Best tripod for my bmpcc4k 2023

My budget is around 700-800e maximum for this tripod.
I was thinking to invest on a sachtler ace m ms but not sure if this one is the best solution.

last but now least I wanna use this tripod for cinematography purposes.

what could you suggest me?

Both are less thaa 500. us/ are carbon fiber, one latch per leg and more.

Check this one. light and easy to use. It has higher end features.

[video]


Or this one:

[video]

Hi Ricardo,

The discussion about "TwoFaces's" needs ended in September.

I hope that people understand that Sirui and SmallRig paid that YouTuber via goods and/or money to make those two videos.

There are a good number of reviews on B&H by people who actually paid their own money for these tripods, and Neil Haugen's post above talks about his own SmallRig tripod.

Hey Nikolai, are these your YouTube channels?

Yes!

There aren't many people making narrative films for YouTube and I hope you stick with it. While I don't speak German, I liked what I saw of your films. You also have a good feel for music, and for humour. In the credits for EXILE, I noticed that you and your team created some of the music yourselves. I also enjoyed the animation.

I don't know what video head you've been using, but some of the camera movement is quite good; for example the pan at 00:55 in Zwei die verloren gehen und ein Fahrrad.

A few days ago, I came across a YouTube channel that might interest you. The filmmaker, Sadiel Gomez, lives in Toronto but grew up in Cuba. He plays the lead in his films himself. He's a skilled cinematographer, and has a strong feel for sound design, probably because he's also a musician and electronic music producer. He has a wonderfully quirky sense of humour that reminds me of Michel Gondry's early short films.

As a fellow maker of narrative films, you might find his work interesting and entertaining: https://www.youtube.com/@SadielGomez/featured

Gomez says that he has plans to make the occasional behind-the-scenes film.

Just to answer the earlier question, I pair the Manfrotto 502A head with their 546B tripod:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1012985-REG

But since my rig is quite heavy, I really need a better system. However the above is very good with my much lighter BMPCC4K rig.

Before that setup I used a Cartoni Laser and preferred it, but the small rental shop no longer has that.

Before that setup I used a Cartoni Laser and preferred it, but the small rental shop no longer has that.

I'm curious to know what you think of Sandiel Gomez's films. Several are quirky funny. This one's a bit different.

Open Your Mind | A Mind-Bending Short Film (Shot on Fuji XT4)

The end credit says simply "A film by Sadiel Gomez".

The YouTube description elaborates:

Written and Directed: Sadiel Gomez
Cast: Sadiel Gomez
Filmed: Sadiel Gomez
Edited: Sadiel Gomez
Sound Design: Sadiel Gomez

Hi, nothing new its done by almost every company. But these tripods especially the small rig goes beyond its price. I have a manfrotto 502 with its sticks but its heavy as hell. Im winding down and so im Thinking about purchasing the small rig. which I hope will be with me till I drop.


Ricardo Marty
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I only carry my gear short distances perhaps a few hundred feet so weight isn’t a concern for me (and when it becomes a problem) I have two athletes here than can grip for me.

I’m from the school that likes a tripod and head to have mass that helps steady and stabilize the camera during use. With a good head, the camera moves effortlessly but I’ve been in situations where I thought I was going to collapse before completing the shot. I’m thinking of a wedding shoot when my heavy rigged camera on my original inadequate tripod was leaning over a second floor railing as I shot down overlooking those key first dances on the ground floor. Got the shots but exhausted! Less weight would have been appreciated but that was before I had the BMPCC4K.

Miller may be the only company that is still selling conventional aluminium tripod legs (Miller Solo DV) that can be converted between a half-bowl top and a flat top. It comes with a half-bowl. Conversion to a flat top would be done with a levelling base and would take seconds.

At US$513 new, the price of the 2-stage with a 75mm bowl is very attractive. The current carbon fibre equivalent (Miller Solo-Q) weighs 400g less, has a quick release button to deploy the legs and costs $746.

B&H, Miller Solo DV: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ripod.html

B&H, Miller Solo-Q: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... html/specs

Miller Solo DV 75 2 Stage Alloy (#1630)

Miller Aluminium.jpg (132.93 KiB) Viewed 2914 times

Years ago, Philip Bloom made a video that provides an overview of Miller heads and tripod legs. His comments about the Solo legs are relevant today, although minimum and maximum heights have changed a bit since Bloom made this video. See 03:55 and following:

This video is by a gentleman who has owned Miller 2-stage aluminium legs for over a decade.

Miller explains the features of its latest carbon fibre Solo-Q tripod legs in this video:

I'm curious to know what you think of Sandiel Gomez's films. Several are quirky funny. This one's a bit different.

Open Your Mind | A Mind-Bending Short Film (Shot on Fuji XT4)

The end credit says simply "A film by Sadiel Gomez"…

Thoroughly enjoyed that short; thanks.
The alarm has been raised. “Wake Up” people you are a click away from being replaced!

I was at a dinner party yesterday and the host and hostess are now both using AI to greatly speed up their productivity (in completely different disciplines) without significantly detracting the quality of the work.

An analogy would be they’re moving from uncompressed business practices (as if that was CinemaDNG in my imperfect analogy) to the speedier deliver of results from AI tools that are acceptable and appreciated by their clients (as would be true of lossless compressed BRAW Q5 in my analogy). It’s clearly not the AI is doing the thinking, but it’s changing the process methods so results are much speedier and good enough. BRAW Q5 is not uncompressed CinemaDNG, but given the characteristics and limitations of the medium (in my analogy, the captured video), the message (in my analogy, the edited video in DaVinci Resolve), can be indistinguishable to the unaided eye (in my analogy, broadcast viewed by the intended audience).

Following that logic AI seems more friendly than foe. But it may be only a PAY button away from doing the Thinking next as illustrated in that film short when the AI character is at the keyboard.

Whew, this is a long way from the topic of the OP. Apologies but inspiration strikes when it must, not when it’s appropriate.

Tripod question for lighter camera setups. I have been reading through the various tripod discussions on here and decided this seemed like a reasonable place to ask this question.

I have been using an inexpensive fluid head, and was thinking about upgrading to something better. To be clear I have never used anything from Miller or Sachtler or others in that class. For my personal narrative projects I have mostly stuck with locked down shots, do to the limitations of my equipment.

So my question is: Is it even possible to get truly precise pans and tilts with a light camera setup even with a high end tripod that is meant for the lighter camera setups? The few that I have used always have a bit of that "backlash" or "kickback" (I think it is called) that bit of unwanted movement when you start or stop the move.

I know on the bigger shoots that I have been on that there is always a larger ( heavy camera) with a gear head like the arri-airhead to make those smooth and precise pans and tilts. So I guess I am wondering if it's even possible with something from the pocket family of cameras even on a Miller or O'Connor fluid head? Or if this just not really possible with a light camera setup?

Has anyone truly nailed Fincher-esque pans and tilts on a quality but light weight set up?

If people have any first hand knowledge on this I would love to hear about it. Or better yet, if anyone has any footage with a light setup say 4lbs - 10lbs (2kg-5kg) where you could actually achieve smooth and precise starts and stops that would be amazing. It is really frustrating how with a myriad of YouTube videos on different fluid head tripods they rarely ever share any footage of starting and stopping of pans and tilts. Makes me wonder if it just isn't really possible.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

If your rig is balanced well doing smooth and steady pans is easier with only a modest drag setting on the pan. The real challenge as you know is combining a pan with a tilt (while you zoom). This requires a very good balance without extreme tilt.

At the end of your movement, hang onto the pan handle for several seconds if feasible so the fluid action has time to settle and hold the position. If you’re doing a quick series of pan-tilts, that can work if you don’t release the handle at all. I think the movement after a pan or tilt occurs just as you release the tension on the pan handle if the fluid movement has not yet settled.

My BMPCC4K rig is relatively light compared to the 23 pounds or more for my UM4.6K. My zoom is long and relatively heavy, so tilts are challenging on my Manfrotto 502. The camera is definitely balanced if I’m shooting level horizontally for example but when I tilt the front down, I need more drag tension and that makes the pan-tilt difficult as I’m also often zooming at the same time to follow a moving character that I want to capture in a close-up beginning with a wide angle and ending with a telephoto. It can be done but might also be awkward.

If one isn’t zooming, a gearhead would be a good solution, but I can’t manually turn the two controls on a gearhead and zoom concurrently.

I know on the bigger shoots that I have been on that there is always a larger ( heavy camera) with a gear head like the arri-airhead to make those smooth and precise pans and tilts. So I guess I am wondering if it's even possible with something from the pocket family of cameras even on a Miller or O'Connor fluid head? Or if this just not really possible with a light camera setup?

I think that geared heads exist because it isn’t possible to get the control and precision that they offer from a fluid head regardless of camera weight.

At the same time, an awful lot of films have been made with fluid heads that have pans and tilts that look just fine on the screen. I think that this is mainly about learned technique, and in some cases a good editor.

Some fluid heads have a minimum weight. Others, including the Miller CX2 that I use, don’t. When I have the head and a Pocket 4K properly balanced, and my feel is right, I get very good pans and tilts that can be spot on. I also don’t think that a perfect start and perfect stop, with no assistance from the camera operator, is the right question. Unless the shot is being held, it isn’t even needed. A good fluid head provides superior overall handling and is a pleasure to work with.

if you want a geared head, Proaim makes one at a not crazy price. Rick was supposed to check it out at one point (Proaim’s Vancouver office is convenient to him after a ferry ride), but I don’t know if he got around to it :


Arri Airhead:

Rob,

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate it.

Like you mentioned, I am speaking to a narrative situation that might require a pan or tilt that you can't cut away from, but need to move with the character and then hold with them for the rest of the scene. And trying to avoid any extra movement that distracts from the performance. I am wondering if that is even possible with anything other than an Oconnor or geared head with a heavy payload.

That is interesting that you currently own the Miller CX2. That is one of the options I was considering as well. Is the scenario I described above, possible with your Miller and Pocket? I know the Miller has 15 or 16 counterbalance settings, is that enough so that your camera can always be spot on, like with a stepless adjustment on something like an OConnor? Or do you feel like it sometimes falls in between? I am not sure if you happen to have any footage of that you could share? If so that would be great.

I know there are also some newer, cheaper options coming out as well. Tilta has a couple of new fluid head designs coming out in the $1,000 dollar range. I know there is the SCG out of Australia as well, but don't know a ton about it. Although if they sound too good to be true price point wise, that probably is the case.

I have heard of the proaim gear heads and have been curious about them as well. Although they do seem like they would be way less convenient overall. I suppose what I really need to do is rent a few of these and try them out, since Sharegrid in Los Angeles has a lot of things on hand. I was just hoping perhaps someone before me has already wrestled with this question and might have advice that would save a bit of time.

Thanks everyone.

I think that geared heads exist because it isn’t possible to get the control and precision that they offer from a fluid head regardless of camera weight…

if you want a geared head, Proaim makes one at a not crazy price. Rick was supposed to check it out at one point (Proaim’s Vancouver office is convenient to him after a ferry ride), but I don’t know if he got around to it…

No, I didn’t but I’m confidant that’s the best option for combining pan-tilt moves. Unfortunately without an assistant, I can’t do pan-tilt-zoom which would be perfect.

I think that geared heads exist because it isn’t possible to get the control and precision that they offer from a fluid head regardless of camera weight.

This is not true at all; geared heads were more common and only necessary when sound Blimped studio film cameras were absolutely huge and it would have been almost impossible to control them, with a fluid pan and tilt, even safely. But it takes a very skilled operator to use a geared head properly. I can't imagine they are at all necessary in vast amount of cases now.

Good quality fluid heads are very precise. There is not just Miller neither still making good tripods, of whatever material; Vinten and Sachtler too are very much in the market. A really good tripod kit can be a very expensive thing; my Vinten kit which is now over 20 years old and still made is around £9000 + but that is for ENG cameras of up to 20KG; it's not light but camera in left hand and tripod on the shoulder is still manageable between short locations. It is however is only necessary to match the load specs to your camera; though overkill never harms too; and never scrimp, I would urge - get the best you can afford - it's an investment that will be worth it and last too.

I think that geared heads exist because it isn’t possible to get the control and precision that they offer from a fluid head regardless of camera weight.

This is not true at all... it takes a very skilled operator to use a geared head properly. I can't imagine they are at all necessary in vast amount of cases now.

I suggest that you re-read my post. I don’t think that we disagree, and I don’t see anywhere in your post where you do. I’m not talking about the history, and I’m not dissing fluid heads, one of which I use. One of my very points was that a geared head isn’t normally “necessary”. Indeed, I said "A good fluid head ... is a pleasure to work with."

One of the things we agree on is that it takes a very skilled operator to use a geared head. That is surely obvious from the video four posts up. The reference to Proaim’s geared head and the Swartz Bay-Tsawwassen ferry was not a recommendation to go buy one. It was a lighthearted reference to a discussion that Rick and I were involved in about four years ago

Good to see that Dan Cotreau, who I was addressing, understood what I was saying.

I think that geared heads exist because it isn’t possible to get the control and precision that they offer from a fluid head regardless of camera weight.

Good quality fluid heads are very precise. There is not just Miller neither still making good tripods, of whatever material; Vinten and Sachtler too are very much in the market. A really good tripod kit can be a very expensive thing; my Vinten kit which is now over 20 years old and still made is around £9000 + but that is for ENG cameras of up to 20KG; it's not light but camera in left hand and tripod on the shoulder is still manageable between short locations. It is however is only necessary to match the load specs to your camera; though overkill never harms too; and never scrimp, I would urge - get the best you can afford - it's an investment that will be worth it and last too.

Steve,

That would be great If you have an example where there is a fluid head being used with a light camera setup, say (2 or 3 kg) in the situation I described above...

"I am speaking to a narrative situation that might require a pan or tilt that you can't cut away from, but need to move with the character and then hold with them for the rest of the scene. And trying to avoid any extra movement that distracts from the performance. "

...I am willing to make that investment if it is possible. I am just not sure that it is at this point. I have scoured the internet and cannot find it. I have yet to experience it first hand either. Every time that I have seen it done was on larger shoots with much bigger setups and usually with a geared head.

So I just wanted to ask the question is it even possible with the scenario I have mentioned above and a light setup with a camera from the Blackmagic pocket family? Maybe I am just chasing a unicorn and need to realize that it's only possible with larger/heavier setups. If I am mistaken, great I would love to see it and know that it is possible and if so which heads were able to do it. It doesn't matter to me what the brand is particularly, if it works great. If it's cheaper than an Oconnor even better. Again I just haven't seen it with my own eyes and was hoping maybe some else has and perhaps they could share the footage with us.

Thanks

A fluid head has the same requirements as Goldilocks, it needs to be just right. If the head is too large for the cam you’ll be fighting the counterbalance, not enough and the cam will dive.

I own a Sachtler which only has 10 levels of counterbalance so I adjust the tilt drag until it’s just enough to offset the difference between the counterbalance load an the actual weight, then adjust the pan to match.

Professionally we use the Vector 75 fluid heads, they’re pretty OK. When dialed properly you can drive a 90lb camera/lens package with 2 fingers. That said, without a 40-50lb lens they’re unusable.

Good Luck

Like you mentioned, I am speaking to a narrative situation that might require a pan or tilt that you can't cut away from, but need to move with the character and then hold with them for the rest of the scene. And trying to avoid any extra movement that distracts from the performance. I am wondering if that is even possible with anything other than an Oconnor or geared head with a heavy payload.

That is interesting that you currently own the Miller CX2. That is one of the options I was considering as well. Is the scenario I described above, possible with your Miller and Pocket? I know the Miller has 15 or 16 counterbalance settings, is that enough so that your camera can always be spot on, like with a stepless adjustment on something like an OConnor?

I know there are also some newer, cheaper options coming out as well. Tilta has a couple of new fluid head designs coming out in the $1,000 dollar range. I know there is the SCG out of Australia as well, but don't know a ton about it. I suppose what I really need to do is rent a few of these and try them out, since Sharegrid in Los Angeles has a lot of things on hand. I was just hoping perhaps someone before me has already wrestled with this question and might have advice that would save a bit of time.

First, I think that Howard makes good points.

I have no doubt that it’s possible to make the shot that you’re talking about with a good fluid head. It’s going to take practice and I think it might help if you think about using a fluid head organically rather than geometrically and mechanically.

Apparently you have ready access to Sharegrid gear. I think that you should hire someone for a couple of hours who has good experience with using a fluid head, rent one that you’d be prepared to purchase for a half day or day, and try it out. I think that two things will happen. First, you’ll realise almost immediately that a good fluid head is a fairly powerful and confidence-building bit of kit. Secondly, you’ll figure out that you aren’t going to learn how to get the most from it in a couple of hours. If you’ve hired someone who knows what he’s doing, he can show you, in person, what the head is capable of.

Since you’re in the Los Angeles area, I would like to suggest that you also look into Cartoni. The US distributor is based there.

I want to add that I wouldn’t touch an SCG tripod and fluid head with the proverbial 50 foot pole. My reasons should be apparent from this thread from a few days ago: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=201044&p=1046436

Rob,

That does seem like the most sensible approach. I am lucky through both vendors in the area and sharegrid to have the opportunity to try out numerous different options first hand and discover it for myself.

Steve,

That would be great If you have an example where there is a fluid head being used with a light camera setup, say (2 or 3 kg) in the situation I described above...

Dan, when I said overkill is no harm, Howard is absolutely correct, you still need one that can be counter balanced within the camera weight. I have found no real difficulty counterbalancing a kitted pocket say for my Vinten, even though it is designed for a much heavier ENG camera and specced at 7 kg to 20 kg; and therefore not ideal for your case. But you don't need something so big, obviously. I have just found over the years Manfrotto fluid heads, for example, to be very poor in their construction and fluid and pan action; and so a good quality make of whatever size will pay dividends. With the Vinten properly counterbalanced pan and tilt is ultra smooth finger tip control and fares to a stop rather than snapping. This is the head that comes with my kit:

https://www.vinten.com/en/product/visio ... tilt-head/

Steve,

That would be great If you have an example where there is a fluid head being used with a light camera setup, say (2 or 3 kg) in the situation I described above...

Dan, when I said overkill is no harm, Howard is absolutely correct, you still need one that can be counter balanced within the camera weight. I have found no real difficulty counterbalancing a kitted pocket say for my Vinten, even though it is designed for a much heavier ENG camera and specced at 7 kg to 20 kg; and therefore not ideal for your case. But you don't need something so big, obviously. I have just found over the years Manfrotto fluid heads, for example, to be very poor in their construction and fluid and pan action; and so a good quality make of whatever size will pay dividends. With the Vinten properly counterbalanced pan and tilt is ultra smooth finger tip control and fares to a stop rather than snapping. This is the head that comes with my kit:

https://www.vinten.com/en/product/visio ... tilt-head/

Steve,

Yes I looked at the Vinten heads as well. But the minimum payloads on their heads are still too high if you are using the say the BMCC 6k FF which ways weigh about 1.2 kg. Even with a lens and battery you are often under 2kg honestly. Hence the issue of finding something appropriate.

Like I said, perhaps it doesn't exist. I suppose the only way to know for sure is to try a few that at least say they go down to zero and see if they handle like some of the bigger heads. I was hoping someone had already wrestled with this particular dragon and could give me some first hand advice. I suppose if I solve this riddle with some rentals, then I can be the one to share my insight with the next pilgrim wandering lost on this same path.

Ok since there did not seem to be a definitive answer to the question can you get perfect counter balance for smooth pans and tilts on any fluid head for a stripped down light camera setup. I wanted to post an update in case there are others that might have this question.

A lot of the fluid heads with a stepped counter balance start with a minimum weight of 2 KG or around 4.4 lbs. But with a Pocket or BMCC 6K FF with just a lens you are definitely under that threshold. And these heads often increase by 1 KG per step, on the counterbalance, so not very precise when you are working with light loads.

The only two tripod head systems that I know of that offer a stepless, continuous or variable counter balance are OConnor and Cartoni heads. Since the OConnor although amazing, I imagine, is cost prohibitive. I decided to rent a Cartoni Focus 8 system for the weekend. Here is what I have found so far.

The good news: It is possible to get a light setup precisely balanced with this head and achieve pretty smooth pans and tilts. My lightest setup I have balanced on the Cartoni was the BMCC 6K FF with a Canon FD 50mm comes in around 3.2 lbs or 1.44 kg total. So definitely under the 2 KG threshold.

Things to be aware of:

1. With the stepless system you have no idea where you have settled on when you find the right spot. There is definitely a bit of guess work and trial and error to find the right spot. And if you ever need to change lenses or say add an ND Filter or matte box, etc. It will take a bit of time and trial and error to re balance. So not the fastest workflow.

2. With my light setup being so light, You really have set the camera farther forward than you would think to get a proper balance. With my rental they had a camera plate that is a bit longer than what the fluid head calls for. Which comes in handy if you want to slide the camera father toward the front in order to balance with against the weight of the the rear side with the tripod arm. And for some reason I found it was easier to get that balance with the arm extended at its longest setting.

I will attach a photo to try to illustrate what I am describing. Hopefully this will be helpful for others.

Some fluid heads have a minimum weight. Others, including the Miller CX2 that I use, don’t. When I have the head and a Pocket 4K properly balanced, and my feel is right, I get very good pans and tilts that can be spot on. I also don’t think that a perfect start and perfect stop, with no assistance from the camera operator, is the right question. Unless the shot is being held, it isn’t even needed. A good fluid head provides superior overall handling and is a pleasure to work with.

Rob I know you mentioned you get good balanced with your CX2 head. I think that has 16 steps correct? Would you happen to know the weight difference for each step. And If you are making a small incremental change in weight from say a lens change. Do you feel like you are able to recalibrate precisely enough or does some weight amounts fall in between the next step available on your counter balance.

Thought I'd update this with a recent experience.

Historically I've been an advocate for name brand tripods and heads. The reason being that a 15 year old head is still serviceable by the manufacturer, in my case a 15 year old FSB6T. The head developed a problem that I've observed with countless Sachtler heads. The drag wheels, either through contamination or likely impact become sticky and don't engage properly. In my case the tilt drag wheel was sticking and difficult to properly engage. Sent the head off to Vivendum and received an estimate for over $1800, $200 more than a new head, $800 in labor and somehow $1000 dollars in parts??? They offered to trade it out for a measly 20% discount. Bummer, now I need to pay $200+ for inspection and return. YMMV.

Good Luck

I had the same problem likely with the Manfrotto 502 last night. Prepping the camera was fine with smooth movement and the camera was balanced well, but much later in the shoot I couldn’t do a smooth tilt of the UM4.6K. I even completely released the tilt tension and it was still stuck. When I exerted much more force, it would perform a jerky tilt but was improved slightly. I can cut to Camera B so the client won’t have to see those bad tilts on Camera A.

With mine the tilts were fine it was only the tilt selection that was jammed. Honestly can’t fathom the $1000 parts bill. I’ve had automotive transmissions repaired for less. I’m gonna cry BS on the entire process and chalk it up to a sales op.

Good Luck