Introducing Blackmagic Production Camera 4K

Also, as someone else recently pointed out: RED has managed to recover from their past transgressions.

Have they ?

Still haven't seen a lot of Dragon footage....even though they were doing Dragon upgrades at NAB ?????

jb

Question for, John Brawley. In your experience shooting with the BMPC 4K, what do you like most about the camera? Do you still prefer the BMCC 2.5K?

I prefer the greater DR of the BMCC over the increased resolution of the 4K.

jb

Did anyone know really when this camera comes in to production. Exact date when it is going to release.

i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI.

you forget about HDRx which gives 18 stops with MX and 22 stops with Dragon. Plus, do you get 5K or 6K images? High speed? What about the RAW handling tools of the R3D files? The plugs for other professional gear?
Timecode and timecode syncing? Even so, even if the DR is one stop higher on paper, you can't pull the same out of the 5D images like you can with both Red and Alexa and as John Brawley said, where is the side by side?

With or without hack the 5D isn't even comparable to Red and even though Alexa holds the same resolution it holds one of the best basic looks pre grade and the camera workflow and built is made for experienced filmmakers like no other.

I prefer the greater DR of the BMCC over the increased resolution of the 4K.

A downsized 4K to 1080 images till gives a better 1080p image, but yeah that loss of 1 stop is a pain.
On the good side there's no wobble and an almost s35 sensor, which is good for those EF lenses and the canon cine-serie.

AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI.

And the demonstrable visual side by side proof of this is where ?

jb

A side by side comparison is coming soon....
tc

i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI.

you forget about HDRx which gives 18 stops with MX and 22 stops with Dragon. Plus, do you get 5K or 6K images? High speed? What about the RAW handling tools of the R3D files? The plugs for other professional gear?
Timecode and timecode syncing? Even so, even if the DR is one stop higher on paper, you can't pull the same out of the 5D images like you can with both Red and Alexa and as John Brawley said, where is the side by side?

With or without hack the 5D isn't even comparable to Red and even though Alexa holds the same resolution it holds one of the best basic looks pre grade and the camera workflow and built is made for experienced filmmakers like no other.

I prefer the greater DR of the BMCC over the increased resolution of the 4K.

A downsized 4K to 1080 images till gives a better 1080p image, but yeah that loss of 1 stop is a pain.
On the good side there's no wobble and an almost s35 sensor, which is good for those EF lenses and the canon cine-serie.

Well that's correct!
Both of these cameras are of different league...no comparison of course, it's just that a $3000 dollar camera is now capable of 14bit RAW and three stops more of DR and that's remarkable...
Although i still prefer and like BMCC's IQ and look.
tc

With Magic Lantern hack, the 5d mark iii is able to produce 14 stops of dynamic range as of now! sorry i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI. Although not all information at EOSHD is credible as it is the case with almost all forums.

Have you read the technical details? Sacrificing half the resolution to get a sort of HDR imaging (and a lot of trouble at the debayering stage) is a neat trick, but not really usefull. You can't just go for the numbers, you always have to consider the whole process and compare the final output.

Also, as someone else recently pointed out: RED has managed to recover from their past transgressions.

Have they ?

Still haven't seen a lot of Dragon footage....even though they were doing Dragon upgrades at NAB ?????

jb

I'm just using RED as an example of a company who arguably screwed-up in the past, and who in most people's eyes have recovered from that.

Of course, just because RED (or any company) recovered once doesn't mean that they can't stumble again.

The future is hard to predict.

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With Magic Lantern hack, the 5d mark iii is able to produce 14 stops of dynamic range as of now! sorry i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI. Although not all information at EOSHD is credible as it is the case with almost all forums.

Have you read the technical details? Sacrificing half the resolution to get a sort of HDR imaging (and a lot of trouble at the debayering stage) is a neat trick, but not really usefull. You can't just go for the numbers, you always have to consider the whole process and compare the final output.

Absolutely Mac!!
I am just excited about the junk i had and it turned out to be gold the next morning without having me pay anything for it!!
Well! i know and understand the "Pain" theory that's absolutely the case!

Peter, I suggest you engage head before open mouth. Andrew at EOSHD made that decsion because he believe BMD wont deliver on the promise date. Whether BMD deliver on time is inconsequential here since Andrew has made up his mind to cancel.
You are behaving like a despot and could not tolerate others for thinking differently than yourself.

BTW since when did you become a spokesman for BMD? They be too embarrass to have you speak for them.

I don't care what Andrew decided. Apparently he based his decision on his inability to read a calendar, plus his inability to understand typical product distribution. Or something. Who cares?

How am I acting like a despot by pointing you toward the calendar, by explaining what most manufacturers mean by "Shipping [month]", and by explaining how most products are distributed?

Try living under a real despot and then get back to us, OK?

And yes, since I don't work for BMD, I'm allowed to say things they aren't. As are you. Funny how that works.

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everyone who wants to come Turkey to experience that is welcomed.

zephyrnoid: "I'd hate to say that BlackMagic is following in the footsteps of RED Scarlet. A disasterous roll out. Worse still, they may end up shipping but will not be able to sustain after-market support or timely product refresh's.Is this the second most hyped up roll out in HD camera history to date? Perhaps BlackMagic ought to sell out to a real camera maker and stick to recorders and drives"

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/308 ... c-cameras/

EOSHD is a useless site to quote, they were the ones who said the 5dm3 getting the ml raw hack made it a close contender with RED (and possibly Arri too). It's a terrible excuse for a site.

With Magic Lantern hack, the 5d mark iii is able to produce 14 stops of dynamic range as of now! sorry i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI. Although not all information at EOSHD is credible as it is the case with almost all forums.
tc

EOSHD the blog is distinct from EOSHD the forum so when you are not quoting the site, you are quoting the forum member. That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.

I've shot both Epic and 5D Mark III in raw. The 5D Mark III's 14bit uncompressed raw 1080p image is like a raw CR2 still and not like video. It is a different league of performance to what we had previously with DSLRs. Yes they are comparable at 1080p in fact the 5D Mark III is less noisy - both in terms of the ISOs AND the fan

With Magic Lantern hack, the 5d mark iii is able to produce 14 stops of dynamic range as of now! sorry i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI. Although not all information at EOSHD is credible as it is the case with almost all forums.

Have you read the technical details? Sacrificing half the resolution to get a sort of HDR imaging (and a lot of trouble at the debayering stage) is a neat trick, but not really usefull. You can't just go for the numbers, you always have to consider the whole process and compare the final output.

Many places reported this 14 stops of dynamic range without mentioning the drawbacks. Mac is correct that in order to get 14 stops instead of the native 11.5ev of the 5D Mark III's CMOS you introduce artefacts and decrease resolution.

The CMOS has a feature where it can read lines at alternating ISOs but it isn't the same as the Alexa's dual gain readout for higher DR. The 14 stops really does make a huge difference to the image but I won't be using it until the drawbacks have less impact on resolution.

As it is dynamic range is already very good. If you find you have enough dynamic range in your 5D raw stills then you will find you have enough in the 1080p raw as well, because like I said before it is literally a direct tap on the sensor and nothing is thrown away to do that video stream.

12 minutes to a 64GB card but you can compress the raw to CineForm / ProRes, etc. afterwards.

The reason I cancelled my mFT Blackmagic order had nothing to do with the 5D Mark III, as I'd still love to be able to use all my GH2 glass on that camera. I cancelled because I was waiting patiently for 9 months and nobody could tell me an ETA, and by the time the Pocket Cinema Camera was announced I realised I could get similar results for $999 in a nicer form factor.

In my view Blackmagic should cancel the 4K camera until a better sensor comes along and concentrate on improving what they already have. The 2.5K BMCC mFT is a very very good camera and all it needs is to be improved with a better form factor.

I still have my BMCC EF which I got from CVP in November last year and I've enjoyed shooting with it. http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/16 ... ema-camera

When the 4K model was announced I wrote on my blog "One final thought. These cameras MUST be delivered. Blackmagic’s reputation cannot afford another BMCC 2012 situation. If they tell their dealers and customers July, it must ship in July and ship in large quantities." http://www.eoshd.com/content/10063/maki ... ema-camera

If Blackmagic Design had listened to this advice we wouldn't be in the situation we now find ourselves in.

Cancel the 4k prior to release, much less before seeing the footage? Such a silly thing to say.

I know we've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in design and tooling, but the internet is advicing us to just chuck it in the toilet. Things that make you say "hmmmm".

With Magic Lantern hack, the 5d mark iii is able to produce 14 stops of dynamic range as of now! sorry i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI. Although not all information at EOSHD is credible as it is the case with almost all forums.

Have you read the technical details? Sacrificing half the resolution to get a sort of HDR imaging (and a lot of trouble at the debayering stage) is a neat trick, but not really usefull. You can't just go for the numbers, you always have to consider the whole process and compare the final output.

Many places reported this 14 stops of dynamic range without mentioning the drawbacks. Mac is correct that in order to get 14 stops instead of the native 11.5ev of the 5D Mark III's CMOS you introduce artefacts and decrease resolution.

The CMOS has a feature where it can read lines at alternating ISOs but it isn't the same as the Alexa's dual gain readout for higher DR. The 14 stops really does make a huge difference to the image but I won't be using it until the drawbacks have less impact on resolution.

As it is dynamic range is already very good. If you find you have enough dynamic range in your 5D raw stills then you will find you have enough in the 1080p raw as well, because like I said before it is literally a direct tap on the sensor and nothing is thrown away to do that video stream.

12 minutes to a 64GB card but you can compress the raw to CineForm / ProRes, etc. afterwards.

The reason I cancelled my mFT Blackmagic order had nothing to do with the 5D Mark III, as I'd still love to be able to use all my GH2 glass on that camera. I cancelled because I was waiting patiently for 9 months and nobody could tell me an ETA, and by the time the Pocket Cinema Camera was announced I realised I could get similar results for $999 in a nicer form factor.

In my view Blackmagic should cancel the 4K camera until a better sensor comes along and concentrate on improving what they already have. The 2.5K BMCC mFT is a very very good camera and all it needs is to be improved with a better form factor.

I still have my BMCC EF which I got from CVP in November last year and I've enjoyed shooting with it. http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/16 ... ema-camera

When the 4K model was announced I wrote on my blog "One final thought. These cameras MUST be delivered. Blackmagic’s reputation cannot afford another BMCC 2012 situation. If they tell their dealers and customers July, it must ship in July and ship in large quantities." http://www.eoshd.com/content/10063/maki ... ema-camera

If Blackmagic Design had listened to this advice we wouldn't be in the situation we now find ourselves in.

!
I don't mean to sound like Peter here, but to my recollection it is still july!

yeah... they shouldnt cancel the 4k till august.

Blackmagic's current 2.5K BMCC is already really good.

In my view there's a list of easy stuff that can be done with their existing camera, which should be priority number one ahead of any 4K camera.

- F5-like form factor. Small and modular. Smaller but higher quality LCD, articulated. Weight reduction.
- Compressed raw
- Audio meters
- Active mFT mount
- Move punch-in focus assist around the frame

Call it BMCC Mark II. Sorted.

Sometimes it is better to consolidate what you already have than announce two more cameras you can't deliver on time or in volume just 12 months after the first one.

That's my opinion Yours may differ. If so, please refrain from personal attacks.

... When the 4K model was announced I wrote on my blog "One final thought. These cameras MUST be delivered. Blackmagic’s reputation cannot afford another BMCC 2012 situation. If they tell their dealers and customers July, it must ship in July and ship in large quantities." http://www.eoshd.com/content/10063/maki ... ema-camera

If Blackmagic Design had listened to this advice we wouldn't be in the situation we now find ourselves in.

IMHO, thank goodness BMD didn't listen to your advice!

If they had, we'd probably be waiting until 2015 for the BMPC-4K instead of Summer or Fall 2013.

I doubt the BMPC-4K will be the last "high end" camera BMD will develop. There'll always be other sensor and processor chips for them to use. No point waiting for the "perfect" hardware, because it doesn't exist.

Based on what I've read, the BMPC-4K as described on BMD's website will be a fantastic camera for most of my needs. Theres' no 1 camera perfect for all productions, ever.

Also, IMHO it's all but certain that BMD will be successful even if they stumble in a big way once or twice more. As difficult as it's been for BMD the past year or so, things would have to get much worse to kill a company BMD's size. They're no where near that now, even if the new cams are late (which they're not yet), dramatic declarations to the contrary.

The future is hard to predict. We'll see.

-

The thing is that decisions on software and form factor have already been decided on.
The 2.5 and the 4k fit in the same box.
The pocket cam, 2.5 and 4k are running the same software.
The differences are the sensors and circuit boards.

The pocket camera may well be the cash cow here, but in order to be all in, the 2.5 and the 4k shake the industry up in respect to how much people pay for DR and frame size etc.

It makes no sense to impart advice on business decisions that cannot be taken seriously. They bought the land, are building the house, and your advice is to tell them to scrap it, live somewhere else.... in a matter of speaking.

At this point REALISTICALLY, things are just going to play out. Customers are either on board with an order, waiting to order when they see, or buying something else.

That is how I see it.

Question for, John Brawley. In your experience shooting with the BMPC 4K, what do you like most about the camera? Do you still prefer the BMCC 2.5K?

I prefer the greater DR of the BMCC over the increased resolution of the 4K.

jb

My suspicion since pre-ordering has been that as much as the S35 will fit my glass and the global shutter will blah blah blah, the lost stop is always going to bug me.

And so I'm probably going to purchase an EF 2.5k too.

... When the 4K model was announced I wrote on my blog "One final thought. These cameras MUST be delivered. Blackmagic’s reputation cannot afford another BMCC 2012 situation. If they tell their dealers and customers July, it must ship in July and ship in large quantities." http://www.eoshd.com/content/10063/maki ... ema-camera

If Blackmagic Design had listened to this advice we wouldn't be in the situation we now find ourselves in.

IMHO, thank goodness BMD didn't listen to your advice!

-

My advice, cited above was to ship in July. Simple really! See this?... Inside that is a brain. Try it out!

When the BMCC still lacks basic things like histogram and audio meters, for Blackmagic to be prioritising a whole new camera so soon before stuff like that is even done on the BMCC isn't nice for customers. The Super35 sensor in the 4K model isn't the be all and end all and neither is 4K. Resolution is just one part of image quality, like building size is one part of architecture.

Because of the extra circuitry inherent in the pixel design of a global shutter CMOS you lose so much sensitivity you can probably put the Metabones Speed Booster on a BMCC mFT, stop the lens down to F5.6 for sharp corners and have 13 stops DR with a Super 35mm depth of field / FOV characteristics already and a native ISO of 800!

Yep...Pushed back to September...same old song

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10856/blac ... -september

A few observations from the BMD LA Trade show today. Forgive me if I am repeating any of this information.

1. It is my understanding that the pocket camera will begin shipping Immediately.

2. The BETA 4k on display was locked down at 400 ISO.

3. It could not hold focus upon zooming out.

4. No 4k footage or presentation.

5. The rep said it would be at least another 4-5 weeks before we see the 4k at best.

That is all.

A few observations from the BMD LA Trade show today. Forgive me if I am repeating any of this information.

1. It is my understanding that the pocket camera will begin shipping Immediately.

2. The BETA 4k on display was locked down at 400 ISO.

3. It could not hold focus upon zooming out.

4. No 4k footage or presentation.

5. The rep said it would be at least another 4-5 weeks before we see the 4k at best.

That is all.

Any news on pocket quantities and the capability of focus, does it autofocus while filming etc? Will it ship with RAW?

I'm afraid I didn't get too deep in as I had to run in and out and my primary focus was on the 4k. However I believe the pocket will not ship with RAW but will be updated with RAW in a firmware update later. That could be a mistake but I thought I overheard that.

... In my view Blackmagic should cancel the 4K camera until a better sensor comes along and concentrate on improving what they already have. The 2.5K BMCC mFT is a very very good camera and all it needs is to be improved with a better form factor.

I still have my BMCC EF which I got from CVP in November last year and I've enjoyed shooting with it. http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/16 ... ema-camera

When the 4K model was announced I wrote on my blog "One final thought. These cameras MUST be delivered. Blackmagic’s reputation cannot afford another BMCC 2012 situation. If they tell their dealers and customers July, it must ship in July and ship in large quantities." http://www.eoshd.com/content/10063/maki ... ema-camera

If Blackmagic Design had listened to this advice we wouldn't be in the situation we now find ourselves in.

The way you wrote what you wrote, it appeared that "If Blackmagic Design had listened to this advice ...", applied to most everything in your post, including (for example), "... ... In my view Blackmagic should cancel the 4K camera until a better sensor comes along and concentrate on improving what they already have. ..."

That's what my post was in reply to.

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So BMD have officially fluffed it again! No 4k till at least September, probably much later. Why oh why didn't they just give a workable shipping date? They should have learned by now!

I'm not angry. Just disappointed. It sort of feels like a manipulation to steal attention at NAB. Which from a marketing perspective I understand but from a human one I despise. Needless to say I'll be happy when I get my camera. I know, I know, worlds smallest violin.

So BMD have officially fluffed it again! No 4k till at least September, probably much later. Why oh why didn't they just give a workable shipping date? They should have learned by now!

I know what a letdown, It's almost as bad as when I was told that Santa Claus was not real
I Still believe in Santa, well the fable anyway, But I don't think he is real, and I don't think the 4K is real anymore, Thanks Blackmagic, You just broke the hearts of Millions of Cinematographers around the world

Shame on you!

I actually think waiting a few weeks, or even 2-3 months isn't so much the issue, as the quantities they are shipped in.

How long will it take them to go through the $999 Pocket pre-order list if they ship in BMCC 2012 quantities? Bloody years!

Also just returned from the LA event. The theatrical presentation labeled 'camera' was PACKED, but that turned out to be Marco detailing his ENG configuration, rather than details about the new cameras. Still, an interesting setup and worth listening to. Several people walked out when they figured out he had no surprises... but what are you going to do?

From the sales dude, I unofficially got the same unofficial details already listed above by Ben. The pocket camera started shipping from the factory last night- compressed DNG not active yet, only ProRes, Expect firmware update. Expect manufacturing / shipping to ramp up over a non-specific amount of time... first few in dealers hands maybe end of next week-ish, no idea how many, or how fast, blah blah.

Did you know pretty girls of a certain age get PAID to sit and read magazines while people take pictures of them? Good job, if it doesn't creep you out too much!

The 4k- There was only one camera (maybe two?,) but they DID have the camera. Not Vaporware. It's only doing ProRes 4k at this point, but it's also not a shipping model. Peaking was better. The only other note is that we gave it the swish-pan shake, and it appears that the global shutter is good! No noticeably curved verticals. Also, it had a photo lens, not a cinema or ENG lens mounted, so I wouldn't sweat the 'holding focus' issue yet. Didn't unmount the lens (too crowded) but based on the wide end of the zoom that was attached, it was definitely not the same sized sensor I'm used to with the BMCC.

Based on the number of attendees, seems like there's a decent amount of demand for these cameras! Oh.. and a few people were looking at resolve and switchers, too...

BM now says they will possibly ship the 4k in September! Funny how they say that in the day they are supposed to be shipping (by funny I mean horribly disrespectful). They couldn't have said that a few months ago? It seems like BM will do everything they can to be as vapid and unreliable as possible. I think they get a kick out of making our lives easier...they are probably having a good laugh right now. It must be good entertainment for them to cause so much frustration. So, taking a page from BM, I am going to officially announce a new camera I am developing. It's called the Flazen. It has 8k res, 10000 fps, shoot in pitch black, gold plated, pocket sized, 10k hour battery life, video camera.
Price is only $2999 and will ship tomorrow July 26th, 2013 (or whenever I get done having fun with everyone's pre-order money and use the rest to make the camera). I am sure at those specs I will have a lot of fun, so it may be a while...who knows.
Blackmagic, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Your company is a truly deplorable example of how to run a business.

I actually think waiting a few weeks, or even 2-3 months isn't so much the issue, as the quantities they are shipped in.

How long will it take them to go through the $999 Pocket pre-order list if they ship in BMCC 2012 quantities? Bloody years!

I'll agree with you, wholeheartedly, but only if that's what actually happens.

Isn't it a bit premature to get worked-up about something that not only hasn't happened, but which is also unpredictable?

-

The fact a delay hasn't happened yet as it's still July and that instead we're all left guessing when it will be delayed and by how much is exactly the reason I am giving Blackmagic the advice I am giving them.

The unpredictability is bad for customers and bad for reputation.

If Canon had announced the 5D Mark III and then 3 months later say it now has a major feature missing (raw) and we have no idea how many we can build of them, you imagine how the brand perception changes.

They should have communicated a firm shipping date and stuck to it.

Question for, John Brawley. In your experience shooting with the BMPC 4K, what do you like most about the camera? Do you still prefer the BMCC 2.5K?

I prefer the greater DR of the BMCC over the increased resolution of the 4K.

jb

Thanks , John.

The fact a delay hasn't happened yet as it's still July and that instead we're all left guessing when it will be delayed and by how much is exactly the reason I am giving Blackmagic the advice I am giving them.

The unpredictability is bad for customers and bad for reputation.

If Canon had announced the 5D Mark III and then 3 months later say it now has a major feature missing (raw) and we have no idea how many we can build of them, you imagine how the brand perception changes.

They should have communicated a firm shipping date and stuck to it.

Some people, including myself, would rather BMD gave a relatively general target time frame, such as "Fall 2013", or "Late 2013", or even more vague than that ("TBA", in other words, no date at all), or some such.

But as we know, BMD hasn't done that -- so far. Instead they set a firm "date", like what they've done twice now. "Shipping [month]" usually means shipping to a distributor by the end of the month specified. Many of us think that just sets them up (or any company that does the same) for failure. Sure, there's a chance they might get lucky and ship by the self-imposed deadline. But meeting a deadline when you're attempting to do something new (e.g.: BMPC-4K) in a field you have little experience in is asking for trouble.

Marc Hood has a reasonable-sounding theory that BMD sets a hard deadline, and allows dealers to accept pre-orders from end-users, so that BMD get $ from dealers when they in-turn place their pre-orders with BMD. (Apologies to Marc if I'm misquoting his theory.) I don't know if BMD does this, but if it's true, it provides an explanation for why BMD might do what they do. Again, I have no idea if it's true or not.

I think customers and dealers deal with uncertainty fairly well. Both will buy something else if a new product isn't available. In BMD's case, they currently have two versions of a very nice camera ready to sell right now in most parts of the world.

Something that might help smooth-out the process and build good will could be some form of buyer-protection. For example, maybe if a customer buys a BMCC-MFT, and less than 30-days later BMD starts shipping the BMPC-4K, the customer could have the option to return their fully-functional BMCC-MFT to the dealer, minus a reasonable re-stocking fee, if they buy a BMPC-4K at its regular price.

Just an example. I think there will be a good market for the returned, slightly-used "semi-battle-tested" BMCCs (or whichever BMD camera it was) if offered at a reasonable price with a full factory warranty.

Point is I don't completely disagree with you, but I think there's a range of opinion about what BMD might do going forward to make the path a less rocky one -- both for themselves and their customers.

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Black magic have been extremely dishonest about this whole situation, pissing everyone off! They said they are still on for a July shipping last week and would let people know if there was any changes to that. They must have known that they wouldn't hit July on the production camera for a while now, hence their silence on it. But decided to wait till LA when they had no choice but to answer people face to face. And they delay it another month. My guess is it will be another 2 month before it starts to dribble into the market.
BMD need to seriously sort their PR out before they become the biggest running joke in the industry! At the expense of many heart broken customers!!

A few observations from the BMD LA Trade show today. Forgive me if I am repeating any of this information...

The BETA 4k on display was locked down at 400 ISO.

No 4k footage or presentation.

The rep said it would be at least another 4-5 weeks before we see the 4k at best.

That is all.

I suspected previously that to hold their well published claim of 12 stops dynamic range, they would need to sacrifice up to one stop of sensitivity. Looks like that was right.

No footage sounds to me that they are really wanting the footage to grade seamlessly with the other cameras and that can't be easy since the sensor is completely different. Best to do it right even if that takes more time.

But saying at least another 4-5 weeks possibly has the ring of déjà vu, doesn't it? Sadly. Until we hear Grant Petty with some specifics, this could just as easily mean 4-5 months. Of course I hope not but...

Food for thought to digest in August:
I can understand anyone who prefers the extra stop of dynamic range of the BMCC and BMPCC, but for me coming from the lowly Canon HV20, 12 stops is sweet enough.

I agree with Andrew Reid that putting the Metabones Speed Booster on the BMCC MFT will give you a wider angle of view than the BMPC4K (not to mention another stop of aperture), but getting that roughly 35mm cinema view without added glass on the BMPC4K has appeal.

I even prefer the MFT lenses like the hyperprimes from SLR Magic on the BMCC MFT to the EF lenses like Samyang or Sigma on the BMPC4K EF mount. I just can't afford real ciné lenses to make the BMPC4K shine but the stills lenses can work as we have seen gems from so many contributors here.

There's only one option if you want global shutter but I'm rarely going to do whip pans in a film and I'm not shooting Grand Prix either. But moving cars and buses and trains can be a visual distraction without that global shutter.

In conclusion, I'm going to wait it out and make the decision when all the facts are known. I share some of the disappointment of those who were banking on both cameras being shipped this month but personally it's still worth waiting for in the expectation that the results will amaze for the price. Looking forward to seeing the community's footage from the BMPCC next month!

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This is the first and the last time I will bitch about the issue of delayed shipment.
At this point there are too many third party and hearsay speculations.

I think it is in the black magic design interest to make an official announcement on this issue.
Thank you.

zephyrnoid: "I'd hate to say that BlackMagic is following in the footsteps of RED Scarlet. A disasterous roll out. Worse still, they may end up shipping but will not be able to sustain after-market support or timely product refresh's.Is this the second most hyped up roll out in HD camera history to date? Perhaps BlackMagic ought to sell out to a real camera maker and stick to recorders and drives"

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/308 ... c-cameras/

EOSHD is a useless site to quote, they were the ones who said the 5dm3 getting the ml raw hack made it a close contender with RED (and possibly Arri too). It's a terrible excuse for a site.

With Magic Lantern hack, the 5d mark iii is able to produce 14 stops of dynamic range as of now! sorry i m just pointing towards what is happening with the 5d as i m one of the user of that camera AND yes i can say after the hack it is giving me much more DR than RED and ARRI. Although not all information at EOSHD is credible as it is the case with almost all forums.
tc

So 1 stop of DR is what turns a high end DSLR into a cinematic powerhouse?

3. It could not hold focus upon zooming out.

Holding focus while zooming has nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the lens.

If the lens in not parfocal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parfocal_lens), like most stills zooms, it won't hold focus while zooming. No matter what camera it's on.

Most of the people here, including me come from the creative backgrounds so we as well don't understand the nitty-gritties that goes into managing a huge business like BMD owns. So may be we never know whats cooking inside BMDs kitchen and on what account and under which of their business strategy they are keeping a complete information blackout. But it's a shame that they are still keeping their cards close to their chest while it's the end of the promised month. They should at-least come out and tell us the facts. Sometimes overconfident strategies and utter faith in ones own abilities (or products) do no good to even the huge business empires. Cant they see the level of frustration all over the internet? After all we are the respective customers or end users of their products and we've got every right to know of what caused the delay. I think whatever being discussed here about the shipping of the cameras are completely based on nothing rather all guesstimates. The only entity that can clear the air is BMD and i think it's time for them to come out and make things clear. And please we are sick and tired listening the same following statement over and over again.

(The team is still working to meet the July deadline, but I will let you all know if I hear any update.)

Thanx!

What a shame about the delays. I work under tight deadlines as well and have kicked myself several times for promising a client something at a certain time, only to realize after awhile that there was no way I would be able to deliver on time.

I've since learned from my mistakes and now only tell someone that I will have it ready ASAP.

BM should have learned their lessons from last year's cinema camera delays to NOT make promises that you cannot keep.

Sadly, they have not learned this lesson (even via the "hard way") and the website still shows, "Shipping July."

Similar cameras in the price range of the BMPC are mostly the 5d miii, AF 100, etc, which are available now. I considered the cinema camera, but after the announcement of the 4k camera it "seemed" to be worth the wait to get much more resolution for a nominal increase in price.

Unfortunately, after missing consecutive deadlines of delivering fully-functioning, all-features-included cameras I simply don't trust BM at this point and have to move on as if they are not a serious manufacturer. If they were, these delays would not have occurred twice. I mean, let's be honest, BM is 0 for 2 at this point and the reputation can only suffer from these mishaps. How could this possibly be a good thing even if you are a fanboy or are the ceo of the company? Well, it isn't a good thing and now we must move on for the time being. Hopefully BM gets their act together and straightens this out, but I as the consumer who is willingly paying you thousands of dollars to acquire your product, cannot trust your word for anything at this point.

Fanboys aside, I wanted to like the product as much as anyone else for the price, but the reality is that BM simply cannot deliver the fully functional product at the specified time. This is completely unacceptable; especially for it to occur twice in a row for your first ever cameras.

So, in reality I am only in love with the paper specifications and the price. There is zero footage available for a camera that still shows as being shipped in July on the companies own website.

For @#!$! sake, why would you do this again? Everybody loses in this scenario and I can't wait any longer. The 5d M3 with ML raw will have to be my next purchase in the meantime for my budget and will hopefully be able to look at BM more stable line up of cameras in a few years time.

Good luck BM team!

It is just to bad. I have been checking and looking for updates for release dates now for two weeks.

Read some posts just now that said that we shouldn’t expect the 4k until at least a month or 2.

Don’t know so much about the business of making cameras. But isn’t it dangerous to give promises that you cant keep?

I know that businesses like AUDI for instance often give promises for delivery a couple of weeks after estimated delivery, just to be able to give the customer a happy surprise that the car is delivered not only in time but a couple of weeks early.

I am really curious about the 4k. But holding customer in the dark like they do is just stupid. For how long would you be at a bar waiting to order drinks if the bartender keep on ignoring you?

I will wait until the end of the month. If I don’t get the bartenders attention I will cancel my 4k Cocktail and go to the Canon Bar instead…

Official statement from Blackmagic on new camera shipping:

Simon Westland of Blackmagic Design EMEA

"Blackmagic Design is making significant progress in production of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. Full production manufacturing is underway on the Pocket Cinema Camera with first production units in final testing. This is inline with our initial expectations of the end of July and means the camera will start to ship in quantity during August. There are several weeks of work to do on Production Camera 4K before this will enter full production manufacturing, however we expect to ship the first quantities of this model before the end of August."

Official statement from Blackmagic on new camera shipping:

Simon Westland of Blackmagic Design EMEA

"Blackmagic Design is making significant progress in production of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. Full production manufacturing is underway on the Pocket Cinema Camera with first production units in final testing. This is inline with our initial expectations of the end of July and means the camera will start to ship in quantity during August. There are several weeks of work to do on Production Camera 4K before this will enter full production manufacturing, however we expect to ship the first quantities of this model before the end of August."

Source: http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

"Blackmagic Design is making significant progress in production of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. ...

How in the World can an official announcement declare "significant progress in production" in one sentence and admit the imminent miss of the shipping d8 in another? I just don't get it...

"Blackmagic Design is making significant progress in production of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. ...

How in the World can an official announcement declare "significant progress in production" in one sentence and admit the imminent miss of the shipping d8 in another? I just don't get it...

You come across as such a negative person on here and bmc user. I sincerely hope that negativity doesn't come across in the work that you do. Is it really that important to you personally that the cameras come out as soon as possible? I, for one, want the best possible quality straight away and if that means a delay, well, so be it.

I, for one, want the best possible quality straight away and if that means a delay, well, so be it.

As of l8, I have been noticing the join d8s of posters. If you had joined in 2012, I would have a gr8er appreciation for your opinions concerning BMD shipping delays. However, you are over a year l8 to the dance and possibly lack a grasp of what real hard core w8ing is all about. And if you think w8ing = better quality, you might consider a rethink.

I, for one, want the best possible quality straight away and if that means a delay, well, so be it.

As of l8, I have been noticing the join d8s of posters. If you had joined in 2012, I would have a gr8er appreciation for your opinions concerning BMD shipping delays. However, you are over a year l8 to the dance and possibly lack a grasp of what real hard core w8ing is all about. And if you think w8ing = better quality, you might consider a rethink.

Okay, you got me there. I only signed up a few days ago but I've been lurking for a few months now and have been well aware of the "dance". I just think people need to calm down and not jump to conclusions and we really need to stop being vicious with each other. This should be an encouraging community, not one where people are ready to throttle each other after one post.

To get back to the topic...

So it looks like September now for shipping? Fingers crossed they're getting close to getting it out there sooner rather than later.