MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

Doesn't mean they should expect people to be silent on this forum about it.

AFAIK they informed vendors that the MFT mounts were ready to go, and that they were just waiting to fulfill MFT mount orders until they'd caught up with EF mount orders. They also said that they were hoping to have the MFT models shipping by NAB...

And that so far has been their last word. It's no wonder that their preorder customers are getting increasingly irate, especially with new cameras being announced...

Yeah, agreed. I like to think most of us have been pretty understanding until recently. There are, of course, a few who have been fed up to the point of threatening cancellation or poking fun at how the other models will never ship on time either, etc. But most of us are just kindly reminding BMD we would like some info on a camera we pre-ordered and want to have in our hands for work and play very much

I work at a motion picture rental house, so I'm used to delays with camera gear from all sorts of manufacturers and various levels of transparency in the shipping process. None of this is anything new. But this is a camera I paid for months ago, and I simply want to know a realistic ETA. It's human nature. I think I speak for most of us when I say that I'm not going to resort to name calling or low blows with BMD, but asking for shipping ETA's and product information updates is standard procedure any vendor should anticipate, so I'm not going to be made to feel like I'm out of line for asking for updates. If there's no info to be had since Christine isn't getting any new info from BMD headquarters, then I suppose that's what we all have to live with. But it's not going to stop us from asking again a week or two from now.

Yeah, agreed. I like to think most of us have been pretty understanding until recently. There are, of course, a few who have been fed up to the point of threatening cancellation or poking fun at how the other models will never ship on time either, etc. But most of us are just kindly reminding BMD we would like some info on a camera we pre-ordered and want to have in our hands for work and play very much

It's harder to be understanding when to all appearances they don't give a diddly.

This will end up being a good case study in how to annoy your customers. Hopefully they'll knock the next three major releases (Pocket, Production, Resolve 10) out of the park, or else they'll just turn into a stepping stone to people moving up to Reds instead of continuing to use their cameras. On the plus side, once you have one it will be easier to wait for another when they announce yet another update, but this approach public relations only works if you're the only one in the niche...

... which BMD is at the moment.

If there's no info to be had since Christine isn't getting any new info from BMD headquarters, then I suppose that's what we all have to live with. But it's not going to stop us from asking again a week or two from now.

+1

I liken this (as to how I feel about it) to when, as a youth, my folks kept having to chase me back upstairs on Christmas Eve . . .

If there's no info to be had since Christine isn't getting any new info from BMD headquarters, then I suppose that's what we all have to live with. But it's not going to stop us from asking again a week or two from now.

+1

I liken this (as to how I feel about it) to when, as a youth, my folks kept having to chase me back upstairs on Christmas Eve . . .

The difference there is that you have a pretty good idea about your timeline. Here we have none. We're also a captive audience, so we're really only putting up with this because there's no alternative available right now.

Agreed (was just talking about how "it felt" to me).

Then, adding in the "Ground Hog Day" factor, a "multiplier" effect, I see your point precisely.

Most other forums I participate in, I come to learn but here, not so much . . .
This disappointment is overwhelming (and also multiplied by the handful of jackasses that never contribute anything if value . . . except to prove how proficient they are at being negative).

I am not suggesting that you are one of these, only pointing out that the value of this forum is degraded by The behavior of a few . . . and that's a real shame.

Agreed (was just talking about how "it felt" to me).

So was I (apply pronouns correctly of course).

If the moderators really want to cut down on the number of shipping related posts on a Cinematography forum, then there needs to be a sticky thread about this at the top. I know it's not the most glamorous thing to have at the top of the forum, but it would at least ensure that most of the discussion falls in the same place. The other MFT shipping post from around NAB had a ton more discussion, and now it's been locked and will fade into obscurity, leading to more offshoots like this one. In the interest of keeping all the discussion in one place, I really think a dedicated "Shipping Discussion" thread should be started. Perhaps even two, one for EF and one for MFT.

It appears that the MFT model will start shipping in late September/October after the 4k production camera and Resolve 10 (starting end of July) and pocket camera (end of August in limited quantities). An active MFT mount for the 2.5k camera will be announced at NAB '14.

Where did that information come from?

Where did that information come from?

Most likely a guess, the 4k at least will have little to no impact on BMCC manufacture as the limit has always been sensor supply. The 4K's sensor comes from a separate supplier and therefore the is unlikely to affect things.

Well, just heard this interview with Blackmagic Design President Dan May from February where he says the MFT BMCC should ship in "two to three weeks" (fast-forward to about 22:40):

http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/dodd ... ic-update/

Given that that was said back in February...I dunno, I guess that's it. I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel that the MFT BMCC isn't coming for a long while...

To many conflicting bits of information
last official info from BM (around NAB) was that the MFT was undergoing beta testing (no idea why that would need to take so long and Bloom seemed to be cool about his test of it).

It all smells very fishy!

Well, just heard this interview with Blackmagic Design President Dan May from February where he says the MFT BMCC should ship in "two to three weeks" (fast-forward to about 22:40):

http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/dodd ... ic-update/

Given that that was said back in February...I dunno, I guess that's it. I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel that the MFT BMCC isn't coming for a long while...

Hahahahhahaha Yes two or three weeks

Wow!!
February!!
Considering they had not even sent the Beta test ones... mmmm
Can we trust blackmagic words?
Smells really fishy!!

It appears that the MFT model will start shipping in late September/October after the 4k production camera and Resolve 10 (starting end of July) and pocket camera (end of August in limited quantities). An active MFT mount for the 2.5k camera will be announced at NAB '14.

This comes from the NYC company I called on Friday that I pre-ordered 2 MFT Black Magic Cameras from in October.

It appears that the MFT model will start shipping in late September/October after the 4k production camera and Resolve 10 (starting end of July) and pocket camera (end of August in limited quantities). An active MFT mount for the 2.5k camera will be announced at NAB '14.

This comes from the NYC company I called on Friday that I pre-ordered 2 MFT Black Magic Cameras from in October.

I might believe that's what they told you, but since they're a dealer, chances are they have no more information about BMD's camera shipping plans than anyone else. In fact, sometimes dealers know less about this topic than non-dealers.

For that matter, as we've seen, even shipping estimates from BMD's top executives are often optimistic at best, and typically have been wildly inaccurate.

Doesn't mean folks aren't saying what they believe to be true at the time, but all our guesses (mine included) are worth about as much as the electrons they're printed on.

Carry on.

-

Doesn't mean folks aren't saying what they believe to be true at the time, but all our guesses (mine included) are worth about as much as the electrons they're printed on.

Not to be rude but the C100 was announced by Canon as shipping l8 November and I was able to buy one over the counter in early December. A company's shipping commitments don't have to be wasted bits...

Doesn't mean folks aren't saying what they believe to be true at the time, but all our guesses (mine included) are worth about as much as the electrons they're printed on.

Not to be rude but the C100 was announced by Canon as shipping l8 November and I was able to buy one over the counter in early December. A company's shipping commitments don't have to be wasted bits...

Very true.

Interesting example story, that. Canon had previously shipped at least one other model in that product line, and then they came out with the C100, too.

We don't know how long the C100 was in development before it was announced & shipped, but it goes w/o saying that the existence of its siblings probably made it easier & faster for Canon to develop, manufacture & ship the C100.

The same could happen with BMD's new cameras, because in many ways they're similar to the existing BMCC. Or not. I'm not holding my breath. We'll see.

-

Black Magic Design you have by far the most miscommunication of any company I've dealt with. No information is given. You simply repeat and repeat, "we'll get you information when we have it". Seriously, you're just saying shut up and wait.

I WOULD MUCH RATHER GET A SHIPPING ESTIMATE, EVEN IF THE ESTIMATE STATES A LATE ARRIVAL!!! At least I will know approx when the camera is shipping. It's far worse to just leave everyone hanging in the air. There is absolutely no way your company is not able to give an estimate.

You have great products, but you are BY FAR the least respectful company towards its customers. Have some pride.

I WOULD MUCH RATHER GET A SHIPPING ESTIMATE, EVEN IF THE ESTIMATE STATES A LATE ARRIVAL

Hear, hear!!!
You can´t make it any clearer than that,
and after 6 months + of waiting for some of us.

I WOULD MUCH RATHER GET A SHIPPING ESTIMATE, EVEN IF THE ESTIMATE STATES A LATE ARRIVAL

Hear, hear!!!
You can´t make it any clear than that,
and after 6 months + of waiting for some of us.

Corrected for you.

One guess is it's a software issue. They told us about the sensor issue because it was the sensor company that dropped the ball. A software issue would be BMD themselves dropping the ball, hence why we haven't heard anything.

Another guess could be legal trouble with the sensor company for dropping the ball.

Yet another guess is whichever company is making the sensor for the BMPCC will be making a sensor exclusively for the BMCC MFT as well since the company making the BMCC EF is still dropping the ball. Then maybe the new company needs to get up to speed on production of the BMCC MFT sensors and getting them to match as best as they can to the BMCC EF sensors.

Again these are just guesses.

One guess is it's a software issue. They told us about the sensor issue because it was the sensor company that dropped the ball. A software issue would be BMD themselves dropping the ball, hence why we haven't heard anything.

Another guess could be legal trouble with the sensor company for dropping the ball.

Yet another guess is whichever company is making the sensor for the BMPCC will be making a sensor exclusively for the BMCC MFT as well since the company making the BMCC EF is still dropping the ball. Then maybe the new company needs to get up to speed on production of the BMCC MFT sensors and getting them to match as best as they can to the BMCC EF sensors.

Again these are just guesses.

Almost certainly not a software issue, as for a dumb MFT mount there's no extra software over the EF version, just a few bits turned off.

The BMPCC sensor is made by the same company as the BMCC sensor (both versions) only the BMPC (the 4k one) is made by a different company. Changing the sensor on the MFT would change it from being a BMCC.

The most likely issue is that the EFs still haven't hit the inner shipping goal that leads to the MFT shipping. Thus there's no change thus under their (however misguided) update only when there's actually a change policy.

The most likely issue is that the EFs still haven't hit the inner shipping goal that leads to the MFT shipping. Thus there's no change thus under their (however misguided) update only when there's actually a change policy.

I think this is it really. Though you maybe able to get following day shipping in some outlets in the States, UK is a whole year behind, still struggling to get cameras to those who ordered back in June 2012!

Had the distribution worldwide been more even, say everyone who ordered up to December had received their EFs, then MFT BMCC would be shipping by now, me thinks.

Jules

I think this is it really. Though you maybe able to get following day shipping in some outlets in the States, UK is a whole year behind, still struggling to get cameras to those who ordered back in June 2012!

Had the distribution worldwide been more even, say everyone who ordered up to December had received their EFs, then MFT BMCC would be shipping by now, me thinks.

Jules

That's truly bizarre. I figured there would be some lag, because very few companies have truly even distribution worldwide, but the disparity is normally just a couple of weeks.

Im just getting bored of logging into here to check for nothing

Dear Christine is there a way to receive an update by email when its available ?

Im just getting bored of logging into here to check for nothing

Dear Christine is there a way to receive an update by email when its available ?

+1

Im just getting bored of logging into here to check for nothing

Dear Christine is there a way to receive an update by email when its available ?

+1

That's been in place for a while now...PM Christine and ask to be placed on her list. The trouble is that there hasn't been any upd8s since the mail list was cre8ed.

Fact: MFT exists and has/is being BETA tested.
So it should now be relatively easy for BMCC to give an approximate release date.
Not doing this is giving rise to a lot of speculation.
Probably down to slow sensor production and EF backlog (my opinion)

One could argue that it would now be fair to give us (who switched orders from the EF to the MFT a very long time ago) some kind of indication of when (and if) the MFT can be expected to ship.

Why? well if BM are (for some reason) planning to delay the release of the MFT, then I am sure many of us would like to opt for one of the other cameras.

Why? well if BM are (for some reason) planning to delay the release of the MFT, then I am sure many of us would like to opt for one of the other cameras.

That may well be true, but our current experience would suggest that merely changing camera model would not put us in a better position. We would just be waiting eternally for a different object. It might be worth pointing out to them that there are some countries where reputable dealers will not accept pre-orders without a 25% deposit, which is a substantial chunk of cash. We've made our commitment to them, now its about time they reciprocated. Personally I think we're beyond addressing these matters to the Community Relations Manager, only to get a "there's no information to share at this time" answer. There is information, or lets put it this way, if there isn't you'd better let any third party investors know as your company is in VERY serious trouble with the taxman if it can't account for assets, liabilities, shipping and sales turnover.

Sometimes I wonder if they don't actually understand their customer base for these products. They're attempting to attract customers working on low to moderate budget planned productions with defined shooting schedules and heavy IQ/workflow requirements yet behaving as though they're producing handycams for soccer-moms who think it might be nice to grab some shots of the kids playing. These are not the same markets, the latter don't care much if its late, they'll just go without or buy something else. The former market involves people who may have made project commitments based on the previous delivery statements by BMD and suffer additional cost and inconvenience having to get rental cover for a product they ordered in plenty of time. Its not really very good is it.

So:
1. What is the status with the backlog of EF mount pre-orders?
2. When is MFT mount volume shipping scheduled to begin?
3. Is there a regional shipping priority? if so what is it?
4. Based on existing data and normalised order projections, when is the production shortfall likely to move to surplus?
5. Have the original BMCC products been de-prioritized in favor of the recent NAB announcements? If so what mitigation is in place to prevent loss of turnover through BMCC pre-order losses? Or are you simply assuming customers will wait indefinitely?

All of those are questions that any sensible investor would ask (and a whole lot more). If, as you say, you cant answer them, your current investors might want a word. Even Sony provide this information in public statements and no-one would accuse them of being overly-communicative.

So:
1. What is the status with the backlog of EF mount pre-orders?

Not at the point that will allow MFT shipment.

2. When is MFT mount volume shipping scheduled to begin?

When the EF backlog reaches the defined point (schedualing often taes this form when x is finished, y can begin)

3. Is there a regional shipping priority? if so what is it?

They've explained shipping priority, it's all based on the timing and size of orders theyget in from the distributers nothing else.

4. Based on existing data and normalised order projections, when is the production shortfall likely to move to surplus?

Given they've missed this several time an answer to this question is of dubious value.

5. Have the original BMCC products been de-prioritized in favor of the recent NAB announcements? If so what mitigation is in place to prevent loss of turnover through BMCC pre-order losses? Or are you simply assuming customers will wait indefinitely?

THe BMCC production has never been limited by BMDs production capacity, more the supply of sensors, this makes it unlikely that the 4k at least will affect BMCC production, the pocket might as its using a sensor from the same manufacturer as the BMCC.

All of those are questions that any sensible investor would ask (and a whole lot more). If, as you say, you cant answer them, your current investors might want a word. Even Sony provide this information in public statements and no-one would accuse them of being overly-communicative.

BMD have not seen a penny of preorder money for the MFT BMCC, all of that is with the retailer as the MFT isnt shipping, you cannot be an investor from their point of view unless you have paid them....

BMD have not seen a penny of preorder money for the MFT BMCC, all of that is with the retailer as the MFT isnt shipping, you cannot be an investor from their point of view unless you have paid them....

They did not get the cash.. that does not matter at all
until 19 century economy was based on gold value and goods
Then it changed to be based on dollar bills wich did not have to respect it´s equivalent value in gold
Nowdays the world is ruled by a virtual economy.
Thousands of preorder is a more powerful economic value than cash.. in fact real cash is a problem for big economy guys.. that´s why not having your cash is way better and keeps them away from legal issues in many countries.
Thounsands of preorders opens any door they want.
Thounsands of preorders give you access to more economic power than you can imagine.
Not having your cash does not mean they are not making a huge profit out of us.
Probably making the same.. but being safer with their unethic behaviour... so finally it is even more profit, but more perverse.

It'll get really interesting if you would offer really really wide primes..like a 5mm to 8mm rectiliniear kind of range. Its what's missing from the current coices that we have.. anything longer and there are a thousand choices already. 18-35 would most likely be ruled by the Sigma Zoom, so your left with 50-up lenses in which case a LOOOt already exists.

@Pete Proniewicz-Brooks


Ok, perhaps I should clarify a few points. I didn't say "I" was an investor or even imply that. I said "any third party investors" and "any sensible investor". However this doesn't change the fact that £480 of my cash is being held in escrow on their behalf by a dealer with whom they have an agreement of supply. BMD make the product "offer" through an "authorized" sales network.

With respect to your answers:

1. That would just tell me when it isn't, I would want to know when it IS.

2. If I went to my customers with an answer like "we'll do x when we've finished y" I'd be out of business. Generally, investors and customers alike only deal with, for example "X is projected for completion 9th May 2013, Y commences 11th May 2013 with projected completion 25th May 2013. Y may be affected by factors A,B and C for which we provide mitigation D which would result in 3 days slippage". Any deviation would result in the issue of revised projections. In corporate-speak "dont know"="unmanaged" or "insufficiently planned".

3. So by implication small volume orders would never be satisfied if perpetually large volume orders came in from a small group of retailers?

4. "we've never answered this correctly so dont ask again", sorry not even their own staff should buy that.

5. You dont, or at least shouldn't, select an existing component supplier for a second product unless they can demonstrate sufficient capacity to produce the second without compromising the first. Its called shooting yourself in the foot. Additionally sole sourcing introduces unnecessary risk which requires mitigation planning, usually involving overproduction and storage which introduces unnecessary risk in itself if you cant shift the product. JIT second sourcing is much better, it has a higher setup cost but lower long term real world costs and higher predictability.

In business neither investors nor customers like "maybe someday". Accurate customer communication is absolutely essential. If there's a IP or corporate security case for retaining information thats fine but the level of information sought by those on this thread shouldn't get anywhere near that.

So:
1. What is the status with the backlog of EF mount pre-orders?
2. When is MFT mount volume shipping scheduled to begin?
3. Is there a regional shipping priority? if so what is it?
4. Based on existing data and normalised order projections, when is the production shortfall likely to move to surplus?
5. Have the original BMCC products been de-prioritized in favor of the recent NAB announcements? If so what mitigation is in place to prevent loss of turnover through BMCC pre-order losses? Or are you simply assuming customers will wait indefinitely?

As an MFT guy, I feel ya'lls pain, but I think given the current circumstances and given the track record of shipping from BMD, the best thing to do would be to move on, and when finances return and the model you desire becomes available off the shelf, then you can get into.

IMO, it's just not worth the stress. Work with EF mount now, or wait.

That may well be true, but our current experience would suggest that merely changing camera model would not put us in a better position.

Also true: Many vendors DO NOT require deposits and as we know many people have "pre-orders" at multiple locations you're never going to know anything until you get a pre-ship notice from your (or in some cases, "one of your" vendors . . .

If BM announced today that they were shipping a thousand units this week I still would have no idea when I might expect mine to arrive. Of course there'd be any number of folks that'd be happy to hazard a guess for me . . .

I'm looking forward to the MFT which, who knows, may come packaged with any number of improvements by the time it does ship? I'm not going to worry about it . . . There are enough people here willing to shoulder that responsibility for me/us. I'm not going to threaten, crab about it, etc., but I am going to leave it with you . . . Go do what I do with equipment I have (or rent what I don't) because, for me some of the crazy talk here in the past year+ has been more of a bummer than the disappointments actually associated with the camera not shipping. I'm outta here until this stuff begins shipping and there's more to talk about.

Stay thirsty my friends!

Hello?

I have not ordered a MTF but EF ... hoping what will be delivered before
To this day I still have no news of the delivery of my EF since 2012
BMCC gives no information has my supplier here in Belgium
I think it's not correct.
I wish good luck to those who are ordering the MTF.

I've lost my excitement for this camera. Shame, but it's no ones fault other than BMD.

I've no respect for your customer service or your lack of transparency with your customers.

I've lost my excitement for this camera. Shame, but it's no ones fault other than BMD.

I've no respect for your customer service or your lack of transparency with your customers.

Same here, and they are still ignoring it

Seems strange that BM do not realize what they are missing out on in customer relations by ignoring the MFT´s. Maybe they are blinded by the new cameras, thinking that now everyone is happy, and have forgotten about those few hundred/thousand people who have been sticking with them since (dare i say it?) 2012 waiting for a camera once promised.

Blackmagic Design probably figures "Who cares if people are mad or frustrated, we are building the best products for the money, so they'll buy anyway". This maybe true, but product loyalty is a big thing. Some company WILL come up with a competing product at a competing price at some point. When that happens many people will jump ship especially if that other company treats their customers better. Just saying.

Blackmagic Design probably figures "Who cares if people are mad or frustrated, we are building the best products for the money, so they'll buy anyway". This maybe true, but product loyalty is a big thing. Some company WILL come up with a competing product at a competing price at some point. When that happens many people will jump ship especially if that other company treats their customers better. Just saying.

A lot of people will jump ship as soon as they scrape together enough money to do so. The company itself is generally not well liked, because as I'm discovering, this is par for the course as far as customer treatment goes for BMD.

BMD have not seen a penny of preorder money for the MFT BMCC, all of that is with the retailer as the MFT isnt shipping, you cannot be an investor from their point of view unless you have paid them....

They did not get the cash.. that does not matter at all
until 19 century economy was based on gold value and goods
Then it changed to be based on dollar bills wich did not have to respect it´s equivalent value in gold
Nowdays the world is ruled by a virtual economy.
Thousands of preorder is a more powerful economic value than cash.. in fact real cash is a problem for big economy guys.. that´s why not having your cash is way better and keeps them away from legal issues in many countries.
Thounsands of preorders opens any door they want.
Thounsands of preorders give you access to more economic power than you can imagine.
Not having your cash does not mean they are not making a huge profit out of us.
Probably making the same.. but being safer with their unethic behaviour... so finally it is even more profit, but more perverse.

Hear, hear.
In English banknotes we have "We promise to pay the bearer" with the Chief Cashier's signiture, it tries to convince us all to put faith in maintaining the value of the currency. In USA they have a more religious tone "In God We Trust". It is a virtual economy and appropriately put. A reseller of BMD cameras is basically front ending the company and investing in the company's interests.
The phrase "BMD have not seen a penny of preorder money" has been bandied about too often and taken as gospel by some which is a sad way of defending poor business practice.

I've known people who work and paid by a company while awarding contracts to another company were he is an unpaid director. By being unpaid he removed himself from any legal prosecution. Just because someone is not in any official payroll of a company does not exclude the fact that he is part of it.

I've lost my excitement for this camera. Shame, but it's no ones fault other than BMD.

I've no respect for your customer service or your lack of transparency with your customers.

Becareful, they might issue you with a warning. I got mine for far less. Maybe the mood has changed and criticsm more tolerant these days but I could be wrong.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5736/hmmmwd.jpg

At NAB13 I Guess, and the posting date marked in red, so?

I've lost my excitement for this camera. Shame, but it's no ones fault other than BMD.

I've no respect for your customer service or your lack of transparency with your customers.

Becareful, they might issue you with a warning. I got mine for far less. Maybe the mood has changed and criticsm more tolerant these days but I could be wrong.

No, Taikonaut, you got warnings for doing far more.

Slander, among other things.

Cheers.

28 th of march / "just around the corner"

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/03/micro-4-3-mount-blackmagic-cinema-camera-may-be-coming-soon/