Blackmagic Forum

Official statement from Blackmagic on new camera shipping:

Simon Westland of Blackmagic Design EMEA

"Blackmagic Design is making significant progress in production of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. Full production manufacturing is underway on the Pocket Cinema Camera with first production units in final testing. This is inline with our initial expectations of the end of July and means the camera will start to ship in quantity during August. There are several weeks of work to do on Production Camera 4K before this will enter full production manufacturing, however we expect to ship the first quantities of this model before the end of August."

Thanks for the update. Is this a response to an e-mail you sent?

Not got it from here...realiable source though

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

LMACKREATH wrote:Not got it from here...realiable source though

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

Hmmm...official statements tend to not to be published on a site promoting Canon products.

Owen Davies wrote:

LMACKREATH wrote:Not got it from here...realiable source though

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

Hmmm...official statements tend to not to be published on a site promoting Canon products.

'Promoting Canon products' shows how little you read EOSHD then

LMACKREATH wrote:Not got it from here...realiable source though

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

The source was my inbox. Thanks to Patrick at Blackmagic in the UK for coming to me out of the blue and clearing this up. I am not sure suggesting August is a good idea when the camera can easily slip a few weeks in the final stages of development, but an official clarification of what is happening is VERY welcome, considering how much conflicting and muddled info there is out there. I've replied back and asked about Pocket camera shipping quantities.

While I DO appreciate both the OP for posting this, EOSHD for reporting it and also the nature of the source - I would urge anyone easily frustrated by conflicting information or disappointment to ONLY ever believe press releases or statements published directly from the source. Even last year people received emails from suppliers and reps which turned out to be not entirely accurate - even some Mods on this forum made mistakes.

I remember the whole fiasco regarding the BMCC delay and then the MFT delay - people insisting that BMD promised "no penalty" - when in fact they never ever said that.

Take everything else, regardless of how close to being 100% official it is (such as this post), with a pinch of salt.

Andrew Reid wrote:

Owen Davies wrote:

LMACKREATH wrote:Not got it from here...realiable source though

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

Hmmm...official statements tend to not to be published on a site promoting Canon products.

'Promoting Canon products' shows how little you read EOSHD then

Andrew. It was not a personal attack on you, or your site, rather the statement itself, it's just a message, a missive, a tell him whatever I have at hand at the moment. My questioning is of its official-ness. I know it's all we have and yes, thank you for posting, but it's a bit misleading in my eyes to call it an 'official statement', rather, its a 'statement from an official' but lets see shall we.

The quote from Simon Westland appears in a number of places, including a much longer version on Televisual who say that Simon "called Televisual to explain…"

I just hope that I have my camera by the middle of august at the latest(the pocket camera) turns out i am number 85 on the pre-order list with my vendor but that does not include anyone who has or will possibly cancel so i may be a little higher up on the list. I am hoping this "small quantities" shipping in the next couple of days will be enough to get me my camera as i also had my local camera shop put in a order for pocket cameras a couple weeks ago and seeing as am the only one to ask my local store only needs to receive ONE pocket camera because I am getting the first one they receive.

I'll believe whatever is said about delivery dates only when it comes from BMD home office directly, not before.

Peter917 wrote:I just hope that I have my camera by the middle of august at the latest(the pocket camera) turns out i am number 85 on the pre-order list with my vendor

Even if you were #1 i wouldn't get my hopes up. If the first cameras leave factories next week it will take a while until they get to your vendors distributor, from the distributor to the vendor, and from there to you. And being number 85 means there is a very long line in front of you, as there are numerous distributors shipping to a great number of vendors, your actual position in the "global line" may very well have four or five digits!

Sorry my bad english my language is spanish, i wait for the 2.5K almost a year and when I receive 8 months later open my new camera 2.5k have factory defects, i return it to the seller and Black Magic show 4K CAMERA and i call seller for change a 2.5k for a 4k , I'm on the front line for the 4K, and this process has cost me to wait a year and two months, please do not give me more dates if you are not sure when your 4K cameras is ready, and i very afraid with your service the day I need warranty service.You do not realize how much they have thousands of people angry and been disappointed.

Waooo Please Black Magic please do not this anymore also has been very bad publicity for you Black Magic

I sincerely hope Grant Petty informs anxious forum member on the progress of manufacturing/shipping which will be reassuring.

I hope to......

Things never ship on time. Early adapters get to the beta test the products and work out the kinks. This is the way of technology since the beginning. From my experience with the BMCC pre-order lists though, if you have the cash in hand don't worry too much about your spot on the list. At my retailer (1 of 2 retailers in all of Toronto) only 1 in every 15 people on list actually took their pre-ordered camera.

My friend i paid my order full. The problem is too much waiting, Black Magic showed the 4K in NAB 2013 when just had not complied with full orders of 2.5 from NAB 2012, recognize that this company has not been well with customers waiting for this cameras, is the honest truth, I hope everything is resolved soon and acknowledge that we will be faithful followers of this new technology for this low price .....
but they speak to us with truth and honesty, for when?
remember as I mentioned before received my camera 2.5 k with many factory defect and return the camera....
now i waiting again for a new 4K and i paid my order full.

ARC wrote:My friend i paid my order full.

That's between you and your vendor - blackmagicdesign has seen no penny from you.

Mac Jaeger wrote:

ARC wrote:My friend i paid my order full.

That's between you and your vendor - blackmagicdesign has seen no penny from you.

I realize that's said a lot around here but don't you think his preorder (paid in full) motivated at least one order by his dealer to BMD wholesale? Do you think BMD extends credit to dealers? The little retailing I've done in my life involved writing a check for my wholesale order (with a few rare exceptions) and taking my profits when the item was sold at retail.

So yes, his preorder did make a monetary contribution to BMD coffers in all likelihood.

mhood wrote:I realize that's said a lot around here but don't you think his preorder (paid in full) motivated at least one order by his dealer to BMD wholesale? Do you think BMD extends credit to dealers? The little retailing I've done in my life involved writing a check for my wholesale order (with a few rare exceptions) and taking my profits when the item was sold at retail.

So yes, his preorder did make a monetary contribution to BMD coffers in all likelihood.

More likely the dealer ordered from their wholesaler/distributor, where they have credit terms and pay on invoice or statement, not at time of ordering.

That's how it's always worked in my experience with retail in Australia. You get credit terms and don't pay for orders until they're filled.

Ryan Jones wrote:

mhood wrote:I realize that's said a lot around here but don't you think his preorder (paid in full) motivated at least one order by his dealer to BMD wholesale? Do you think BMD extends credit to dealers? The little retailing I've done in my life involved writing a check for my wholesale order (with a few rare exceptions) and taking my profits when the item was sold at retail.

So yes, his preorder did make a monetary contribution to BMD coffers in all likelihood.

More likely the dealer ordered from their wholesaler/distributor, where they have credit terms and pay on invoice or statement, not at time of ordering.

That's how it's always worked in my experience with retail in Australia. You get credit terms and don't pay for orders until they're filled.

That would make it a debt that the retailers are legally obligated to pay. BMD can take accounts receivable to the bank.

mhood wrote:So yes, his preorder did make a monetary contribution to BMD coffers in all likelihood.

I can definitely understand that it's been a great source of frustration for people who have their money tied up for a year on a camera that isn't in their hands. Though, I would highly doubt that BMD sees any of that money until the camera ships. The standard practice is to charge upon shipping. We don't know for absolute certain. Some of the smaller retailers may essentially have no special deal with BMD. The financial arrangement between a wholesaler and their retailers are confidential and usually based on volume or negotiation. They're definitely not going to tell customers.

I personally would not pre-pay from any retailer without a shipping date unless they either offered a very special deal, or I had a personal loyalty to the company. I'm not a finance company, I don't want my money tied up in a product that doesn't exist yet.

Jason Hinkle wrote:

mhood wrote:So yes, his preorder did make a monetary contribution to BMD coffers in all likelihood.

I can definitely understand that it's been a great source of frustration for people who have their money tied up for a year on a camera that isn't in their hands. Though, I would highly doubt that BMD sees any of that money until the camera ships. The standard practice is to charge upon shipping. We don't know for absolute certain. Some of the smaller retailers may essentially have no special deal with BMD. The financial arrangement between a wholesaler and their retailers are confidential and usually based on volume or negotiation. They're definitely not going to tell customers.

I personally would not pre-pay from any retailer without a shipping date unless they either offered a very special deal, or I had a personal loyalty to the company. I'm not a finance company, I don't want my money tied up in a product that doesn't exist yet.

Do you think BMD will still be in the camera business if nobody pre-ordered?
It is not the hard cash but the interest and size of pre-orders that guarantee a return of profit. If nobody laid out any deposit no dealer would place a pre-order and BMD won't bother.

mhood wrote:That would make it a debt that the retailers are legally obligated to pay. BMD can take accounts receivable to the bank.

Seeing as the units have not shipped from the manufacturer to the reseller, no exchange of goods has taken place yet and no debt has been incurred. Credit terms begin upon invoice, which does not happen until the product has shipped. It would be hard for BMD to take accounts receivable to the bank on an invoice that has yet to be created.

The only resellers that are required to pay in advance are typically those that either have not established a line of credit with the manufacturer or those that have a credit history spotted with red flags. If it is the latter, common sense would advise against doing business with them. Either way, in both instances the reseller is not obligated to pay until the units are ready to ship.

Samjack wrote:Do you think BMD will still be in the camera business if nobody pre-ordered?
It is not the hard cash but the interest and size of pre-orders that guarantee a return of profit. If nobody laid out any deposit no dealer would place a pre-order and BMD won't bother.

Pre-ordering and pre-paying are different things.

Andrew Lucas wrote:Either way, in both instances the reseller is not obligated to pay until the units are ready to ship.

I really don't understand this need many have to divorce BMD from participation/profit in the preorder process. A retailer gets 100 preorders. They are on the BMD Approved Resellers List on the BMD Website, potential buyers have been directed there at trade shows and the BMD Website. The retailer is confident they can move 100 items when they receive them (some based on actual cash deposits from their customers).

BMD then accepts the wholesale preorder, dates it, marks how many items were ordered and places the retailer in a queue that favors the earliest and largest (much like the retailers rank their customer's preorders).

BMD is relatively certain (especially if they have extended credit to the retailer) that any item they manufacture and ship will be paid for at the going wholesale rate. "Hey look Mr. Banker, we have 10,000 preorders total from 50 of our best retailers. When we ship, we're going to make $xxxxx dollars for sure."

BMD is in this wholesale/preorder strategy up to their eyeballs. I can't imagine why anyone would try to deny that.

Andrew, thanks for the clear description. Spot on.

mhood wrote:I really don't understand this need many have to divorce BMD from participation/profit in the preorder process.

It's not just BMD. Payment terms between a manufacturer and their retailer/distributor do not start until the product has invoiced. Invoices cannot legally be produced until the product has shipped. Therefore, BMD does not receive payment until the product has shipped. That is just how manufacturing works. As I said before, no exchange of goods has occurred and therefore no money has exchanged hands between BMD and their retailers.

New product developments are not financed by consumers pre-ordering. That is the case with Kickstarter, but we are not dealing with crowd funding when we deal with BMD. BMD goes to 'Mr. Banker' and is extended credit based on pre-order forecasts and actuals. While the consumer does incur financial responsibility until the product has shipped, BMD's credit terms begin as soon as the money is lended. That's why when you hear Grant or other BMD individuals saying "BMD is as invested as anyone in shipping on time." That is because they are in fact more invested than anyone else. If they cannot ship the units, they are not able to invoice, which means they are not receiving payments from their retailers, therefore they not able to pay 'Mr. Banker' in the manner they originally planned (most likely they will need to cut into the profit margins of one of their other products in order to pay their creditors until the delayed product becomes solvent).

That being said...I will reiterate that it is not very wise to purchase product from a retailer that requires 100% upfront deposit on a product which does not have a concrete ship date.

Jason Hinkle wrote:

Samjack wrote:Do you think BMD will still be in the camera business if nobody pre-ordered?
It is not the hard cash but the interest and size of pre-orders that guarantee a return of profit. If nobody laid out any deposit no dealer would place a pre-order and BMD won't bother.

Pre-ordering and pre-paying are different things.

Really?

When you have BMD admitting that they ship out cameras based on the size of pre-orders from customers from a particular reseller. If it based on your theory then BMD should ship out the same amount of cameras to all reseller big or small because they don't make a penny until the camera is sold.
I admit Europe gets a bum deal compare to USA but even so how come small resellers always get fewer cameras than a bigger reseller that had bigger pre-orders within a particular distribution region?

...so the amount of wholesale orders (based on the retail preorders) has no impact on BMD? BMD does not enjoy any financial benefit by having a very large number of wholesale orders to fill? BMD is in no way motivated to facilitate preorders? BMD hasn't facilitated retail preorders?

Who started that "BMD don't make a penny" statement that been turned into gospel?
I've heard it a lot.
TBH pre-order BMD camera wise to me look increasingly like another form of kickstarter

Blablabla....blablabla.

Blaaaasblablabllaa... Money.... Shipping.....DELIVER no no BLACKMAGIC......reseller.... Preorder......
Prepay......

This Year no next year

And fill the forum about these things!!!

Robert RED wrote:Blablabla....blablabla.

Blaaaasblablabllaa... Money.... Shipping.....DELIVER no no BLACKMAGIC......reseller.... Preorder......
Prepay......

This Year no next year

And fill the forum about these things!!!

post of the month!

So, what's the conclusion here? Blackmagic, can we please get an official statement? I enjoy using your products and we are all very excited about your new cameras. I think they are game changers, but if you can put the consumer at ease and at least give us a statement to clear the air or rumors it would be much appreciated.

Cheers everyone, hopefully soon.

Why the wall of silence from Black magic? All it would take is a small nod in our direction to say "we appreciate your concerns but we promise not to completely shaft you like we did last year. We WILL be delivering the cameras by date x".

the thing i don't understand is that anyone who pre-ordered these cameras is getting it because there isn't another option they want to go with.

Its not as if being open and honest with pre-orders buyers is really going to hurt them.

telling someone like me who only just pre-ordered it and say hey you probably wont get it until christmas time would make me feel better not worse.

keeping people in limbo is always the worst thing to do. Hopefully someone from BMD actually reads this stuff.

Hello all. I don't have a more "official" statement to share, but I can confirm that the quote from Simon is accurate.

Andrew Reid wrote:

Owen Davies wrote:

LMACKREATH wrote:Not got it from here...realiable source though

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10867/offi ... a-shipping

Hmmm...official statements tend to not to be published on a site promoting Canon products.

'Promoting Canon products' shows how little you read EOSHD then

yea, EOSHD.com is about far more than that. i suggest you follow that blog, its worth your time

Jason Hinkle wrote:

mhood wrote:So yes, his preorder did make a monetary contribution to BMD coffers in all likelihood.

I can definitely understand that it's been a great source of frustration for people who have their money tied up for a year on a camera that isn't in their hands. Though, I would highly doubt that BMD sees any of that money until the camera ships. The standard practice is to charge upon shipping. We don't know for absolute certain. Some of the smaller retailers may essentially have no special deal with BMD. The financial arrangement between a wholesaler and their retailers are confidential and usually based on volume or negotiation. They're definitely not going to tell customers.

I personally would not pre-pay from any retailer without a shipping date unless they either offered a very special deal, or I had a personal loyalty to the company. I'm not a finance company, I don't want my money tied up in a product that doesn't exist yet.

in my case, i contacted B&H and asked them to just debit my money ahead of it shipping. the longer the money sits in my bank account the more tempted i am to cancel and buy something else. i very nearly did cancel in fact. but B&H will take your money before it ships if you ask them to. they took mine

Christine Peterson wrote:Hello all. I don't have a more "official" statement to share, but I can confirm that the quote from Simon is accurate.

So should we take that to mean that you are confirming that cameras will ship today?

It is, after all, THE LAST day of July...

Units already started shipping out from the factory, I believe. But it can take several days for them to travel to the distributors, to the resellers, and finally to the end customers. Longer in some regions than others due to different paperwork and processes that vary from country to country.

Christine Peterson wrote:Units already started shipping out from the factory, I believe. But it can take several days for them to travel to the distributors, to the resellers, and finally to the end customers. Longer in some regions than others due to different paperwork and processes that vary from country to country.

Well that's good news. But I guess I should have pre-ordered from someone on the west coast maybe? I never really thought about the geography. I'm guessing the cameras will probably come in from AU to the Port of Los Angeles then go all the way to NYC so that B&H can ship it back to me in CA... Just speculation... It'll be interesting to see who gets them first.

Christine Peterson wrote:Units already started shipping out from the factory, I believe. But it can take several days for them to travel to the distributors, to the resellers, and finally to the end customers.

How many?

Andrew Reid wrote:

Christine Peterson wrote:Units already started shipping out from the factory, I believe. But it can take several days for them to travel to the distributors, to the resellers, and finally to the end customers.

How many?

42.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(Hitchh ... the_Galaxy)#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life.2C_the_Universe.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29



-

...a drip...a trickle...a stream...a flow...a torrent?

1 camera!

mhood wrote:...a drip...a trickle...a stream...a flow...a torrent?

A spray.

I really love what Black Magic are trying to do but their PR and customer relations really suck...

http://prolost.com/blog/2013/7/26/the-b ... oming.html

The article from Corruptframe ( sorry your parents were apparently stuck for a name) is spot on. I can only conclude that silence is more advantageous for BMD than a quick honest official update. This forum has helped me determine that BMD is for the bleeding edge with other options while they wait. I know enough now as a hobbyist to be saving for a GH3 or its successor.

I hope BMD can get a handle on its development schedule and resist the urge to massage executive egos with premature tradeshow-driven announcements.

Steve Holmlund wrote:The article from Corruptframe ( sorry your parents were apparently stuck for a name) is spot on. I can only conclude that silence is more advantageous for BMD than a quick honest official update. This forum has helped me determine that BMD is for the bleeding edge with other options while they wait. I know enough now as a hobbyist to be saving for a GH3 or its successor.

I hope BMD can get a handle on its development schedule and resist the urge to massage executive egos with premature tradeshow-driven announcements.

ouch.