Blackmagic Forum

For US peeps, I ordered mine from a little place called Kellard's. They're showing as unavailable right now, but I found out about them through the BMPCC subreddit. A few people have ordered from them and gotten their cameras pretty quickly. They've got bundles that aren't great, but there is a listing for just the camera. It seems they've gotten more than a couple shipments since launch.

mwalker1000 wrote:
I had a late pre-order at B&H that I cancelled after pre-ordering from Safe Harbor a couple of weeks ago. So far they shipped a few cameras and I'm next! If BMD follows their onsie-twosie-per-week-per-reseller behavior then mine should ship this week. I'm not sure how many are behind me but I have reached out to them and will report back ASAP.

I did have to pay for shipping, but was willing to fork out the $35 for 2-day "most-likely this week" instead of free shipping "sometime next year" from BH.

I received a reply from Safe Harbor saying they see one camera in transit to them (mine!), and there are about 20 pre-orders in their queue.

mmarc21 wrote:For US peeps, I ordered mine from a little place called Kellard's... It seems they've gotten more than a couple shipments since launch.

Yep, I ordered from Kellards.com on October 13th, and they got a new shipment in today and I got my tracking number. Should be here Friday.

Brandon Dunaway wrote:

mmarc21 wrote:For US peeps, I ordered mine from a little place called Kellard's... It seems they've gotten more than a couple shipments since launch.

Yep, I ordered from Kellards.com on October 13th, and they got a new shipment in today and I got my tracking number. Should be here Friday.

Same here...ordered my 2nd one on October 13th and being delivered Friday. Nice B & C cameras to go along with the URSA MINI PRO. Can also actually serve me as an A camera for days I want to travel light.

Well, I am throwing in the towel, and just canceled my preorder. Not waiting any more. Going to stick with the cameras I already have for the time being. The new camera seems to have too many bugs and issues. I am going to wait and see how this pans out.
Cheers

Crazy that some places got orders a week ago and people getting them and B&H is going to be 2+ more months?? Gah. Unreal.

I cancelled my preorder. Tired of waiting. Tired of being misled. First September, then October, then nothing. If Blackmagic Design would just let us know where they are in production then I probably wouldn’t mind waiting but their silence shows no respect to their customers. Disappointing.

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Blackmagic Design should post updates on their website as to the status of their production, not update each individual.

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FYI: I currently own 2 Original URSA cameras, 1 Pocket Cinema Camera, 1 Production Camera 4K, 1 Video Assist HD and 1 Video Assist 4K. The Pocket Cinema Camera 4k would have been a cool tool to add to my collection. It's not something that I actually need.

johnetucker wrote:I cancelled my preorder. Tired of waiting. Tired of being misled. First September, then October, then nothing. If Blackmagic Design would just let us know where they are in production then I probably wouldn’t mind waiting but their silence shows no respect to their customers. Disappointing.

You must be new around here...

@johnetucker I agree for the most part, but question is.. how does BM reach you and tell you if you ordered it somewhere else? I can see a post here in the forums maybe.. though I am not sure how i would know it even exists as I dont seldom go to the main board index and look at posts every day. In my case BH Photo should really be concerned with the long delay and reaching out to BM, as probably their biggest or one of their biggest vendors, I would hope BH and BM communicate in some manner such that BH, who undoubtedly has 1000s of pre-orders, could alleviate the suspense to its customers as to when they will get enough orders to cover pre-orders. It seems, however that isnt the case.

Thing is, you will most likely buy that camera once it is readily available, right? I mean, some might not.. some will be so pissed they waited so long they just go buy something else and never think of it again. but I suspect BM is well aware of how good this camera, in particular, is.. the value, the quality, etc. and thus they are not worried about losing business in droves. They know they will lose some.. but most, including me and many others, who are anxious, pissed of the delay, etc.. will still wait to get our cameras.

It does bug me that if you are lucky enough to order from the right place.. you can get your camera months sooner than others who pre-ordered months ago. The few guys here ordering a week ago and got their cameras.. while many of us ordered months ago and have no clue as to when..but sounds like at lest another month or two.. that is kind of bad in my opinion. BM should have made sure pre-orders were sent in the order received. I realize they are trying to hit many markets and try to be fair to everyone.. but that kinda blows that people ordered 6 months ago and are still waiting, while some ordered a week ago and got it in hand.

If I had a worthy video camera to use right now, I would definitely be waiting to buy later, unfortunately I skipped the canon mark 1,2,3,4, the GH3,4,5 and the BM pocket.. and I am finally tired of waiting.. so well here I am waiting.. but I plan to own one of these bad boys sooner than later.. hopefully within the next month or so!

Justin Jackson wrote:BM should have made sure pre-orders were sent in the order received.

That's actually pretty much what BMD is doing... but it's based on when the VENDORS ordered, because BMD doesn't have visibility into who ordered from the vendor, or when.

So if some tiny shop in the Pacific Northwest that has a good relationship with BMD and knows that it will be able to sell the cameras, it will order as soon as possible, and likely even beat the bigger B&H to the punch, while B&H stops to think about how many to purchase with its initial order before ordering.

So the tiny shop orders five or six, gets two or three preorders, and gets its five before B&H gets its first shipment of 200 (I'm obviously pulling these numbers out of the same thin Pacific NW air that Rick Lang gets his numbers from here ). When B&H reaches some number of preorders, it places another purchase order with BMD. The small shop does the same... but for B&H that's 300 preorders, for the small shop that's seven.

So the seven preorder customers who went with the small local shop get their cameras before the 201st person on B&H's list, and the next 942 people on B&H's list stay on the list while the small shop has two units sitting on its shelf.

So yes, it's frustrating, but there's also not much that BMD can do about it. BMD isn't trying to screw over anyone, it's just trying to get quality cameras that don't cost enough into as many people's hands as it can.

It's hard to be patient I know (just look at the Hydrogen site), but also keep in mind that these Pocket 4K's are NOT competitively priced.

To be competitively priced, BMD would have to charge MORE for them. And stop giving away a $250 dongle that, if IT were competitively priced, would cost $30,000.

I'm looking forward to the preorder queues clearing out so that I can get one also, and I have two friends with preorders in (both with the local PNW shop in my area where I got my three BMD cameras). I knew the queues would be long, but I underestimated them too

It's really not looking good guys, and I have to wonder if BMD is having some manufacturing issues that are impacting their ability to ship in any sizable quantities.

Guess my post about the delay was TRUE. They locked the post because they said it was answered but BM is just trying hide the fact that there is a delay and if not a delay a huge lack of communication.

@Rakesh, all good points.. however if a small shop like Kellards (or whatever it is) got a couple orders, ordered them from BM and got them in in a weeks time.. while BH put in 1000s of orders as far back as April.. and didnt get them in.. it means the pre-orders are not being honored in the order received. I do find the logic of BH waiting for a certain amount of orders before placing the order to BM quite odd. I cant imagine, today, with all the digital integration we have that BH hasnt automated the step to place orders with BM. I cant imagine some guy checks each day at BH and when enough orders are in their system, they make a call to BM and tell them how many they need. That seems so 1980s.

I agree BM isnt trying to screw anyone over.. and you are spot on this camera is worth 2.5x its selling price.. though then they would need to bump the Ursas up a bit too. That said, like many others said, my primary issue is the lack of any communication from BM regarding the delay. I would be fine waiting till March (well not really..but it hardens my point here) if BM came out and said that they got 20,000 pre-orders and can only produce a couple 1000 a month.. fine.. then work with vendors maybe and help them tell their customers how long it will be. Again..its 2018.. not 1980... this kind of stuff is easily automated. I know.. I work (or worked.. having been laid off last week) in that field. There should be no reason even BH with all their money couldnt put in some sort of queue as to where each of us are in the BH queue for cameras. It is a very simple SQL query to pull orders for BM PCC 4K and order by date.

Justin Jackson wrote:@Rakesh, all good points.. however if a small shop like Kellards (or whatever it is) got a couple orders, ordered them from BM and got them in in a weeks time..

A lot of those smaller vendors places their orders at the same time as B&H... which is why the sequencing seems so bizarre; it's because the timestamps that BMD is using aren't customer time stamps, they're vendor timestamps.

Which also means that from our side the timestamps might as well be largely random.

I do find the logic of BH waiting for a certain amount of orders before placing the order to BM quite odd. I cant imagine, today, with all the digital integration we have that BH hasnt automated the step to place orders with BM. I cant imagine some guy checks each day at BH and when enough orders are in their system, they make a call to BM and tell them how many they need. That seems so 1980s.

They might well have that process automated, but that doesn't change anything except for how long it takes to place the next order when the preorder threshold hits.

Again..its 2018.. not 1980... this kind of stuff is easily automated. I know.. I work (or worked.. having been laid off last week) in that field. There should be no reason even BH with all their money couldnt put in some sort of queue as to where each of us are in the BH queue for cameras. It is a very simple SQL query to pull orders for BM PCC 4K and order by date.

There's no way that would ever fly. Money has nothing to do with it; B&H allowing BMD to query its order DB would be a severe breach of privacy.

Safe Harbor pulled through. Just received a tracking number and free overnight upgrade so I wouldn't have to wait a very long weekend. Thomas Kloeffler at SH is amazing. Highly recommended!


-M

I placed my pre-order with Adorama on April 11, and I just got my shipping tracking number.

It sounds like they are starting to free up, at least for the earliest orders. It's been pretty lonely out here

And it's nice that another vendor is getting it out overnight for the weekend. B&H did that for me in the first batch.

So if some tiny shop in the Pacific Northwest that has a good relationship with BMD and knows that it will be able to sell the cameras, it will order as soon as possible, and likely even beat the bigger B&H to the punch, while B&H stops to think about how many to purchase with its initial order before ordering.

Well I did order from a small firm in the Pacifc Northwest, and they got one camera (so far) and are keeping it as a demo camera. That was a month ago, still no more additional cameras shipped to them, I had an order for one of their original cameras ordered right after it was announced, still no camera.
So I canceled (see my comments above).
Cheers

I don't know if there is one, but BMD needs a network of official resellers.
In the end, BMD probably sell most product through the big retailers, more than the local stores. It then damages the bigger retailers if local stores can fulfil orders much more quickly.
It makes no sense that many customers have pre-ordered a product in April from CVP or B&H, and someone can order the same product locally a week ago and get it a few days later.
That essentially will take custom away from the biggest retailers, BMDs bread and butter retailers.
The concept of official resellers makes sure a decent proportion of new product goes to the official outlet, and secondary smaller outlets get fewer and slightly slower delivery.
It makes no sense to have a store with 5,000 pre-orders receiving 10 cameras, while a store with 10 pre-orders gets 5 cameras.
*Numbers plucked out of thin air, but it illustrates my point.

Chris Whitten wrote:I don't know if there is one, but BMD needs a network of official resellers.

They have one - they list authorized resellers on the website for each market. You might be surprised at how much choice you have.

Chris Whitten wrote:In the end, BMD probably sell most product through the big retailers, more than the local stores. It then damages the bigger retailers if local stores can fulfil orders much more quickly.
It makes no sense that many customers have pre-ordered a product in April from CVP or B&H, and someone can order the same product locally a week ago and get it a few days later.
That essentially will take custom away from the biggest retailers, BMDs bread and butter retailers.
The concept of official resellers makes sure a decent proportion of new product goes to the official outlet, and secondary smaller outlets get fewer and slightly slower delivery.
It makes no sense to have a store with 5,000 pre-orders receiving 10 cameras, while a store with 10 pre-orders gets 5 cameras.
*Numbers plucked out of thin air, but it illustrates my point.

I get the frustration but also disagree with this on principle. A competitive market is healthy for the end consumer. If, for once, small businesses with a personal touch and great service are getting a 'win', then I'm all for it. Otherwise we may as well just allow the Amazons/B&Hs/etc to dictate the market while we wait in line and watch local businesses suffer and disappear. Remember, none of these big retailers have an exclusivity deal for this camera, so allowing them to essentially have it through sheer purchasing power would be a much larger upset to consumers as a whole.

In still waiting too. But I’m not canceling my preorder. Don’t know why, but this time was not a repeat of my experience getting the URSA Mini 4.6K so very early. Lightning didn’t strike twice.

I’m staying with the order because the most important feature for me is having that Dual ISO assuming ISO 1600 and 3200 are good. I really could have used that on this week’s shoots as the director needed light levels to be low so suit the storytelling. I did a test with the Mini 4.6K and ISO 800 gave me a better looking image than ISO 1600, so I shot ISO 800 24 fps at 270 degree shutter angle at T2.8. My test colour with 360 degree shutter angle looked better and I should have stated with it! Live and learn.


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For what it is worth, I preordered with B&H on April 10th and the camera is on the FedEx truck now. I assume it is accompanied by an armed escort.

Just been in touch with CVP. Turns out they have a preoder list that's 600+ long and have recieved roughly 50 cameras so far. I was told I'd certainly be in the second half of that (ordered in July), so I've put my name down with 3DBroadcastsales as they told me their backorder list was only 21 people. Seems the smaller retailers might have the advantage with the smaller lists.

Denny Smith wrote:Well I did order from a small firm in the Pacifc Northwest, and they got one camera (so far) and are keeping it as a demo camera. That was a month ago, still no more additional cameras shipped to them, I had an order for one of their original cameras ordered right after it was announced, still no camera.
So I canceled (see my comments above).
Cheers

Yeah, I think it's the same shop that I pre-ordered my UM 4.6K PL from while I was walking out of the press conference, and I still haven't gotten word about that pre-order...

For all we know, that shop waited until it had some pre-orders in before placing its own orders, so it might be pretty far down in the queue, and we have no way of knowing.

Matt White wrote:For what it is worth, I preordered with B&H on April 10th and the camera is on the FedEx truck now. I assume it is accompanied by an armed escort.

Thanks for the update.

Thanks Rakesh, I did get my Ursa Broadcast from them, fairly quickly also.
Cheers

Denny Smith wrote:Thanks Rakesh, I did get my Ursa Broadcast from them, fairly quickly also.
Cheers

I think the demand for the Pocket 4K is a tiny bit higher than it was for the Ursa Broadcast

You think Yes, but when first announced with immediate shipping, the Broadcast camera was also in short supply, but not like the new Pocket camera is
Cheers

It seems that's pretty much normal with most things in the film world these days... the it took Tangent a month to work through the pre-order queue for the Wave 2, and Red is still chewing through the Hydrogen One preorder queue... I'm willing to bet that even though the Hydrogen is a phone, there are more preorders out for the Pocket 4K, partly because it's significantly less expensive, and F4V is hard to market when no one can view it without first purchasing a Hydrogen One.

I'm Ok with shipping being delayed. This is pretty normal for any new and incredible tech like BMPC4K is. But I'm not Ok with not having any information on when I can expect my camera being delivered. Not giving a fault to anyone, or giving a fault to everyone. Dealer that was payed for a camera says that they don't know when it will be delivered. Is he lying? We need some kind of response from BM, just to understand what is happening. I'm sure that mostly everyone will understand if there are some problems that have to be communicated and resolved officially.

Arrived on Friday, but it was bittersweet...



The only issue is the black hair-like thing in the area of the 422 button. What looks like moiré from the forum's image resize is causing what looks like a huge scuff across the screen. Its just that little black squiggly thing that never goes away. Here's the link direct: http://iqonline.net/mike/screen.jpg

I recall seeing another p4k with a very similar looking defect but I just can't seem to find it. My body cap also came with some kind of abrasion that doesn't rub off...



Not that I care about the scratched cap itself, I just hope I didn't get that other dude's defective p4k!

I have contacted BMD and waiting to hear back.


-M

Peter Odio wrote:Ordered on April 10th from Adorama.

It's been difficult to imposible to get a strait answer on my cue.

I understand the camera is in backorder, but I will like to know MY cue.

OK, all good, Adorama shipped my camera.

I ordered back in April from B&H. Just got it this weekend. Totally worth the wait IMHO. I own a bunch of BM cameras. Quirks and all, best bang for the buck on the market. We have been very happy with the BM cameras in general, but this promises to be quite a step up. Can't wait for BRaw. These guys are right out there on the bleeding edge. For the price? Such a deal! There are lots of vids on YouTube with some very thorough reviews. I will leave it to others to rate this camera as a "game changer". All I can say is that this is the camera I have been waiting for since the BMPCC. I love my UMP, but lugging it to Iceland this summer (carry on) was a pain in the neck. Life would have been so much easier and the images likely as good if I had the BMPCC4K in my bag instead!

I get frustrate and bored, If other camera like A7sIII or Lumix S1R come along I will get it. Right now Just frustrate with my pre-order. I saw a big ball room full of marketing about new camera on many country why do it at all since cannot even sell camera only pre-order with very long long wait I bet if you pre-order now you may get after Lumix S1R available.

Norman Lang, may I ask when in April you ordered from B&H? I ordered April 13, and haven't heard a thing.

Many people share your pain! You are not alone. We have a self-help group here on the official BMD forum that you have joined. We understand. We’ve gone through this before and we are here to help you fight through your pain as long as it takes. We do interventions if you wish, but nothing is imposed on you. When you feel like giving up, just call us, talk to us. None of us are perfect here. Some of us have even gone to other vendors and seemed to be lost to our community. But a year or two later, they’re back, and we rejoice. We don’t want you to have to go through that separation. You’re here because you share the same goals and have the same aspirations. It’s never easy. But you can do it. Amen.

As for being bored: How can you be bored with so much to learn while you wait. In my own testimonial, I started here in 2012 and didn’t reach Nirvana until 2016. It was as the right thing for me to do. When you find what is right for you (which presumably you have done with your preorder), you are almost home! There’s apple pie in the oven for you and it’ll be ready when you receive your order!


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Ordered mine from B&H on April 10th... it arrived via FedEx tomorrow! (i live in Ohio)

I looked it up Vistapro. It was April 10. Soon baby. You are on deck.


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Damn.. so so mad I cancelled my pre-order. I suspect I would have it by now had I not cancelled it. I originally ordered 10 minutes after announcement. I then cancelled due to wife getting on me about spending so much money... but then re-pre-ordered in mid September. If they are only getting to the Apr 10.. I suspect I have several more months of wait. Sucks.. I need the damn thing now.. got a lot of shootin to do! No paying gigs.. just want to record everything I can and get playing with it.

I am frustrated because I lost my financial "extra" to buy lens, gimbal, etc! I hope that the cheap EF/MFT fotodiox thing I bought works well enough to support my EF lenses.

So I am also seeing various good/bad reviews regarding the Vitrox adapter vs the metabones. Some say its as good, others say they see aberrations and such. Anyone use one with BM4K and feel its worthy of the lower price vs metabones? I have also seen them for over $200USD on Amazon/BHPhoto, but also see them for $115 on ebay. Same item. Cant tell if the one on ebay is a scam, says its new.. but why the 2x price difference from bhphoto?

Or do I suck it up, and wait to buy the metabones .71x?

Still cant figure out the lens... assuming the fotodiox works (though its not a booster) and/or I go metabones or vitrox... I suspect I should stick to EF lenses, and get a couple of those especially because I am certain I will be getting the booster sooner than later. With that in mind, still trying to figure out what 2 EF lenses I should get that offer 4K cinematic quality video capability. I know I want a wide prime.. for run-n-gun and such. I also would like a wide to mid zoom, preferrably one that doesnt change aperture during zoom. Right now my budget (well.. not now.. hopefully soon) is about $1K for a lens, so ideally I want a good wide angle prime to start off with that could be used for doing good cinematic quality video. A few of you have suggested a few lenses in the past, but still so many decisions. Tokina, Sigma, Canon, SLMagic.. what to get??

Thanks, guys. Here is the info I received from B&H on a chat just a minute ago:

Jose G: Ok, so i was informed by our buyers that by our next shipment we should fulfill all April orders, but there is no date for when that shipment will come. We will email you with any information

I really hope May - October was very little orders so I might have a shot at seeing my camera before end of year. Again, totally get the ramp up woes BM is going through..but cant help be angry that I may have to wait 5 months for a pre-order! Hopefully not.

Justin. I'm not convinced that I need a SpeedBooster for the Pocket 4K. I have one for the first pocket, but it was necessary because of low light limitations and severe crop factor. The new 4K is great in low light and my m43 Panasonic 12-35 2.8 IS does probably 90% of what I want. I put an EF adapter on it to try it out with a Rokinon Cine 35mm and the image was gorgeous. Can't wait to try it with my Xeen 50 Cine. Don't get me wrong, the SpeedBooster is a nice add to the camera. But I think you can make nice stuff without it, whereas it was crucial for the original pocket.

Also, my guess is that the spigot is about to open on shipments. It's been the same through every camera announcement. At first they are trickled out, eventually they flood the system. I am pretty sure they want to sell as many as they can. They will sell a lot.


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Wow. I was literally about to order from Kellards and then the website reverted what looks like their old website circa the early 00s. Madness. Perhaps they got overloaded.

Justin, I echo Norman’s thought. We can feel your urgency. It’s okay to slow down, take time to smell the roses. Shoot with what you have and later you may decide to add something more. There’s time for every purpose... Lord knows I have to take my own advice!


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After I read two people I this thread mention Safe Harbor, I went to their site and added two BMPCC4K's to my cart and almost checked out.

Why?

Because it seemed like the fastest way to get my hands on a BMPCC4K, since they have a bold message on their product page that reads:

NOW SHIPPING IN SMALL BATCHES

PLACE AN ORDER TODAY TO RESERVE ONE!

ETA 1-2 WEEKS

At the last second (before I submitted the order form with all of my info filled out), I thought, "You know what? This sounds too good to be true. "I'm just going to call them."

Boy, am I glad I did.

I called the phone number listed on the site and someone picked up relatively quick.

"Hi, I'm looking at your Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k on your website and it says 'Now shipping in small batches—ETA 1–2 weeks.' Is that true?"

He replies, "No. The website isn't accurate. We don't have any in stock and we don't know when we will."

"Oh, so am I understanding correctly that you actually have no ETA whatsoever right now?"

"We can't know. Between people canceling and not knowing when we'll receive a shipment, I can't provide you with any estimate."

Nice. Just thought I'd post my experience here before anyone almost does what I did and believes a message they see on a website and spends a few thousand bucks.

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a couple of pre-orders through B&H. If I'm going to wait, I'd rather go with a company I have more history with.

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:

Fornez wrote:For what it's worth just got an email from B&H that the camera is still out of stock and is on backorder status

I ordered mine on 9/11

I just got the same email. I ordered on 4/10.

A friend o a friend told me that Bh still has to fulfill about 1500 bmp4k orders. That was last Sunday and up to that date they were waiting for a shipment.

Ricardo Marty

Ordered one from B&H on April 16th and ordered a second one from Adorama in August. Was notified by Adorama that my order shipped today and will arrive tomorrow.

Rick/Norman, you guys are not wrong. Hitting my middle ages and I feel like time is not on my side sometimes you know! I wish I had these toys when I was in my 20s and could enjoy them more! Now I look like I am too old to be doing anything serious with this sort of stuff. Was thinking of doing some wedding video work on the side, and dang if it seems the majority of people in that area are youngins! Maybe I will just record pretty flowers and skylines!

Justin, well you’re pretty young compared to many on this site including yours truly. They say “age is just a number” which means it’s up to you what you do, not up to your age.

I’ve just completed another wedding (a 12 hour shoot) in September and this week I may have lined up another another coming soon. I have several theatrical performances already happening in December and into next year.

The busier you are the less time you have to be concerned about Father Time. It’s the dream that keeps us going. So don’t let anything get in the way of pursuing that dream. You’re gonna be fine!

Hitting my middle ages and I feel like time is not on my side

Ha! I'm 66 yo, and after slogging through 40 years doing photography and video for advertising and industrial clients, I sold my studio and bought a BMUMP 4.6K and started shooting narrative short films for fun. An indie feature that I co-produced and did sound on, just premiered at the LA Film Festival to a sold out house and good reviews. I am having the time of my life. It ain't over until 3 days after they bury you dude!

I ordered my PC and a Ronin S in August and I can't wait! It looks like the perfect B cam/steady cam addition to my UMP.