Afterglow

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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tompierrepont

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 10:16 am

Thanks JB. I can't wait to try then out.
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Kamel

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 10:26 am

Extreme beauty. This is all that I can say about the shots.
I'm on a hot tin roof to get mine.
Thanks a million John.
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Luke Armstrong

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:01 am

Wow it looks great.
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Ramon Coelho

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:20 am

Very impressing all together!
The video quality is like still photography.
But looking at the PNG's it seems to me that it's hard to find the focus point.
The model never is focused in the face, any options for focus assist?

Keep-up the good work!
Ramon.
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GwenM

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:55 am

Wow thanks JB :o
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John Brawley

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:59 am

Ramon Coelho wrote:Very impressing all together!
The video quality is like still photography.
But looking at the PNG's it seems to me that it's hard to find the focus point.
The model never is focused in the face, any options for focus assist?

Keep-up the good work!
Ramon.


The camera has a "soft' look, mainly because there is no sharpening or enhancement of the image. Most other dSLR cameras have a sharpening or coring / detail processing step that artificially sharpens the image. You can still do this in post if you like, but you're starting off with what the sensor sees with no sharpening.

jb
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Grant Petty

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 12:15 pm

Hi,

Thank for all the kind comments guys and its been a lot of work but its really come along very nicely and having john to assist us has been like having the whole professional Cinematography community helping.

As for the focus, yes there is a help for focusing and by pressing the focus button you can get peaking to help focus the shot. You can also double tap the screen to zoom into the shot so its pixel for pixel on the LCD so you can really see full resolution for adjusting focus.

I am not sure about the shots posted, but there is plenty of shots that are extremely sharp and clean. Very anti aliased and smooth. I am still amazed how the camera handles fine hair detail and textures in dirt and walls etc. Its really quite nice, and even more affordable Canon lenses are very clean and sharp.

We should post some more shots I guess. Give us a few more days.

Grant
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Joel Crane

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 12:18 pm

Grant, are there any assignable function buttons?
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Michael Sandiford

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 12:45 pm

Grant Petty wrote:I am not sure about the shots posted, but there is plenty of shots that are extremely sharp and clean. Very anti aliased and smooth. I am still amazed how the camera handles fine hair detail and textures in dirt and walls etc. Its really quite nice, and even more affordable Canon lenses are very clean and sharp.

We should post some more shots I guess. Give us a few more days.

Grant


Your obviously really busy, send me a camera and I'll do it for you. ;)
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Able Digital Group

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 1:47 pm

Hi John:

Brilliant postings over the past few months which is so different from the other maufacturers who are so protective of their technologies that they do not appreciate real-use feedback prior to release. Looking forward to receiving our camera and very curious about the accessory options supporting the BMC: Rigs, batteries, etc.

Best,
Last edited by Able Digital Group on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 2:18 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Jesuan wrote:Hi John!!

Totally awesome. It's clean and perfect and very filmic...dying to get mine..
One question. Did you fix rolling shutter in post or is it as it comes out of the camera?? on that steadicam shot looks quite good, I thought it was going to be worse.

Cheers!! BMD FTW!!


There's no fix at all.

This is exactly what was shot, just with a simple grade applied.

The rolling shutter is there if you want to go looking for it, but it rarely gets in the way of getting great images.

jb



Thanks John, the first thing I did when I watche the edit was looking for RS, and I didn't find it, especially on the steadicam shot where the panning is fast. I see no trouble to this camera, even crop factor doesn't seem to be really hard to avoid. Thanks again.

Js
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Denver Riddle

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 3:18 pm

Thanks John and Grant!

I'm really impressed with the enthusiasm and support you've
shown toward your products and user base!

That's evidenced by enlisting a top DOP in the development
of the camera and here we have the CEO of a big company
taking the time to answer questions here on the forum.

What you're doing is revolutionary! I'm looking forward to
the future! :D
Denver Riddle
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Kazuni

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 4:18 pm

Your Twitter and Facebook links are not working!
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Michael Millichamp

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Test grade

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 4:22 pm

Hey guys!

First wanted to say a thanks to John for posting all of these clips. It definitely gives us something to have fun with while we wait.

I just got DaVinci 9 Beta and I LOVE it.

Here are some test grades I did real quick. Maybe 10 minutes on each.
Attachments
Web-Export-2.jpg
Web-Export-2.jpg (193.05 KiB) Viewed 2954 times
Web-Export-1.jpg
Web-Export-1.jpg (205.32 KiB) Viewed 2954 times
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TrackZillas

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 4:37 pm

Thank you Blackmagic, thank you John Brawley for all your hard work working the camera up to where it is right now. This is an evolution in film making, it's revolutionary can't believe all our demands of a Raw, Proress 10bit 422HQ Cam have been answered with this camera. Never mind what people said about the internal battery, never mind what they said about the lens mount / crop factor, never mind what they said about the high frame rates to me it's a none factor this is as good as it get's at that price range. The dynamic range, the filmic texture, motion cadence of this camera is simply breathtaking I've worked with Alexa footage before very similar this is a gift. John great footage & your team as well did a wonderful job, all I'm going to say is get ready a storm of orders Blackmagic people are about to jump ship I'm all in!!! bravo guy's well deserve

Blackmagic = Outside the box thinking & and boundaries breakers.
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TrackZillas

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Re: Test grade

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 4:40 pm

Michael Millichamp wrote:Hey guys!

First wanted to say a thanks to John for posting all of these clips. It definitely gives us something to have fun with while we wait.

I just got DaVinci 9 Beta and I LOVE it.

Here are some test grades I did real quick. Maybe 10 minutes on each.


Nice Grade.. What version of Davinci 9 are you using? for some reason Davinci 9b3 my clips turn to green and they disappear when played can't preview clips..
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Congratulations- the RAW data looks excellent. We've been working with RAW stills since 2002 and it's such a godsend to have the control that RAW editing provides in cinematography. Finally.

It's a wild and wooly time- support for RAW editing of stills in 2002 wasn't very good, even by Adobe. Here we are again. They're seriously dropping the ball on support for CinemaDNG in CS6. What's the skinny from Blackmagic's point of view regarding support for CinemaDNG in the CS6 suite? Has Adobe shown any interest in actually supporting this, or are they still dragging their feet? We've tried to install the CS 5/CS 5.5 CinemaDNG importer plugins into CS6, but they don't seem to work. Lightroom is taking the DNGs just fine- we just can't export them in a high bit depth format that CS6 will accept. Such a bummer.

Attached are a couple of grades as a test- the 'as shot' frame on top, a heavy color grade with hue shifts, and a split tone (scroll image or download it to see stacked grading examples). All done in Lightroom and exported as both DNGs and uncompressed TIFF sequences. Now if Adobe would get its act together wrt/CinemaDNG support in CS6...

20120822_grades.jpg
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Denver Riddle

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 5:49 pm

Kazuni wrote:Your Twitter and Facebook links are not working!

I'm not sure exactly why, may be a bug in the forum.
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Denver Riddle

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Here's a summary of my graded clips. What a fun activity!

Shot3_graded.jpg
Modern Look
Shot3_graded.jpg (753.67 KiB) Viewed 2918 times

shot1_graded.jpg
Subtle Bleach Bypass
shot1_graded.jpg (717.8 KiB) Viewed 2918 times

shot2_graded.jpg
Day for Night
shot2_graded.jpg (693.93 KiB) Viewed 2918 times
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rawCAM35

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Thanks John for your efforts, you wrote that the only lighting you used in the Pool Shark shoot is the single Kino Diva set and the practicals in the room, but I see HMI in the AFTERGLOW shoot, so I assume that these two shoots are unrelated.
Thanks
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Brian@202020

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 6:54 pm

John is the new 2400 x 1350 RAW resolution the final resolution? If so it seems the camera is now 2.4K correct?
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 7:08 pm

Hey

Thanks for this it's amazing... Do you mind me asking what rig you are using.. Looks really interesting!

Thanks!
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marktierneyfilm

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 7:27 pm

Very interesting files, and congrats on all the work/effort so far. You've done a great job John.
I'm so tempted its incredible. Only reason I hesitate is lens cropping (drove me mad on the AF101) and I already have other cameras.
This is my version of the frame from the CP2 using my 'commercial' grade from Lightroom. I found the lens differences very interesting. Also, how can you not love those Optimos? They are just fantastic.
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marktierneyfilm

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 7:45 pm

My "make it look like we shot it on a RED" look:
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John Brawley

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 8:58 pm

nickdale wrote:Hey

Thanks for this it's amazing... Do you mind me asking what rig you are using.. Looks really interesting!

Thanks!


I have one from Viewfactor and the one in the photos from this shoot is from Bebob.de.

jb
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:12 pm

Brian@202020 wrote:John is the new 2400 x 1350 RAW resolution the final resolution? If so it seems the camera is now 2.4K correct?


it's probably one for the BMD guys to answer but I think it's to do with getting a nicer 1920x1080 re-scale.

jb
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rick.lang

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:26 pm

The new 2400x1350 size does provide the identical aspect ratio of 1920x1080 i.e. 1.777778.

2432x1366 ratio was something over 1.80 so not a good match for HD video.

Now if they changed the published 2432x1366 to 2432x1368 they would have also achieved the same 1.777778 aspect ratio without reducing RAW image size. So there must be more to it than simply using a better aspect ratio with the new RAW recordings at 2400x1350. I'm sure BMD will clarify. It would appear the revised BMD webpages still say RAW recording is 2432x1366 so a little confusing.

Edit: On BMCuser, Jeff notes the actual RAW file images are still 2432x1366 and Deggen observes the Resolve debayer appears to create 2400x1350 debayered images from that. But Brian@202020 maintains the downloaded images are really 2400x1350. However I'm not clear if the downloaded images came straight from the camera or were passed to Resolve first. I think Grant Petty posted a comment on the downloads I'll try to find...

Edit: Here's what Grant said in an earlier post in this thread:
"These clips are direct from the camera with no post production or any modification at all. Because they are RAW, then your getting everything direct from the sensor without any processing.

The only thing your seeing if your working on them in Resolve is the header of the files has the white balance info etc so Resolve will setup the look and do the de bayer and color processing for DNG.

But otherwise these files are direct from the camera sensor.

Grant"

Perhaps this thread on MBCuser will eventually document a clear explanation:
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?7 ... nged/page2
Last edited by rick.lang on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:35 pm

marktierneyfilm wrote:My "make it look like we shot it on a RED" look:


I think both of your gradings were very, very nice. Each had they're own distinct style. Well done and thank you.
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Brian@202020

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:35 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Brian@202020 wrote:John is the new 2400 x 1350 RAW resolution the final resolution? If so it seems the camera is now 2.4K correct?


it's probably one for the BMD guys to answer but I think it's to do with getting a nicer 1920x1080 re-scale.

jb


Thats what I figured, thanks John. By the way the footage looks amazing.
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John Brawley

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:40 pm

rick.lang wrote:However I'm not clear if the downloaded images came straight from the camera or were passed to Resolve first. I think Grant Petty posted a comment on the downloads I'll try to find...
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?7 ... nged/page2


The downloaded images are straight from camera. They are un-doctored and not altered.

jb
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vri

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Camera rig

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Who is the manufacture of the camera rig (bracket, frame, rod holder) that you are using?
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera rig

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 10:53 pm

vri wrote:Who is the manufacture of the camera rig (bracket, frame, rod holder) that you are using?


Bebob.

http://www.bebob.de/Rigs-and-Cages/STARTER-KIT-BM.html

jb
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bunte farben

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 10:56 pm

Is there going to be a PL mount option? How did you get that Optimo on the camera?

thanks!

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marktierneyfilm

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:32 pm

You can get the Optimos in a ZF mount. I imagine he has a ZF mount version with an EF adapter.
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John Brawley

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:33 pm

bunte farben wrote:Is there going to be a PL mount option? How did you get that Optimo on the camera?

thanks!



Hi Florian. Good to see you here.

Angenieux make an EF mount adaptor for most of the Optimo lens, including the 24-290 ! They are actually quite inexpensive so go talk to your local rental house ?

JB
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marktierneyfilm

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:34 pm

Ah, they do an EF mount now as well? Perfect. I've used the F and PL only.
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:39 pm

marktierneyfilm wrote:Ah, they do an EF mount now as well? Perfect. I've used the F and PL only.



http://www.angenieux.com/file/datasheet ... uxDSLR.pdf

Zeiss also make one for the LWZ zoom.

jb
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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:40 pm

gingerfinger wrote:Grant, are there any assignable function buttons?


At the moment, there's no way to assign functions to the buttons.

The menu of the camera is incredibly simple.

jb
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Kristian Lam

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Re: Afterglow

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:53 pm

Brian@202020 wrote:John is the new 2400 x 1350 RAW resolution the final resolution? If so it seems the camera is now 2.4K correct?


Hi Brian@202020

The RAW bayered image size is 2432 x 1366 which gets debayered to 2400 x 1350. There is a slight crop to get rid of the edges of the image because when you are debayering, the very boundary of the frame will not have enough surrounding information to be accurately debayered and will need to be discarded. This is a pretty standard procedure for debayering images.

The DNG has a DefaultCropSize tag which is explained as:

Raw images often store extra pixels around the edges of the final image. These extra pixels help prevent interpolation artifacts near the edges of the final image.
DefaultCropSize specifies the size of the final image area, in raw image coordinates (i.e., before the DefaultScale has been applied).
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 1:46 am

John Brawley wrote:
gingerfinger wrote:Grant, are there any assignable function buttons?


At the moment, there's no way to assign functions to the buttons.

The menu of the camera is incredibly simple.

jb


Yeah it looks it from everything I've seen, I just always like the convenience of one touch functions. I take it there's not much navigating involved through different submenus?
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 1:58 am

I like how cinematic the images look manipulated within Resolve V9. However, I find the last two shots (4 & 5) to be extremely noisy. Was it an artistic decision, or camera limitation?

Luis
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 2:16 am

gingerfinger wrote:
Yeah it looks it from everything I've seen, I just always like the convenience of one touch functions. I take it there's not much navigating involved through different submenus?


There are no real sub menus. There are tabs and you can choose most of the camera's options within two touches. It's really quick.

jb
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 2:23 am

Luis Otero wrote:I like how cinematic the images look manipulated within Resolve V9. However, I find the last two shots (4 & 5) to be extremely noisy. Was it an artistic decision, or camera limitation?

Luis


"Extremely noisy " ? I think there is some noise there but I don't find it offensive personally and I wouldn't characterise it as extreme either. Compared to which other camera ?

With a RAW workflow that you have with this camera, you get a very unprocessed image and that means you also get some noise. On other dSLR's they do a lot of noise reduction before you get to see the pictures. You can do this in Resolve if you want to reduce the noise and there are also other really good NR applications around like Neat Video.

I think you can even download a Neat demo for nix. Maybe you can try it out with the DNGs and see if it's to your taste ?

jb
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 4:06 am

I'm really excited for this camera, and I love the images that are coming from this camera. Thanks John for letting us know how you pulled off each of these scenes.
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 9:52 am

John can you tell me what about sound if you are recording RAW footage? It is on some different folder or some where else? What about sych? And one more thing, If you will be able to put some new footage, can you upload the ProRes or DNxHD at 1920 x 1080? Thanks :)
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 11:16 am

Don't forget, on the full version of DaVinci Resolve, included with your BMD cinema camera, and assuming you are using CUDA GPUs you can add just a little noise reduction if you think the night shots could do with a little. I played with that today and the ProRes renders looked great.
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 11:58 am

muchskywoker wrote:John can you tell me what about sound if you are recording RAW footage? It is on some different folder or some where else? What about sych? And one more thing, If you will be able to put some new footage, can you upload the ProRes or DNxHD at 1920 x 1080? Thanks :)


Can't do any ProRes just yet.

Sound is recorded and stored in each folder but not included with these demo shots. It's recorded as a .WAV file.

jb
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 12:26 pm

any advice on how to get the images to look as 'RAW' as possible?
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 12:32 pm

John Brawley wrote:
muchskywoker wrote:John can you tell me what about sound if you are recording RAW footage? It is on some different folder or some where else? What about sych? And one more thing, If you will be able to put some new footage, can you upload the ProRes or DNxHD at 1920 x 1080? Thanks :)


Can't do any ProRes just yet.

Sound is recorded and stored in each folder but not included with these demo shots. It's recorded as a .WAV file.

jb



John - can you give some more colour on the sound. How does it compare to a 5dmkii (as a low benchmark) or a H2n (as a high benchmark)? Is there enough sensitivity to use an NTG-2 or do we need to use DSLR mic such as Rode VM Pro? Many Thanks!!
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Re: Afterglow

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 12:54 pm

I just tried using the 'black magic cinema camera film to REC 709' LUT on my Resolve which looks very odd - is there a way get back to the Log or totally RAW camera output?
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