WEIRD SPOTS

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Max Normandin

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WEIRD SPOTS

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 11:25 pm

So this forum is loaded with angry customers, with dysfunctional cameras and all sorts of problems.

Naturally, for every angry customer on this forum, I assume there's 5 happy customers out there. We don't hear of them because they have nothing to complain about. Their cameras work just fine.

I thought I would be one of them... I was wrong.


Just got my BMCC MFT 2 weeks ago. I have yet to receive my SSD cards so I haven't yet been able to record anything with it. But I've been taking shots just for fun.

Now today I noticed SOMETHING THAT FREAKS ME OUT. Weird spots on the images.

I can't see them when I'm at f2, f4, etc. But when I get to f8 and up, I start noticing these BLACK/GREY SPOTS on the image.

It's NOT the lense, because I've switched lenses and the spots remain there.

When I first noticed this issue, I only saw 1 spot on the bottom right corner of the screen. I investigated, and that SPOT disappeared but 4 NEW SPOTS now appeared on the left side of the screen.

Since this has NOTHING to do with the lenses, i'm thinking the sensor. Is it just dust, moisture?

Or am I one of those having a problem with my BMCC?????
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MagicAndMayhem

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 11:27 pm

Post an image. Maybe someone here has some insight.
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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostWed Sep 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Don't have an SSD so I can't record anything. I could get a camera a take a picture of the screen itself, but the screen is pretty reflective si I'm not sure how well the spots would translate on the pic...

Worst come to worst I'll try... just kinda depressed right now lol
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adamroberts

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 12:04 am

Sounds like dust on the sensor.

Have you tried using a blower bulb (Rocket Blower) so clean the sensor?
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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 3:02 am

Tried blowing air on the sensor. Still have 4 spots. They are only visible when I'm shooting at something very very bright. At f8 (just barely visible), at f11 (more visible), etc. Almost feel like it's smudge on the sensor... but I don't know how to clean it beside shooting air at it.

I don't know.
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Star Trak

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 4:01 am

I'd bet money on it being dust on the sensor as they are appearing only appearing when you stop down your aperture. This happens to ALL cameras and is just part of general maintenance (getting your sensor cleaned) The question becomes why do you have a BMCC if you don't know that?
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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 4:06 am

Star Trak wrote:I'd bet money on it being dust on the sensor as they are appearing only appearing when you stop down your aperture. This happens to ALL cameras and is just part of general maintenance (getting your sensor cleaned) The question becomes why do you have a BMCC if you don't know that?


uhhh
Last edited by Max Normandin on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Star Trak

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 4:14 am

Max Normandin wrote:
Star Trak wrote:I'd bet money on it being dust on the sensor as they are appearing only appearing when you stop down your aperture. This happens to ALL cameras and is just part of general maintenance (getting your sensor cleaned) The question becomes why do you have a BMCC if you don't know that?


hey thanks for the advice star ******,

i've used compressed air 5-6 times, still no results.


Do you think Service Centers like Nikons or Canons only use compressed air during a sensor clean? The answer is "no" incase you were wondering, not all dust/grit whatever it may be will come off with just a blow of air. Please return your camera and buy a 550D.
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DavidJames

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 5:05 am

Star Trak wrote:
Max Normandin wrote:
Star Trak wrote:I'd bet money on it being dust on the sensor as they are appearing only appearing when you stop down your aperture. This happens to ALL cameras and is just part of general maintenance (getting your sensor cleaned) The question becomes why do you have a BMCC if you don't know that?


hey thanks for the advice star ******,

i've used compressed air 5-6 times, still no results.


Do you think Service Centers like Nikons or Canons only use compressed air during a sensor clean? The answer is "no" incase you were wondering, not all dust/grit whatever it may be will come off with just a blow of air. Please return your camera and buy a 550D.



Really, thats the type of responses this forum has. Pretty sad.
Compressed air is a good start but for really stuck spots you will need a proper filter cleaning swab and cleaning fluid. You are actually cleaning the protective glass in front of the sensor.
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Gan Eden

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 6:11 am

Brand new cameras should NOT have dirty sensors. What is going on?
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DavidJames

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 6:33 am

Gan Eden wrote:Brand new cameras should NOT have dirty sensors. What is going on?


He's been using it for 2 weeks, spots will happen
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John Brawley

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 6:34 am

Sounds like sensor dust.

Something that occurs with all cameras.

You can always find it in the right conditions, even on freshly cleaned sensors.

The longer the focal length, the more likely you'll see it.

The deeper the stop, the more likely you'll see it.

So a 400mm with a doubler at F22, will USUALLY still have some kind of dust, even if you've just cleaned it with an arctic butterfly. It's the nature of sensors. There's always "stuff" floating around that gets into things.

Stills photographers have been dealing with it for years. Google sensor dust and find a zillion ways to clean a sensor. I've found the "artic butterfly" to be very effective. We use it all the time on RED's, Alexas and BMCCs.

It helps to know when you're more likely to see it. And thats, longer lenses, deeper stops against flat field (like the sky)

jb
Last edited by John Brawley on Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John Brawley

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 6:37 am

Gan Eden wrote:Brand new cameras should NOT have dirty sensors. What is going on?


You really can't help yourself for jumping up and down and nailing BMD even when it's a pretty normal occurrence. You really do have a chip on your shoulder.

We don't know what kind of working environment the OP has been in. It's very easy to have sensor dust appear and it's a normal issue on many digital cameras. Anyone who's had any kind of ongoing shooting experience has usually dealt with this before.

jb
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 6:58 am

John Brawley wrote: I've found the "artic butterfly" to be very effective. We use it all the time on RED's, Alexas and BMCCs.



+1 for the butterfly, works like a charm.
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Jon Braeley

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 12:34 pm

I believe there is a piece of glass just in front of the sensor anyway... this is probably the culprit and can easily be cleaned.

When I received my new camera from B&H 2 weeks ago I saw a large glob - not just a snudge but almost black mark on the lower right screen. I had not shot yet and only put on a brand new lens. so I switched the lens... still there.

Then I went to clean inside and a small black piece of plastic came out - literally fell out and was about 1/8th thick. There were also 3 or 4 smudges on the inside glass... and the camera had never been used... well not by me anyway.
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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 1:29 pm

John Brawley wrote:Sounds like sensor dust.

Something that occurs with all cameras.

You can always find it in the right conditions, even on freshly cleaned sensors.

The longer the focal length, the more likely you'll see it.

The deeper the stop, the more likely you'll see it.

So a 400mm with a doubler at F22, will USUALLY still have some kind of dust, even if you've just cleaned it with an arctic butterfly. It's the nature of sensors. There's always "stuff" floating around that gets into things.

Stills photographers have been dealing with it for years. Google sensor dust and find a zillion ways to clean a sensor. I've found the "artic butterfly" to be very effective. We use it all the time on RED's, Alexas and BMCCs.

It helps to know when you're more likely to see it. And thats, longer lenses, deeper stops against flat field (like the sky)

jb



I don't have an SSD yet so I haven't been using the camera THAT much.

However, I bought a dozen lenses and I've been playing around with the cam and switching lenses a lot and THAT might explain why there could be dust-smudge on the sensor.

I did notice that blowing air removed some of the spots while making other spots that weren't there to begin with visible. I assume this can be attributed to the air shifting the dust around?

Anyway. The Arctic Butterfly is expensive but I guess I don't have a choice. From the comments I got from you guys (except from a couple of-not-so-helpful dudes out there) I'm now leaning towards dust rather than a faulty sensor.

While I'm considering the Butterfly, I have a zeiss lens cleaning kit here with a little brush. Very soft. Should I try the brush or absolutely need the Arctic Butterfly?

Thanks guys.
Last edited by Max Normandin on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 1:44 pm

I wouldn't touch the sensor...and also wouldn't use compressed air (it can spray water drops).
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adamroberts

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 2:23 pm

jtorrents wrote:I wouldn't touch the sensor...and also wouldn't use compressed air (it can spray water drops).


Yeah. A Giottos Rocket Air Blower is much better as there is less chance of water vapour being in the air that is blown at the sensor.
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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 3:25 pm

Well the problem's pretty much solved now. I just spoke with my seller and he's sending me a brand new one. Period.

According to them, if you pay 2500$ for a camera and are having issues with it within the first 5 days, just send it back and get a brand new one. (These ''dust particles'' weren't dust after all, but a problem with the sensor)

Also, seller tells me they have BMCC's sent back to them ALL the time. Hopefully my new camera won't have any issues.

BTW, this is not me complaining to or about Blackmagic: I love my new camera and I am sticking with Blackmagic no matter what. I was hoping not to fall into the category of those who have to send their cameras back, but heck, at least they have decent return policies.

matthijsliethof

Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 3:29 pm

I Wouldn't even blast the sensor with air. Unless you have a very dustfree environment. If not you're just shooting more dust onto the sensor, I've seen cases with canon DSLR's with some dust behind the olpf glass, because of excessive blowing.

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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 3:52 pm

I won't even bother to clean it now.

Customer service from my seller is impeccable. He basically told me he gets return calls at least once a day for the BMCC. Not a good sign, but it's a fairly new product and a revolutionary one so as long as I'm getting a fair exchange I don't have a problem with some of the cameras having flaws.
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Kristian Lam

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 4:03 pm

If the spots move when you use a blower, it's probably dust or particles on the surface of the glass. I'm interested in finding out more, especially how your reseller was about to determine that it is a sensor issue over the phone. I have sent you a PM to get more information.

BTW, the sensor is enclosed in a sealed chamber. If you stick your finger into the turret, the first thing you will touch is a separate glass cover, not the sensor (or sensor glass).
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Max Normandin

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Re: WEIRD SPOTS

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 4:36 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:If the spots move when you use a blower, it's probably dust or particles on the surface of the glass. I'm interested in finding out more, especially how your reseller was about to determine that it is a sensor issue over the phone. I have sent you a PM to get more information.

BTW, the sensor is enclosed in a sealed chamber. If you stick your finger into the turret, the first thing you will touch is a separate glass cover, not the sensor (or sensor glass).



Yes, I know that Kristian. Though I wouldn't want to put my fingers in there to confirm it anyhow.

I answered your PM.

Now let me clear this up for those of you who are still reading this thread. My dealer did not SPECIFICALLY say it was a problem with the sensor. He said it was either one of two options.

Option A) Dust on the sensor/sensor glass if you prefer
Option B) Faulty sensor

Now the reason why the representatives I spoke too (because I spoke to more than one person) came to the conclusion that it was most likely a problem with the sensor, option B, comes down to this:

1) I've had very limited use of the camera. (only had it for 5 days. haven't shot anything since I don't have ssd cards)

2) The ''dust'' particles - at this point I'll just say ''spots'' -- appear encrusted on the sensor. Yes, I've blown a little air into the sensor and some particles have vanished, but there are at least 5 or 6 spots that seem totally encrusted there.

3) When I explained the conditions in which the camera was used, they just basically told me this shouldn't happen in the first place.

So basically their assessment was that I should just return the camera and they'll send me a new one.

Also, they had me perform a very simple test with a pen light and I couldn't find a single SPECK of dust on the sensor. I even went so far as to use a loupe with the pen light and the sensor glass is clean clean clean.

So, unless some kind of chewing gum particle got in there (which is not the case) then we couldn't find an explanation as to why anything got encrusted on the sensor.

Hence, faulty sensor.

That being said, my first 5 days with the BMCC have been a total delight. The camera is so beautiful it's heartbreaking. I can't wait to get my replacement camera and start shooting with it.

So again, I'm not complaining about or to BMCC. I love their camera and I'm sticking with them no matter what. These little hiccups are just part of the game and could happen with a new 5d Mark iii or Nikon D8000.

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