PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

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The County Nerd

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PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostTue Dec 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Hi Folks,

Does the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K support USB 3.1 gen2?
I have two enclosures for an M2 card - one is USB 3.1 and the other is USB 3.1 gen 2.
The USB 3.1 works.
However, I cannot get the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K to write to the USB 3.1 gen 2.
I also have a Crucial X8 which is USB 3.2 and it doesn't work either.
I've tried formatting it as HFS+ and ExFAT - same result.
All enclosures work fine with my Mac.

I did try a few searches on this topic - but apologize if it's been covered before.
First post to this board - please be gentle! ;)
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Robert Niessner

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostThu Dec 26, 2019 10:04 pm

Kevin, the USB-C on the camera is gen 1, so no support for gen 2 devices. I guess it could be changed in firmware to set those gen 2 into compatibility mode, but that might be more complicated than on a full sized OS like Windows or OSX.
Robert Niessner
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The County Nerd

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostThu Dec 26, 2019 10:09 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Kevin, the USB-C on the camera is gen 1, so no support for gen 2 devices. I guess it could be changed in firmware to set those gen 2 into compatibility mode, but that might be more complicated than on a full sized OS like Windows or OSX.


Thanks Robert - hoping that it is addressable in firmware.
There are so many excellent and inexpensive storage solutions that would become available.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostThu Dec 26, 2019 10:19 pm

Kevin, there is a strong reason behind “verified support list”, simply ... avoid waste of money and time.
Too often I saw people that’s waste their time to struggle to use supports different from verified list. Writing at high speed video data on a support is a very complex combination of different factors, which you can manage few of them.
It’s quite funny do test on device (me too a do often), but before to use it with a work, double check many times.
Too often many supports work for a few times, slow down during filling support and more.
We can hope that in future will support more, but actually we have that we have :-)


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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 12:54 am

Hi Carlo,

This is a well informed board!

My goal is to look for less expensive ways to store the video.
For example I have an inexpensive 2.5 inch drive enclosure.
I put a good quality SSD into it (Crucial MX500) and I was able to fill the drive videoing at 60 FPS in BRAW Q0.
I had the "stop recording if card drops a frame" turned on and the drive filled.
If I was on a job - I would then replace the drive in the enclosure with another $100 SSD.

It's rare to see specific devices specified - it's usually a standard (I love standards, there are so many to choose from).
I'm hoping they'll support the 3.1 gen.2 in a firmware update.

carlomacchiavello wrote:Kevin, there is a strong reason behind “verified support list”, simply ... avoid waste of money and time.
It’s quite funny do test on device (me too a do often), but before to use it with a work, double check many times.
Too often many supports work for a few times, slow down during filling support and more.
We can hope that in future will support more, but actually we have that we have :-)
Kevin Nealon
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rick.lang

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 4:25 am

You can still use a Gen 2 device of course if you prefer that for compatibility with Gen 2 computer connections for example. At this time you wouldn’t see that higher throughput from the camera.
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Uli Plank

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 10:00 am

But he didn't succeed in writing to it, Rick.
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rick.lang

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 pm

Oops! Thanks, Uli. Would the fault lie with the enclosure restricting a gen 2 connection?
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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 9:48 pm

The fault lies with the 4K.
The USB 3.1 gen 2 standard is backwards compatible (I have also seen a USB 3.2 standard listed).
So the 4K should work with these interfaces.

If the media is fast enough it should work with the 4K - so something is goofy in the way the 4K implements the 3.1 interface.

rick.lang wrote:Oops! Thanks, Uli. Would the fault lie with the enclosure restricting a gen 2 connection?
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostSun Dec 29, 2019 11:38 pm

The County Nerd wrote:Hi Carlo,

This is a well informed board!

My goal is to look for less expensive ways to store the video.
For example I have an inexpensive 2.5 inch drive enclosure.
I put a good quality SSD into it (Crucial MX500) and I was able to fill the drive videoing at 60 FPS in BRAW Q0.
I had the "stop recording if card drops a frame" turned on and the drive filled.
If I was on a job - I would then replace the drive in the enclosure with another $100 SSD.

It's rare to see specific devices specified - it's usually a standard (I love standards, there are so many to choose from).
I'm hoping they'll support the 3.1 gen.2 in a firmware update.

From my experience is very difficult challenge. The same Blackmagic Design (and also Sony) must follow rigid test to approve supports, and for a small period. Check the San disk extreme Sd 95 mbit thread ti understand how producers change spec, controller and more during production and tool that I can buy today and work fine, tomorrow buying with same production code will have different memory controller and not have same compatibility.

To use it for video recording you must allow to work fine
- camera usb controller
- box usb controller
- box sata /nv controller
- memory sata interface
- memory cell controller

If ones of that is a weak point all chain stop to work.
Today most of producer lie on real continuous performance of their products, often talk about maximum speed reading or peak writing performance but no one give you a constant data rate assurance of writing.
Anyway ...
I found that like for Ursa Mini Pro g1, startech box for sata ssd work fine for most of situation, they had esata and usb 3.0 (3.0-3.1gen1 had 625mb bandwitch limits), with San disk extreme pro ssd you can write q0 at 60fps4k, with samsung Evo 860 you reach q0/3:1 30p ever.
Tested filling cards formatting in camera and recording at hyper focal the wave of sea, the most complex and continuous motion after lead in the wind, I’m lucky I live near the sea.


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Uli Plank

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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostMon Dec 30, 2019 10:02 am

I also found that the StarTech enclosure was the only one working with the home made solution for our UMP G1.

BTW, motion doesn't matter for BRAW, it's an I-frame codec. Only detail, contrast and sharpness does.
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Re: PCC4K - Not Supporting USB 3.1 gen2

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 10:16 pm

Hi Folks,

So… I have some evidence that it's not the USB 3.1 gen 2 - it's the interface to the storage media itself.
I have two nearly identical storage devices they have the same interface - but one uses SATA based storage and the other NVMe.

The SATA model works with the PCC4K - the NVMe does not.

While I can format the NVMe card on the PCC4K - it does not record.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rsru5rmnrpm8zd/IMG_0727.jpeg?dl=0
(Used a URL because I couldn't get the image to display)

A little something on the web about the difference:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
Kevin Nealon
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