Form factor

Let me start by saying that I don't own a BMCC.....yet. I love the idea of s16, raw, 13 stop camera that does everything a lot of people want a camera to do.

Now there is one thing that doesn't fit the idea of the perfect camera for me and I'm sure many others.

Since when people started shooting with DSLRs, many camera and accessory manufacturers seam to believe that everyone want a camera that have the same form factor as a DSLR. The problem is that most people that use DSLRs for video do not have that much experience shooting video professionally. So to be able to shoot with one of these newer cameras one has to have this enormous, heavy and expensive rig. For a long time now cameras have had pretty much the same form. That is its balanced on the shoulder, it has a viewfinder which act as one of the points the is used to stabilize the camera when shooting hand-held. Now.... many cameras that do have viewfinders today (not ENG/EFP cameras) have the viewfinder located in the wrong place. It's in the back of the camera! How are you supposed to hold those cameras? Like a Hasselblad? As far as I see it ARRI went right with the Alexa. And you can build an EPIC into a good camera.

Now what went wrong in the design of the BMCC? And I don't mean the technical details (because these are great) but the form of it.

When you guys at Blackmagic are designing the next BMCC, please consider a form that is closer to the Alexa. There is a reason why DOPs (and lots others) love it. It's not only the IQ that is similar to film but it looks and feels like a camera.

I hope I don't come across as to negative . I love the work you've done with the camera and lots of other products as well.

I disagree.
Grant repeatedly said that the choices in making the camera were for a high resolution, high contrast range camera that you can grab and go.
The Arri Alexa is great, no ones arguing that. But when designing the BMCC, they wanted to make it so that it was easy to take with you where ever you went without having to lug around tons of equipment.
There's places you can take the BMCC that you can't take something with the body of an Alexa.
John Brawley had to do a very up close emotional scene and opted to use the BMCC for that because it was less intrusive to the actors. How about doing a car scene? Or some run n' gun style shooting? Or for budget filmmakers (who it was designed for) who don't have money for permits and need to run in, pop off a shot and get out? There's no way you can take a huge rig with you (or if you did you'd be hating yourself). The small body of the BMCC works perfectly for what it was designed for.
I love the idea of being able to stick it in a small bag or in my backpack with a lens or two and be set to shoot beautiful images without a huge and cumbersome rig.

Now there is one thing that doesn't fit the idea of the perfect camera for me and I'm sure many others

I think that's the point. At the price, size and quality it's at, people will be using it in all sorts of different ways. I think it was a good choice to have a more blank slate and leave it for people to rig up if they need to.

Maybe a good idea is a docking station with some sort of Alexa type housing could sell well for those who can afford it. I don't need it as I've got bits and bobs like ext.monitor, follow focus, batteries, Beachtek etc, I plan to attach to BMCC.

Jules

I also like the form factor of the thing. It just looks pretty swish. If you want to pad it out to have the form factor of a full ENG camera, then a decent rig only costs about £300 on Ebay. But this way you also have the ability to use it naked if you need the small form factor as discussed above. It really is the best of both worlds.

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/79-mod ... 80231.html

i probably will get this one, slap on sdi vf and all is nice.

i have my doubts with big and heavy gages at the moment.

so with this setup it seems that form factor is not a problem or is it ?

also see video here:

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/58-foc ... 80415.html

rig has that already included.

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/79-mod ... 80231.html

i probably will get this one, slap on sdi vf and all is nice.

i have my doubts with big and heavy gages at the moment.

so with this setup it seems that form factor is not a problem or is it ?

also see video here:

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/58-foc ... 80415.html

rig has that already included.

There's always a chance BMD's designers & engineers may surprise us with some future "ergonomic" camera, where the form of the camera (say, its ability to sit on ones shoulder w/o 3rd party add ons) will be a priority.

IMHO, I don't think anything "went wrong" concerning the ergonomics of the BMCC. If you look at most of BMD's product line, or more importantly, their pricing strategy, it's clear that low-cost, high-function is very important to them.

Given the $3K US target price for the BMCC, I suspect just about every aspect of the BMCC's design was "shaped" by its price. Changing anything, even a seemingly tiny detail, would probably result in increasing the cam's price or weakening/eliminating other feature(s).

So, sure, BMD could design many different cameras, including a shoulder-mount camera, and maybe they will someday. But those cameras will likely either cost a lot more or have to wait for technology to advance to the point where it's more in line with BMD's pricing model.

Meanwhile, given the technology available to BMD 2-3 years ago (when they designed the BMCC), I'm glad they designed the BMCC, because I can afford a $3K BMCC now (well, "soon").

As for "expensive" shoulder-mount cams: Been there, done that, don't ever want to do that again. But that's just me. Of course, if BMD wants to ship a relatively inexpensive shoulder-mount cam that performs at least as well as the promised BMCC, well that I'd like to hear about, too.

But my preference would be for BMD to design modular cams: Separate the LCD from the cam body, or put the LCD & recorder in one unit and the sensor in another, etc. "Shoulder mount" rigs & parts are easy to for us end users to put together ourselves. Just give us the electronics in forms we can work with & afford.

Cheers.

..Maybe a good idea is a docking station with some sort of Alexa type housing could sell well for those who can afford it. I don't need it as I've got bits and bobs like ext.monitor, follow focus, batteries, Beachtek etc, I plan to attach to BMCC.

Jules

I like that idea
I wonder how far off we are from a Meizler Module

i see hi modularity is better than alexa body.

gives you more options.

I absolutely see your point in having a small camera that is ready to shoot. I do a lot of documentary filming where I have to have a light kit that is easy move with. My point is...that with rods, handles, battery plates and external viewfinders on magic arms etc, your not that light and smooth any more. And with most of these cameras-rigs they get really front heavy. So much so that It will be difficult to go hand-held an entire day of shooting. As for using the camera just as it is, grabbing it like a DSLR and looking at the LCD in the back. That rarely generates stable shots and it's not very ergonomic. While for example a Sony NEXEA50UH
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadc ... NEXEA50UH/
is roughly the same size as the BMCC. But I'm sure that handling it is smoother. On the other hand I wouldn't say no to being able to customising the camera for my needs. so having a foundation to build from is still a good idea.
As for the look of it. Sure it's pretty. Although that doesn't really matter. One thing that does matter is having buttons that are accessible while shooting. Not having to go in to menus to change stuff like aperture, white balance, focus assist, zebras and so on.
The price of the BMCC is ridiculously good. I think the camera is great value. That being said, price isn't everything. Today there are many cheap cameras Panasonic AF100, Sony NEX100 and many more. None of them have the box design. They are getting there but still have some to go.
I added a sketch to how such a camera might look. Its not pretty I know:)

I disagree, I'm rather fond of the BMCC design. Sure it's not the "typical" look of an ENG camera but I would rather have something small I can fit anywhere and carry in a small bag if I so choose.
The "ENG" style is just to big and cumbersome.
It's nice having options.

but with rig you can take your camera out fast and go handheld if needed.

with big body that is not possible?

I didn't mean to sound like I prefer a big heavy ENG/EFP camera. Rather the general form of a ENG/EFP camera. With a viewfinder on the side, v-mount battery at the back, controls on the side along with LCD (that camera assistant can easily operate). and for balance have it long rather than wide. Of course it's a great size as it is.

Margus Voll. That is an interesting take on the follow focus. They seem to make solid things. But it's also a one of those huge rigs for a very small camera. When operating the camera on a film set, if its not to confined, that will probably be all right, if you have a viewfinder as well. Since you cant really turn your head to watch the screen on the back of the camera. For work without a focus puller it's probably quit good.

yes i looked at it as standalone rig wo focus puller. seems great and tooling and engineering is also right.

what is also really important is that they state there is no play in follow focus.
Some cheaper solutions seem useless as they play a lot or bog down.

And yes i was thinking about it with sdi evf.

Will probably get one for testing it out.

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/79-modula-9-8680177980231.html

also see video here:

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/58-foc ... 80415.html

rig has that already included.

This seems so well thought out and functional for one camera operator! Really is there anything comparable? Price for the entire rig seems high but it would seem a great solution for single operators. Thanks, Margus.

I bought a Follow Focus from Edelkrone and it´s great... unless you want to use it with a Mattebox... A little detail they don´t bother to tell you.

Its completely useless in most lenses because the gearbox protudes too much so you can´t pull your mattebox all the way to the lens.
I contacted them and they said they were aware of it. I contacted them again to ask if they had any options to solve this issue and they told me to buy their rig... wich obviously... i didn´t. I´m very happy with my Vocas one.

Can you find the 5D Mk II or Marco Solorio

Yah..... just grab and go

Re:
Can you find the 5D Mk II or Marco Solorio

Yah..... just grab and go
ATTACHMENTS

5D MK II .jpg (316.08 KiB)

Awsome

That picture says it all. I don't know what production that was, but it looks like they are professionals. Maybe some of you guys, that don't have the funds to buy every single camera gadget out there, think that my rig doesn't look like that. But I'm also sure that a lot of you like having a matte box because it looks cool.

A feature film sort of camera rig is great when you have the people to operate it.

But in the other end of the spectrum, when you shoot a documentary or something else with limited budget and time, you really want a camera that you can just pull out of the bag and start recording.

And that is way easier with a the important stuff already on the camera. Now some of you might think that why don't this guy just get an old ENG-camera. I love the idea of having a camera that works with still lenses and have the dynamic range and raw-format of the BMCC.

I think mattebox is fundamental. Even more if you´re not using top of the line lenses with best anti-glare coatings. And even then, it makes a huge difference when you´re shooting in the sun.

I never take mine off.

My last post was a bit unclear. I blame it on language problems .

Yes....a matte box is often a good thing. I just meant that many of new camera owners like a huge rig because it look good or "professional". If you where looking for a small setup to take out of your bag "when on a vacation or something like that" a matte box isn't a very good thing (because its BIG) In that situation the lens hood on your stil lens will do just fine.

It's nice to not have everything on the camera when going handheld. For example using the RED one handheld always made me consider what had to be on and what didnt have to be there. What rods to use carbon or steel, what lens, LCD or evf and so on. All that was because the camera and all the accessories was so heavy.

In the end I just want a camera that is easy to use and with images that comes out nice.

http://www.edelkrone.com/e-store/79-modula-9-8680177980231.html

i probably will get this one, slap on sdi vf and all is nice.

i have my doubts with big and heavy gages at the moment.

so with this setup it seems that form factor is not a problem or is it ?

.........

I have a modula 3 which I bought for my 5DM3 system, but now I am planning to adapt it to my BMCC (when I get it) I will post pictures to share the fit/form.

REDcam.jpg (184.68 KiB) Viewed 9887 times

Many asking for a modular camera system for future major updates, let us ask ourselves how many piece of equipment that we can do major electronic, optical and mechanical upgrades these days ?, almost ZERO, why ?, because just in the electronics field alone components gets smaller in size, higher in speed, lower in power consumption and lower in price, it is not worth it to upgrade a camera, buy it, use it for 3-4 years and move on.
My ideal camera is the one you can put on the shoulder very comfortably, hardly any cables, rods, cages and monitors attached to it.
BMD camera will be the king when it comes to tight spaces like in cars elevators and any small area

Some companies started to change

I think there is nothing wrong with the form factor of the BMCC, in fact I prefer that it is like this. This is a "Cinema" camera, so expect to treat it as one and spend some money on kitting it out with a rig.

I want a camera that starts small and you can build it up using a rig into whatever works at the time, whether it's on a tripod, handheld, on a jib or in a fridge, or whatever. You can always make a camera bigger, but there's no way to make a camera smaller than its base form factor.

Improve the ergonomics, yes please do, but don't make it any bigger just for the sake of it. Looking to the future, if it had to be made bigger for a legitimate reason like accommodating cooling for a new Super35 size sensor, then fair enough.