providing a different perspective of an ongoing scene. Why not emulate that experience and offer something different if multiple formats are required?

And the BMPCC4K is a cinema camera, not an Instagram camera. But if you want to crop in Resolve, fill your boots, the capability is there. But if the OP is asking for the camera to accommodate that, then you might need two cameras, one for shooting cinema and one for shooting Instagram.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 am

Only because even professionals are often working in a low budget environment.
I get your point, but I guess the simplest solution is for Instagram to be more like Youtube (format wise).
But essentially, I'm just saying I shoot with the Pocket 4K because I want the best quality at the end of the day, despite the fact I might be uploading most of my work to crappy internet formats.
It's hard enough to get one image to look right, rather than duelling with multiple cameras at multiple angles.
And it's wasting my time to edit two different versions of the film in different media (BM 4KProRes and Panasonic codec).
I agree though, it's not BMD's problem, but as they offer presets for Youtube and Vimeo, maybe they can develop a preset for IG TV. A lot of people are using it for promo now.
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Re: Instagram/Insta stories format

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 9:02 am

New situations require new solutions. I'm sure people will find those solutions.
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