Update on Camera Shipments

As much as I love shooting video in the rain (and singing & dancing in the rain, too ...), I just want to enter this into the BMCC record for historical posterity's sake ...

This year Portland, Oregon broke a 60-year weather record: Its driest Summer, with almost no rain in all of July, August and September.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... rd-br.html

That means we've had sunny days -- perfect outdoor shooting weather -- since early July, and there's still no rain forecast until next weekend.

As much as I've enjoyed the nice sunny weather this Summer, it's been hard not to think how much nicer it would have been to have had my BMCC to shoot in it!

It's also a bit maddening to know that about the same time it'll inevitably be raining buckets here (our rainy season starts soon), that (whoopie!) my BMCC will finally arrive (but sooner would be nice).

Grrrrrr ...

Now we return you to our regularly scheduled "BMCC Update" thread ...

Is there anyone who thinks that this camera will be released this year? They still haven't solved the part issue, and when/if they finally do, it will take a few months before it reaches re-sellers. Taking into consideration we're going into the holidays, and traditionally work comes to a complete standstill at that time, it's very easy to assume that at Q1 2013 is the goal.

If this concept camera gets mass produced, it's likely going to be a Jan/Feb release for those that ordered back in April (then who knows what will happen at NAB).

That's the best case scenario that I can imagine. I also think it's very likely that we'll hear that "good news, we improved the BMC!" and then this updated internals unit will get a 2013 release date. Could be spun with a "we listened to our customers" reasoning, while upping the price and keeping the pre-order spots.

I don't know, but if I don't get it by Christmas I'm going to cancel.

I found out from my supplier today that I am in position 67 on the preorder list. When I ordered back at the end of May I was 97... I had slipped down to 75 before the announcement of the MFT version. Food for thought.

When it gets into November...around Thanksgiving time...and I still don't have my camera, I'm going to scrape together another $3K and go another direction. Sure it doesn't have RAW and needs a HyperDeck to get 10 bit 4:2:2 recordings but ghost cameras don't have either. I also will be very disappointed.

Is there anyone who thinks that this camera will be released this year? They still haven't solved the part issue, and when/if they finally do, it will take a few months before it reaches re-sellers. ...

1. Once tested-good parts are at BMD's manufacturing facility, assembled & tested cameras should start going out to "re-sellers" immediately. After that it should only take between days & a couple of weeks for end-user customers to start receiving cameras.

2. In general, people who ordered cameras first (e.g.: in April) will likely receive their cameras before folks who placed orders later, with a few exceptions. It wouldn't surprise me if folks that ordered cameras well after that (>June?) might not receive their camera until early 2013.

My guess is #1 will begin happening before 2013, but that's just a guess.

Cheers.

mhood,
the question is if you don't go BMCC what do you go for? C100?
You could pretty much get a 5D mark iii and a BMCC for the price of a C100.
At this rate. If we don't find out good news this week, I'm gonna have to go with another option and wait on the BMCC for later.

C100. Like I said, I'd have to scrape up another $3K but you gotta do what you gotta do. I fully expect it will be available for actual purchase by Thanksgiving.

Right now the supplier is waiting on new glass. Let's make pretend we get the best news we can hope for and the supplier receives that new glass this week. There's a chance the glass will still have defects, and then we'd have to wait for them to re-evaluate the problem and wait again for another shipment. Let's make pretend that doesn't happen, and everything goes perfectly. Continuing our best case scenario, the supplier receives good glass and several weeks later the chips are created and tested. These are then sent to BMD who then has to assemble the cameras, and then test/calibrate them, it's now November. They start to ship them out to the distros. A week later they arrive, and we'll make pretend no one shuts down offices for Holidays and that shipments aren't delayed due to peak season, then the re-seller then receives the units and has to put them into inventory and send them out... in what would likely be close to or in Dec (in an ideal, everyone works overtime during holidays scenario).


We're a week away from mid October and the chip supplier hasn't even started making the chips.

We're a week away from mid October and the chip supplier hasn't even started making the chips.

We don't know that and BMD has yet to demonstrate any sense of obligation to keep us informed. They communicate status when they want to. We do know that "later this week" was September and the chip supplier should have been working on chips since the beginning of October. Who the heck knows?

The last update was that the supplier is waiting on glass, hoping that they solved the issue. This update ended with "We should know more details about shipping times once the new glass arrives at our supplier"

Has anyone heard any details about shipping times? Looks like strong evidence that the glass hasn't arrived, since there's been no update. I would absolutely assume that if BMD now had the glass problem solved and knew shipping dates a statement would have been made.

The last update was that the supplier is waiting on glass, hoping that they solved the issue. This update ended with "We should know more details about shipping times once the new glass arrives at our supplier"

Has anyone heard any details about shipping times? Very much looks like evidence the glass either hasn't arrived yet, or is still damaged.

You are assuming "We should know more details..." to mean "We will update the status when we know more details." I'm saying that has not been the standard procedure for BMD.

I would strongly disagree. It has been BMDs style to frequently update, some could argue over-hype, any good news. We heard consistently about units shipping out in Aug. It would be very out of character for the parts issue to have been solved and units going into development and not hearing any kind of update about shipping expectations, which they said they would have when they receive the glass.

If they still haven't received the glass, or the issue hasn't been solved, then I heave learned to expect that BMD would go silent. Which they are right now.

mhood,
if you have the cash, the C100 would certainly be a good way to go. You would have all the features that everyone expects like frame rates, in camera deleting, audio metering, etc. but also including high iso for low light and built in ND filters and 12 stops of dynamic range. I think people over estimate the need for RAW. I think certain projects would require it but unless you're a big production studio with huge servers for storage, the added cost of trying to do every project in RAW is not cost effective. RED Cameras are great but there's a reason professional productions still use DSLR's for a lot of situations. It just doesn't make sense to subject yourself to that work flow and pay for that kind of storage when it's not necessary. It can be overkill.

I would strongly disagree. It has been BMDs style to frequently update, some could argue over-hype, any good news. We heard consistently about units shipping out in Aug. It would be very out of character for the parts issue to have been solved and units going into development and not hearing any kind of update about shipping expectations, which they said they would have when they receive the glass.

If they still haven't received the glass, or the issue hasn't been solved, then I heave learned to expect that BMD would go silent. Which they are right now.

Look at it this way, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the PR team for a company. What would you do? Silence is more likely to be a sign of bad news than good news. Going public with updates that are anything short of re-assuring success are likely to cause the very important first round of buyers to jump ship as well as hurt the public confidence in your brand. Better to stay silent. If you had good news, you would broadcast it.

We don't even know that the glass issue was the only issue. It sounds like the perfect PR move because it's an issue that isn't your fault. It's an issue that is fixable. It's an issue that shouldn't cause too much worry. Projecting honesty also helps build confidence and faith.

I wish they would give us more info because it's only fair. For those of us debating how to invest our money in their product as a tool for work, we need to be informed. The client or the customer always needs to be informed so that they can make informed decisions. Keeping us in the dark for their own protection isn't fair even if it is understandable.

Blockbuster Trailer Voice:

Imagine a world where paying for several thousand dollars for a piece of hardware meant you actually received it.

All aboard the product release fail boat, please!

... Continuing our best case scenario, the supplier receives good glass and several weeks later the chips are created and tested. ...

You keep repeating things such as, "... receives good glass and several weeks later the chips are created ...", when there's no reason to believe it takes anywhere near that long to accomplish that task.

My guess is that once a sensor manufacturer receives good glass, it'll take them only a few days (less?) to start churning out tested-good sensor assemblies. It's careful work, but it's not rocket science.

I agree that no news might mean there's no good news, but it could also mean BMD has decided not to say anything until they've started camera production again. We don't know either way until BMD says or does something.

But meanwhile, I think you're being overly pessimistic about certain scenarios. For all we know, BMD could announce good (or bad) news later today, tomorrow -- or next month.

The longer this epic fail continues, the more sarcastic and pissed off I (we?) get!

Grant said that the day they receive sensors they'll have units built and beginning the QA testing.

... I'm going to scrape together another $3K and go another direction. Sure it doesn't have RAW and needs a HyperDeck to get 10 bit 4:2:2 recordings ...

Hi Marc: If you're referring to the C100 above, I'm fairly certain its HDMI output is 8-bit, not 10-bit. Am I mistaken about that?

If you record 8-bit with the Hyperdeck Shuttle, Ninja-2, etc., you still only end up with 8-bits worth of color information in a 10-bit file, with no improvement in color quality.

(Of course, there'll be far less motion-induced compression artifacts compared to the C100's internal codec due to the much higher data rates recorded by the external devices.)

Yes, the verdict's still out on exactly what's pumping out the HDMI on a C100 but the general consensus is that it is exactly what's coming out of a C300. I have worked with C300 footage (including some green screen) and consider it some very sweet stuff. 8 bit or 10 bit...I don't care...it's really nice looking stuff and easily enough for the corporate work that I do.

Would I rather have a BMC? Yes. I preordered in April and prepaid in full the end of July. I would love to learn to use the BMC in my work (just as I learned to use the 7D). But you've got to draw a line somewhere. I can always dump a C100 to get a BMC later if it proves to be all that. I'm really getting very tired of the games...in fact, it's becoming insulting to me. I start nearly every day surfing the forums hoping that this is the morning that I get my tracking number...I start nearly every day disappointed since my birthday (July 25th). It's getting close to feeling like a total fool...$3K is a bargain not to feel like an idiot.

I wonder how many sales BMD has lost to people cancelling...and how many they lose as time goes on

Depressing stuff!

You gotta wait for Santa.. that's it.
And: Only the good kids get the big presents.

I'm really getting very tired of the games...in fact, it's becoming insulting to me. I start nearly every day surfing the forums hoping that this is the morning that I get my tracking number...I start nearly every day disappointed since my birthday (July 25th). It's getting close to feeling like a total fool...

Same. I don't care about excuses anymore.

I'm thinking F3 with a recorder time.
Can pick up a new one for 7900 EUR (10K USD) right now from a liquidation sale.
Not bad when you consider it goes for 13,600 EUR here normally. (I'm in Europe obviously)
I have to say some of the best footage I have seen aside from the Alexa.
Great highlight rolloff, etc. Very tempting.

You gotta wait for Santa.. that's it.
And: Only the good kids get the big presents.

I think some of the good kids already got their presents early.

The rest of us will have to wait, apparently ...

I feel like everything has been said about three or four times ha - I worry about saying anything now.

Has anyone noticed that the activity on a lot of forums relating to the BMCC has long since died down?

The longer this epic fail continues ...

I believe you were joking (at least, the smilie in you post seemed to indicate you were joking), but not to split hairs:

RED never shipping what they originally promised (the "3K for $3K" Scarlet) -- even after something like a 3 year wait -- was a true epic fail. A fun word choice on your part, too.

What BMD has done thus far is a huge f*ckup, but doesn't come close to what RED did.

And, in case anyone out there thinks my accusing BMD of being responsible for a huge f*ckup is somehow equal to my making excuses for BMD, here's a clue: It's not.

Cheers.

... Has anyone noticed that the activity on a lot of forums relating to the BMCC has long since died down?

Of course. No reason to expect different.

If/when BMCCs start shipping again, I'd expect interest to perk up again, too. Seems fairly predictable.

I'm thinking F3 with a recorder time.
Can pick up a new one for 7900 EUR (10K USD) right now from a liquidation sale.
Not bad when you consider it goes for 13,600 EUR here normally. (I'm in Europe obviously)
I have to say some of the best footage I have seen aside from the Alexa.
Great highlight rolloff, etc. Very tempting.

That's cool.

But it's a backhanded compliment to BMD & the BMCC, but a compliment nonetheless, that you're considering the above pile 'o gear as the logical step up from -- or substitution for -- a BMCC.

It would be like saying, "I was hoping to buy this cool, new, small, inexpensive pickup truck, but since it's not available yet, the only logical choice is for me to buy this much bigger, more capable, and much more expensive dump truck."

Unless your original reasons for considering a BMCC are no longer valid (needs changed, etc.)?

Otherwise, it's apples & oranges.

Enjoy your new cam!

The comparisons to the Scarlet are getting tired. RED didn't set a release month, take pre-orders, and say the camera shipped when they had only made a handful of demo cams (there were 2/3rd Scarlets made in small numbers).

They kept everyone informed of what was going on and finished the camera (figuring out mass production), before trying to sell it.

If there was another company making the same exact camera as the BMC for 1-2k more, but had good customer service and met dates given, I would RUN to them instead. In my experiences with RED, they've gone above and beyond for their customers when it comes to support.

I'm thinking F3 with a recorder time.
Can pick up a new one for 7900 EUR (10K USD) right now from a liquidation sale.
Not bad when you consider it goes for 13,600 EUR here normally. (I'm in Europe obviously)
I have to say some of the best footage I have seen aside from the Alexa.
Great highlight rolloff, etc. Very tempting.

That's cool.

But it's a backhanded compliment to BMD & the BMCC, but a compliment nonetheless, that you're considering the above pile 'o gear as the logical step up from -- or substitution for -- a BMCC.

It would be like saying, "I was hoping to buy this cool, new, small, inexpensive pickup truck, but since it's not available yet, the only logical choice is for me to buy this much bigger, more capable, and much more expensive dump truck."

Unless your original reasons for considering a BMCC are no longer valid (needs changed, etc.)?

Otherwise, it's apples & oranges.

Enjoy your new cam!

Not a done deal yet.
But yes I do consider the BMC in the same territory.
In fact it is better in a sense for cinema, because the F3 is not even 2K, so scaling is more difficult.
Therefore, without the recorder and S-Log, the F3 wouldn't even be on the radar in my books normally.
But with it, wow!

The thing is, it's more important for me to be working than sitting around waiting for a camera.

... The thing is, it's more important for me to be working than sitting around waiting for a camera.

Makes perfect sense.

Cheers.

The thing is, it's more important for me to be working than sitting around waiting for a camera.

...or to continue to show up with my 7D and let the agency guys with their C300s get a leg up on me.

If/when BMCCs start shipping again...

Stop it! Just stop it! They never did "ship". No soup for you...three months!

I think we should send yoclay over to the Blackmagic armed with a camera and a microphone to find out what the scoop is. He did such and awesome job getting the details at IBC!!!

If/when BMCCs start shipping again...

Stop it! Just stop it! They never did "ship". No soup for you...three months!

I guess it depends on one's definition of "ship".

Based on what I've read, BMD shipped several dozen BMCCs, primarily to "thought leaders" (people like John Brawley, Frank Glencairn, Philip Bloom, Den Lennie, etc.) and a few, very few "regular" end-user customers. To the best of my knowledge, these BMCCs are "good" hardware (don't have the alleged defective sensor cover glass).

In my experience, the above is pretty much what all camera manufacturers do with the first cameras they build.

Unfortunately for BMD & the rest of us, the above is only as far they got, before they had to halt production allegedly due to the sensor glass problem. And they obviously ain't shipping now, that's for sure!

But as far as I'm concerned, BMD did ship BMCCs, just not very many of them.

Cheers.

Sending out a few beta cams for review and two or three remaining demo units out to customers (in a number that can be counted on one hand) is not a release.

If that can be considered a product launch then you could almost argue the fixed lens Scarlet "shipped" because they produced a few dozen example cams, or that all those weird concept cars at auto shows are "released" products, or that my kitchen that once made 12 cookies is a bakery.

The fact that you can name everyone who received the camera proves it has yet to begin production. The few units so far were "hand made".

You say "tomato", I say "tomahto".

Like I said, it depends on how you define the word "ship".

Plus, as far as we can tell, the BMCCs out there are final production units, not beta hardware, and not hand-made final prototypes. You have no evidence to the contrary.

Hardware was announce officially "locked" back in July, wasn't it?

Hardware was announce officially "locked" back in July, wasn't it?

Back at "shipping date" in September, it actually sounded like they were still doing beta testing after the end of September.

Dang, I just read all 34 pages of this forum. Probably going to have some nightmares tonight haha. I WAS planning on shooting my senior seminar film project on the BMCC in early February...but I put my order in on Oct 1st I got word of this sensor glass problem on the 8th and had noooooo Idea people were waiting since May for their cameras. Guess i'll be shooting on my 5dmkii...again

*cross fingers* I only hope the waiting line is somewhat shorter from cancelations.

Respect for reading 34 pages of our drivel!

Respect for reading 34 pages of our drivel!

+1

blackmagic where are you?????????? i want bad news rather than no news!!!

Hi everyone!

I have just received a mail from http://www.creativevideo.co.uk that says that the camera is out, and they are planning an Open Day...the link is this: http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=events

Sorry for my bad english!

I have received the same thing.. I'm not sure it means they have stock, so not quite jumping for joy BUT it must mean they have had communication with BMC which is a really positive thing!!

I got the same email and it says 'at long last the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera has arrived'.

They mean their demo unit - its just an open day like other retailers have had. Nothing to get excited about.

I spoke to them yesterday and they said they had no updates to speak of.

But, maybe, today they could have some news, idk...

Nope just got off the phone with them..

No delivery date.. 152 ef's on back order and 52 jumped ship to the MFT. unlikely to have free stock before the new year was the quote i got!!

Sorry all

I'm going to the 14:00 session at Brentford CVP on the 18th of October:) Probably the only time I'll actually get to SEE one:)

My prediction is we'll see shipping starting up again in the next week to two weeks, and if not BMD will maker another statement.

My prediction is we'll see shipping starting up again in the next week to two weeks, and if not BMD will maker another statement.

I don't think anyone can predict BMD's business decisions, so odd are they. Obviously Grant Petty know's we are waiting for a response and reading he's obviously reading these comments, but we still get no reply. It's a bit upsetting to be treated that way... basically ignored. It's a tad petty, no pun intended;)