Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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marta reis

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Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 11:51 am

When will Blackmagic start to fulfill the pre-orders for this camera? I meant real customers orders! Are you producing enough cameras or just demo units for special clients?

Until now we saw Blackmagic delivering a unit or two to dealers or rental houses around the world. We saw renowned "cinematographers" getting more than one while others are still waiting for their unit... lack of respect!

CVP (the biggest dealer in Europe) has a giant wish list and cannot inform their customers when will their start to ship the camera.

I'm a very patient customer but I have reached my limit on this issue. What Blackmagic is offering with this cameras it's revolutionary but what a brand cannot do or shouldn't do, it's to show up at NAB with a concept and try to sell that concept to their customers and followers like if they already have a product. We bought the concept... where is the product?

How many units are ready to ship (worldwide)?... And how many do you produce in a day?

Too many questions without answer and a brand earning a bad reputation!

I would recommend radical changes!!!
Last edited by marta reis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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MMedia

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 12:03 pm

I understand your frustration and yes, there seems to be a bit of 'que jumping' going on in some cases. (But not all)

I ordered from CVP the minute the web link went live on the 8th and received my camera just under two weeks ago, so regular customers are receiving them.

At least you wont have to return your camera for calibration like i will have to. 8-)
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Star Trak

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 12:15 pm

The whinging on these forums is out of control.
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 1:00 pm

Be careful..the last topic I created about this was moved out of this forum and into the "off topic" section.

The situation is crazy...John Brawley, Phillip bloom..they have two BMPCC's!..and some of us none.

It has been reports that only 25 BMPCCs have arrived on the UK shores since July...f that is not a distribution issue I don't know what is.

In fact I don't think any new BMPCC's have been delivered to anywhere in about a week now...complete silence from BMD as usual on this....
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Star Trak wrote:The whinging on these forums is out of control.


The whinging on these forums is completely justified and guess what?..it would not happen if we actually had some communication about this..

Not one person can deny that distribution is going slow..too slow in fact...but some simple stats and facts from BMD would alleviate everyone's whinging and concerns...

They don't even have to inform us!...why don't they inform the re-sellers and at least they can then give us updates?

jigsaw24 and cvp (both the biggest re-sellers of BMD stuff in the uk) DO NOT HAVE A CLUE when they will receive the next BMPCC...NOT A CLUE... how can this be??
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Jules Bushell

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 1:28 pm

Please everyone, use your REAL NAME! Have the courage and respect to do this.

This forum is a community and we use real names here! This is something that BMD, who own this forum, insist on too.

Jules
Jules Bushell
url: www.nonmultiplexcinema.com
url: www.filmmeansbusiness.com
url: www.blurtheline.co.uk
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Vince Gaffney

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 1:55 pm

Jules Bushell wrote:Please everyone, use your REAL NAME! Have the courage and respect to do this.

This forum is a community and we use real names here! This is something that BMD, who own this forum, insist on too.

Jules


+1
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:01 pm

Let the moderators worry about things like that!

can we keep this on topic please?
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Dmitry Kitsov

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:03 pm

It was moved because it is indeed off topic as it had little to do with actual cinematography. As this forum lacks "Whining about Black magic distribution and shipping practices" sub forum, the off topic sub forum is the best fit.
Dmitry Kitsov
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:07 pm

Dmitry Kitsov wrote:It was moved because it is indeed off topic as it had little to do with actual cinematography. As this forum lacks "Whining about Black magic distribution and shipping practices" sub forum, the off topic sub forum is the best fit.



Whining....this is not...it is valid questions and concerns about our pre-orders that we have yet to receive and have no communication about?

I will continue to "whine" until I get some information.
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Dmitry Kitsov

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:20 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:
Dmitry Kitsov wrote:It was moved because it is indeed off topic as it had little to do with actual cinematography. As this forum lacks "Whining about Black magic distribution and shipping practices" sub forum, the off topic sub forum is the best fit.



Whining....this is not...it is valid questions and concerns about our pre-orders that we have yet to receive and have no communication about?

I will continue to "whine" until I get some information.

While the question might be valid it relates to BMD business practices, and has no relation to cinematography.
Dmitry Kitsov
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Gan Eden

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:28 pm

martex wrote:When will Blackmagic start to fulfill the pre-orders for this camera? I meant real customers orders! Are you producing enough cameras or just demo units for special clients?

Until now we saw Blackmagic delivering a unit or two to reference dealers or rental houses around the world. We saw renowned "cinematographers" getting more than one while others are still waiting for their unit... lack of respect!

CVP (the biggest dealer in Europe) has a giant wish list and cannot inform their customers when will their start to ship the camera.

I'm a very patient customer but I have reached my limit on this issue. What Blackmagic is offering with this cameras it's revolutionary but what a brand cannot do or shouldn't do, it's to show up at NAB with a concept and try to sell that concept to their customers and followers like if they already have a product. We bought the concept... where is the product?

How many units are ready to ship (worldwide)?... And how many do you produce in a day?

Too many questions without answer and a brand earning a bad reputation!

I would recommend radical changes!!!


+10
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Gan Eden

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:29 pm

Star Trak wrote:The whinging on these forums is out of control.

Meh...
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Gan Eden

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:30 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:The situation is crazy...John Brawley, Phillip bloom..they have two BMPCC's!..and some of us none.

Disgraceful. If you're a "name" then you're top dog.
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Gan Eden

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:31 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:Let the moderators worry about things like that!

can we keep this on topic please?

+1
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Gan Eden

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:32 pm

Dmitry Kitsov wrote:
Lee Mackreath wrote:
Dmitry Kitsov wrote:It was moved because it is indeed off topic as it had little to do with actual cinematography. As this forum lacks "Whining about Black magic distribution and shipping practices" sub forum, the off topic sub forum is the best fit.



Whining....this is not...it is valid questions and concerns about our pre-orders that we have yet to receive and have no communication about?

I will continue to "whine" until I get some information.

While the question might be valid it relates to BMD business practices, and has no relation to cinematography.

Funny how a camera isn't related to cinematography. :lol:
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DanAbrams

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:38 pm

There's an easy, market-based solution for this: charge more for the first few BMPCC's and then drop the price after a few months, when supply is less constrained.

Those who need the latest and greatest right away, or those for whom the value of the camera is higher (such as professional DP's who want to incorporate it right away) will pay more. Blackmagic will pocket an extra amount on the first few cameras.

Blackmagic can even tell customers, it'll be $1500 for the first few months and then drop, four months later, to $995. If you're willing to pay the extra $505, you can have it first!

I see a number of people on ebay and here in new york selling their unopened bmpcc's for about $1300, so that's probably a natural price point. Plus, if consumers are told that the price will drop in 4 months, there'll be less incentive for scalpers to pre-order as many as possibly as soon as they can and resell on Ebay or craigslist with a markup. Instead of them capturing the extra $300 between demand and supply, Blackmagic would!

Apple did exactly this with the original iPhone. They released it for $600, then lowered the price when supply constraints eased up. As a result, you could go into the store the week of it's launch and buy one, without a reservation.
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marta reis

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:38 pm

I see no reason to move this thread to the "off-topic" section. I was respectful as always!

You call this "whinging"?... for god sake! I'm not even frustrated as someone said. I bet they would make it this time but I knew this could happen.

I respect the effort and hard work of Blackmagic team to get this camera out. I know they might be fighting against several difficulties in production which can be considered normal. What truly disappoints me it's the way they lead the process with the customers and the lack of news.

At some point, they will learn that we can wait and be happy as long as we know what is going on. Social networking could've play the perfect role there.

They are one step ahead in technology and one step behind in communication!

I hope people here in the forum (including moderators) shows respect for free speech debate. If you want to move the topic to another section, please create a new section in the "General" board, were questions like this can and should be answer. That's what we the customers demand!

Take one step further ;)
Last edited by marta reis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:13 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Dmitry Kitsov

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:40 pm

Gan Eden wrote:Funny how a camera isn't related to cinematography. :lol:

Yes, just like Home Depot wood saw return polices are related to the art of carpentry.
Dmitry Kitsov
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Jules Bushell

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 2:47 pm

DanAbrams wrote:There's an easy, market-based solution for this: charge more for the first few BMPCC's and then drop the price after a few months, when supply is less constrained.

They did this already with the BMCC cameras, dropped a $1000 soon after retailers had them in stock.

Jules
Jules Bushell
url: www.nonmultiplexcinema.com
url: www.filmmeansbusiness.com
url: www.blurtheline.co.uk
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timhashko

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 4:37 pm

Last I read on this forum, people who preordered from B&H on April 8 around 3pm were getting their Pocket cameras a week or so ago. I'm still 10 hours away in the queue, and not really holding my breath that I'd be getting mine any time soon.

Does it feel fishy that a company that has been shipping since July hasn't even been able to fulfill first day's pre-orders? It sure does.

But I'm trying to put myself in their shoes and not be too critical. I'm sure they are well aware of the situation and are trying to make us happy as quickly as they can. I don't see any reason for them to be delaying the shipments just to piss us off.

As far as their communication goes, would we really trust any dates they throw at us at this point? I will argue that the best course of action is to forget the camera even exists, and then be pleasantly surprised when it unexpectedly arrives around Christmas time (fingers crossed).
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Stefan Longin

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 8:38 pm

DanAbrams wrote:There's an easy, market-based solution for this: charge more for the first few BMPCC's and then drop the price after a few months, when supply is less constrained..


That's what happened with the 2,5 CC. Let's wait what happens with the price of the Pocket CC.

I guess there is some good reason for BMD to start with small bunches of production.
They are new to camera manufacturing business and imagine if they start to produce all
pre-ordered camera at the first flush and realize a big issue (which could also be from a
supplier which is new to the business too). It could be the end of camera manufacturing or
even worse . Therefore it's better to have people waiting for the camera..
Just my 2p.
S. Long
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 9:43 pm

One. The first day orders might be considerably more than what was ordered during the following days.

Two. There was an issue. They may not have told anyone, but it's very well possible that they stopped the assembly lines the moment the white orbs got their attention.

Three. It's only been a couple of weeks since they started shipping. Even without any delays the pipelines to the end customers need a while to fill up.
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Frazer Bradshaw

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 10:05 pm

Sadly, this is the new reality for Moore's Law cameras. RED can probably be blamed for starting the "cutting edge tools with radically over-optimistic time lines" problem. BMD are not excused and neither is RED or any of the absurd number of technology companies that are playing this game at our expense, but this is the reality, and crying about it does nothing beyond proving that you've not been in the game long enough to know that this bull is part of the game.

And YES, the big dogs are getting the tools first and getting preferential treatment. Of course they are. They add huge value to the brands they are working with, and BMD are plenty smart enough to want to have their products seen in the hands of those who command respect. And honestly, many of those who are getting preferential treatment have earned preferential treatment by making work that is well respected (maybe not by you or me in particular, but by the larger audience). And again, this is how the game is played: We pay dues and earn our way up the food chain. If you're not getting any preferences, stick around and bust your ass for a couple more decades.

Professionalism means understanding the game, playing it to the best of your ability and not complaining at the unjustness of the broken system. Sure you can and are justified to try to change it, but complaining on user forums ain't gunna get anyone their way. In fact, some forums, which I won't name, are known for keeping a black list and banning users they don't like, so weigh the value you'll get against the fact that powerful people control these systems and can do what they like.

Just sayin...
Frazer Bradshaw
Director of Photography
Oakland, CA
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Gan Eden

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Scam?

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 11:29 pm

Dmitry Kitsov wrote:
Gan Eden wrote:Funny how a camera isn't related to cinematography. :lol:

Yes, just like Home Depot wood saw return polices are related to the art of carpentry.

I have no idea what you are talking about, we don't have Home Depot in the country I live.
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James Hamid

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 2:32 am

There has been alot of issue's with this camera, most importantly the blooming sensor issue, so the later that you get it the better.
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theycallmefolsom

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Re: Pocket Revolution or Pocket Delay?

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 3:41 am

I ordered mine at the end of May,,,,,,so theres no hope for me. I hope it comes before december is over. I mean one of the biggest reasons for switched the sensor was to be able to mass produce product. So was that statement just some PR stunt for BMD. I dont get it.

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