Cold + BMPCC4K

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petrvagner

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Cold + BMPCC4K

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 3:26 pm

Hello,

It is winter here where I live, which means temperature of 0C - 10C. There has been a problem powering the camera on from 10C and lower. I would have to blow hot air into the cooler below to warm it up in order to start it (you can see the imagery in your head how ridiculous I looked). Although this is a great hack, it should be solved in 6.9 update. The error seems to be with the 7.4 battery system, because if I use a dummy adapter and run 12 Volts into the camera though the battery compartment it powers up no matter how low the temperature is.

I am using brand new Canon original batteries. I understand there has to be some corners cut to save cash, but everything I own, cameras or non cameras, powers up until -10 at least. Even the original BMPCC.

Is it my technical problem with the camera or is this issue known?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 4:15 pm

I have shot with my PCC4k during cold winter on the outside a lot - even on a mountain at 2.500 m in -15° C and never had a problem to power on the camera. All Canon LP-E6n batteries.

Are you sure you got genuine Canon batteries? Because there are a lot of fakes out there.
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petrvagner

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 4:23 pm

Yes, bought at authorized places and one even came with my EOS R. So that one I believe to be superreal. It seems to be a problem with my camera then. Damn...
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 6:44 pm

I think your best bet is to contact BMD support and ask if this is a known issue with a faulty camera.

Only other thing coming to my mind would be that there is a problem with the contacts in the battery compartment so that in low temperatures they won't touch the batteries contacts. You might have a look into your compartment if you can see anything unusual. But that is a far fetch.

Or there is a problematic electronic part which does not like low temps.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostThu Feb 13, 2020 10:29 pm

What about a simple 4x18650 battery pack option and DC plug adapter? Would that work?
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Phil999

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 2:11 am

external power pack works from my experience, although where I live (1200m) we had a rather mild winter this year. But when the wind is blowing hard and the sun vanishes, the power pack stops providing power. The internal battery however keeps the camera rolling, but I have to put the power pack in my trouser back pocket or under the jacket to warm it up. After half an hour the power pack is warm enough to provide power to the camera again.

After these experiences I tried a different method. I put the power pack in a wool cap, inside a black bag (from one of my lenses), hanged to the tripod. The February sun can warm up things, especially when it is black. This kept the power pack functional over about 3 hours of shooting. The external Samsung T5 was wrapped in isolating plastic, I think this is also important when there is strong wind.

What I can tell, I am very satisfied with the P4k under these harsh conditions. It functions without hickup, and the footage is marvellous (heavy snow storm at about 1500m). With Q0, 75 fps, and phantom power to microphone. These are most difficult situations, the camera worked flawlessly.
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John Morris

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 3:12 am

I had the same problem with my camera last year. Under 10C would only power on with external power (even with genuine Canon batteries).
BMD replaced it with a new BMPCC4K under warrantee and now I no longer have the cold power-on issue.
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Overlander

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 3:23 am

We do something similar with the batteries for our electric bikes, ie wrap them in leg warmers. I have also used heat packs for batteries, though one would not want them to get tooooo warm.
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rick.lang

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Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 3:28 am

On the recent test of the URSA Mini 4.6K PL documenting the BMVA12G7 mounted on the BMPCC4K recording to CFast2 256GB, Wise SDXC 128GB, and Wise Portable 1 TB, the media, two cameras, and the monitor/recorder all worked without issues below 10 degrees Celsius mid-morning. No snow storm, ha!
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Howard Roll

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 12:14 pm

I had an HVX back in the day and it would shut off at -10c. After Panasonic repaired the camera it’s operational threshold was lower than mine so I never found out how cold was too cold. If the camera won’t power on at 10c it’s basically broken. Any fault triggered by such a marginal environmental trigger is indicative of a problem. Send it back.

Good Luck
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Michael_Andreas

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 4:27 pm

Have you tried keeping the Canon battery in your pants pocket to keep it warm until you're ready to shoot, and only then putting it into the Pocket Camera?
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MikeMeagher

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 9:12 pm

All electronic devices must cope with staying warm via some manner.
My Gopros do not like the below zero cold and i use many tricks to keep batteries warm when skiiing.

The rovers on Mars and the Voyager spacecraft fight this same battle. And use warmers and other methods to keep electronics warm....

When trying to keep the camera warm..try covering the camera body vent holes with tape. Close them off To keep the heat in. It may help. I do this on my DJI drones when flying in extreme cold.
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Mike Potton

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 9:38 pm

I have just received my 4K back from Antartica, where it was embedded with a science team, it worked fine with a v-mount battery. Unsure of the temp, usually it’s around -20c
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rick.lang

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 10:19 pm

I believe it was quite mild this summer in Anarctica as there was a news article on their balmy temperatures this summer v
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 10:50 pm

"Balmy" is very relative in the Antarctic Rick :)

I'm guessing that particular wheather was isolated to the coast.
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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 11:14 pm

Jim Giberti wrote:"Balmy" is very relative in the Antarctic Rick :)

I'm guessing that particular wheather was isolated to the coast.


From Wikipedia:

“The highest temperature ever recorded on the Antarctic continent was 18.3 °C (64.9 °F) at Esperanza Base, on the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula, on 6 February 2020, beating the previous record of 17.5 °C (63.5 °F) at the same location on 24 March 2015”.
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robedge

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 11:17 pm

On trips to the Canadian Arctic, I’ve found that a Canada Goose full length parka and a Leica M3 (“Look Ma, no batteries”) work pretty good. Maybe a windup Bolex?
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro/180mm telephoto

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rick.lang

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 12:12 am

We’ve got the windup Bolex, but not the Canada Goose.
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robedge

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 12:25 am

rick.lang wrote:We’ve got the windup Bolex, but not the Canada Goose.


There’s probably not a lot of call for Canada Goose parkas on Vanvouver Island, although waist-length versions are now ubiquitous here in New York. Makes me feel self-conscious wearing one, with an urge to say to total strangers “I’m not making a fashion statement, I actually use it, really, I swear!”

That said, you might find that one comes in handy if you ever fly from Vancouver up the Rockies to Whitehorse :)
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro/180mm telephoto

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

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rick.lang

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 12:40 am

And Newfoundland!
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robedge

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 12:46 am

rick.lang wrote:And Newfoundland!


Bought mine at Mercer’s Marine, in Clarenville on the Bonavista Peninsula.

I try to spend most of the summer, into the fall and sometimes a couple of weeks over Christmas/New Year, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity,_ ... d_Labrador

Photos and more info for people who’d like to visit: https://www.newfoundlandlabrador.com/to ... ns/trinity
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro/180mm telephoto

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-3
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Curtis Campsall

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 1:52 am

robedge wrote:On trips to the Canadian Arctic, I’ve found that a Canada Goose full length parka and a Leica M3 (“Look Ma, no batteries”) work pretty good. Maybe a windup Bolex?


I can confirm (well second hand) that the bolex can handle the arctic. The one I have was taken there on expeditions by the original owner.

But there is really no reason why a modern solid state camera can't handle-10c or colder even if marked for 0 as coldest. I used to shoot on tape colder than that, when you had to take precautions. Humidity issues, going from cold outside into warm moist air can cause problems.
Dop16mm on the other forum
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John Morris

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 7:15 am

When I had my bad camera I did some testing to try and work out where the problem with cold lay. It was nothing to do with battery temperature. I could put a warm battery into the cold camera and get the power-on failure or a cold (-20C) battery in a warm camera and have normal operation. The susceptibility to cold was something within the BMPCC4K. BMD tried replacing the battery board but that wasn't the cause and they ended up replacing the camera.
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petrvagner

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Re: Cold + BMPCC4K

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 9:48 am

Thank you all, going in on Tuesday for a warranty claim. It should not be problem, since it does not operate as intended. Funny thing about all of this I have a lot of Blackmagic gear (4 cameras already, all workhorses AF) and I waited a whole year to pull the trigger on this cheaper one. Simple reason? You dont buy the first car of the assembly line at that price point :lol: Bodywork does not line up, even the people putting it together have no clue etc. There was the price tag as well. For that "cheap" or better yet "less expensive" I expected people to troubleshoot it for me during the year and report bugs. Even a year did not help. We are living in an age of beta testers for companies that are trying to outdo each other to the market with sub par components. But hey, I love the price tag on this baby, Im a sucker like the rest. My Leica Q has no problems for example, but I did not just one day walk in to a shop and threw it in the bag with some cables just so the shipping could be free... like I did the BMPCC4K. And that is the exact market they are aiming at. So no pain for me, just dont want to go through the whole deal over and over. Hope they fix it the first time around.

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