What caused the SSD to corrupt?

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hugh

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What caused the SSD to corrupt?

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 3:17 am

I just got my BMCC MFT a few days ago, as well as a Kingston 240GB HyperX SSD, which is listed by BM as being a recommend drive.

While at the park with my daughter shooting (RAW), the camera stopped recording, no matter how many times I tried. I thought that was odd, as I didn't think I'd shot enough to fill up the card. When I got home just now, I see that the card has 200gb available, there are folders for all my shots, but half of them are empty.
Then as I'm trying to throw away the empty folders, my macbook pro starts giving me an error that I don't have permission to do that. Next I get a warning in Disc Utility that the drive needs to be erased and reformatted and that I can copy files off of it but can't write anything to it.

I went through the last shot and noticed that the last ten dng's or so are corrupted and can't be opened. All the shots after that never made it onto the tape.

Really sucks to get home and realize half of your shots are missing. Mine were unimportant shots meant just to test out the camera, but I'd be really upset if this had been for something else.


Has this happened to anyone? I'm assuming this is a camera issue, as though it somehow corrupted the disk.
Last edited by hugh on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 4:06 am

How did you format the drive? What file system? What procedure did you use for installing the SSD in the BMCC?

Many variables here...give us some more info pls
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 4:23 am

sean mclennan wrote:How did you format the drive? What file system? What procedure did you use for installing the SSD in the BMCC?

Many variables here...give us some more info pls


I formatted it originally using Disk Utility as 'Mac OS Extended-Journaled'. I've done it several times now with other SSD's, no problems until now.
No real procedure for installing the SSD in the BMCC, you just insert the drive and turn on camera.
Been shooting both raw and prores for a few days and haven't had any issues until now.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 4:44 am

Briwil wrote:
sean mclennan wrote:How did you format the drive? What file system? What procedure did you use for installing the SSD in the BMCC?

Many variables here...give us some more info pls


I formatted it originally using Disk Utility as 'Mac OS Extended-Journaled'. I've done it several times now with other SSD's, no problems until now.
No real procedure for installing the SSD in the BMCC, you just insert the drive and turn on camera.
Been shooting both raw and prores for a few days and haven't had any issues until now.


Yeah...there is a procedure. Turning the camera off before inserting or removing the SSD. Apparently, many people are not observing this, which is why I asked.

Well, if you haven't had any problems with your other SSDs than I would think you have an SSD issue, not a BMCC issue. Have you run a health check on the SSD?
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 5:01 am

Ok, yes, making sure camera is off before inserting or taking out the disk, I had that covered.
I should scan the disk.

Maybe it's just a one-off fluke of an error, hopefully it won't happen again.
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Newermax

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:07 am

Hi, Briwil. Through which you connect your ssd to your computer?
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:11 am

Newermax wrote:Hi, Briwil. Through which you connect your ssd to your computer?


I'm using the Seagate GoFlex Thunderbolt adaptor to connect to my computer.

Though, again, the camera stopped letting me record while I was out shooting, so I'm positive the corruption happened in the camera, not when connected to the computer.
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:13 am

Sounds more like an SSD issue to me.

Have you been formatting the disk or just emptying the trash and deleting clips to re-use ?

Do you have another SSD or just the one ?

Many issues with corruption are often related to the dock / transfer process, but I think in this case the fact you noticed issues in the field excludes this.

jb
John Brawley
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:24 am

John Brawley wrote:Sounds more like an SSD issue to me.

Have you been formatting the disk or just emptying the trash and deleting clips to re-use ?

Do you have another SSD or just the one ?

Many issues with corruption are often related to the dock / transfer process, but I think in this case the fact you noticed issues in the field excludes this.

jb


True, maybe it is the SSD. And yeah, I've been just erasing the clips once done copying them over. I've only formatted the drive twice, when I first got it a few days ago, and then today. Is it necessary, or better practice at least, to reformat after each use?

I do have one other SSD, F115-something, but its not fast enough for raw, so its only been used for prores. It seems to work and transfer fine.

I'm guessing I'm just going to have to run some more tests (and bring the second ssd along just in case).
Just wanted to know if this this had happened to anyone else.
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adamroberts

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:30 am

John Brawley wrote:Have you been formatting the disk or just emptying the trash and deleting clips to re-use ?


Had the same thought. Only time I've had issues with the camera was when I deleted files rather than format SSD after coping the footage from the SSD.
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:30 am

adamroberts wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Have you been formatting the disk or just emptying the trash and deleting clips to re-use ?


Had the same thought. Only time I've had issues with the camera was when I deleted files rather than format SSD after coping the footage from the SSD.


Ok, good to know, I'll make a habit of that from now on.
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CaptainHook

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 12:30 pm

I think i must be very lucky, i use 4x intel 520 SSDs (240GB) and only every now and then reformat them and i constantly insert and remove them while the camera is on. No issues to date (touching wood).
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 12:37 pm

CaptainHook wrote:and only every now and then reformat them and i constantly insert and remove them while the camera is on. No issues to date


same here. Different ssd's
I just re-formatted 2 drives I had used all summer without a single re-format. These were specifically for pro-res recording..I wonder if that makes any difference at all, although I doubt it.
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 3:47 pm

Hmm, well thanks guys, that makes me feel mush less assured :oops:
I'll go do my tests and see what comes of it.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 4:23 pm

I had problems with SSDs not recording completely too, problem solved by reformatting, not erasing files/folders. After deleting files, and putting disk in BM, disk would only record for half the time it should have. It was,as if the deleted files were still there, and actually, the are. Deleting files just removes them from index, files are still on drive, causing issues. Reformatting the drive cleans the files off to the point that the Camera or Hyperdrive does not see them anymore, and will re record over the entire disk.

I have found BM system is more reliable when disks are reformatted each time, same with SD cards. I read somewhere from BM, you need to reformat drives,,rather than delete files/folders. Hyper drives have same issue.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 6:03 pm

CaptainHook wrote:I think i must be very lucky, i use 4x intel 520 SSDs (240GB) and only every now and then reformat them and i constantly insert and remove them while the camera is on. No issues to date (touching wood).


Dude....really? While the camera is on? Only a matter of time until this bites you in the butt...
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Andrew Deme

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostMon Sep 02, 2013 7:18 pm

SSD's are designed to be hot swapped and is part of the SATA 3.0 standard which no doubt the camera will conform to.

Is referenced in section 2.7 in the Intel 520 Product Specification :-

http://download.intel.com/newsroom/kits ... 325968.pdf

What I would be more worried about is the number of 'insertion/removal cycles' mentioned just above in section 2.6 in the document.....250 sounds like not much to me.

Havn't had a look at any other SSD's but for my money the weakness is the physical connector on these things.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostTue Sep 03, 2013 3:13 pm

Andrew Deme wrote:SSD's are designed to be hot swapped and is part of the SATA 3.0 standard which no doubt the camera will conform to.

Is referenced in section 2.7 in the Intel 520 Product Specification :-

http://download.intel.com/newsroom/kits ... 325968.pdf

What I would be more worried about is the number of 'insertion/removal cycles' mentioned just above in section 2.6 in the document.....250 sounds like not much to me.

Havn't had a look at any other SSD's but for my money the weakness is the physical connector on these things.


ok...um, couple of things.

1. You need a hot-swap connector. If you would like to read the SATA3 spec, there is a difference between your standard plug and a hot-swap plug. Just because Intel says their drive can function in a hot-swap setup, doesn't mean the bare drive is hot-swappable. Drives are normally installed into carriages that host the hot swap connections.

2. Any drive with only 250 insert/removal cycles is NOT designed to be hot swappable. Again, installing into a carriage negates this issue, but there is no carriage for the BMCC.

3. The power cycling procedure is stated by BM, on their camera, so why would you doubt that?

Not matter how you slice it, we are using SSDs in a manner they were not designed or intended to be used. Do your homework, find the drives that have the least issues and take care in the operation of the drives and you'll lessen the chance for failure.
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John Waldorff

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostTue Sep 03, 2013 7:04 pm

SSD issue obviously. Would have crashed your computer the same way. Had many of those with OCZ.
Go RMA and better let change the misleading title of this thread.
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD?

PostTue Sep 03, 2013 9:07 pm

John Waldorff wrote:SSD issue obviously. Would have crashed your computer the same way. Had many of those with OCZ.
Go RMA and better let change the misleading title of this thread.


No one has said anything here yet that would lead me to believe that its "obviously" an SSD issue.
It may be, but it may still be a camera issue. Disks don't change their read/write permissions, computers do, even ones inside of cameras.

I'll ad a question mark to the title.
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John Waldorff

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Re: BMCC wtf? What caused the SSD to corrupt?

PostTue Sep 03, 2013 9:49 pm

You should always prefer reformat to deleting files have the best performance and longevity as well (but that I think can be neglected.)
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostTue Sep 03, 2013 9:49 pm

sean mclennan wrote:
CaptainHook wrote:I think i must be very lucky, i use 4x intel 520 SSDs (240GB) and only every now and then reformat them and i constantly insert and remove them while the camera is on. No issues to date (touching wood).


Dude....really? While the camera is on? Only a matter of time until this bites you in the butt...


I've been doing the same for nearly a year now, four Sandisk 240Gb ssds. Reformat after EVERY use, do not delete files (to be honest that's sort of computing 101).

Never lost a frame, etc.

The drives are made to withstand shock, etc. It's more likely that you do something to it during the walk to the computer than it is by pulling the drive out while the camera's on.

In respons to OP: Your SSD is likely at fault, as I've seen other reports with Kingstons dropping frames etc.
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hugh

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostTue Sep 03, 2013 10:20 pm

Kholi wrote:Reformat after EVERY use, do not delete files (to be honest that's sort of computing 101).


Really, that's computing 101? I'm an idiot for not reformatting after every use? I think it's more computing 102 or 103.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostWed Sep 04, 2013 4:25 am

Kholi wrote:
sean mclennan wrote:
CaptainHook wrote:I think i must be very lucky, i use 4x intel 520 SSDs (240GB) and only every now and then reformat them and i constantly insert and remove them while the camera is on. No issues to date (touching wood).


Dude....really? While the camera is on? Only a matter of time until this bites you in the butt...


I've been doing the same for nearly a year now, four Sandisk 240Gb ssds. Reformat after EVERY use, do not delete files (to be honest that's sort of computing 101).

Never lost a frame, etc.

The drives are made to withstand shock, etc. It's more likely that you do something to it during the walk to the computer than it is by pulling the drive out while the camera's on.

In respons to OP: Your SSD is likely at fault, as I've seen other reports with Kingstons dropping frames etc.


mark my words...one of these days...
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CaptainHook

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostWed Sep 04, 2013 4:44 am

sean mclennan wrote:mark my words...one of these days...

I'm not saying it's good practice or saying people should do it (i don't think they should), but at the same time I could say "one of these days" about a lot things and be right.. My first BMCC had to replaced after a month or so as the sdi out failed. Same with my hyperdeck shuttle. Every drive in my computer that I never remove or touch you could say "one of these days" and you'd be right, that's why I have backups.

I was just added my experience in case it helped narrow down the cause and hoping others would do the same.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostWed Sep 04, 2013 10:17 am

mark my words...one of these days...


In 30 years, at the sharp end of IT, I have lost all of one hard drive which was recovered from a backup 20 mins later. I treat my SSD's like total crap and fully expect them to perform to their specs, shock, heat, read/write errors etc.....if I can't drop kick it across the floor then I won't own it in the first place.

I have no sympathy for electronics at all....least not the stuff that has been designed properly.

Heck, one day I went to recover a Siemens Nixdorf System which was caught in a fully blown fire and then drowned in water from the fire brigade....case, screen and keyboard were melted and burnt but the core hardware was still running, communicating and processing transactions. Pulled the drive, imaged it and went home.

Come to think of it, has been about 20 years since I bothered using a static strap.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostWed Sep 04, 2013 3:28 pm

Andrew Deme wrote:
mark my words...one of these days...


In 30 years, at the sharp end of IT, I have lost all of one hard drive which was recovered from a backup 20 mins later. I treat my SSD's like total crap and fully expect them to perform to their specs, shock, heat, read/write errors etc.....if I can't drop kick it across the floor then I won't own it in the first place.

I have no sympathy for electronics at all....least not the stuff that has been designed properly.

Heck, one day I went to recover a Siemens Nixdorf System which was caught in a fully blown fire and then drowned in water from the fire brigade....case, screen and keyboard were melted and burnt but the core hardware was still running, communicating and processing transactions. Pulled the drive, imaged it and went home.

Come to think of it, has been about 20 years since I bothered using a static strap.


Lol...static strap.

Last month, my Lacie big disk died. Unceremoniously and without warning. Sat on my desk, never moved, never abused, plugged into a solid power supply. Even for the quoted $2600, the data recovery people say they can't recover the data. They've had it for a month, still no success. **** happens.

Ideally you guys are right. You should be able to throw your Sandisks around, drop them, insert/remove with power running, etc. Basically, it's the same memory in their CF cards, which they used to duct tape to the middle of Broadway in January for 12 hrs to show how tough their cards were. I've used Sandisk Extreme cards exclusively since I went digital in 2003. I've never lost an image.

However, you don't need to be a math wizard to notice a trend of issues people are having with their SSDs. There are posts in many forums (intel/samsung/ocz) about SSDs being prone to reliability issues. Temperamental is putting it mildly. Seems like a more fragile system component than old spinners. So my bet was on the handling of the SSD.

BTW, I worked in IT 22 years ago, on Windows 2 machines and Mac fishbowls. What machines were you working on 30 years ago? They must have still used punch cards and 14" floppy disks!!
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: BMCC wtf? What caused the SSD to corrupt?

PostWed Sep 04, 2013 4:20 pm

xD Your first mistake was buying anything labeled LACIE, no wonder you're afraid of hard drives.

Just kidding, well not about the LaCie part: I'm surprised these people are still in business, their quality control has been awful for a decade or more, but I suppose that they are outdone by Western Digital. ... Eesh.

With the poster above you, I've had one drive fail in the last twenty years (knock on the same wood what Hook did), I actually dropped that drive like six times though so I'm not surprised, moving parts and all. SSDs should last through the apocalypse, they're kind of designed that way.

But yeah, now that I've said all this watch one of my drives die or something. xD
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CaptainHook

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostWed Sep 04, 2013 9:56 pm

sean mclennan wrote:So my bet was on the handling of the SSD.


My feeling is that this particular SSD would have gone down regardless, but it's all conjecture at this point. Either way i still agree, it pays to be safe and handle with care and follow manufacturers instructions.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: BMCC wtf? Corrupted the SSD

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 9:26 am

sean mclennan wrote:
Andrew Deme wrote:
mark my words...one of these days...


In 30 years, at the sharp end of IT, I have lost all of one hard drive which was recovered from a backup 20 mins later. I treat my SSD's like total crap and fully expect them to perform to their specs, shock, heat, read/write errors etc.....if I can't drop kick it across the floor then I won't own it in the first place.

I have no sympathy for electronics at all....least not the stuff that has been designed properly.

Heck, one day I went to recover a Siemens Nixdorf System which was caught in a fully blown fire and then drowned in water from the fire brigade....case, screen and keyboard were melted and burnt but the core hardware was still running, communicating and processing transactions. Pulled the drive, imaged it and went home.

Come to think of it, has been about 20 years since I bothered using a static strap.


Lol...static strap.

Last month, my Lacie big disk died. Unceremoniously and without warning. Sat on my desk, never moved, never abused, plugged into a solid power supply. Even for the quoted $2600, the data recovery people say they can't recover the data. They've had it for a month, still no success. **** happens.

Ideally you guys are right. You should be able to throw your Sandisks around, drop them, insert/remove with power running, etc. Basically, it's the same memory in their CF cards, which they used to duct tape to the middle of Broadway in January for 12 hrs to show how tough their cards were. I've used Sandisk Extreme cards exclusively since I went digital in 2003. I've never lost an image.

However, you don't need to be a math wizard to notice a trend of issues people are having with their SSDs. There are posts in many forums (intel/samsung/ocz) about SSDs being prone to reliability issues. Temperamental is putting it mildly. Seems like a more fragile system component than old spinners. So my bet was on the handling of the SSD.

BTW, I worked in IT 22 years ago, on Windows 2 machines and Mac fishbowls. What machines were you working on 30 years ago? They must have still used punch cards and 14" floppy disks!!


http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=210

http://www.urlesque.com/2008/04/03/appl ... computers/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apricot_Computers

They weren't the first computers I spent a bunch of time with, they were just the first that made sense to businesses....by the way, bought my first Apple less than 12 months ago.

Also these were the first 'hard disks' I came across and never had a head crash, which they were renowned for http://www.tpub.com/neets/book23/103a.htm

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