Blooming Sensor Update

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Kristian Lam

Blackmagic Design

  • Posts: 548
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:11 pm

Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 9:30 am

Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design
Offline

Aleksandar Bogdanov

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:21 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 9:51 am

Thank you for the update! At last! :)

But as not many people will believe that this is just a calibration related problem,
it will be highly desirable to see some footage of a calibrated Pocket camera which doesn't exhibit the orb effect.

Thanks!
Offline

Lee Mackreath

  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:52 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 9:54 am

I think we have seen this orb problem on all of the footage out there that has footage with overexposed areas in it..

So are all these units needing re calibrating in that case?

And when you say "We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras" does that mean you acknowledge the problem and/or you have seen the issue on SOME test cameras but not ALL of them?
Offline

Lee Mackreath

  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:52 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:00 am

And based on this answer...I assume production has not been halted at all on the BMPCC?

..therefore why up to now ,close to mid september, two months after shipping was started has there only been a few dozen cameras shipped out if there are no issues as far as you are concerned?
Offline

Chiaroscuro

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:09 am

Hello Kristian

My Pocket Camera does have the "blooming sensor issue". I stay in a small city in South Africa and my camera will probably need to be sent half way around the world to be re-calibrated.

Kristian Lam wrote:...it might be something that is calibration related.


Are you sure this will fix the problem? Admittedly, going through all this trouble for a fix that "might" work is unreasonable.

(Thanks however for your communication).
Last edited by Chiaroscuro on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
Jaco Spies
Visual Artist
Offline

Richard Squires

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:03 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:13 am

Thank you Kristian for the response. This is exactly what I needed to hear. Unfortunately this means I will be cancelling my order as I don't want to risk having to send it back for calibration.
Richard Squires
Broadcast Designer/Director
Melbourne Australia
Offline

Worzel Gummidge

  • Posts: 93
  • Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:13 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:17 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

And how do you do that when you have purchased the camera from a retailer thousands of miles away? Will BMD be subsidising postage? Sounds like a fob off.
Last edited by Worzel Gummidge on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Michel Rabe

  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:18 am

Thank you for the update!
Offline

StephenH

  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:53 am
  • Location: Australia

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:22 am

Hi Kristian,

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to getting the backorder soon. As always BM customer support is A One!

Steve.
Offline

bhook

  • Posts: 1024
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:19 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:31 am

Kristian Lam wrote:We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.


"Some"??? "Might"???? Apparently the only intelligent way to purchase a Pocket Camera is over the counter after shooting some test footage with it. Preordering (or even ordering online when they are in stock) sounds like a total gamble.
Offline

Ryan Jones

  • Posts: 297
  • Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:25 am
  • Location: South Australia

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:36 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design

Thanks Kristian, request sent.

How long is this expected to take?
Offline

StephenH

  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:53 am
  • Location: Australia

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 10:57 am

mhood wrote:
Preordering (or even ordering online when they are in stock) sounds like a total gamble.


Only if you do not get decent support from the distributor. All hardware can sometimes be faulty. Had a Nikon D800 with sensor hot pixel issue and the Australian distributor replaced with a brand new camera. That's what us Aussie's are about. And BM are no different.

Steve.
Offline

Lee Mackreath

  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:52 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 11:00 am

Imagine waiting so long though for the cam, only to get it and then find you need to send it back.. And then wait months again to get a new one!.. Or to get it recalibrated and then find the issue still exists!
Offline

Felix Steinhardt

  • Posts: 205
  • Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:45 pm
  • Location: Karlsruhe / Germany

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 11:02 am

The most important question: Will all new Pocket cameras have a recalibrated sensor?

Any why don´t you test if it is a calibration issue, before letting owners send their cameras back?

I don´t want to sound angry (happy BMCC owner), but this update is very disturbing.
Offline

Aleksandar Bogdanov

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:21 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 11:47 am

I'm thinking BMD have quietly halted production to fix this, so all this 'recalibration' story is just they don't have to admit another failure. But that doesn't matter for us if the pocket gets a patch and works as promised.

A week ago I got news from cvl that they were going to receive cameras shortly, but after finding the orb issue that didn't happen. Now expected date shifted to 27.09!
Offline
User avatar

adamroberts

  • Posts: 4493
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:27 am
  • Location: England, UK

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 11:49 am

Thanks for the update Kristian.

It seems then that all BMPCC cameras that have been shipped to customers will need re-calibrating. I've yet to see any footage that does not exhibit this odd behaviour.

Here is a quick test I just shot comparing how the BMCC EF and the BMPCC deal with the same situation with the same settings.


I guess I'll need to contact support and arrange to have my camera re-calibrated.
Attachments
BMCC %22Bloom%22 Test.jpg
BMCC "Bloom" Test
BMCC %22Bloom%22 Test.jpg (207.81 KiB) Viewed 25862 times
BMPCC %22Bloom%22 Test.jpg
BMPCC "Bloom" Test
BMPCC %22Bloom%22 Test.jpg (222.13 KiB) Viewed 25862 times
Last edited by adamroberts on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Mac Jaeger

  • Posts: 1810
  • Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:53 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 11:56 am

Thank you for the update!

Will pocket cinema cameras produced later this year be calibrated differently then before? Can we expect to see no white orbs on cameras delivered from, say, october on? Or does everyone who spots the orbs have to turn the camera in for (re)calibration himself? In other words: will you alter the manufacturing process and add some kind of additional "calibration control" in the process?

I also think that exemplary comparativ images before and after the calibration would help to regain some trust.

[edit]Thank you Adam for the comparison, that's the kind of confirmation i've been waiting for!
Offline

Richard Squires

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:03 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:10 pm

adamroberts wrote:Thanks for the update Kristian.

It seems then that all BMPCC cameras that have been shipped to customers will need re-calibrating. I've yet to see any footage that does not exhibit this odd behaviour.

Here is a quick test I just shot comparing how the BMCC EF and the BMPCC deal with the same situation with the same settings.


I guess I'll need to contact support and arrange to have my camera re-calibrated.


Thank you Adam for this. Perfectly demonstrates the problem. It's a great shame to be honest
Richard Squires
Broadcast Designer/Director
Melbourne Australia
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 320
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:14 pm

Thank you for the update.
Since I already have the camera and it is indeed blooming, I am happy to send it back to fix the issue.
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline

Tom Fuldner

  • Posts: 93
  • Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:31 am
  • Location: Raleigh, NC, USA

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:15 pm

"...support office." So for example, customers on the U.S. would ship cameras with blooming to BMD offices in Fremont, California? And recalibration would occur there?

Thanks,

Tom
Offline
User avatar

adamroberts

  • Posts: 4493
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:27 am
  • Location: England, UK

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:21 pm

Mac Jaeger wrote:Thank you Adam for the comparison, that's the kind of confirmation i've been waiting for!

Richard Squires wrote:Thank you Adam for this. Perfectly demonstrates the problem. It's a great shame to be honest


No problem. It is a shame as the cameras really do work so well together as you can see the colour science behind the 2 camera is so well matched.
Offline

Michel Rabe

  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:25 pm

Tom Fuldner wrote:"...support office." So for example, customers on the U.S. would ship cameras with blooming to BMD offices in Fremont, California? And recalibration would occur there?


I second that question
Also, statement says it might be calibration - before everyone sending their cameras in, how confident are you that recalibration will solve the issue?
Offline

Outerline

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:01 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:27 pm

i want to see footage that re-calibrated bmpcc's.
is it true? it will be ok? really?
and how about new bmpccs?
and cannot solved with firmware update? must send it to support?

hmm, still 'unconvinced'
Wonseok Jang
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 320
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:33 pm

stip wrote:
Tom Fuldner wrote:"...support office." So for example, customers on the U.S. would ship cameras with blooming to BMD offices in Fremont, California? And recalibration would occur there?


I second that question
Also, statement says it might be calibration - before everyone sending their cameras in, how confident are you that recalibration will solve the issue?




From the focus flang issue my experience was, sending the camera to CALI as a first stop. they couldn't do it there since it was a delicate operation so off my camera went to AUSi... 5 weeks all in all but it came back fixed.

I would think it will be the same here.
By the way... went on the support section of the BMD site for the number but that section is down right now... can anyone post the support number in Cali... I want to send my camera in.

thanks.


Eli hershko
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 320
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:38 pm

to me... in my opinion, all the cameras that are out there in users hand right now exhibit blooming.
I call anyone with a camera out there that does not have orb issue to come forward.
not a chance.
but if sending it in for "re calibration" will take care of the problem. I really don't care what they do and what they call it as long as it fixed...
Maybe they will swap sensors without telling us... who cares.
if its fixed,
its fixed.
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline

Rinaldo Lima

  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:23 am
  • Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 12:54 pm

So if it is a calibration problem they will correct this in production line, as it is been done with the 4K, right? So from a point orb-free cameras will hit the stores and the customers. Now the question: from what serial number on we can make sure a camera is already orb-free?? Will BMD let us know?

Again, words used like 'might' and 'some' are really disturbing indeed!
Offline

Philip_Lipetz

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:33 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:11 pm

Rinaldo Lima wrote:So if it is a calibration problem they will correct this in production line, as it is been done with the 4K, right? So from a point orb-free cameras will hit the stores and the customers. Now the question: from what serial number on we can make sure a camera is already orb-free?? Will BMD let us know?

Again, words used like 'might' and 'some' are really disturbing indeed!


As is being a beta test bed that has revealed problems two times. Why does our team always have such a early place in the BM wait list?
Offline

Richard Squires

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:03 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:13 pm

I would like to see re-calibrated footage. I would also like to see the footage on their test cameras where it isn't an issue. This is such a subjective problem as we have seen some people aren't bothered by it whilst some are. And of course the Blackmagic technicians are the same people who let this out of the door in the first place. I am not saying I don't believe them, I just want to see the footage myself to make my own judgement. There are more examples we are starting to see of this issue as the cameras get into users hands, and it does seem that the issue is consistent across these units. Of course I don't know why I am still here since I cancelled the order. I am still interested in the camera, just hope I can see evidence that negates my negative opinion of it at the moment.
Richard Squires
Broadcast Designer/Director
Melbourne Australia
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 320
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:31 pm

here is what I am thinking and I let my imagination run since I am a filmmaker after all.
lets imagine that this is more then re calibration. lets just say that this is also a sensor issue story exactly like the 4k... testing done on a prototype and manufacturing replaces the sensor on mass production without telling BMD...
now they have to issue a recall but they don't want to look like rookies for the third time...
so they call it re calibration. whatever!
who cares.
I really like this camera and if that fixes the issue... they can call it whatever they want or do the camera whatever is needed as long as it comes back fixed... I will be happy!
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline
User avatar

josephrose

  • Posts: 127
  • Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:16 pm
  • Location: Philadelphia-ish

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:32 pm

Theres also nothing stopping them from getting your camera, checking some calibration, and saying "Yep, it's fine. Enjoy!" and sending it back with this issue. Maybe this is just what this camera is.

Next year, when they lower the price to $699 and release Pocket Camera v2, maybe it will have a better sensor.
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 320
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:34 pm

josephrose wrote:Theres also nothing stopping them from getting your camera, checking some calibration, and saying "Yep, it's fine. Enjoy!" and sending it back with this issue. Maybe this is just what this camera is.

Next year, when they lower the price to $699 and release Pocket Camera v2, maybe it will have a better sensor.


Now if that happens I will be really mad!!!!
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline

Brian@202020

  • Posts: 119
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:35 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


Kristian,

Thanks for the update. I have some questions: First, if I keep my order (hoping BMD can fix the orb issue if my BMPCC has one), it has the orb issue, I send it back, I get it back, and it's still not acceptable, will I still be able to return it? There will likely be so many returns that BMD could potentially have it in their possession during the entire 30 day return policy that most resellers have. Will you work with the resellers on this if it ends up being an issue? Also who will pay for the return shipping for BMD to fix the problem if it exists? It is a factory defect and we shouldn't have to pay return shipping on a factory defect.
Offline

Austin Reed

  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:18 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:45 pm

I would like to see footage of the 'fixed' or 'calibrated' bmpcc sensor before I send mine in.
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 320
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 1:52 pm

I just received my RMA and Blackmagic didn't include shipping.
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline

Rinaldo Lima

  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:23 am
  • Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 2:01 pm

josephrose wrote:Theres also nothing stopping them from getting your camera, checking some calibration, and saying "Yep, it's fine. Enjoy!" and sending it back with this issue. Maybe this is just what this camera is.

Next year, when they lower the price to $699 and release Pocket Camera v2, maybe it will have a better sensor.

It seems josephrose summarized it all. The discussion now will be, how to avoid it? List of lenses that prone to bloom, and there it goes. The update is all disappointment at this stage. I have more questions, which will be the term for doing that, one year? Will it be included in the FAQ section? WHEN are we going to see re-calibrated footage?
Offline

Brian@202020

  • Posts: 119
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 2:11 pm

Eli hershko wrote:I just received my RMA and Blackmagic didn't include shipping.


Fight it. it's a factory defect. You shouldn't have to pay.
Offline

MagicAndMayhem

  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:16 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 3:03 pm

Happens to all sensors = not our fault
Severe overexposure = user error
Doesn't happen to us = must be you
Send it to us on your dime and we may or may not fix it.

What a mess.

Still no solid statement of support behind their product.

And if you are not a member of this forum, you have no idea that it's a "calibration" issue and to send it back to maybe get your camera fixed.

I keep wanting to believe but It gets harder and harder.
Last edited by MagicAndMayhem on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

bendermac

  • Posts: 58
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:51 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 3:24 pm

a calibration might help? :roll:

i better wait for the pcc 2, because i have feeling bmd wont be able to fix the problems anytime soon.

it's such a shame that bmd ones more shows incompetence in their support - i'm still waiting for over a year to get 1080p60 capture enabled for my intensity shuttle tb.

the pcc is for many a a camera dream come true and yet bmd screws things up. if last years release of the cinema cam wasn't disaster enough, but lets repeat it with the pcc. well done bmd, well done.
Offline

Brian@202020

  • Posts: 119
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 3:25 pm

Yeah they need to take responsibility for sending customers products that were defective.
Offline

David Jorgensen

  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:47 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 3:59 pm

Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.


Could this be a little more vague and unhelpful? This isn't an update. Is it a calibration issue or not? Do you have any cameras that do not have the issue? Will sending the camera in fix the issue or not? Come on, this is ridiculous. Give us some concrete, usable information, people have work depending on these cameras working correctly, we don't have time to spend mailing it in for something that "might" work.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7543
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 4:16 pm

Eli hershko wrote:here is what I am thinking and I let my imagination run since I am a filmmaker after all.
lets imagine that this is more then re calibration. lets just say that this is also a sensor issue story exactly like the 4k... testing done on a prototype and manufacturing replaces the sensor on mass production without telling BMD...
now they have to issue a recall but they don't want to look like rookies for the third time...
so they call it re calibration. whatever!
who cares...


Great to have an active imagination! But I believe Kristian Lam when he explains it requires recalibrating the sensor without stating precisely why some test cameras don't show the issue. If it does turn out to be because the most or all of the current production sensors are indeed different than the early sensors BMD received, they likely will share that with us. Why? Because Grant Petty owned up to that very reason for recalibrating the sensors on the BMPC4K. It's very frustrating for BMD and the customers, but it happens. There is always the possibility of changes in early production as things are improved or made in higher volumes and intentionally or inadvertently the later sensors turn out to be different than the prototypes and early shipments.

A great sigh of relief when this is over and it is very unfortunate for those who are affected beyond question, but one day it will be history as you use the Pocket camera as you intended. Well, that takes a few more updates to be sure including the raw recording functionality in the next firmware update and improvement of audio capabilities, etc.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

christian.himmelstrand

  • Posts: 151
  • Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:47 pm
  • Location: Sweden

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 4:29 pm

litemakr wrote:
Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.


Could this be a little more vague and unhelpful? This isn't an update. Is it a calibration issue or not? Do you have any cameras that do not have the issue? Will sending the camera in fix the issue or not? Come on, this is ridiculous. Give us some concrete, usable information, people have work depending on these cameras working correctly, we don't have time to spend mailing it in for something that "might" work.


I think it's easy to understand.
Proably the beta / test / prototype cameras have different sensor versions from sensor manufacture with different need of calibration.

This is not BMD's fault, this is the sensor manufacture who has made a mess, just like with the 4K Camera sensors.
Offline

Rinaldo Lima

  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:23 am
  • Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 4:36 pm

Eli hershko wrote:I just received my RMA....


Good suggestion for a new thread, like 'I sent my Pocket in for blooming sensor recalibration and...'
Offline

ronhaley

  • Posts: 186
  • Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 4:37 pm

I believe at this stage that BM is in a lot of trouble. They have to have lots of inventory and committed orders to suppliers. Cash flow must be an issue. Sure, they have an excellent back order situation, but now there are significant questions regarding their ability to deliver either the BMPC or the BMPCC. Cutting the price of the BMCC certainly didn't help their bottom line, but may have helped their inventory position and therefore cash flow.

The response to the blooming issue was dreadful. I can't believe anyone is going to take delivery based on that statement. And the fact that there has been no footage on the BMPC raises real questions on where it's at, especially given that they provided footage from the other cameras well in advance of shipment.
Last edited by ronhaley on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Offline

kenandrews

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:29 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 4:40 pm

As someone who has the BMPCC on order, I find this update completely useless. If you are going to wait over a week to get your ducks in a row before making your "official" reply, you are expected to say something definitive and informative. This update sounds like it was written by a teenager. No actual facts or supportive examples, just vaguely blaming your users in a somewhat underhanded way, while making sure you have promised nothing. Add to this that people who have to ship their cameras back for a very clear defect, must do so at their OWN expense, and well, this is not what I expected from this company.

Disappointed.
Offline

Lukasz

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 5:19 pm

Felix Steinhardt wrote:The most important question: Will all new Pocket cameras have a recalibrated sensor?

+1 can´t belive bmd dont feel the need to make this point clear as so many people waiting in preorder.
Offline

Chiaroscuro

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 5:20 pm

Maybe those of us who have received our cameras can make a little deal with Blackmagic: in exchange for returning our cameras, they send us a BMCC 2.5k, you know, as a loan until everything is sorted out. Then, if they manage to fix the problem, we simply return their camera and live happily ever after. However, if the problem proves to be unsolvable, well, we keep the 2.5k camera! Easy.

Off to never never land...
Jaco Spies
Visual Artist
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 6957
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 5:26 pm

I have one of the BMPCC's from the first "dealer" shipments, so far I have only got "orb" blooming issue with one lens. Still testing some of the situations that have been posted. I like the latest example above, will try that test with a 1K spot, that should do the trick for specular highlights. I will use same lens, and If I get same results, back goes the camera for "re calibration". Simple as that

[You know, most warranty repairs that I have had to return equipment for was/ usually at buyers (my) expense. Return shipping on company. Both share in shipping costs, Sounds fair to me. If you return camera to retailer, you have to pay that shipping too. Seems to me, getting camera "fixed" is the important thing here. On BMCC returned, who paid that shipping? In some rare cases, return shipping is prepaid.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline

Philip_Lipetz

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:33 am

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 5:41 pm

Christian H wrote:
litemakr wrote:
Hi guys,

As promised, here’s an update on the ‘blooming’ sensor topic.

All sensors, be it CCD or CMOS, will have a ‘blooming’ effect when during severe overexposure, the pixel is over saturated and excessive charges overflow to neighbouring pixels. It just looks different depending on the sensor type.

We are not seeing this on some of our test cameras so it might be something that is calibration related. Please contact your nearest support office and we’ll run another calibration on the camera.


Could this be a little more vague and unhelpful? This isn't an update. Is it a calibration issue or not? Do you have any cameras that do not have the issue? Will sending the camera in fix the issue or not? Come on, this is ridiculous. Give us some concrete, usable information, people have work depending on these cameras working correctly, we don't have time to spend mailing it in for something that "might" work.


I think it's easy to understand.
Proably the beta / test / prototype cameras have different sensor versions from sensor manufacture with different need of calibration.

This is not BMD's fault, this is the sensor manufacture who has made a mess, just like with the 4K Camera sensors.


Of course it is BM's fault, they did not test properly.
Offline

Steve Holmlund

  • Posts: 265
  • Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:30 pm
  • Location: Montara, California

Re: Blooming Sensor Update

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 5:58 pm

As a potential buyer, here are my questions:

1. How many (or what % of) cameras at BMD with the problem were corrected by recalibration?
2. Were any cameras at BMD with the problem not corrected by recalibration? If so, what %?
3. Are all units yet to be shipped being confirmed to not exhibit the problem?
4. Is there a serial number range for units (i.e. shipped prior to this announcement) that may exhibit the problem?
5. Are distributors being asked to test and/or recalibrate any units in their current inventory before fulfilling any more orders?

Submitted with all due respect.
Steve Holmlund
Hobbyist
BMPCC, vintage Rokkor lenses, Olympus 12-40, Panasonic 100-300 II
Next

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ryan Payne, Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests