Update on Camera Shipments

I mean, don't make me laugh...RAW is RAW and that's the main reason why we're here waiting for this camera, biting our fingernails!

10 bit 4:2:2 ProResHQ for less than $3K appeals to more people than you might realize.

Once again, I agree with Marc.

More than anything else, the BMCC's relatively low price and compressed video features (ProRes & DNxHD) all but guarantee it'll sell far more to folks who typically buy similarly-priced, "traditional" camcorders, and to a lesser extent to the "cinema" crowd.

Both types of users will buy it, but there are a heck of a lot more people interested in a $3K PreRes/DNxHD cam than there are those who want a $3K RAW uncompressed cam.

... assuming BMD starts shipping the thing "soon", especially before Sony, Canon, Panasonic (et al) come out with something specifically designed to steal customers away from the BMCC. None of the currently announced cams are designed to do that yet -- to do so, by definition, they must have been designed after the BMCC was announced (unless they have really good spies).

I mean, don't make me laugh...RAW is RAW and that's the main reason why we're here waiting for this camera, biting our fingernails!

10 bit 4:2:2 ProResHQ for less than $3K appeals to more people than you might realize.

Which camera are you talking about? Did the fs100 price drop down to $3k?

Which camera are you talking about? Did the fs100 price drop down to $3k?

Sorry, I thought I got your joke, but on second reading: What are you talking about?

I mean, don't make me laugh...RAW is RAW and that's the main reason why we're here waiting for this camera, biting our fingernails!

10 bit 4:2:2 ProResHQ for less than $3K appeals to more people than you might realize.

Which camera are you talking about? Did the fs100 price drop down to $3k?

Did anyone ever discover the fs100 was actually 10 bit HDMI output? 8 bit internal, isn't it?

Did anyone ever discover the fs100 was actually 10 bit HDMI output? 8 bit internal, isn't it?

FS100: Definitely 8-bit, inside & out.

Sony wised-up after the EX1.

ahahahahahahaha

Did I miss the joke?

Did I miss the joke?

I'm not sure there was a joke, but boukmanmutt's keyboard appears to be acting strange.

It's almost hilarious how little Blackmagic seem to care about their customers... Almost.

It's almost hilarious how little Blackmagic seem to care about their customers... Almost.

It varies. Sometimes BMD cares a lot, and for that I'm grateful:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=896&p=7425&sid=7904d98ea197d9bb69369c3e4c66ad87#p7422

But to use a baseball analogy, BMD doesn't always bat 1000. (None of us do.) Cheers.

and Hitler was a vegetarian

So now you're saying BMD is as bad as a ... vegetarian?

Hi, good to know the problem was found before shipping. Otherwise, it would have caused a lot of problem for everyone. Eagerly waiting to put the hands on this little wonder....
Arul Moorthy
Digital Magic - Chennai - India

Hi, good to know the problem was found before shipping. Otherwise, it would have caused a lot of problem for everyone. Eagerly waiting to put the hands on this little wonder....
Arul Moorthy
Digital Magic - Chennai - India

Actually it was found when shipping was supposed to start, hence the month and a half delay.

Hi, good to know the problem was found before shipping. Otherwise, it would have caused a lot of problem for everyone. Eagerly waiting to put the hands on this little wonder....
Arul Moorthy
Digital Magic - Chennai - India

Actually it was found when shipping was supposed to start, hence the month and a half delay.

He means before consumers received the cameras, but you make a good point!

Sure "cinema" camera is just a name to sell more, but STILL we cannot say that having a RAW recording camera is the same than having a h264 or a mp4 recording camera, if we say so we are just fooling each other. The potential of the BMCC is way above sony fs100. Sure to have the best camera of the world does not mean you can shoot a movie with it, just like having a crappy 200$ camera doesn't mean you won't be able to shoot an interesting project.

I mean, don't make me laugh...RAW is RAW and that's the main reason why we're here waiting for this camera, biting our fingernails!

First things first... AVCHD is actually a very efficient compression format!

Secondly for around 600 you can get a new Atomos Ninja for use with the FS100 (it's what I use) and you'll get ProRes HQ.

ThIrdly. FS100 is a reality. BMCC seems to be an illusion at the moment.

Just thought I'd add that I am not anti BMCC. I love it and I cannot wait for it. I think it is an engineering marvel, but... people have other choices. The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need a rig, a tripod, externel battery solution, high capacity SSD hard drives (at least 2x480 for RAW), An external monitor, Thunderbolt adapters and drives, a PC or MAC with thunderbolt connectivity... the list goes on!

So why am I still going for the BMCC? Well luckily I have most of the above already. I need to add a rig for the BMCC (have a Shoot35 for our FS100) and a few more SSD drives, but that's all.

Sure "cinema" camera is just a name to sell more, but STILL we cannot say that having a RAW recording camera is the same than having a h264 or a mp4 recording camera, if we say so we are just fooling each other. The potential of the BMCC is way above sony fs100. Sure to have the best camera of the world does not mean you can shoot a movie with it, just like having a crappy 200$ camera doesn't mean you won't be able to shoot an interesting project.

I mean, don't make me laugh...RAW is RAW and that's the main reason why we're here waiting for this camera, biting our fingernails!

First things first... AVCHD is actually a very efficient compression format!

Secondly for around 600 you can get a new Atomos Ninja for use with the FS100 (it's what I use) and you'll get ProRes HQ.

ThIrdly. FS100 is a reality. BMCC seems to be an illusion at the moment.

Just thought I'd add that I am not anti BMCC. I love it and I cannot wait for it. I think it is an engineering marvel, but... people have other choices. The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need a rig, a tripod, externel battery solution, high capacity SSD hard drives (at least 2x480 for RAW), An external monitor, Thunderbolt adapters and drives, a PC or MAC with thunderbolt connectivity... the list goes on!

So why am I still going for the BMCC? Well luckily I have most of the above already. I need to add a rig for the BMCC (have a Shoot35 for our FS100) and a few more SSD drives, but that's all.

YEA!!

COSTA, I need a partner in my business, hehehehe
The BMCC may or may not be, not what we know, what we do know is that it sucks its people, that if they have already shown in this forum, a month without any response and we know that we read.
Bye friends, see you on the forum SONY FS 100

A lot of people are talking about the Canon C100 plus Ninja as an alternative. I think they would make a great combo, share same lenses and use the C100 for lowest light and run and gun, and then use it as a B for BMCC work.

Since this topic went off kilter Ill add my own theories...
Nov 3rd has been slated for... rhymes with Harlot.
I wonder if that will affect the future of the lower Ks

Since this topic went off kilter Ill add my own theories...
Nov 3rd has been slated for... rhymes with Harlot.
I wonder if that will affect the future of the lower Ks

Well there isn't much room for ON topic here as we're getting know information or updates. Back on topic... It's amazing that it takes BMD suppliers 2 weeks to get glass stock, but only a day for BMD to make the camera in bulk and ship. Smells fishy:)

See I find it to be ON topic and NOT start putting BMD down... it's hard! I don't want to be THAT person:)

I wonder if teams of lawyers aren't sorting out financial responsibility for a "volume" of bad glass. Of course, nobody could talk about lawyers...

Sure "cinema" camera is just a name to sell more, but STILL we cannot say that having a RAW recording camera is the same than having a h264 or a mp4 recording camera, if we say so we are just fooling each other. The potential of the BMCC is way above sony fs100. Sure to have the best camera of the world does not mean you can shoot a movie with it, just like having a crappy 200$ camera doesn't mean you won't be able to shoot an interesting project.

I mean, don't make me laugh...RAW is RAW and that's the main reason why we're here waiting for this camera, biting our fingernails!

First things first... AVCHD is actually a very efficient compression format!

Secondly for around 600 you can get a new Atomos Ninja for use with the FS100 (it's what I use) and you'll get ProRes HQ.

ThIrdly. FS100 is a reality. BMCC seems to be an illusion at the moment.

Just thought I'd add that I am not anti BMCC. I love it and I cannot wait for it. I think it is an engineering marvel, but... people have other choices. The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need a rig, a tripod, externel battery solution, high capacity SSD hard drives (at least 2x480 for RAW), An external monitor, Thunderbolt adapters and drives, a PC or MAC with thunderbolt connectivity... the list goes on!

So why am I still going for the BMCC? Well luckily I have most of the above already. I need to add a rig for the BMCC (have a Shoot35 for our FS100) and a few more SSD drives, but that's all.

I thought the FS100 even with an external recording device won't deliver 4:2:2:2 video.

First things first... AVCHD is actually a very efficient compression format!

Secondly for around 600 you can get a new Atomos Ninja for use with the FS100 (it's what I use) and you'll get ProRes HQ.

ThIrdly. FS100 is a reality. BMCC seems to be an illusion at the moment.

Just thought I'd add that I am not anti BMCC. I love it and I cannot wait for it. I think it is an engineering marvel, but... people have other choices. The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need a rig, a tripod, externel battery solution, high capacity SSD hard drives (at least 2x480 for RAW), An external monitor, Thunderbolt adapters and drives, a PC or MAC with thunderbolt connectivity... the list goes on!

So why am I still going for the BMCC? Well luckily I have most of the above already. I need to add a rig for the BMCC (have a Shoot35 for our FS100) and a few more SSD drives, but that's all.

Good morning everyone!

Costa my man, I'm a little surprised to continue to see you here. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your posts, but I thought you had convinced yourself to hop off the BMCC train? Or maybe I misunderstood? In any event, welcome ... back?

As for AVCHD: Yes, as a container it can carry pretty good-looking imagery if a camera actually allows it to (and AVCHD v.2.0 is more of the same -- in a good way).

However, except for the generally nice FS100 (and maybe 1 or 2 others?), most cams that feature AVCHD are cr*p or semi-cr*p, including the GH2, which nonetheless I own, love and have hacked. To paraphrase Firesign Theater, "... but it's really good cr*p!"

But the FS100 is strictly an 8-bit cam -- though a very nice 8-bit cam, and one which records internally at a stupid-low data rate, too, although I give it props for dithering its 8-bit relatively nicely so it doesn't look like total cr*p most of the time, except maybe not so much on highlights.

This is me liking a camera. You should hear what I sound like when I don't like one.

And yes, you can connect a FS100 to a Ninja or various other external recorders and get the very real benefit of fewer motion-induced compression artifacts because of the vastly higher data rates. But, there is no benefit in terms of color quality, because it's still only 8-bits total of color data in a 10-bit recording.

And yes, the FS100 is a reality and the BMCC is not. Absolutely true. Of course, a big part of the reality of the FS100 is that reputable authorized Sony dealers sell the FS100 for far more than the price of the BMCC.

A good argument can be made that the FS100 includes features that easily justify its extra cost, such as 1080p60/50, an S35/APS-C sized sensor, powered-XLRs, VU meters, etc. On the other hand, the BMCC has quite a few nice features that the FS100 lacks (plus an awesome software bundle), so an argument could be made that maybe they're about equal hardware-wise, but the FS100 costs considerably more and doesn't include awesome software. So there's that.

As for your comment, "The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need ...", blah, blah, blah. As an ex-New Jersey guy, I say: Hogwash. But when I say hogwash, I mean it in the nicest possible way ...
http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/ ... tions-not/

BTW, the still you posted earlier that you shot with the FS100: Very nice. As I said, it's what properly-dithered 8-bit video should look like if shot correctly. But it's still cr*p.

Have a great day, everyone!

(I'm off to do a shoot today with a FS100 & PMW350 again ... but wishing it was BMCC ...)

i bet one will get raw point more if one will also grade that material in the end of the day.

i agree that c*p thing in that sense. this is why waiting is must for me.

no more compression and low dr!

First things first... AVCHD is actually a very efficient compression format!

Secondly for around 600 you can get a new Atomos Ninja for use with the FS100 (it's what I use) and you'll get ProRes HQ.

ThIrdly. FS100 is a reality. BMCC seems to be an illusion at the moment.

Just thought I'd add that I am not anti BMCC. I love it and I cannot wait for it. I think it is an engineering marvel, but... people have other choices. The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need a rig, a tripod, externel battery solution, high capacity SSD hard drives (at least 2x480 for RAW), An external monitor, Thunderbolt adapters and drives, a PC or MAC with thunderbolt connectivity... the list goes on!

So why am I still going for the BMCC? Well luckily I have most of the above already. I need to add a rig for the BMCC (have a Shoot35 for our FS100) and a few more SSD drives, but that's all.

Good morning everyone!

Costa my man, I'm a little surprised to continue to see you here. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your posts, but I thought you had convinced yourself to hop off the BMCC train? Or maybe I misunderstood? In any event, welcome ... back?

As for AVCHD: Yes, as a container it can carry pretty good-looking imagery if a camera actually allows it to (and AVCHD v.2.0 is more of the same -- in a good way).

However, except for the generally nice FS100 (and maybe 1 or 2 others?), most cams that feature AVCHD are cr*p or semi-cr*p, including the GH2, which nonetheless I own, love and have hacked. To paraphrase Firesign Theater, "... but it's really good cr*p!"

But the FS100 is strictly an 8-bit cam -- though a very nice 8-bit cam, and one which records internally at a stupid-low data rate, too, although I give it props for dithering its 8-bit relatively nicely so it doesn't look like total cr*p most of the time, except maybe not so much on highlights.

This is me liking a camera. You should hear what I sound like when I don't like one.

And yes, you can connect a FS100 to a Ninja or various other external recorders and get the very real benefit of fewer motion-induced compression artifacts because of the vastly higher data rates. But, there is no benefit in terms of color quality, because it's still only 8-bits total of color data in a 10-bit recording.

And yes, the FS100 is a reality and the BMCC is not. Absolutely true. Of course, a big part of the reality of the FS100 is that reputable authorized Sony dealers sell the FS100 for far more than the price of the BMCC.

A good argument can be made that the FS100 includes features that easily justify its extra cost, such as 1080p60/50, an S35/APS-C sized sensor, powered-XLRs, VU meters, etc. On the other hand, the BMCC has quite a few nice features that the FS100 lacks (plus an awesome software bundle), so an argument could be made that maybe they're about equal hardware-wise, but the FS100 costs considerably more and doesn't include awesome software. So there's that.

As for your comment, "The BMCC ADDS UP FAST. You'll need ...", blah, blah, blah. As an ex-New Jersey guy, I say: Hogwash. But when I say hogwash, I mean it in the nicest possible way ...
http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/ ... tions-not/

BTW, the still you posted earlier that you shot with the FS100: Very nice. As I said, it's what properly-dithered 8-bit video should look like if shot correctly. But it's still cr*p.

Have a great day, everyone!

(I'm off to do a shoot today with a FS100 & PMW350 again ... but wishing it was BMCC ...)

Unfortunately the BMCC does add up fast and this is a known argument AGAINST the BMC. Please don't misunderstand me. I like the BMCC. I STILL plan to get one, but to be so pro BMD is not in your best interests or anybody else's. Every camera and company has a long pro's and con's list and BMD is no different.

That still is graded from a ProRes HQ file from someone (me) that cannot grade or DoP to save his own life! I am a corporate director and to get THAT image quality on a camera, for me at least, would have been unheard of before the release of the FS100. Like I said, for a corporate that is beyond what I needed to create, but from a camera that is known to be hard to wield (FS100) I don't think it's half bad for the price.

Is there ANY word for ANY shipping dates so far? I've been itching to shoot with this thing since I pre-ordered last April.

I may have to seek therapy.

Sorry umpwood, this is not the Shipping thread anymore

Unfortunately not yet.... but they really need to have somebody get on here and at least let us know where they're at. At this point they're starting to lose customers. I'm still hanging in there, but I've been seeing a lot of talk of jumping ship to other cameras.

Sorry...my bad.

Unfortunately not yet.... but they really need to have somebody get on here and at least let us know where they're at. At this point they're starting to lose customers. I'm still hanging in there, but I've been seeing a lot of talk of jumping ship to other cameras.

Some have walked away already.
Sad but true.

I spoke with BnH today, and it did not seem like the salesman was very confident in the shipping status of the camera, saying the camera has regressed back to a beta status. The conversation made me hold off on ordering the camera, as he didn't believe any cameras would ship from BnH including preoders for quite awhile, and that was after I told him that I was interested in the m4/3 version.

I was leaning towards purchasing three BMCC but delay has me worried and I just pulled the trigger on a c300 and will prob just get 1 BMCC now instead of three .....not my fault but delivery status info is very important for some on here.......just saying

I have to agree with some on here. It's not that I think no other camera is good anymore, it's just getting harder to wait knowing that such an amazing camera is (or might be) just around the corner, but not knowing exactly when it's coming.

Update us please. It's becoming annoying.

I think the process is:

(1) supplier of glass makes good glass -> supplier of sensor to make sensors again -> BlackMagic receives new sensors and does further testing.

(2). Tests passed, yippee !! If not b*ll*cks, repeat (1).

(3). Ramp up production and get cameras out. Ship from Australia to rest of the world ( further 1-2 weeks?)

The announcement from Grant Petty was made 2 weeks ago.

So total time to wait is
(1) + (2) + (3) - [2 weeks] = ????


I fear ???? could be large, maybe closer to two months. Dare I say, not receiving an announcement yet from Blackmagic is expected, so don't get frustrated too much with them just yet.

Jules

Mark my words, Q1 2013 is the optimistic release date.

Update us please. It's becoming annoying.

+1 Please, something...anything...to let us know that things are progressing. More if you can but at least a "we are on it, hang in there".

I think the process is:

(1) supplier of glass makes good glass -> supplier of sensor to make sensors again -> BlackMagic receives new sensors and does further testing.

(2). Tests passed, yippee !! If not b*ll*cks, repeat (1).

(3). Ramp up production and get cameras out. Ship from Australia to rest of the world ( further 1-2 weeks?)

The announcement from Grant Petty was made 2 weeks ago.

So total time to wait is
(1) + (2) + (3) - [2 weeks] = ????


I fear ???? could be large, maybe closer to two months. Dare I say, not receiving an announcement yet from Blackmagic is expected, so don't get frustrated too much with them just yet.

Jules

No offense but I would like this kind of information from BMD. That's where the frustration lies. Not with lack of release date knowledge but lack of ANY knowledge/communication AT ALL.

BMD update us. It's the least you can do, no?

Spoke with another reseller, and I was told to not expect anything until late spring 2013. They said they couldn't get a shipping commitment out of Blackmagic if they paid them for it

+ another 1

Look at how many views this thread has! There are a lot of worried people out there.

/sells pre-order and SSDs and buys a Scarlet.

/sells pre-order and SSDs and buys a Scarlet.

Did you do it Nick?

My dealer just told me that they can't keep a deposit past the New Year, so we'll have to do something by then. I told him Thanksgiving was when I would want to make a decision. We both agreed that the lack of any news at all since the 9/24 update was not reflecting well on BMD. His confidence is shaken as is mine.

My dealer just told me that they can't keep a deposit past the New Year, so we'll have to do something by then. I told him Thanksgiving was when I would want to make a decision. We both agreed that the lack of any news at all since the 9/24 update was not reflecting well on BMD. His confidence is shaken as is mine.

If you do not mind me asking, what dealer did you order yours through?

If you do not mind me asking, what dealer did you order yours through?

It's not that I mind you asking and I'm sure there is a paper trail that reveals my dealer but I'd really rather not place them in a difficult position. They were very kind in agreeing to transfer my prepayment in full to another camera purchase in November. I told them Thanksgiving and they were agreeable to that.

/sells pre-order and SSDs and buys a Scarlet.

Did you do it Nick?

My dealer just told me that they can't keep a deposit past the New Year, so we'll have to do something by then. I told him Thanksgiving was when I would want to make a decision. We both agreed that the lack of any news at all since the 9/24 update was not reflecting well on BMD. His confidence is shaken as is mine.

Nah, not yet. It's not a very wise decision in my personal financial situation. The money I'd have left after my BMCC kittage would go a LONG way in other areas. I'm still a portrait photographer at heart and there's many things which I suspect I will want to be able to afford (such as a studio strobe and such) in the future.

And I also don't know if I like the colour properties of the RED MX sensors. The brightest stops are kinda hot and apparently red is not handled very well. The Alexa and BMCC rendering is top notch.

I know in the long run that the BMCC is the best option for me.

/sells pre-order and SSDs and buys a Scarlet.

Did you do it Nick?

My dealer just told me that they can't keep a deposit past the New Year, so we'll have to do something by then. I told him Thanksgiving was when I would want to make a decision. We both agreed that the lack of any news at all since the 9/24 update was not reflecting well on BMD. His confidence is shaken as is mine.

It's been 2 weeks since the last update...Two. That's hardly long enough to start rambling about lack of news. Canon, Nikon and Sony have all had product launch issues in the past and they are magnitudes larger companies than BMD. There was far less communication from them when they had delays than we've received from BMD. Nor did the president of the company come on any newsgroups to personally address the delay/issue. I've been through this 3 times with Canon and once with Sony.

Let's not forget the looooonnnnnggggg delays from RED. Not to mention feature changes/deletions after the camera was "announced" etc. RED has had their own issues with releasing new cameras. So why would you "trust" them anymore than BMD? Why would you have any more "faith" in them?

As for dealers receiving information...most of the large chains I know don't have "any" direct communication with many of the manufacturers of the products they sell. So I don't see what the big deal is.

Frankly, I think BMD has been quite forthcoming with their information in the face of these delays. We know what the problem is, we know they are fixing it and we know they will update us when they have an update. They've said so. Show me any other company that's done more.

Obviously, many people doing all the bitching aren't actually doing any actual work, cause they're on here everyday, all day...bitching.

Talk about first world problems.

If you do not mind me asking, what dealer did you order yours through?

It's not that I mind you asking and I'm sure there is a paper trail that reveals my dealer but I'd really rather not place them in a difficult position. They were very kind in agreeing to transfer my prepayment in full to another camera purchase in November. I told them Thanksgiving and they were agreeable to that.

I hear ya, I can respect that. No worries, I have now contacted every dealer in my area besides Omega, and so far none of them seem to think Cameras will ship until spring 2013. One of the dealers, actually laughed when I asked about expected times. I may give Omega a call to see what they know if anything.

I have now contacted every dealer in my area besides Omega, and so far none of them seem to think Cameras will ship until spring 2013. One of the dealers, actually laughed when I asked about expected times.

I preordered in late April and prepaid in full in late July. If I were ordering from scratch today, I wouldn't expect anything until 2013...Spring sounds reasonable.

I have now contacted every dealer in my area besides Omega, and so far none of them seem to think Cameras will ship until spring 2013. One of the dealers, actually laughed when I asked about expected times.

I preordered in late April and prepaid in full in late July. If I were ordering from scratch today, I wouldn't expect anything until 2013...Spring sounds reasonable.

Well, that's what I figured, but their talking in terms of already existing pre-orders. I'm asking when do they think they will get cameras in their hands, and 2013 is what I'm getting for a response.

I have now contacted every dealer in my area besides Omega, and so far none of them seem to think Cameras will ship until spring 2013. One of the dealers, actually laughed when I asked about expected times.

I preordered in late April and prepaid in full in late July. If I were ordering from scratch today, I wouldn't expect anything until 2013...Spring sounds reasonable.

Well, that's what I figured, but their talking in terms of already existing pre-orders. I'm asking when do they think they will get cameras in their hands, and 2013 is what I'm getting for a response.

Yes, as I said, their confidence is shaken too. It's not good and BMD really needs to communicate better to customers and to dealers. If they weren't behind, it would be different. If they hadn't slipped a few times, it would be different. If they hadn't had to reveal a problem with sensors in their last communication, it would be different. If they had a track record of making, supporting and delivering cameras, it would be different. But as it stands today, they really should talk to us.

Yes, as I said, their confidence is shaken too. It's not good and BMD really needs to communicate better to customers and to dealers. If they weren't behind, it would be different. If they hadn't slipped a few times, it would be different. If they hadn't had to reveal a problem with sensors in their last communication, it would be different. If they had a track record of making, supporting and delivering cameras, it would be different. But as it stands today, they really should talk to us.

Agreed, and potential new customers like myself are hit with the current frustration of buyers like yourself that pre-ordered many months ago is also damaging.