No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

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rick.lang

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostWed Nov 06, 2013 9:06 pm

Darryl Gregory wrote:I'm just kidding of course, It was a brilliant post mostly about Sensors size and RAW and more, It was long but informative, but it was a little bit on the negative/ranting side, and that is why I think he deleted it, Well that and the pint or 3 he (May Have) had before he decided to post it :lol:


John Brawley doesn’t drink… at least he didn’t drink before that deleted post, but maybe he was upset enough to make an exception.

Sorry most of us missed the rant as John is always a great read regardless of the few words he may have regretted posting. Wish he had just edited out the bits he thought were best left unsaid. He has a lot of fans here with his selfless and generous sharing (as do several of the other professional cinematographers).
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Hugh Sweeney (Huey)

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostThu Nov 07, 2013 2:28 pm

Thanks for the info, I got some great tips from you all. I won't go quoting anyones posts here as you made so many valid points but safe to say it's a tough dilemma for sure. It's not really fair to compare the BMCC and 5D3 to each other when you think about it. If I was doing more stills work the 5d would surely be the choice but for now the 60d is 'professional enough' to cover most of what I do as it's mostly product stuff in relation to my design work. I'm not out doing weddings or events where I need to carry 2 camera's.

I know the BMCC has it's issues as Joe just mentioned but it's that RAW / prores workflow that I want to get into. The fact that I have the ef lenses is the main problem. And I don't have wide lenses. The widest I have is the new Sigma 18-35. My 100mm will be like a 230mm on the BMCC so unless I get a tokina everything will be cropped a fair bit. Some of the lenses are new and I need them for the photography so I can't just switch over to manual glass. And such a shame not to be able to use the decent lenses I have. I would get the mft if I knew the lenses would work with an adaptor even if I had to set the aperture on the 60d first - can anyone gimme info on this?

The 4K is the ideal answer but then that's pie in the sky for now :). Promised last July eh? :mrgreen: Some of you were saying I mightn't have enough storage. I have a brand new i7 fusion iMac and one 4tb raid. I'd need to get more raids but initially I guess I'll have to conserve clips. I'll cross that bridge so to speak.

Honestly, if money wasn't so tight I'd just go and get the ef and work away until the 4k eventually comes but for now I'm being careful that I get the right one.

On JB's post it was a good read alright. The basic jist of it was 'since when was full frame the industry standard?' (well that was what I gathered from it)

Hugh
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Haakon Sundry

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostThu Nov 07, 2013 11:52 pm

Huey wrote:On JB's post it was a good read alright. The basic jist of it was 'since when was full frame the industry standard?' (well that was what I gathered from it)

It's not, of course, but we should always aim for something better. Digital video shooters would still be capturing interlaced SD footage if we were content to rest on "standards." Film was locked by physical properties for close to a century, but we aren't shooting film anymore. We have the luxury to shoot at any aspect ratio we want at the click of a button. "Super 35mm" is as arbitrary a size as anything else. We should be grateful there are larger sensors slowly becoming more readily available and ditch the smaller stuff as soon as possible. Full-frame on the 5D is great; it's just their awful codec and the way they deal with the footage that makes it such a poor choice for doing video work. The RAW hacks show what the camera might be capable of, but like a lot of other companies, they are dragging their feet on bringing out those improvements. There's no doubt in my mind, however, that in another decade full frame will be the new "standard" (or whatever you want to call it). And we'll probably have to go through another set of arguments discussion at that point to move forward once again. Fortunately, it will happen regardless of those who are uncomfortable with change.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 am

rick.lang wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:I'm just kidding of course, It was a brilliant post mostly about Sensors size and RAW and more, It was long but informative, but it was a little bit on the negative/ranting side, and that is why I think he deleted it, Well that and the pint or 3 he (May Have) had before he decided to post it :lol:


John Brawley doesn’t drink… at least he didn’t drink before that deleted post, but maybe he was upset enough to make an exception.

Sorry most of us missed the rant as John is always a great read regardless of the few words he may have regretted posting. Wish he had just edited out the bits he thought were best left unsaid. He has a lot of fans here with his selfless and generous sharing (as do several of the other professional cinematographers).


I beg to differ, I think there are a few pics of JB drinking a pint or 3 on the interweb :mrgreen:
But yes he is a kind and generous man, Although he never accepted a direct apology from me, after several attempts from me, I still hold no grudge because he is on the flip side of the planet, and maybe that makes him see things upside down! :lol:
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Owen

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 7:35 am

In the time since Huey started this thread I've ordered and received my BMCC and so far I'm glad I made the choice to pick one up as a stop-gap solution while waiting for the 4K.

I started my filmmaking career with a DVX100 and the good old 16x9 anamorphic adapter, moved to an HVX200 with the original Red Rock M2 adapter, then over to a 7D, then the AF100. Each camera more than paid for itself and I've got at least one (if not more) feature length projects on regular TV broadcast rotations worldwide from each camera. Looking back, that's rather ridiculous. For as much as we all nitpick these insanely affordable rigs, each and every one of them has been capable of amazing things.

I'm pleased with my two days of tests on the BMCC and am really looking forward to the 4K version. The important part is knowing the quirks before diving in, but that has been the case for many many years. I'm pulling stills from the DNG's straight into Photoshop that I could realistically use for packaging and promo art. Sure, I'll still shoot higher megapixel stills on set with an SLR, but some of these will most definitely come in handy as well!

I have nothing else to add except to point out that I just picked up a camera capable of shooting RAW 2.5k footage for less than the price of the Panasonic DVX100 in 2003. In ten years we've come further than I ever imagined. The most shocking thing to me is that I now buy hard drives in bundles of ten. :lol:
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 8:06 am

Owen wrote:In the time since Huey started this thread I've ordered and received my BMCC and so far I'm glad I made the choice to pick one up as a stop-gap solution while waiting for the 4K.

I started my filmmaking career with a DVX100 and the good old 16x9 anamorphic adapter, moved to an HVX200 with the original Red Rock M2 adapter, then over to a 7D, then the AF100. Each camera more than paid for itself and I've got at least one (if not more) feature length projects on regular TV broadcast rotations worldwide from each camera. Looking back, that's rather ridiculous. For as much as we all nitpick these insanely affordable rigs, each and every one of them has been capable of amazing things.

I'm pleased with my two days of tests on the BMCC and am really looking forward to the 4K version. The important part is knowing the quirks before diving in, but that has been the case for many many years. I'm pulling stills from the DNG's straight into Photoshop that I could realistically use for packaging and promo art. Sure, I'll still shoot higher megapixel stills on set with an SLR, but some of these will most definitely come in handy as well!

I have nothing else to add except to point out that I just picked up a camera capable of shooting RAW 2.5k footage for less than the price of the Panasonic DVX100 in 2003. In ten years we've come further than I ever imagined. The most shocking thing to me is that I now buy hard drives in bundles of ten. :lol:


And not just any Hard Drives, you now need 10 or 20 3TB HDD's just to store your personnel home videos :lol:
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Owen

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 8:12 am

Ha! Glad to see I'm not the only one who insists on shooting home videos with my "work" camera. It's for posterity!
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Mark Davies

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 8:26 am

It's not the hack though. The real weak link is capturing the information. What I would love to see is a CF card adapter that plugs into the 53d card slot and out to an SSD drive like the Black Magic. Once you can be sure of no dropped frames or problems due to writing then I think the canon becomes a better proposition.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 8:44 am

Mark2929 wrote:It's not the hack though. The real weak link is capturing the information. What I would love to see is a CF card adapter that plugs into the 53d card slot and out to an SSD drive like the Black Magic. Once you can be sure of no dropped frames or problems due to writing then I think the canon becomes a better proposition.



What first comes to my mind after reading your post is...Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze lyrics,
as in you must be high and kiss the sky! :lol:

Sorry Mark :|
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Mark Davies

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 9:36 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
Mark2929 wrote:It's not the hack though. The real weak link is capturing the information. What I would love to see is a CF card adapter that plugs into the 53d card slot and out to an SSD drive like the Black Magic. Once you can be sure of no dropped frames or problems due to writing then I think the canon becomes a better proposition.



What first comes to my mind after reading your post is...Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze lyrics,
as in you must be high and kiss the sky! :lol:

Sorry Mark :|

Don't be sorry be jealous.
Mark Davies
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 9:46 am

Mark2929 wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:
Mark2929 wrote:It's not the hack though. The real weak link is capturing the information. What I would love to see is a CF card adapter that plugs into the 53d card slot and out to an SSD drive like the Black Magic. Once you can be sure of no dropped frames or problems due to writing then I think the canon becomes a better proposition.



What first comes to my mind after reading your post is...Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze lyrics,
as in you must be high and kiss the sky! :lol:

Sorry Mark :|

Don't be sorry be jealous.


Yeah, I guess :arrow: But why use one card to record to another?
My brain shuts down thinking of such nonsense, It should only take "one card" to rule them all.

Image
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Mark Davies

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 11:15 am

What first comes to my mind after reading your post is...Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze lyrics,
as in you must be high and kiss the sky! :lol:

Sorry Mark :|

Don't be sorry be jealous.

Yeah, I guess :arrow: But why use one card to record to another?
My brain shuts down thinking of such nonsense, It should only take "one card" to rule them all.


Open your mind to the world of possibilities young Darryl. Think of an adapter shaped like a CF card with thru put lead to connect to an SSD drive so that you record straight from the camera via the adapter. Surely someone could make one of these.
Mark Davies
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Josh Snyder

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostFri Nov 08, 2013 12:52 pm

Why not Gh2? It's cheap and has sharper image than 5D MKIII RAW. 5D RAW is better for post grading though, but if you shoot well GH2 can be graded well too. Imo GH2 looks more like film than 5D. Example:
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Kofa

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostSun Nov 10, 2013 6:26 pm

Here's my 2 cents Huey. And we're in the same boat. I had my 60D for over 2 years and it served me well. I jumped on the full frame bandwagon and got a 6D, which I love, but honestly the footage doesn't compare to my BMPCC.

I wish I didn't jump the gun and just held out for the BMPCC as I know my 6D will not get much use now that I have it.

My advice...skip the 5D3 and get the BMPCC. This will introduce you to the ProRes workflow and you'll be pleased with the footage. And when the 4k cinema camera comes out, you can get that and you'll have the pocket as an excellent B camera and still have the 60d for stills. And if u run ML on the 60D, now u have a third camera just for pick up shots where audio is not an issue. Best of all 3 worlds.
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bhook

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostSun Nov 10, 2013 7:10 pm

Why aren't you guys recommending a BMCCEF for now to hold one over until the BMPC4K is available? Why would you want to buy lenses twice?
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Hugh Sweeney (Huey)

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Re: No 4K so BMCC or 5D3?

PostThu Nov 14, 2013 1:24 am

Cheers Guys! all good points again. You're right misterkofa a second still cam just won't get used for the type of stuff I'm doing. Glad the BMCC is working out Owen. As much as I'd like the MF mount, the EF with the new SIGMA 18-35 should be a good combo and at least I don't have to get new lenses / adaptors. I don't like to shoot too wide anyway. If you look at film scenes, a lot of shots are quite close in (dialogue shots etc). I think I'll make a move pretty soon!

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