2x2,5 or 1x4k

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JeanPaul

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2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 9:19 am

I am in doubt.

Is it worth waiting for the 4k. Or is it better to buy 2 2,5 to get that extra angle?

Will the difference in the bigger sensor really show?
Could it be that the 4k material will be hard to process if you don't have the right computer?
As it is now i do my videos on my laptop. Have a retina 2.7 with 16GB ram. And FCPX runs smoothly as it is right now.
But will I be forced to go stationary if I move to 4k? Will I be forced to down-resize my frames to be able to actually process them?

Dont know so much in videomaking. But it must be the same as with still that whats behind and infront of the camera that is more important than the actual house. Compositions and lenses.

Crap....I really want 4k...but...do i just gaze at the big 4k?..when the difference perhaps isnt that big...
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Darko Djerich

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 9:42 am

2.5K and $2K worth of lenses,this camera is game changer where 4K is not really
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adamroberts

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 11:00 am

You MacBook Pro would be fine editing 4K ProRes. It would struggle with RAW tho.

Most delivery today is 1080p so the 4K is over kill in most cases. Sure the 1080p image downscaled from 4K should be shaper but the 2.5k is already too sharp in most cases.

Buying 2 BMCC would more than cover your delivery needs for the next few years. 4K is only just starting to roll out so it'll be a way off before it the main distribution format. You could pay off those cameras long before 4K becomes "the standard".

I'd get 2 BMCC's. One MFT and one EF. That way are covered with IS on the EF mount for hand held work and still have the versatility of the the MFT you use a wider array of glass.

If you want the Super35 look add a Metabones Speedbooser to the MFT BMCC and you are sorted.

I currently have the BMCC EF and BMPCC. I also have a BMPC4K on preorder but with the recent price drop I'm seriously considering getting the BMCC MFT rather.
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akshaymadan

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 4:36 pm

Buy a 2.5k and a pocket cinema camera, both MFT mount. Going for 4k might be too early at this stage. The option of RAW is actually there only on the 2.5k, both the pocket and 4k have compressed RAW.
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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 5:23 pm

adamroberts wrote:You MacBook Pro would be fine editing 4K ProRes. It would struggle with RAW tho.

Most delivery today is 1080p so the 4K is over kill in most cases. Sure the 1080p image downscaled from 4K should be shaper but the 2.5k is already too sharp in most cases.

Buying 2 BMCC would more than cover your delivery needs for the next few years. 4K is only just starting to roll out so it'll be a way off before it the main distribution format. You could pay off those cameras long before 4K becomes "the standard".


I currently have the BMCC EF and BMPCC. I also have a BMPC4K on preorder but with the recent price drop I'm seriously considering getting the BMCC MFT rather.



Thats my thought too. And in my opinion, one of the reasons of the delay of 4K (to sell more 2.5k). But its probably what Adam said. You will use the 2.5k pretty enough before really needing a 4k.
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Greg Huson

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 5:34 pm

The advantage of the 4k is field of view - you get to use more of the lens. That's it, from my point of view. 4k has advantages for acquisition- chiefly reframing - but until the camera is shipping and actually available, who really knows what the picture will look like? (Except may John Brawley....)

We've shot two cameras with the BMCC EF - and I LOVE having that in editorial. (although I don't own two - we borrow or rent - and just got my pocket last week so haven't used it enough to have an opinion.)

I think it depends on what you're shooting, of course, but, in spite of its shortcomings, the BMCC has been great for us. Keep in mind that you'll probably be able to sell the second Resolve dongle, too - though I wouldn't expect full retail.

If you're ready to shoot now - and convinced you're going to use black magic - the answer is self-evident. Get the camera you can actually buy now. If you're doing anything with it, you can buy a 4k, too, when it actually comes out. Same support gear.

Remember you're going to need some support gear!! Lenses, an audio recorder, some kind of battery system, etc. - same stuff you'd need if you were shooting DSLR. So don't forget to budget for that if you don't already have that gear.
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georgetsirogiannis

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 6:35 pm

ghuson wrote:The advantage of the 4k is field of view - you get to use more of the lens. That's it, from my point of view.

+1

If BMCC had a Super 35 sensor, I'd go for it. I could be okay with the absence of global shutter and 4K, just like I'm okay with my current camera, which is a humble Canon 60D. The only real reason I want to change my camera right now is the dynamic range, RAW, as well as the overall sharpness of the image, which you understand is not that great on 60D.

60D's sensor is slightly bigger than Super 35 (1.6 crop factor versus 1.7 on the BMPC4K). And I still have some problems because I'm an indie filmmaker shooting my films in real setups that we change a bit to be practical for shooting (friends' houses etc), which means in most cases there isn't enough room to take my camera further away from the subject. Given that and given I already have EF lenses that I don't want to change, I wouldn't be happy to go even further to a 2.3 crop factor with the BMCC.
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Manu Gil

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 7:17 pm

georgetsirogiannis wrote:
ghuson wrote:The advantage of the 4k is field of view - you get to use more of the lens. That's it, from my point of view.

+1

If BMCC had a Super 35 sensor, I'd go for it. I could be okay with the absence of global shutter and 4K, just like I'm okay with my current camera, which is a humble Canon 60D. The only real reason I want to change my camera right now is the dynamic range, RAW, as well as the overall sharpness of the image, which you understand is not that great on 60D.

60D's sensor is slightly bigger than Super 35 (1.6 crop factor versus 1.7 on the BMPC4K). And I still have some problems because I'm an indie filmmaker shooting my films in real setups that we change a bit to be practical for shooting (friends' houses etc), which means in most cases there isn't enough room to take my camera further away from the subject. Given that and given I already have EF lenses that I don't want to change, I wouldn't be happy to go even further to a 2.3 crop factor with the BMCC.

BMCC=2.277X / BMCC mft + SpeedBooster=1.6X / BMPC4K=1.7X (Fullframme 24x36 reference) ;)
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Shawn Miller

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 7:31 pm

ghuson wrote:The advantage of the 4k is field of view - you get to use more of the lens. That's it, from my point of view. 4k has advantages for acquisition- chiefly reframing - but until the camera is shipping and actually available, who really knows what the picture will look like? (Except may John Brawley....)


I think Rick Lang has pointed this out a few times... but BMCC + Metabones Speedbooster will give you a wider FOV than the BMPC:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11571&p=73222&hilit=%2Abooster#p73222

Rick Lang wrote:You can see the effect of the Metabones Speed Boost is that the apparent focal length is reduced almost as if you were on a S35 sensor. Actually it is virtually identical to a Canon APS-C sensor which is a little smaller than S35. Where this is interesting is that the BMPC4K sensor is actually smaller than S35 and APS-C so you actually end up with a wider frame using the MSB on the BMCC MFT! And you gain a full stop of aperture.


The BMPC looks great if you really need a ton of spatial resolution and global shutter... but I'm not convinced (yet) that 4k isn't the new 3D. No doubt we'll see a slew of new, somewhat inexpensive "Ultra HD" tv sets this Xmas season, but will we see the distribution/broadcast side ramp up fast enough for the general public to REALLY want 4k in the home?

That said, I will most likely end up with another BMCC and a BMPC when all is said and done. 4k seems like it will come in handy for shots requiring set extensions, or shots that require fairly wide DR and can have ZERO rolling shutter artifacts. :-)

Shawn

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georgetsirogiannis

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 7:44 pm

Manu Gil wrote:
georgetsirogiannis wrote:
ghuson wrote:The advantage of the 4k is field of view - you get to use more of the lens. That's it, from my point of view.

+1

If BMCC had a Super 35 sensor, I'd go for it. I could be okay with the absence of global shutter and 4K, just like I'm okay with my current camera, which is a humble Canon 60D. The only real reason I want to change my camera right now is the dynamic range, RAW, as well as the overall sharpness of the image, which you understand is not that great on 60D.

60D's sensor is slightly bigger than Super 35 (1.6 crop factor versus 1.7 on the BMPC4K). And I still have some problems because I'm an indie filmmaker shooting my films in real setups that we change a bit to be practical for shooting (friends' houses etc), which means in most cases there isn't enough room to take my camera further away from the subject. Given that and given I already have EF lenses that I don't want to change, I wouldn't be happy to go even further to a 2.3 crop factor with the BMCC.

BMCC=2.277X / BMCC mft + SpeedBooster=1.6X / BMPC4K=1.7X (Fullframme 24x36 reference) ;)

Is there an MTF to EF Speed Booster?
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Manu Gil

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 8:03 pm

Currently no. EF electronic needs. In a passive mount would not work. Maybe in the future.
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Jules Bushell

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 8:07 pm

Shawn Miller wrote:The BMPC looks great if you really need a ton of spatial resolution and global shutter... but I'm not convinced (yet) that 4k isn't the new 3D.

Shawn

For me BMPC4K means I can shoot cinema wide e.g. 2:39:1 by just cropping the image and still have great resolution. Easier to get wide lenses with an S35 sized sensor. Global shutter is better for VFX shots and of course for fast movement.

Yeah, so it's a practical advantage.

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Scott Pultz

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 8:48 pm

The 4K camera should have less moire and aliasing, the only major issues that the BMCC presents (except for rolling shutter if you care)
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Shawn Miller

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 8:57 pm

Jules Bushell wrote: For me BMPC4K means I can shoot cinema wide e.g. 2:39:1 by just cropping the image and still have great resolution.


To be fair, you can do this now. Even 1080p gives you enough spatial resolution to crop to 2:39 or 2:1.

Jules Bushell wrote:Easier to get wide lenses with an S35 sized sensor.


That was my point for bringing up Rick Lang's post. BMCC MFT + Metanones Speedbooster gives you a wider FOV than the BMPC, so the wide angle lens issue isn't an issue anymore.

Jules Bushell wrote:Global shutter is better for VFX shots and of course for fast movement.

Yeah, so it's a practical advantage.


Yes I agree, and I believe I even pointed that out. :-)
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Shawn Miller

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 9:05 pm

Scott Pultz wrote:The 4K camera should have less moire and aliasing, the only major issues that the BMCC presents (except for rolling shutter if you care)


I don't think we know yet, it may be the same or worse... hopefully, it will be better. :-)

Shawn
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georgetsirogiannis

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostThu Sep 26, 2013 9:34 pm

Manu Gil wrote:Currently no. EF electronic needs. In a passive mount would not work. Maybe in the future.

That's why I can't help but buy the 4K camera over BMCC. I have EF lenses that I don't want to change :)
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JeanPaul

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Re: 2x2,5 or 1x4k

PostFri Sep 27, 2013 12:16 pm

Thanks for all great advice.

I Cancelled my 4k order and placed another one with 2 2.5k instead. Have them next week..

2 blackmagic cc & Canon 1dx should work.... :).....for now haha

will propably put my 4k-glasses on again in half a year

cheers

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