Update on Camera Shipments

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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 11:41 am

B & H buy in for a long, long time, offered a good quality work for the presidential elections in Venezuela on Sunday 7 October, I was fired project ......
that's my story BM
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 11:49 am

Edwin M wrote:B & H buy in for a long, long time, offered a good quality work for the presidential elections in Venezuela on Sunday 7 October, I was fired project ......
that's my story BM


Wow that is harsh... I would have sold you mine if I actually had it. I hope BMD compensates you in some way.
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 12:02 pm

Costa wrote:
Edwin M wrote:B & H buy in for a long, long time, offered a good quality work for the presidential elections in Venezuela on Sunday 7 October, I was fired project ......
that's my story BM


Wow that is harsh... I would have sold you mine if I actually had it. I hope BMD compensates you in some way.


You are kidding right?
A bit much to blame a mfg of a camera that hasn't been officially released yet.
I guess in that case I should sue Autodesk for selling us software that crashes when I throw 5 million polygons its way. Lost so much work hours trying to recover the frames.
No where in the manual or disclaimer stating I cant do that :)
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 12:07 pm

Costa wrote:
Edwin M wrote:B & H buy in for a long, long time, offered a good quality work for the presidential elections in Venezuela on Sunday 7 October, I was fired project ......
that's my story BM


Wow that is harsh... I would have sold you mine if I actually had it. I hope BMD compensates you in some way.


At this point, the game ..... BM with a response would be happy
sorry I can not write what I feel in my native language, I'm not good with English
I think that abuse the loyalty of its customers by not giving any information.
BM enters the forum every day, and yet says nothing.
I, like other purchases influenced by the boom of news and advertising, (I fell into the trap), and today it weighs not more, right from the camera, or bad company
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 12:21 pm

Costa wrote:
Joerg Plechinger wrote:I spoke to Teltec this morning, my reseller here in germany. They didn't even know what's going on in detail, too ... although they are one of the biggest reseller here!
BMD please give us a realistic delivery date ... I ordered and prepaid the cam in May already, ... Really, I need this camera urgently, since I promissed two clients that I'll produce their films with it ... latest in november - this year! For the last three jobs I had to rent cameras ... This is no good.


Well it being around 21:00hrs in Melbourne on Friday night, I doubt we will get a response. And seeing as though BMD UK doesn't know anything other than what is apparently listed on this forum I doubt we'll get a response this week from any other BMD head office other than one that Grant Petty is at.

I doubt we'll get a response this month to be honest. It has obviously come from high up (Mr Petty himself) that no one at BMD should know what is going on just in case someone let's the true information slip...


I'm fairly sure it would be foolish to give a shipping date or estimate until they are shipping, they've proven what happens when they try that even with relatively vague terms.

They could give us more updates on the process but that's a matter of taste.
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bhook

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 12:24 pm

Not to nit pick but I seem to recall that shipping has been announced...in very specific terms...as in "BMCs are shipping".
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 1:34 pm

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Costa wrote:
Joerg Plechinger wrote:I spoke to Teltec this morning, my reseller here in germany. They didn't even know what's going on in detail, too ... although they are one of the biggest reseller here!
BMD please give us a realistic delivery date ... I ordered and prepaid the cam in May already, ... Really, I need this camera urgently, since I promissed two clients that I'll produce their films with it ... latest in november - this year! For the last three jobs I had to rent cameras ... This is no good.


Well it being around 21:00hrs in Melbourne on Friday night, I doubt we will get a response. And seeing as though BMD UK doesn't know anything other than what is apparently listed on this forum I doubt we'll get a response this week from any other BMD head office other than one that Grant Petty is at.

I doubt we'll get a response this month to be honest. It has obviously come from high up (Mr Petty himself) that no one at BMD should know what is going on just in case someone let's the true information slip...


I'm fairly sure it would be foolish to give a shipping date or estimate until they are shipping, they've proven what happens when they try that even with relatively vague terms.

They could give us more updates on the process but that's a matter of taste.


Sorry, but are you not in the least bit annoyed with the constant delays... do you not think we deserve an answer. You keep making excuses for BMD.
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 3:05 pm

Costa wrote:
Sorry, but are you not in the least bit annoyed with the constant delays... do you not think we deserve an answer. You keep making excuses for BMD.


??????
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 3:09 pm

Edwin M wrote:
Costa wrote:
Sorry, but are you not in the least bit annoyed with the constant delays... do you not think we deserve an answer. You keep making excuses for BMD.


??????


Yes? This was not in response to you.
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 3:13 pm

deserve an answer
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 3:50 pm

Costa wrote:
Sorry, but are you not in the least bit annoyed with the constant delays... do you not think we deserve an answer. You keep making excuses for BMD.



I have said several times I want an answer, and that BMD have messed up. However I want a correct answer that hasn't been rushed out the door before they are sure it's correct. We had a few of those and they've just made people madder.

Being told again that its a few weeks only for them to discover another issue to increase that is just going to frustrate me more.

I check regularly for an ANSWER, but I have hightened my standards of what an answer is. Unlike many I'm not willing to accept a future shipping date as a definite answer as I've come to the conclusion that they are worthless, as BMD haven't met one yet for this camera.

If another problem appears I want to hear about it, when shipping steps up a gear from a tiny trickle (if even that's happening at the moment) I want to hear. I don't want a half baked guessed date like so many here want. This is a clear example of how nothing should be taken for granted until you have it in your hands. The couriers of inner east London seem baffled by entry phones, a major issue given the nature of most of the housing round here, so I'm in an endless battle with many of them to actually have deliveries on time, which means even something as strong as shipping often doesn't give me much hope.

I've never understood people's desire for regular updates which tell them nothing, I like updates but I want them to tell me something new, not something I already know and knew the last 5 times.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 3:57 pm

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Costa wrote:
Sorry, but are you not in the least bit annoyed with the constant delays... do you not think we deserve an answer. You keep making excuses for BMD.



I have said several times I want an answer, and that BMD have messed up. However I want a correct answer that hasn't been rushed out the door before they are sure it's correct. We had a few of those and they've just made people madder.

Being told again that its a few weeks only for them to discover another issue to increase that is just going to frustrate me more.

I check regularly for an ANSWER, but I have hightened my standards of what an answer is. Unlike many I'm not willing to accept a future shipping date as a definite answer as I've come to the conclusion that they are worthless, as BMD haven't met one yet for this camera.

If another problem appears I want to hear about it, when shipping steps up a gear from a tiny trickle (if even that's happening at the moment) I want to hear. I don't want a half baked guessed date like so many here want. This is a clear example of how nothing should be taken for granted until you have it in your hands. The couriers of inner east London seem baffled by entry phones, a major issue given the nature of most of the housing round here, so I'm in an endless battle with many of them to actually have deliveries on time, which means even something as strong as shipping often doesn't give me much hope.

I've never understood people's desire for regular updates which tell them nothing, I like updates but I want them to tell me something new, not something I already know and knew the last 5 times.


I don't understand how a regular update would be a bad thing... I want to know if shipping has halted due to their supplier going bust, or if the sensor supplier has done a U-turn, or if we won't see the camera until at least next year...

All these updates could help someone decide if the camera is worth waiting for or not... I don't want a guess date. I NEVER want BMD to announce a date again... I mean never, they just are not trustworthy in this respect. I do however want answers.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:03 pm

Costa wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Costa wrote:
Sorry, but are you not in the least bit annoyed with the constant delays... do you not think we deserve an answer. You keep making excuses for BMD.



I have said several times I want an answer, and that BMD have messed up. However I want a correct answer that hasn't been rushed out the door before they are sure it's correct. We had a few of those and they've just made people madder.

Being told again that its a few weeks only for them to discover another issue to increase that is just going to frustrate me more.

I check regularly for an ANSWER, but I have hightened my standards of what an answer is. Unlike many I'm not willing to accept a future shipping date as a definite answer as I've come to the conclusion that they are worthless, as BMD haven't met one yet for this camera.

If another problem appears I want to hear about it, when shipping steps up a gear from a tiny trickle (if even that's happening at the moment) I want to hear. I don't want a half baked guessed date like so many here want. This is a clear example of how nothing should be taken for granted until you have it in your hands. The couriers of inner east London seem baffled by entry phones, a major issue given the nature of most of the housing round here, so I'm in an endless battle with many of them to actually have deliveries on time, which means even something as strong as shipping often doesn't give me much hope.

I've never understood people's desire for regular updates which tell them nothing, I like updates but I want them to tell me something new, not something I already know and knew the last 5 times.


I don't understand how a regular update would be a bad thing... I want to know if shipping has halted due to their supplier going bust, or if the sensor supplier has done a U-turn, or if we won't see the camera until at least next year...

All these updates could help someone decide if the camera is worth waiting for or not... I don't want a guess date. I NEVER want BMD to announce a date again... I mean never, they just are not trustworthy in this respect. I do however want answers.


Regular updates can lead to more rubbish being spouted and false hope. I'm not against regular updates but i am against updates for the sake of updates.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:08 pm

Pete, I agree with you 100%

However at this point something else has probably gone wrong. We were expecting at least the information on delivery of the glass. Grant Petty basically stated the supplier would get the glass at the end of LAST week and start producing and once BMD received shipment they could start sending camera's out the SAME day. The timescale since the last update just doesn't add up.
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:16 pm

It seems that the complaints are coming from a small community.
So small that we cant seem to warrant any answer on cases such as this.
I too want to know whats going on but in the interim I am learning as much as I can run with the BMCC as soon as my feet hits the ground.

Another Friday is almost done, I was hoping for something new but it didnt happen.
Such is life :)
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:29 pm

only we are a community of 5
ourselves discussing
with whom we want to discuss it with BM
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:31 pm

Edwin M wrote:only we are a community of 5
ourselves discussing
with whom we want to discuss it with BM


True dat, we also match the five known BMCC users online and blogging ;)
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:31 pm

Pollenstudio wrote:
Costa wrote:Just rang both CVP and Jigsaw24. CVP have been told NOTHING by BMD and Jigsaw24 say BMD have stated end of the year... Not sure if the Jigsaw24 end of the year date was for anyone pre-ordering from now, but I guess she would have mentioned that on the phone.


Peter - that Croc sure must be looking tasty.....! :lol:


Good morning ladies & germs! (Old joke, sorry.) :D

Actually, Marc's Crocs are still a distance-enough concern that I can't taste, let alone smell them, yet. :D

Meanwhile, nothing much has changed.

Given that the only people who know what's going on with BMCC manufacturing & shipping are under NDA (non-disclosure) contracts, I don't put much credence in what someone at Jigsaw24 says, or anyone else. As always, concerning BMCC manufacturing & shipping news, the most accurate source ("usually") is BMD employees their beta testers. Everything else is conjecture, rumor, speculation, and yes, whining.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

Am I happy about the situation? No. Have I expressed my dissatisfaction about it to BMD? Yes. Will that change the situation much? Maybe a tiny amount, but I have my doubts.

However, criticism and complaining have absolutely no effect on causing tested-good camera sensor assemblies (or any other hardware or software) materializing out of thin air. For those sorts of things, all we end user customers can do is chose to wait, or not.

(For the litigious-minded and "internet-vendetta-minded" in the crowd: Go nuts. It's your heart attack.)

A few other things:

To poster "emotiondesigner": You know the scene in the movie "The Graduate" where someone at the party offers advice to our hero about what he should do with his future? ("Plastics.") Well, my advice to you is, "Paragraphs." :D

Concerning whether the BMCC is "shipping" or not:

The BMD website has said "Limited shipping" for the BMCC-EF for weeks now. That's not new news. Also, BMD allegedly started officially shipping BMCC-EF cams several weeks ago, but the quantities were apparently so small you could probably count them on your fingers & toes (plus or minus a few fingers/toes). But as far as BMD is concerned, shipping officially started ... and then allegedly was halted soon thereafter, when they discovered the sensor glass issue.

BMD probably did stop shipping cameras well before the time Grant Petty posted his letter. If (if) BMD has received tested-good sensor assemblies since then, my guess (and it's only a guess) is they've used those (likely very small quantities) to manufacture cameras, tested the heck out of them at BMD, and then shipped them to a few more lucky folks, especially beta testers & "name" DPs, but also possibly to a few vendor/retailers as demo units, and possibly even to a very few end user customers.

As more tested-good sensor assemblies continue to arrive at BMD (if in fact any are), more cameras will be assembled, tested and shipped. As that cycle continues and repeats, the quantities & frequency are likely to increase -- that's the normal "ramping up" process.

However, the way these things go, BMD could announce anything today or tomorrow, or not. Myself, I hope for the best, but plan for the worst. I stopped organizing my life around the vagueness of camera manufacturer announcements years ago, well-before BMD announced they wanted to make cameras.

There's nothing about what's happened concerning the BMCC's manufacturing woes that surprises me. BMD set themselves up for a huge bag of hurt by "going there", and then compounded it by announcing a definite timeline. This is how we (all) learn.

Even with all that, I don't see any contradiction about my being optimistic about BMD's and the BMCC's future. The early BMCCs have already proven themselves to be awesome cameras, and BMD has a track record of notable accomplishment. As screwed-up as the present situation is, those two things are indisputable facts to me.

Despite what's happened, I very much look forward to receiving my BMCC-EF ASAP.

Cheers.

P.S.: Oh, and my Graduate-style word of advice to myself would be, "Brevity." ;-)
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:47 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Pollenstudio wrote:
Costa wrote:Just rang both CVP and Jigsaw24. CVP have been told NOTHING by BMD and Jigsaw24 say BMD have stated end of the year... Not sure if the Jigsaw24 end of the year date was for anyone pre-ordering from now, but I guess she would have mentioned that on the phone.


Peter - that Croc sure must be looking tasty.....! :lol:


Good morning ladies & germs! (Old joke, sorry.) :D

Actually, Marc's Crocs are still a distance-enough concern that I can't taste, let alone smell them, yet. :D

Meanwhile, nothing much has changed.

Given that the only people who know what's going on with BMCC manufacturing & shipping are under NDA (non-disclosure) contracts, I don't put much credence in what someone at Jigsaw24 says, or anyone else. As always, concerning BMCC manufacturing & shipping news, the most accurate source ("usually") is BMD employees their beta testers. Everything else is conjecture, rumor, speculation, and yes, whining.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

Am I happy about the situation? No. Have I expressed my dissatisfaction about it to BMD? Yes. Will that change the situation much? Maybe a tiny amount, but I have my doubts.

However, criticism and complaining have absolutely no effect on causing tested-good camera sensor assemblies (or any other hardware or software) materializing out of thin air. For those sorts of things, all we end user customers can do is chose to wait, or not.

(For the litigious-minded and "internet-vendetta-minded" in the crowd: Go nuts. It's your heart attack.)

A few other things:

To poster "emotiondesigner": You know the scene in the movie "The Graduate" where someone at the party offers advice to our hero about what he should do with his future? ("Plastics.") Well, my advice to you is, "Paragraphs." :D

Concerning whether the BMCC is "shipping" or not:

The BMD website has said "Limited shipping" for the BMCC-EF for weeks now. That's not new news. Also, BMD allegedly started officially shipping BMCC-EF cams several weeks ago, but the quantities were apparently so small you could probably count them on your fingers & toes (plus or minus a few fingers/toes). But as far as BMD is concerned, shipping officially started ... and then allegedly was halted soon thereafter, when they discovered the sensor glass issue.

BMD probably did stop shipping cameras well before the time Grant Petty posted his letter. If (if) BMD has received tested-good sensor assemblies since then, my guess (and it's only a guess) is they've used those (likely very small quantities) to manufacture cameras, tested the heck out of them at BMD, and then shipped them to a few more lucky folks, especially beta testers & "name" DPs, but also possibly to a few vendor/retailers as demo units, and possibly even to a very few end user customers.

As more tested-good sensor assemblies continue to arrive at BMD (if in fact any are), more cameras will be assembled, tested and shipped. As that cycle continues and repeats, the quantities & frequency are likely to increase -- that's the normal "ramping up" process.

However, the way these things go, BMD could announce anything today or tomorrow, or not. Myself, I hope for the best, but plan for the worst. I stopped organizing my life around the vagueness of camera manufacturer announcements years ago, well-before BMD announced they wanted to make cameras.

There's nothing about what's happened concerning the BMCC's manufacturing woes that surprises me. BMD set themselves up for a huge bag of hurt by "going there", and then compounded it by announcing a definite timeline. This is how we (all) learn.

Even with all that, I don't see any contradiction about my being optimistic about BMD's and the BMCC's future. The early BMCCs have already proven themselves to be awesome cameras, and BMD has a track record of notable accomplishment. As screwed-up as the present situation is, those two things are indisputable facts to me.

Despite what's happened, I very much look forward to receiving my BMCC-EF ASAP.

Cheers.

P.S.: Oh, and my Graduate-style word of advice to myself would be, "Brevity." ;-)


In response to Peter J. DeCrescenzo, I would do less paragraphs, actually less talking if I were you;) Only joking.. or am I?

In all seriousness your response to the delay is very mature and I commend that, however you are unlikely to know what each one of us is going through in regards to these delays. We've had people admit they have lost jobs, had to hire other more expensive equipment, cancel their pre-order and go with a camera they could have bough months ago and me? Well I've been told not to buy BMD gear again by my boss. We've had money tied up in this camera AND BMD's imaginary hyperdeck studio pro for MONTHS now.

In fact CVP have listed the Hyperdeck studo pro at LESS than what they sold it to us. I'm guessing BMD are selling them to vendors for cheaper (now as it's taken so long to arrive), so I've asked for a refund on the difference (only £39 but think of the interest on the cash sitting in THEIR bank on the full amount).

Anyways, to cut a long story short... different strokes for different folks and all that.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 4:54 pm

Costa wrote:In response to Peter J. DeCrescenzo, I would do less paragraphs, actually less talking if I were you;) Only joking.. or am I?

In all seriousness your response to the delay is very mature and I commend that, however you are unlikely to know what each one of us is going through in regards to these delays. We've had people admit they have lost jobs, had to hire other more expensive equipment, cancel their pre-order and go with a camera they could have bough months ago and me? Well I've been told not to buy BMD gear again by my boss. We've had money tied up in this camera AND BMD's imaginary hyperdeck studio pro for MONTHS now.

In fact CVP have listed the Hyperdeck studo pro at LESS than what they sold it to us. I'm guessing BMD are selling them to vendors for cheaper (now as it's taken so long to arrive), so I've asked for a refund on the difference (only £39 but think of the interest on the cash sitting in THEIR bank on the full amount).

Anyways, to cut a long story short... different strokes for different folks and all that.


I hear you, Costa, and my comments above are in no way meant to minimize the pain some people find themselves in as a result of what's happened. My sympathy is worth little, but I offer it anyway, sincerely.

At this point, the only choice all of us have (including BMD) is to make the best of a bad situation, or not. That's not to say it'll be easy or pleasant, but there it is.

Cheers.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 5:22 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Costa wrote:In response to Peter J. DeCrescenzo, I would do less paragraphs, actually less talking if I were you;) Only joking.. or am I?

In all seriousness your response to the delay is very mature and I commend that, however you are unlikely to know what each one of us is going through in regards to these delays. We've had people admit they have lost jobs, had to hire other more expensive equipment, cancel their pre-order and go with a camera they could have bough months ago and me? Well I've been told not to buy BMD gear again by my boss. We've had money tied up in this camera AND BMD's imaginary hyperdeck studio pro for MONTHS now.

In fact CVP have listed the Hyperdeck studo pro at LESS than what they sold it to us. I'm guessing BMD are selling them to vendors for cheaper (now as it's taken so long to arrive), so I've asked for a refund on the difference (only £39 but think of the interest on the cash sitting in THEIR bank on the full amount).

Anyways, to cut a long story short... different strokes for different folks and all that.


I hear you, Costa, and my comments above are in no way meant to minimize the pain some people find themselves in as a result of what's happened. My sympathy is worth little, but I offer it anyway, sincerely.

At this point, the only choice all of us have (including BMD) is to make the best of a bad situation, or not. That's not to say it'll be easy or pleasant, but there it is.

Cheers.


It was not my intention to make you feel bad, so sorry for that! It was only for you to understand where we "complainers" are coming from.

I am part of the old school. I want a company to treat me in step with how I have treated them and I have treated BMD very kindly.

I have listed all our BMD devices before so I wont bore people with the list again, suffice to say that the amount goes into the mid to late thousands including 3k from my own pocket for the BMCC and a canon lens.

As part of the "old school" I would expect a BMD rep to look at my purchases (again which I have listed here before) and say... "wow this guy likes our gear and is willing to buy more - lets give him some information" or at least send out a heartfelt apology. I buy from them and they sell to me and keep me updated. It's the circle of business life.

Now however, they have lost a customer in me and my place of work for all future purchases... AJA and Datavideo here we/I come! Sorry BMD, I've lost respect for you. I wish it wasn't so, but you will be treated as you have treated me.

:( :(
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Andreas Kaufmann

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 6:12 pm

I totally share the enthusiasm for the camera. But people.. its just a camera.. There is loads of footage out there to play with.. I'm totally fine getting my camera in december.. Always remember.. they badly WANT to get the camera out to us. Complaining won't help much.. Grant Petty is not an idiot and I think he surely has his reasons for the silence..

I'm also in the state of preparing my master-thesis film and I need the camera for testing.. I also have some projects where the blackmagic would be fine for.. but the fact that we can have this camera in the next three months should be enough for us.. Just look at the images again and think about if it's worth waiting for..

We all want to have new information for the camera and I think they will speak to us in the next few days because the pressure is going higher..
www.andreas-kaufmann.net
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 6:25 pm

AndiDieMaus wrote:I totally share the enthusiasm for the camera. But people.. its just a camera.. There is loads of footage out there to play with.. I'm totally fine getting my camera in december.. Always remember.. they badly WANT to get the camera out to us. Complaining won't help much.. Grant Petty is not an idiot and I think he surely has his reasons for the silence..

I'm also in the state of preparing my master-thesis film and I need the camera for testing.. I also have some projects where the blackmagic would be fine for.. but the fact that we can have this camera in the next three months should be enough for us.. Just look at the images again and think about if it's worth waiting for..

We all want to have new information for the camera and I think they will speak to us in the next few days because the pressure is going higher..


Again different strokes for different folks. To you it's just a camera for study for me it's a livelyhood to feed my family!

Also "Grant Petty is not a fool" is not what we're debating but if we must go "there" then what is he not a fool at? He is a GREAT engineer, but a terrible person to be having to run a company. He's an engingeer. He's not creative.

His companies faults are his and you're only as good as your last job! A good CEO would have open ended statements so not to get in to the situation he finds himself now. Never release dates you cannot stick to. Give tentative dates and NEVER make the same mistake twice. He's failed at all these basic business rules.

A GREAT Engineer. A bad CEO.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:02 pm

Costa wrote:
AndiDieMaus wrote:I totally share the enthusiasm for the camera. But people.. its just a camera.. There is loads of footage out there to play with.. I'm totally fine getting my camera in december.. Always remember.. they badly WANT to get the camera out to us. Complaining won't help much.. Grant Petty is not an idiot and I think he surely has his reasons for the silence..

I'm also in the state of preparing my master-thesis film and I need the camera for testing.. I also have some projects where the blackmagic would be fine for.. but the fact that we can have this camera in the next three months should be enough for us.. Just look at the images again and think about if it's worth waiting for..

We all want to have new information for the camera and I think they will speak to us in the next few days because the pressure is going higher..


Again different strokes for different folks. To you it's just a camera for study for me it's a livelyhood to feed my family!

Also "Grant Petty is not a fool" is not what we're debating but if we must go "there" then what is he not a fool at? He is a GREAT engineer, but a terrible person to be having to run a company. He's an engingeer. He's not creative.

His companies faults are his and you're only as good as your last job! A good CEO would have open ended statements so not to get in to the situation he finds himself now. Never release dates you cannot stick to. Give tentative dates and NEVER make the same mistake twice. He's failed at all these basic business rules.

A GREAT Engineer. A bad CEO.


Not sure it's his being an engineer makes him a bad CEO, fairly sure they often make very good CEOs. They often aren't the best at PR but that's what PR people are for.

The reason engineers often make pr mistakes is they have a tendency to have faith in people understanding unspoken caveats in a statement.

Ultimately the mistakes of his company are his. But the jobs lost due to the delays on the camera aren't ultimately his mistakes, they are those of the people who booked jobs without a camera they had. In the same way that Perry's suppliers have let him down yet its his responsibility, his failure to provide the camera in time for the job is the creatives mistake for having no fallback when booking with kits they don't have.
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Luca Salvatori

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:09 pm

AndiDieMaus wrote:I totally share the enthusiasm for the camera. But people.. its just a camera.. There is loads of footage out there to play with..
....I'm also in the state of preparing my master-thesis film and I need the camera for testing..


youre only a student , i need Bmcc for work!

....

I call tomorrow BL2 store here in Italy, theres no available cam in our store , theres a bad marketing strategy...

Yesterday BL2 write this: http://www.facebook.com/BL2Store?fref=ts :
....Blackmagic Cinema Camera è disponibile a magazzino da domani, con tutti gli accessori, come batterie e rig, e le ottiche Canon e Zeiss... Ordina Ora !....

BMCC its available tomorrow in our stores, with all accessries, battery, rig, zeiss lens...PREORDER NOW...
Cinematographer/Colorist

Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT 2.5K
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
Panasonic HDC27H Varicam
Panasonic EVA1
Red Scarlet Dragon
Sony a7s

P+S Technik: 18/3 25/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 85/1.4

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:18 pm

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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:24 pm

Edwin M wrote:https://www.facebook.com/BL2Store/posts/151756204968551?notif_t=share_reply
Available in Italy


Is that a fact or false advertising? Have you rung to ask?
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Luca Salvatori

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:25 pm

Edwin M wrote:https://www.facebook.com/BL2Store/posts/151756204968551?notif_t=share_reply
Available in Italy


Did you read my previous post? Itsnt available yet
Cinematographer/Colorist

Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFT 2.5K
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
Panasonic HDC27H Varicam
Panasonic EVA1
Red Scarlet Dragon
Sony a7s

P+S Technik: 18/3 25/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 85/1.4

www.luca-salvatori.format.com
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:27 pm

Luca Salvatori wrote:
Edwin M wrote:https://www.facebook.com/BL2Store/posts/151756204968551?notif_t=share_reply
Available in Italy


Did you read my previous post? Itsnt available yet


Ah sorry missed that.
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:36 pm

Costa wrote:To you it's just a camera for study for me it's a livelyhood to feed my family!
....
Never release dates you cannot stick to. Give tentative dates and NEVER make the same mistake twice. He's failed at all these basic business rules.

I think another basic business rule would be to "NEVER" let your 'families livelyhood' rest on your ability to make income from unreleased products. ;)

I'm just teasing, but its to make the point that i dont think its necessary to start making attacks against others. I mean, i know nothing about you so my comment above if serious (it's very much not) would be totally unfair. I get that people are frustrated, but we can still be civil. :)
**Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:44 pm

CaptainHook wrote:
Costa wrote:To you it's just a camera for study for me it's a livelyhood to feed my family!
....
Never release dates you cannot stick to. Give tentative dates and NEVER make the same mistake twice. He's failed at all these basic business rules.

I think another basic business rule would be to "NEVER" let your 'families livelyhood' rest on your ability to make income from unreleased products. ;)

I'm just teasing, but its to make the point that i dont think its necessary to start making attacks against others. I mean, i know nothing about you so my comment above if serious (it's very much not) would be totally unfair. I get that people are frustrated, but we can still be civil. :)


Look the comment about livelihood was to make a point. His issues differ from mine. The camera is for work not study in my situation. Of course I'm not going to go bust without this camera! I have an EX3 and fs100 for crying out loud:) Also how did I name call?
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:48 pm

Lets not put each other down for their decisions about what camera they intend to use for what job.

If you pay for a camera, and you're given a release date, its reasonable to assume it will be there... Clearly that was a mistake for many of us as it is not here, and BMD need to pull their finger out now.

Personally I primarily work in post production but I sometimes work as a DP and my kit is part of the package. I sold my AF101 for this. Call me dumb if you like - but I can't afford to run more than one camera or rent them as and when - the profit for these jobs is often not massive and renting means I'm not as familiar with the camera and is often not affordable for my clients...
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Luca Salvatori wrote:
Edwin M wrote:https://www.facebook.com/BL2Store/posts/151756204968551?notif_t=share_reply
Available in Italy


Did you read my previous post? Itsnt available yet


Ups! sorry
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 7:59 pm

How about we all just get together on this situation and direct our questions to one angle and that is BMD.
No amount of angst and in-fighting is going to get us a new camera.
Do we need to sign a digital petition?
Does anyone know how to set one up?
Does anyone care to even try?
I will sign it a thousand times if it will help get me my order filled.
However, I too am content with no answer since its really not my company to meddle with.
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Luke Armstrong

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:21 pm

I'm not certain that a petition is productive - BMD know how customers feel, its being plastered all over their forums quite rightly.

From what they've said, its mostly out of their control and it is in there interests to get the cameras in our hands. The issue most people on this forum have is the lack of concrete information - it is not our problem whether BMD is not certain about it's facts - they need to give us something regularly to keep our trust. Even if that means a post that says simply 'The situation is the same, we're doing our best and we'll update you when something changes, or failing that the same time next week'
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:28 pm

Luke Armstrong wrote:I'm not certain that a petition is productive - BMD know how customers feel, its being plastered all over their forums quite rightly...

I figured that. But I had to throw it in there.
Some of us have lives to deal and would like to have this resolved (no pun intended).
To me this situation is no different than our NHL (hockey league) strike situation.
Doesn't affect me financially but would love the option to watch a game live or on the tube.
But it does benefit others and its their lively hood.

Hang in there folks we will all get through this :)
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 8:33 pm

Yes actually I think that is the most frustrating thing about all this - to the average person its quite stressful having that two thousand bucks sitting there waiting for it to go out of your account, and waiting for the camera to show up. You go onto BMD's site, its forums, your supplier to get answers and no one knows anything, and the cycle carries on... There are just a lot of other frustrated people.

Not helped by the fact that there are a lot of reviewers out there toting cameras whilst none of the real customers have theirs.

Most of us just want to get on with our lives and not spend our time waiting for a piece of kit... no matter how fancy it is! :)
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 10:55 pm

CaptainHook wrote:
Costa wrote:To you it's just a camera for study for me it's a livelyhood to feed my family!
....
Never release dates you cannot stick to. Give tentative dates and NEVER make the same mistake twice. He's failed at all these basic business rules.

I think another basic business rule would be to "NEVER" let your 'families livelyhood' rest on your ability to make income from unreleased products. ;)

I'm just teasing, but its to make the point that i dont think its necessary to start making attacks against others. I mean, i know nothing about you so my comment above if serious (it's very much not) would be totally unfair. I get that people are frustrated, but we can still be civil. :)


Agree! You cannot feed your family with the BMCC Images, but with your ideas.. There are enough cameras out there that you can rent if your client wants you to shoot raw.. (if the DSLR's arent enough)..

I'm sure Grant Petty will talk to us very soon!
www.andreas-kaufmann.net
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 11:03 pm

AndiDieMaus wrote:I'm sure Grant Petty will talk to us very soon!


You have learned well Grasshopper! "Very soon" as in days...weeks...months...early next year? If you answer, you fail. ;)
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 11:11 pm

Grant Petty wrote:Hi,

I wanted to give everyone an update on where we are with Blackmagic CinemaCamera shipments.

As you know, we have been dealing with a supplier delay which has stalled our ability to build cameras. I thought it might be a good idea to explain in more detail what is going on and do a technical "brain dump" on the problem so everyone understands the nature of the delay and what we have been doing about it.

Over a month ago now, we completed the testing of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera and started production. Very quickly we started to see cameras failing our production testing as they suffered from blemishes on the sensor. These are high end cameras so need to be built to a very high specification.

We started testing to discover the cause of the problem and discovered that the problems were from our second shipment of sensors. The first shipment of sensors were fine. All the cameras you currently see people using had been built from this first batch of sensors and that is why we did not see any issues until we started to build cameras in volume.

While investigating the problem our engineers found the blemishes were in the glass that covers the sensor, and not the sensor itself. This is good because the glass might just be dirty so we saw this as a quick fix, but wondered how a supplier could deliver us sensors that had blemishes, as they are supposed to pre test them.

It is worth noting here what this glass does. Each sensor has a glass cover to keep contamination off the surface of the sensor itself, which is essentially a large semiconductor. If the surface ever got dirty, it would be impossible to clean, however the glass is easy to clean. All sensors have this glass cover. It is a high quality glass with optical coatings, similar to lens glass.

Anyway getting back to the issue, when talking with the supplier, it turned out they had a bug in their test software that tested sensors after the glass had been applied. That's why they shipped us bad sensors and did not notice. They fixed that problem and could then see the problems we saw and stopped production as about 95% of sensors were suffering this problem with the glass.

The next step for the supplier was for them to work out the cause of the blemishes on the glass. They developed tests for the glass before being bonded to the sensor, and discovered it contained the blemishes on the glass before being used in the suppliers factory. After more testing over the last few weeks, the supplier has discovered the blemishes are caused by a contamination from the packing materials used by the glass supplier to ship the glass to the sensor supplier.

So that's where we are at now. The supplier is due to get more glass later this week and then hopes to start up production again new clean glass that will result in good quality sensors that we can use to start building cameras again.

We build our cameras in our own factory on a production line built for the camera so we can start shipping cameras again the day we receive good sensors.

I deeply apologize for the delay in shipping and it has been very frustrating for us as well to be sitting on a completed and tested product for a month that we cannot sell. Especially when people need them urgently.

As you can also see from the breakdown of the problem above, there has been multiple stages of testing to discover the cause of the problem so it has been hard to lock down dates or what was going on until now, so its been hard to update everyone on the exact details.

I hope this update helps people understand the delay. We should know more details about shipping times once the new glass arrives at our supplier.

We also have a new software update v1.1 for the camera due in a few days. The original v1 software did not have DNxHD support so thats now been added, as well as support for lens stabilizers and a bunch of other small features.


Regards,

Grant Petty
Blackmagic Design


coming soon
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostFri Oct 05, 2012 11:42 pm

We should know more details about shipping times once the new glass arrives at our supplier.


Since we get to read meaning INTO announcements, one could deduce that the new glass has not arrived at the BMD supplier because there has been no promised announcement about any new details.

:?
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 4:50 am

mhood wrote:
We should know more details about shipping times once the new glass arrives at our supplier.


Since we get to read meaning INTO announcements, one could deduce that the new glass has not arrived at the BMD supplier because there has been no promised announcement about any new details. :?


Hi Marc: Your analysis might be correct. I don't know.

I don't actually see any promise in Grant's letter concerning further updates. The wording appears to be very careful. I don't know if it's overly-careful on purpose (e.g.: as if it were run past BMD's legal dept.) or just by happenstance (which seems far fetched to me).

IMHO the letter is a textbook example of the appearance of detailed information & full disclosure, but without actually revealing or promising much at all.

As I've posted elsewhere, IMHO, days or weeks before Grant posted his letter, BMD could & should have said something approximately like the following:

=====================
"We deeply apologize for the delay in shipping your cameras. We've discovered what we believe is a solvable issue with the sensor assembly and are working diligently with our suppliers to address the issue as soon as possible. The issue appears to be one that may take at least a few weeks to fully address, but until we have complete information, we can't be more specific. Shipping date information is not possible at this time. We'll keep you informed of our progress on a weekly basis. Thank you very much for your patience."
=====================

Something like the above (the wording could be different) both conveys the seriousness of the problem and also sets expectations about how BMD plans to proceed, without revealing more detail than actually necessary. Most importantly, it promises regular updates that will contain additional information, whatever that may be.

As others have correctly said, once BMD got themselves into this mess by setting an approximate shipping date (e.g.: by the "end of July" or whatever) and encouraging pre-orders, honest communication was/is vastly preferable to no communication -- or vague communication.

I strongly believe that BMD should tell us on a regular basis (e.g.: weekly), what they know, as they know it, even if it's bad news or no news. Otherwise, the vacuum gets filled up with drivel like my posts. I'd rather read straight facts from BMD.

Cheers.

EDIT: Added the paragraph in bold, and added "and encouraging pre-orders".
Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo on Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 6:16 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:I strongly believe that BMD should tell us on a regular basis (e.g.: weekly), what they know, as they know it, even if it's bad news or no news. Otherwise, the vacuum gets filled up with drivel like my posts. I'd rather read straight facts from BMD.

Cheers.



+1 Peter
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 7:13 am

Peter and Pete.

I'm petty sure this is what we've been asking for all along. BMD do not seem interested in telling however.
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 7:14 am

PetePolyakov wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:I strongly believe that BMD should tell us on a regular basis (e.g.: weekly), what they know, as they know it, even if it's bad news or no news. Otherwise, the vacuum gets filled up with drivel like my posts. I'd rather read straight facts from BMD.

Cheers.



+1 Peter


+ + peter
we have to place the link to this forum in BMDCC sales pages, and the community grows up
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Edwin M

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 7:24 am

Costa wrote:Peter , Pete and Edwin

I'm petty sure this is what we've been asking for all along. BMD do not seem interested in telling however.


jejejeje
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 11:07 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:I don't actually see any promise in Grant's letter concerning further updates. The wording appears to be very careful. I don't know if it's overly-careful on purpose (e.g.: as if it were run past BMD's legal dept.) or just by happenstance (which seems far fetched to me).


You're absolutely correct Peter. IIRC, the "we'll let you know if anything changes" (don't call us, we'll call you) wording was in the update before this one and I can't find it anywhere. I wonder if the commitments specified in the latest update supercede earlier updates? Wouldn't that be convenient?
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 11:30 am

FYI: I edited my previous post slightly, to better convey my meaning, and also to specifically mention how BMD's encouraging BMCC pre-orders exacerbates the situation.

And, in case I "go missing" ... :-)

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php ... t&p=377625

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/367/230

http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/ ... ts-up-bmd/

... and on another forum whose name I dare not mention. :-/

Cheers.
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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Update on Camera Shipments

PostSat Oct 06, 2012 12:21 pm



Thanks, but I don't do Facebook (or Google docs), regrets. I'm just weird that way. :-)
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