Consistency of User Interface

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

David Hutchinson

  • Posts: 238
  • Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:00 am
  • Location: East Yorkshire, UK

Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 5:46 pm

OK I admit this may seem like a really small point, but it's annoying the **ll out of me :-)

The menu system on the Ursa G2 when choosing Dynamic Range goes "FILM - EXTENDED VIDEO - VIDEO"
The menu system on the Ursa Broadcast goes "VIDEO - EXTENDED RANGE - FILM"

WHY?

Why have them the opposite way round? when in multi camera shoots it's very possible to have both types of cameras - as we do. Having the menu options reversed on different cameras means you have to double check your muscle memory EVERY SINGLE TIME! :D And it opens the possibility to errors being made.

I did say it was such a little thing, but why is it so annoying?
Offline

Brad Hurley

  • Posts: 1387
  • Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 pm
  • Location: Montréal

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Wouldn't it make sense for a cinema camera to have "film" as the first choice, and for a broadcast camera to have "video" as the first choice?
Resolve 16.1, Mac Pro 3.0 GHz 8-core, 32 gigs RAM, dual AMD D700 GPU.
Audio I/O: Sound Devices USBPre-2
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 12608
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 7:03 pm

The BMPCC4K is considered a cinema camera and it lists Video/Extended Video/ Film.
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Steve Holmlund

  • Posts: 432
  • Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:30 pm
  • Location: Montara, California

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 7:04 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:Wouldn't it make sense for a cinema camera to have "film" as the first choice, and for a broadcast camera to have "video" as the first choice?


I think David is suggesting the same order for the settings when you cycle through them. You could modify the default setting based on "cinema" or "broadcast". Of course, if the settings must be entered every time you power up, then this wouldn't be a solution.

Steve
Steve Holmlund
Hobbyist
BMPCC, vintage Rokkor lenses, Olympus 12-40 and 12-100, Panasonic 100-300 II
SmallHD Focus, i7 8700k / GTX 1080
Offline

Brad Hurley

  • Posts: 1387
  • Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 pm
  • Location: Montréal

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 7:09 pm

Steve Holmlund wrote:I think David is suggesting the same order for the settings when you cycle through them. You could modify the default setting based on "cinema" or "broadcast". Of course, if the settings must be entered every time you power up, then this wouldn't be a solution.


Yes, I was just noting that it makes intuitive sense for the first choice of settings in a broadcast camera to be "video" rather than "film." The best solution would be to make it a user-settable preference. I imagine most users of the Broadcast camera would be upset if the default were switched, but if all users had the option to choose their default it would make everyone happy.
Resolve 16.1, Mac Pro 3.0 GHz 8-core, 32 gigs RAM, dual AMD D700 GPU.
Audio I/O: Sound Devices USBPre-2
Offline

David Hutchinson

  • Posts: 238
  • Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:00 am
  • Location: East Yorkshire, UK

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 7:16 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:Wouldn't it make sense for a cinema camera to have "film" as the first choice, and for a broadcast camera to have "video" as the first choice?


I think consistency of the user experience trumps the neatness of camera design/purpose - shouldn't we be designing for people, not cameras to look logical? In a single camera context yes I understand why the choices were made - but where you are constantly changing between cameras it's just a pain.

Just my opinion - I accept other opinions are valid too :-)
Offline

Brad Hurley

  • Posts: 1387
  • Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 pm
  • Location: Montréal

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 7:28 pm

David Hutchinson wrote:In a single camera context yes I understand why the choices were made - but where you are constantly changing between cameras it's just a pain.


Agreed, but I wonder how many productions use a combination of Ursas and Ursa Broadcasts? In designing the menu defaults BMD probably assumed that broadcast teams would stick with the Broadcast and film crews would stick with the Ursa, but maybe there's more mixing of the two than they expected.

It's strange that the Pocket 4K uses the same order of dynamic range choices as the Ursa Broadcast. That one makes no sense to me.
Resolve 16.1, Mac Pro 3.0 GHz 8-core, 32 gigs RAM, dual AMD D700 GPU.
Audio I/O: Sound Devices USBPre-2
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 12608
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 7:45 pm

The cameras remember their settings except when you update firmware. The idea of consistency is good. But I’d personally almost never change it from Film anyway. That’s good for me to get the most accurate Zebras and False Colour for example. For those who need to change it, consistency is always appreciated where feasible and relevant.

The same thing could be said about Audio settings that are more complicated and do require checking each time to be safe or to reflect different mics. Not all options are applicable across all cameras, but for those common options, it may make sense.
Rick Lang
Offline

David Hutchinson

  • Posts: 238
  • Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:00 am
  • Location: East Yorkshire, UK

Re: Consistency of User Interface

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 9:16 am

rick.lang wrote:The cameras remember their settings except when you update firmware. The idea of consistency is good. But I’d personally almost never change it from Film anyway. That’s good for me to get the most accurate Zebras and False Colour for example. For those who need to change it, consistency is always appreciated where feasible and relevant.


I agree for many people it wouldn't be an issue, but I do a huge variety of productions, live streaming, TV programs, nature, corporate, conferences and I find that film isn't always the correct choice for every job. It becomes noticeable when I sit the night before and set the cameras up for the next days shoot.

The BMPCC4K is an idiosyncrasy, I don't use it as much as the Ursa's but Brad is right, going by the previous explanations Video should be on the right as a cinema camera - yet it's the same as the Broadcast! That to me says there is no thinking behind the order, it's just different teams had different ideas.

I don't care which way round it is - just be consistent.

And I know - this is a really nerdy point and I say it a bit with tongue in cheek - but if you're listening Blackmagic....Please .... :ugeek:

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Massimo and 18 guests