Pocket Cinema Camera "Blooming Sensor"

We Are Special!

Couldnt have said it better Darryl

We Are Special!

Couldnt have said it better Darryl

Thanks James, but your smiles will come less often once you get your 3rd warning
But it's a Barrel of laughs taking the journey, I assure you

For the record:

I never have "claimed to know what the problem is" - all I said was I have an idea and need footage to look into it.

Nice Frank, way to quickly cover your arse

Just kidding Frank

I go out on a limb here, but if I'm right, it has nothing to do with the camera per se.

I try to reach Philip tomorrow maybe it's a much easier fix, than we all think.

We are eagerly waiting for the much easier fix.

But in my opinion, Fix black spot issue is more important then this one, though it can be fix in computer, it is very waste of time if I have to shoot something long.

Taken today. Shot with a camera introduced in 2010 which software is currently at V8.

It's the Arri Alexa. I was shooting the sun out of a moving train.

JB

Hey John,
I'm not sure that even looks like "Blooming" or even close to the same bad effect people are complaining about? it looks more like a "Black Spot" ever small as it is, but the "Bloom" looks nothing like this in my opinion.
Anyway............................?

I think John is trying to say even a now matured camera, that is considered one of the finest cameras money can buy, on its 8th firmware version is still susceptible to image artifacts. It's some BMD make poor quality kit, just these things happen.

We really need an answer from BMD, NOW!

Everyone´s waiting for the Pocket or is getting it at the moment. Take your time with the fix, but tell us, if you can fix it at all! We need to make decisions. My reseller is about to get a few pocket cameras and sadly I will have to cancel my order if I hear nothing from BMD and must assume this will be a persistent problem.

I think this is an issue that a firmware update can fix, not unlike the sun spot problem is...
When will they get around to fixing it is the "Big Question".

?

Well, RED was able to fix their "black sun" problem by firmware.

Phillip's 2nd review part is out with new footage. He does not mentioned it at all.

What do you think? Can you see it here?

I always find it interesting that the public manage to find these issues yet they get past the professionals that do beta testing.. Not only that the public have noticed the issue just by looking at footage the testers post.

Phillip's 2nd review part is out with new footage. He does not mentioned it at all.

What do you think? Can you see it here?

only here:

ScreenHunter_185 Aug. 28 14.05.jpg (76.8 KiB) Viewed 23212 times

On the in focus section where we see the lamp-posts - we can see the hard circular clipping over the top of the flare.

Why did Frank guy say he might know what the problem is and then went silent,.

Cause I don't know it.

I need unmolested material straight from the card, with the white blobs on it, so I can look into it, before I can say anything - more unfounded speculation doesn't help anybody.

Since I don't have a Pocket yet, I mailed several folks, if I can have their footage, but no luck yet.

I'm shooting on the set for the next 5 days anyway, so if I don't get any footage till tonight, I have no chance to look into it till next week.

If you have an avenue that might be worth people checking out surely it's better you say what it is and others can at least check it. it's not speculation it's checking something out, who knows its some software check box needs clicking in resolve etc. I personally think John B is being disingenuous to the forums ability to potentially solve a problem when it was the forum and not testers or BM that found the issue. Of course if its a hardware or firmware issue then it's in BM's ballpark.

Well I just received my pocket camera and the problem definitely occurs. I went out and did some testing to see if I can reproduce it. Any bright point light in evening/nighttime will overload the sensor and give you the round highlight. Exposing lower results underexposure. The blooming behaviour can be seen on the LCD screen when you are recording. You need to underexpose a lot to stop the blooming from occurring. Check the link for a couple of examples
http://imgur.com/a/ojov6

It's not all bad though...the camera does produce amazing images.

Phillip's 2nd review part is out with new footage. He does not mentioned it at all.

What do you think? Can you see it here?

its there read the first page of this thread its the pinocchio effect. 18:14 check it, its there.
Black hole when shooting the sun he does mention this one specifically.

Philip Bloom's part 2 review of the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is absolutely outstanding.


There are some issues with the Audio,
Even when recording with external mic the sound quality is very low, even on highest peak.
Philip has advised to use a separate recording device.
the other issue is the lack of Audio meter.

A no go issue for us right now as for the main peergroup, I think: the GH2 or GH3-owners who have their equipment. Lenses, cards, rigs, mics, audiorecorder etc. .

So what to do? BMCC MFT has no active mount. BMPCC 4K isn´t available and won´t work with MFT glasses. And the pocket didn´t work in highlights! For now it´s a great disappointment. I won´t order anything in alpha-state (audiometers, slow autofocus, no raw, "white orbs", battery life).

Maybe the big ones in the camera business are using this upcoming delay of shipping final-state BM cameras to build something comparable. The demand for DR and Raw is huuuge, as anybody sees. For the moment we are looking for the magic lantern wizardry more closer and stay tuned while filming with the hacked GH2.

Hey John B & Frank,
thanks for all time you guys put in to posting while working..
I only manage about 10 mins then have to pass out to get up again
Cheers
Bernie Ryan
Director
Cyber City Films

Philip Bloom's part 2 review of the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is absolutely outstanding.


There are some issues with the Audio,
Even when recording with external mic the sound quality is very low, even on highest peak.
Philip has advised to use a separate recording device.
the other issue is the lack of Audio meter.

Uaahhh! Damnit!
I expected descent audio from the pocket. On my BMCC I don´t even expect it to record audio but on the pocket, as I would use it as run´n´gun light documentery camera, an external audio recorder is no solution. In that case I could just use my BMCC...

Phillip's 2nd review part is out with new footage. He does not mentioned it at all.

What do you think? Can you see it here?

only here:

The attachment ScreenHunter_185 Aug. 28 14.05.jpg is no longer available

On the in focus section where we see the lamp-posts - we can see the hard circular clipping over the top of the flare.

And here:

Screen shot 2013-08-28 at 10.55.17 AM.png (366.16 KiB) Viewed 23126 times

And this was one of the worst I've seen so far. The car light blinks, it is terrible imo..
https://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/72972391

Screen shot 2013-08-28 at 10.53.06 AM.png (639.79 KiB) Viewed 23126 times

Philip Bloom's part 2 review of the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is absolutely outstanding.


There are some issues with the Audio,
Even when recording with external mic the sound quality is very low, even on highest peak.
Philip has advised to use a separate recording device.
the other issue is the lack of Audio meter.

Uaahhh! Damnit!
I expected descent audio from the pocket. On my BMCC I don´t even expect it to record audio but on the pocket, as I would use it as run´n´gun light documentery camera, an external audio recorder is no solution. In that case I could just use my BMCC...

Yeah Audio is as important as the Video if not more important, I am very disappointed with the camera as well, it shoots great footage but the deficiencies and issues that is facing now bar far outweighs any benefits.
I would opt for a GH3 for now they are micro 4/3 as well so the lens you buy can be used later for the BMPCC.

I just watched the video. Bloom is using the videomic not the videomic pro. The videomic pro has a much louder output than the videomic. Maybe the pocket works with it.

Enough offtopic...

And this was one of the worst I've seen so far. The car light blinks, it is terrible imo..
https://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/72972391

Screen shot 2013-08-28 at 10.53.06 AM.png

[/quote]


Oh my!!!!!
What a disaster.
In my opinion, this footage renders the camera useless to me shooting any night scene.
I"m getting the camera today...
I have 29 days before it goes back if there will be no official statement from BMD as to a path of fixing this issue.
Such a shame... I was waiting so long for this little camera

And this was one of the worst I've seen so far. The car light blinks, it is terrible imo..
https://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/72972391

Screen shot 2013-08-28 at 10.53.06 AM.png

Oh my!!!!!
What a disaster.
In my opinion, this footage renders the camera useless to me shooting any night scene.
I"m getting the camera today...
I have 29 days before it goes back if there will be no official statement from BMD as to a path of fixing this issue.
Such a shame... I was waiting so long for this little camera [/quote]


Do you have to be such a drama queen, comments on the clip are all saying how great it looks, a week ago you would've said the same, I would bet good money on it...

I just watched the video. Bloom is using the videomic not the videomic pro. The videomic pro has a much louder output than the videomic. Maybe the pocket works with it.

Enough offtopic...

I highly doubt it because he also tests the internal mic for sound level (not quality) the low volume still persist.

Mine was shipped on Monday to a friend in the US who would bring it to me only in September to Brazil (without the box to avoid the high custom duties). It was a VERY HARD decision but I had to cancel the delivery because in the case of a hardware fix, it would be almost impossible to me, as it would be difficult returning it within 30-day period. But now I'm thinking about getting another pre-order, hoping the issue would be fixed soon... BTW, Bloom's footage is gorgeous... OMG!!

I'm the first few on CVP list.
When it arrives (if it arrives at all) I won't be opening it and it will go straight on ebay

We Are Special!

Couldnt have said it better Darryl

Thanks James, but your smiles will come less often once you get your 3rd warning
But it's a Barrel of laughs taking the journey, I assure you

Werent they suppose to ban you after the 3 strikes?

I noticed the white orbs occur when the point of light is in focus. That's why we don't see it on the girl close-up sequence on the bridge, on PB's footage. You guys who have the camera, please try this: point it to a car light at night and then play with the focus back and forth.... just an idea...

We shot ProRes HQ on a camera that arrived at our office Thursday August 15, 2013. There should be some links to original footage popping up around the web as these cameras get into the hands of shooters.

when I'll get the camera tonight, I will preform a test with a bare bulb, a resolution chart and a subject, shooting 800 asa film mode on my lumix 14mm f2.5... will show the range from f22 to f.2.5 to show exactly when and how the clipping will effect the sensor.

Great!

We shot ProRes HQ on a camera that arrived at our office Thursday August 15, 2013. There are original camera files available for download here:

Thank you for providing the footage!

I noticed the white orbs occur when the point of light is in focus. That's why we don't see it on the girl close-up sequence on the bridge, on PB's footage.

The effect is visible in de-focussed parts of some videos as well, e.g. in some of Blooms footage. But it's less likely to occur there because even bright point lights get a lot darker when their light is spread over a bokeh circle.

when I'll get the camera tonight, I will preform a test with a bare bulb, a resolution chart and a subject, shooting 800 asa film mode on my lumix 14mm f2.5... will show the range from f22 to f.2.5 to show exactly when and how the clipping will effect the sensor.

Thank you too, i'm really curious to see what you find!

I think everyone now a just looking for it everywhere.... remember its a moving image NOT a still image. Most of the time it goes by without anyone noticing...

I completely disagree. It leaps out most strongly in motion. When those lanterns cross in front of the Orb-ing street lights of the previous video, the orb-defects pop between the lanterns and create a very distracting motion artifact.

BMD has a responsibility to fix this, especially after Brawley posted footage without these problems.

upon looking again at the footage of this link:
https://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/72972391

check 2:57 the person on the left whos crossing the road.

BMD has a responsibility to fix this, especially after Brawley posted footage without these problems.

I agree that BMD should fix this, but i don't see why JBs footage has anything to do with it? Anyone can post footage without this effect, it doesn't mean it isn't there! JB may just be a little more carefull and experienced at lighting, but the camera he used definitely has the same issue, just see how the car lights "eat" the lamp post in this shot:


(taken from "a little rain in my pocket")

And a number of other shots in this particular clip also show orb-like highlights, e.g. the lights on the harbour bridge.

Still i hope that this phenomenon is either related to only some (very fast) lenses, or can be cured by simple means (the BMCC sensor doesn't seem to be affected).

upon looking again at the footage of this link:
https://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic/videos/72972391

check 2:57 the person on the left whos crossing the road.

The whole clip is three minutes of evidence to this effect. Just look at the headlights! Never seen such cute cars, with their big round eyes...

Are all you drama queens shooting for Scientific American? Jimmy from Korea I am a big fan, keep up the good work.
This is a $1000 S16 camera for Lords sake. Truth is all of you would have paid $1500 for this camera if not for savvy BM marketing.
The footage out of this camera has me more excited about my future work than any camera on the market... and oh yes it's a grand.
To think I almost bought an Aaton Minima with no lens for $14k eight years ago.
A reminder, when you shoot and you do not like a blooming image... playback, reshoot or cut the offending frame out.
Looking back at Phil Blooms video on the sky thing, I noticed the blooming flash past her nose ONLY because y'all have been posting it for a week! Audiences do not freezeframe through a film. Get a grip the lot of you or cancel your order so I can get in line faster.

Oh for the days of a hair in the gate.

We are eagerly waiting for the much easier fix.

I should get my Pocket in a few days, then I can look into it.
I guess you have to be patient till then.

Are all you drama queens shooting for Scientific American? Jimmy from Korea I am a big fan, keep up the good work.
This is a $1000 S16 camera for Lords sake. Truth is all of you would have paid $1500 for this camera if not for savvy BM marketing.
The footage out of this camera has me more excited about my future work than any camera on the market... and oh yes it's a grand.
To think I almost bought an Aaton Minima with no lens for $14k eight years ago.
A reminder, when you shoot and you do not like a blooming image... playback, reshoot or cut the offending frame out.
Looking back at Phil Blooms video on the sky thing, I noticed the blooming flash past her nose ONLY because y'all have been posting it for a week! Audiences do not freezeframe through a film. Get a grip the lot of you or cancel your order so I can get in line faster.

Oh for the days of a hair in the gate.

Viewing from this perspective maybe you're right. Maybe it is not aimed for some kind of application. All I can say is that Philip Bloom footage is incredible. I had to cancel my order for several reasons but already did another one, expecting it for Oct-Nov(?)... I can wait. If it is something that we will have to live with, let's wait for BMD's responde to know. Meanwhile let's try to undestand it a bit more....

> Car lights off...

Screen shot 2013-08-28 at 3.16.15 PM.png (411.95 KiB) Viewed 22748 times

> Car lights on... (supposed to be yellow...)

Screen shot 2013-08-28 at 3.17.13 PM.png (465.34 KiB) Viewed 22748 times

(taken from "a little rain in my pocket")

That's a normal clip of highlights. They are irregular shaped, not perfectly round, and they have soft edges.

That's a hardware sensor problem, same as Fuji X10 CMOS. Hard edges, spherical white orbs.

Do you will claim your camera?

How do you will call product defect?

I really don't want blooming sensor. I understand it may be a bit ruin for BMD company if we all do it. When someone acts like a pro must bear the consequences of professional.

P.S. @BMD Next time hire more or better testers.

https://vimeo.com/72972391#t=154

Do you will claim your camera?

How do you will call product defect?

I really don't want blooming sensor. I understand it may be a bit ruin for BMD company if we all do it. When someone acts like a pro must bear the consequences of professional.

P.S. @BMD Next time hire more or better testers.

https://vimeo.com/72972391#t=154

I very much doubt a recall would "ruin" BMD. They are indeed very professional and have been around for a long time (founded in 1984). It's only now that they started also making cameras.

The Fuji CMOS issue occurred more at low ISOs like 100 or 200 with a bright aperture and slower shutter, than when stopped down and shooting at ISO 800 or 1600 so users might want to try shooting ISO 400/800 as a workaround.

I don't know the hardware reason for the white orbs, but if it is a spill of charge from one pixel to a neighbouring pixel that radiates out that could explain the appearance, where a small specular highlights extends all the way out to regions that aren't burnt at all, like on the car shot above.

Dear Blackmagic Design, what do you say?

CUSTOMER:
"Good job, nice sharp video, nice effects, especially I love those little orbs around mother in law head. So how much for it."

ME:
"500 USD"

CUSTOMER:
"Ah, and with no special effects like those orbs?"

ME:
"Orbs are for free - I also have a mother in law."

when I'll get the camera tonight, I will preform a test with a bare bulb, a resolution chart and a subject, shooting 800 asa film mode on my lumix 14mm f2.5... will show the range from f22 to f.2.5 to show exactly when and how the clipping will effect the sensor.

That sounds excellent. I hope this will put the whole thing into perspective. I know there are a few people here who think this is a non issue, but I am not one of them. Underexposing the rest of the image to negate the hotspots is not really an option in my opinion. Also I do wish BMD would chip in.

Are all you drama queens shooting for Scientific American?

Wow. First post, already offending. Or is it just Jimmy with a new account...?

Maybe you can't think of applications where this issue might ruin the shots, but that gives you no right to insult those who can.

That's a normal clip of highlights. They are irregular shaped, not perfectly round, and they have soft edges.

I think you are right, the soft edges are are atypical, it's probably not blooming this time. Yet i think the shape alone is no indicator: If the reason for what we discuss here really is some kind of sensor blooming, then point lights will produce circular blobs, while larger light sources will produce a spill puddle around their edges, roughly following the light sources' shape, enlarging the lit area.

Are all you drama queens shooting for Scientific American?

Wow. First post, already offending. Or is it just Jimmy with a new account...?

Maybe you can't think of applications where this issue might ruin the shots, but that gives you no right to insult those who can.

That's a normal clip of highlights. They are irregular shaped, not perfectly round, and they have soft edges.

I think you are right, the soft edges are are atypical, it's probably not blooming this time. Yet i think the shape alone is no indicator: If the reason for what we discuss here really is some kind of sensor blooming, then point lights will produce circular blobs, while larger light sources will produce a spill puddle around their edges, roughly following the light sources' shape, enlarging the lit area.

In all seriousness I like the term "spill puddle" a lot. It describes the effect very well. Since most highlights derive from a circular object, the sun being the biggest one of them all we see these more often, but I am more concerned with the wrap around effects of the "spill puddles" which engulf stuff that should be in front of them.

Screen Shot 2013-08-29 at 9.24.16 AM.png (633.34 KiB) Viewed 22409 times

In this second image the white "spill puddle" actually distorts the hand rail. It just doesn't look right and isn't right, when the rest of the image is so beautifully exposed.

Screen Shot 2013-08-29 at 9.24.39 AM.png (595.52 KiB) Viewed 22409 times

I canceled my pre order yesterday, someone may be happy about it as they'll move up in line... I was order # 4, paid in full for the camera, but just couldn't deal with BMD's silence on all of the above.

There is a lot of speculation, but it's not our job to figure it out.

I will more than likely buy it at a later date if the "blooming" issue is owned, and minimized some, but if not I'll be fine using something else. We all love the image the camera produces, but I don't think we should be so caught up and mesmerized so that we accept those big round blobs of white popping up through out our shots.

We are eagerly waiting for the much easier fix.

I should get my Pocket in a few days, then I can look into it.
I guess you have to be patient till then.

We are used to the delays and issues related to blackmagic pocket cinema camera by now.
All i am interested in is this "Much easier fix"