Blackmagic Forum

Hey,

I'm still waiting to get my BMCC, but in the meantime I still hasn't decided on the rig/setup how I could, and want to use it. I want to use this setup for a fiction film, so not for corporate videos or interviews. So the visual aesthetics of the setup should not be immaculate as it would be required in the previously mentioned types of shooting. So for my feature film I thought...
1, I would use the BMCC directly attached to the Manfrotto quickrelease plate, and thus on the video head and the tripod. I would fix my SWIT battery on the tripod somehow.
2, For handheld use I would unplug the battery from the camera, and detach the camera from the tripod, so basically I would have the bare camera body + lens for a mobile handheld setup.

What do you think of this solution?

I saw John Brawley's handheld demo of the BMCC on vimeo (http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2012/1 ... rty-blues/), and really loved the look he could get with the bare camera.
I feel that a shoulder rig restricts me, while a handheld setup like this, or a simple one like "mancam", would not.

So, tell me what you think!

Thanks!

What are you, a girl or something? Man up and get rid of the tripod. Just park the camera on a pile of bricks.

Seriously, I'm all for a bare bones set up. I bought so much crap for mine when I first got it and never use it. I don't know what I was thinking. Should have spent that money on more lights.

Also, a lot of folk don't like the BMC handles but I really like them for handheld. With a wideish lens you can control it quite nicely.

David wrote:What are you, a girl or something? Man up and get rid of the tripod. Just park the camera on a pile of bricks.

Seriously, I'm all for a bare bones set up. I bought so much crap for mine when I first got it and never use it. I don't know what I was thinking. Should have spent that money on more lights.

Also, a lot of folk don't like the BMC handles but I really like them for handheld. With a wideish lens you can control it quite nicely.

LOL

I thought of getting the BMC handles, but I couldn't find any video of it on youtube, so I'm kinda concerned about focusing with it... the handle seems to be too far from the lens...

To tell you the truth I'm tired of complicated things in every part of life. So I try to find out the simplest and most compact, yet usable solution for my camera and other parts of the system.

Yeah, hence the wide lens for the handles, cuz you won't be able to focus at the same time.

But you got the right idea with simple. Tilta rig and cage, marshall monitor, shoot35 matte box...3 grand and a total waste. But I'm an indoor cat. And I knew that so I was an idiot as well.

But they looked so cool....

As I'm a one man band on this project.... which basically means that I have to pack, unpack, carry and operate my gear.. so I'm going for a very simple setup because I'm not my own enemy I bought a SmallHD DP4 with EVF recently when I wanted to shoot this project on DSLR, but with the BMCC I would rather not use the SmallHD, try to live with the screen at the back of the camera.

For my DSLR I even considered to get the Tilta kit, with matte box, FF, cage, handles, etc... I went to the ebay page several times, but didn't push the button. I'm glad now

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Is there any way to attach the battery to the camera somehow in handheld setup? Or should I go with the plan in my original post, and with handheld use the internal battery?

You can mount the battery to the top of the camera. But the charge holds up ok. So if its not for extended periods of time you don't need the battery as long as theres somewhere to plug it in when your not filming.

The screen on the camera is fine indoors. If your going outside you'll get problems.

The handles are nice, but I wish BM had made a start/stop LANC control on them.

I bought the Ikan Blackfly. Same idea but with a bit a of cage to it. You can leave the top off and remove the rails and you'd basically have the same low profile setup. With this system, if you want to build up, you can. Strip down, you can. I'm very happy with mine.

I got the Edelkrone Modula 1 and the handgrip for my DSLR, but I only ended up only using the handgrip for hand held shots, and the rail base unit on tripod. Both the handgrip and rail sys. Use same baseplate, so I can slide camera off and on with ease. You can buy these parts separately.
I also like the minimalist approach, but once I started using a follow focus on my manual lenses, do not know how I got along for so long with out one for tripod work. Much more efficient for pulling a quick and accurate focus.
Also you are going to want to use that Small In EVF mode to,assist in getting an accurate focus, and low cam shots where getting to back of camera screen is awkward.

Your shooting a fiction film and are going to just slap the camera on a mounting plate? Controlled enviroments such as a film shoot is where this camera shines. If you put it on a tripod with no rail system are you assuming you will not need to use a mattbox of any kind with nd filter at all?

ungovernedreason wrote:Your shooting a fiction film and are going to just slap the camera on a mounting plate? Controlled enviroments such as a film shoot is where this camera shines. If you put it on a tripod with no rail system are you assuming you will not need to use a mattbox of any kind with nd filter at all?

I have very good screw in ND filters, so no mattebox. Matte box and follow focuses are very useful, practical and for most people very good looking stuff, but on a small no-budget film? They are big NO in my opinion.

I considered the IKAN Blackmagic baseplate, but what's the reason in my case? No matte box, no FF... Audio is recorded separately, lights are off-camera... Plus this IKAN baseplate stuff makes the changes between tripod and handheld setup more complicated, as there's no quick release mechanism in it....

sean mclennan wrote:The handles are nice, but I wish BM had made a start/stop LANC control on them.

I bought the Ikan Blackfly. Same idea but with a bit a of cage to it. You can leave the top off and remove the rails and you'd basically have the same low profile setup. With this system, if you want to build up, you can. Strip down, you can. I'm very happy with mine.

Thanks Sean!

I've seen it, but for me it looks bulky... I need to work fast, and move fast... Plus by the time it gets in Europe its way too expensive for me...

therussian2 wrote:

sean mclennan wrote:The handles are nice, but I wish BM had made a start/stop LANC control on them.

I bought the Ikan Blackfly. Same idea but with a bit a of cage to it. You can leave the top off and remove the rails and you'd basically have the same low profile setup. With this system, if you want to build up, you can. Strip down, you can. I'm very happy with mine.

Thanks Sean!

I've seen it, but for me it looks bulky... I need to work fast, and move fast... Plus by the time it gets in Europe its way too expensive for me...

Is there space for the fan to exhaust air on that?

Blien wrote:[Is there space for the fan to exhaust air on that?

That's what that rectangular hole is for.

therussian2 wrote:

ungovernedreason wrote:Your shooting a fiction film and are going to just slap the camera on a mounting plate? Controlled enviroments such as a film shoot is where this camera shines. If you put it on a tripod with no rail system are you assuming you will not need to use a mattbox of any kind with nd filter at all?

I have very good screw in ND filters, so no mattebox. Matte box and follow focuses are very useful, practical and for most people very good looking stuff, but on a small no-budget film? They are big NO in my opinion.

They're a big yes. No budget no excuse for less quality, unless works better for the story. Borrow/beg for extra equipment in my opinion.

Jules

Jules Bushell wrote:

therussian2 wrote:

ungovernedreason wrote:Your shooting a fiction film and are going to just slap the camera on a mounting plate? Controlled enviroments such as a film shoot is where this camera shines. If you put it on a tripod with no rail system are you assuming you will not need to use a mattbox of any kind with nd filter at all?

I have very good screw in ND filters, so no mattebox. Matte box and follow focuses are very useful, practical and for most people very good looking stuff, but on a small no-budget film? They are big NO in my opinion.

They're a big yes. No budget no excuse for less quality, unless works better for the story. Borrow/beg for extra equipment in my opinion.

Jules

Jules,
Why would the lack of matte box and follow focus would equal to compromise in quality? In my shooting scenario and in my story there's no particular need for these. I have hands, so I can focus with the lens itself, so no real need for an additional device like FF... And matte box... it serves two purpose: filters and light spills. I mentioned I have good filters, so don't need a matte box for that. Light spills? I can use small flags if I feel the need.

Believe me, a matte box and follow focus or the lack of them, if you're talented won't make any difference in the end result. Getting to the goal may be easier, but if you have the patience, talent and motivation for quality work, you don't need these accessories. I could cite you several other professionals, motion picture professionals, who don't use these items, but their work is the highest quality stuff.

So no offense, I see the use of these items, but I don't think that they are a necessary must for quality work.

therussian2 wrote:
Jules,
Why would the lack of matte box and follow focus would equal to compromise in quality? In my shooting scenario and in my story there's no particular need for these. I have hands, so I can focus with the lens itself, so no real need for an additional device like FF... And matte box... it serves two purpose: filters and light spills. I mentioned I have good filters, so don't need a matte box for that. Light spills? I can use small flags if I feel the need.

Believe me, a matte box and follow focus or the lack of them, if you're talented won't make any difference in the end result. Getting to the goal may be easier, but if you have the patience, talent and motivation for quality work, you don't need these accessories. I could cite you several other professionals, motion picture professionals, who don't use these items, but their work is the highest quality stuff.

So no offense, I see the use of these items, but I don't think that they are a necessary must for quality work.

While I agree with your sentiment, I would love for your to cite some examples.

Racking focus doesent really start in cinema till the late sixties and has only in the last 10 years or so become massively prominent. When it first started it was considered a fad and was actually disconcerting to many viewers. Much like the 'pull back zoom in' technique that drove us all nuts in the late 80's and early 90's. "OH MY GOD, LOOK! SOMETHING COLOSSAL IS HAPPENING!" Directors and DP's who have never racked focus are LEGION. The sudden rise to becoming normal for racking may coincide with the rise of dslr users who have been 'hiding' the videoish quality of their footage. Deep focus tends to make video look like, well, video. Hopefully new cameras like the BMC can one day help the little guys get back to deep focus which was the cinema standard for a century. So I don't think that suggesting someone isn't serious if they don't use a follow focus is a very nice or accurate thing to say.

But all that said, my friend, if your going outside PLEASE consider a matte box. Even if it's one of those cokin bellows screw ons you can fold up and stick in your back pocket. I really think you'll be glad you did.

And the IKAN handles Sean suggested look really cool. You could just take it straight off the tripod and be on your way. No muss, no fuss.The BMC handles are no good for that.

David wrote:Racking focus doesent really start in cinema till the late sixties and has only in the last 10 years or so become massively prominent. When it first started it was considered a fad and was actually disconcerting to many viewers. Much like the 'pull back zoom in' technique that drove us all nuts in the late 80's and early 90's. "OH MY GOD, LOOK! SOMETHING COLOSSAL IS HAPPENING!" Directors and DP's who have never racked focus are LEGION. The sudden rise to becoming normal for racking may coincide with the rise of dslr users who have been 'hiding' the videoish quality of their footage. Deep focus tends to make video look like, well, video. Hopefully new cameras like the BMC can one day help the little guys get back to deep focus which was the cinema standard for a century. So I don't think that suggesting someone isn't serious if they don't use a follow focus is a very nice or accurate thing to say.

But all that said, my friend, if your going outside PLEASE consider a matte box. Even if it's one of those cokin bellows screw ons you can fold up and stick in your back pocket. I really think you'll be glad you did.

How true! I'm not a shallow-depth-of-field-****... but most of the content creators right now are definitely are. This is why the DOF of the BMCC was never an issue for me. These guys who cry for the DOF as if it would be the only thing that makes something cinematic... probably never saw movies from old Hollywood, or some amateur stuff like Citizen Kane... By the way, was that shot on 2/3 video?

I'm going to shoot at exclusively night. So I don't think I'll need a matte box... But after tests done, and I feel the need I can grab a cheap Kamerar matte box and be happy with it...

therussian2 wrote:Jules,
Why would the lack of matte box and follow focus would equal to compromise in quality? In my shooting scenario and in my story there's no particular need for these. I have hands, so I can focus with the lens itself, so no real need for an additional device like FF... And matte box... it serves two purpose: filters and light spills. I mentioned I have good filters, so don't need a matte box for that. Light spills? I can use small flags if I feel the need.

The follow focus I've got can reverse the direction of my Nikon focus rings so it matches the other lenses.
It also gives much more accurate longer throw when turning the follow focus ring as opposed to the ring on my still lenses that may have short throws. I've put large gears on all my lenses. Plus you're not always fumbling around grabbing the lens when shooting, trying to focus moving targets in sometimes shallow DOF. I like life to be easy.

Obviously with a follow focus, the camera assistant can do the focus pulling if you have one.

I've also got hard stops on my follow focus so don;t need to watch markers when rack focusing, another cinema technique to use.

Jules