Raw for the Pocket!

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 7:03 am

The same day I will receive my Pocket, BM announces the update :-)
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/7 ... sh_1.5.rtf
Joaquin Torrents
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adamroberts

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 7:30 am

Nice.

I wonder what other "tweaks" have been made under the hood??
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Florian Kohlert

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 7:31 am

Which pocket? There ain't no pockets in europe.
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Anton Outkine

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 7:33 am

Time for a new SD card, I guess — my SanDisk Extreme won't work with it in RAW mode (the camera very briefly shows REC, then switches back to Ready).

Guys, post your SD success stories (and models that work)!
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 7:58 am

Say goodbye to all the "when do I get raw" postings and hello to all the "why doesn't raw work with my El Cheapo SD card" threads :mrgreen:
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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hugh

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:06 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:Say goodbye to all the "when do I get raw" postings and hello to all the "why doesn't raw work with my El Cheapo SD card" threads :mrgreen:


Yeah really.
Well here's my attempt to nip it in the bud-

Cards that work with raw:
1)SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s.
2)See 1.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:09 am

Anton Outkine wrote:Time for a new SD card, I guess — my SanDisk Extreme won't work with it in RAW mode (the camera very briefly shows REC, then switches back to Ready).

Guys, post your SD success stories (and models that work)!


Anton,
please, could you tell us wich sandisk xtreme are you using? I will receive the Pocket today and a few days ago I bought a SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-I (64GB,95MB/s) . I hope it will work...
Thanks
Joaquin Torrents
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:10 am

I've been using Sandisk 32gb Extreme pros for about a month now with the RAW firmware.

Ten minutes to a card.

64s work as well
Kholi Hicks
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Anton Outkine

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:11 am

Joaquin, it's Extreme (not Pro) 45MB/s for me, so yes, you're probably golden with that card.

jtorrents wrote:Anton,
please, could you tell us wich sandisk xtreme are you using? I will receive the Pocket today and a few days ago I bought a SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-I (64GB,95MB/s) . I hope it will work...
Thanks
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:11 am

Briwil wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:Say goodbye to all the "when do I get raw" postings and hello to all the "why doesn't raw work with my El Cheapo SD card" threads :mrgreen:


Yeah really.
Well here's my attempt to nip it in the bud-

Cards that work with raw:
1)SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s.
2)See 1.


Thanks, Briwil!
Joaquin Torrents
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:12 am

Anton Outkine wrote:Joaquin, it's Extreme (not Pro) 45MB/s for me, so yes, you're probably golden with that card.

jtorrents wrote:Anton,
please, could you tell us wich sandisk xtreme are you using? I will receive the Pocket today and a few days ago I bought a SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-I (64GB,95MB/s) . I hope it will work...
Thanks

Anton, thanks! Cannot wait to receive my camera!
Joaquin Torrents
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:20 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:Say goodbye to all the "when do I get raw" postings and hello to all the "why doesn't raw work with my El Cheapo SD card" threads :mrgreen:


And good riddance, But I'm curious why a forum member is announcing it, when we are being told constantly that any updates will be announced here on the forums from a BMD Representative? 8-)

As most of you who know me...I'm not trying to "Stir the pot" :twisted:
Just wondering why BMD fails to keep us updated in every way.

This is really starting to piss me off,
It's like they want us to do all the work of announcing the updates.
Seems like a really lazy attitude BMD! :evil:

BMD GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!
Last edited by Darryl Gregory on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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squares

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:24 am

How about you chill out. The press release is dated for tomorrow: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/press/p ... seID=48061
Doug D.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

After testing raw for quite a while now, the SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-I (64GB,95MB/s) is the card I recommend.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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DanC

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:43 am

Hi Frank,
I have 2 of the SD cards you recommend (SanDisk Extreme Pro 64GB, 95MB/s) and neither of them work for me for recording RAW. Recording is happening. DNG files are created. But they all look like "bad TV". Maybe I'm doing something else wrong.
cheers,
Dan
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:49 am

Take them into Resolve.

OSX doesnt' read the files when you just hit spacebar, you have to use your DNG/post program.

BMD reported this to apple already, hopefully a resolution soon.
Kholi Hicks
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StephenH

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:50 am

Well I would just like to thank the guys at Blackmagic Design, for finally bringing RAW to the Pocket Cinema Camera. Much appreciated.
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DanC

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:52 am

Thanks, Kholi! I did try this, and it didn't work. But maybe that's because my Resolve Lite is running on an underpec-ed 2010 MacPro. I'll try it again.
cheers,
Dan
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:56 am

squares wrote:How about you chill out. The press release is dated for tomorrow: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/press/p ... seID=48061


I don't need to chill out, I'm fine, My rant is not about any press release, it's about a forum announcement/post from BMD that bothers me, Now how about you "squares" with your awesome
post count :roll: Go bury your head in the sand.
Image

And here we are again with no BMCC update.

Go figure ;)
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StephenH

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 8:59 am

Guys, post your SD success stories (and models that work)!


I would think the smart root would be go with the SD cards recommended by BM, or don't complain when the card doesn't work or drops frames on record.
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adamroberts

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:04 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
squares wrote:How about you chill out. The press release is dated for tomorrow: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/press/p ... seID=48061


I don't need to chill out, I'm fine, My rant is not about any press release, it's about a forum announcement/post from BMD that bothers me, Now how about you "squares" with your awesome
post count :roll: Go bury your head in the sand.


Have you maybe thought that the admins and the dev team are not the same people and that maybe the dev had sent a message to the admin to say it was now uploaded to the system and OP happened to see the update before the admin and was just a little quicker to the draw???

Here is the official post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15129

all of 1h 50min later... wow you need to chill out, you'll give yourself a heart attack. ;)
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Jeff Manning

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:08 am

I just updated my camera after seeing this post. What with receiving my camera much earlier than expected (and only planning to shoot pro-res at first) the fastest card I currently have is one of the 32GB 80MB/s Sandisk Extreme cards. I popped it in not expecting it to work but I was actually able to record a few short test clips! Has anyone else had success with this card? How long were you able to record for? I only tried recording for about 30 seconds but it seemed to work just fine.
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Larry Sullivan

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:09 am

Yeah, I did a quick test and the DNG files look amazing in Photoshop, but when I bring the file into Resolve they look all grainy and noisy. I'm sure it's a setting somewhere and I need to put in many hours of research to get this right as I am a Resolve/RAW noob....looking forward all your "test videos" though(remember that thread?). Hop to it people.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:11 am

adamroberts wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:
squares wrote:How about you chill out. The press release is dated for tomorrow: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/press/p ... seID=48061


I don't need to chill out, I'm fine, My rant is not about any press release, it's about a forum announcement/post from BMD that bothers me, Now how about you "squares" with your awesome
post count :roll: Go bury your head in the sand.


Have you maybe thought that the admins and the dev team are not the same people and that maybe the dev had sent a message to the admin to say it was now uploaded to the system and OP happened to see the update before the admin and was just a little quicker to the draw???

Here is the official post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15129

all of 1h 50min later... wow you need to chill out, you give yourself a heart attack.


I'm sorry you would repeat that comment Adam, "I do not need to chill out!"
And let it be noted that any and all updates are said to be posted here on the forums first,
I did not see this post, and I'm visiting here daily, by the hour.

Now I suggest Adam that you apologize to me since I was not speaking to you in the first place!
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adamroberts

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:11 am

stylz wrote:Yeah, I did a quick test and the DNG files look amazing in Photoshop, but when I bring the file into Resolve they look all grainy and noisy. I'm sure it's a setting somewhere and I need to put in many hours of research to get this right as I am a Resolve/RAW noob....looking forward all your "test videos" though(remember that thread?). Hop to it people.


Watch these 2 tutorials.... they should help get you started:
http://www.colorgradingcentral.com/blac ... ial-series
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adamroberts

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:17 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:Now I suggest Adam that you apologize to me since I was not speaking to you in the first place!


Apologise?? Apologise for what? For pointing out that there is actually an official post from BM??

What ever...

Your little rant was rude. You don't know what hours that admins keep or what other work load they have.

They made an official post on here. Just because a user happened to see the update on the support server before the official BM post was made hardly makes them, and I quote, "XXX lazy".

I think perhaps it's you who needs to apologise... there is not need for language like that on here.
Last edited by Terry Frechette on Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for swearing
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:22 am

adamroberts wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:Now I suggest Adam that you apologize to me since I was not speaking to you in the first place!


Apologise?? Apologise for what? For pointing out that there is actually an official post from BM??

What ever...

Your little rant was rude. You don't know what hours that admins keep or what other work load they have.

They made an official post on here. Just because a user happened to see the update on the support server before the official BM post was made hardly makes them, and I quote, "******* lazy".

I think perhaps it's you who needs to apologise... there is not need for language like that on here.


you need to apologize for telling me to chill out, that is rude! I was not talking to you, Where do you get off telling me what to do?

If I owe any apology... it is certainly not to you Adam.

I have edited the "F" word out of my post, just for you Shy Brits!
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Corrupt Frame, Inc.

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:36 am

Why do these conversations always degenerate into bitch-fights? This forum is one of the worst I've ever seen...

Can't you just be happy you have Raw? Wouldn't you rather be playing with your cameras than wasting time crying on the internet demanding apologies?

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there isn't an extremely high level of BPA (Bisphenol A) in the plastic that Blackmagic uses on their cameras... That would explain the apparent hormone imbalance and associated emotional distress that many users have been experiencing... Surely there is a solid scientific explanation for why so many here are always so perpetually butt-hurt.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:47 am

Corrupt Frame, Inc. wrote:Why do these conversations always degenerate into bitch-fights? This forum is one of the worst I've ever seen...

Can't you just be happy you have Raw? Wouldn't you rather be playing with your cameras than wasting time crying on the internet demanding apologies?

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there isn't an extremely high level of BPA (Bisphenol A) in the plastic that Blackmagic uses on their cameras... That would explain the apparent hormone imbalance and associated emotional distress that many users have been experiencing... Surely there is a solid scientific explanation for why so many here are always so perpetually butt-hurt.


The easy answer for the new members is...the mere fact that BMD is radically flawed about updating costumers, and I just sold both my pocket cameras for a financial loss due to no RAW updates,
I thought it wouldn't not happen until next year, yes this is no fault of BMD other than the fact we had NO updates about when RAW would be available, And since the BMCC has been abandoned!!!!!
I made the decision to sell both of my Pocket Cameras just 3 days ago!

Yeah I'm just a little peeved! :evil:
But nothing I wont get over, Now stop acting like "Dr Phil" and trying to make me look like the bad guy, because that won't happen. :ugeek:
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Corrupt Frame, Inc.

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 9:58 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
Corrupt Frame, Inc. wrote:Why do these conversations always degenerate into bitch-fights? This forum is one of the worst I've ever seen...

Can't you just be happy you have Raw? Wouldn't you rather be playing with your cameras than wasting time crying on the internet demanding apologies?

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there isn't an extremely high level of BPA (Bisphenol A) in the plastic that Blackmagic uses on their cameras... That would explain the apparent hormone imbalance and associated emotional distress that many users have been experiencing... Surely there is a solid scientific explanation for why so many here are always so perpetually butt-hurt.


The easy answer for the new members is...the mere fact that BMD is radically flawed about updating costumers, and I just sold both my pocket cameras for a financial loss due to no RAW updates,
I thought it wouldn't not happen until next year, yes this is no fault of BMD other than the fact we had NO updates about when RAW would be available, And since the BMCC has been abandoned!!!!!
I made the decision to sell both of my Pocket Cameras just 3 days ago!

Yeah I'm just a little peeved! :evil:
But nothing I wont get over, Now stop acting like "Dr Phil" and trying to make me look like the bad guy, because that won't happen. :ugeek:


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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 10:05 am

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Hector Diaz

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 10:46 am

Awesome that raw is now available. For those complaining: This is why you wait a while for a product to settle after it's been released months prior. Being a window shopper has its perks, it saves sanity. :-)
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 10:57 am

Well so far I am really impressed, camera has gone from approx 20 Mbytes/Sec to 50 Mbytes/Sec.
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 12:12 pm

look forward to someone posting some footage soon to do some pixel peeping!!
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Paul Kapp

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 12:21 pm

StephenH wrote:Well I would just like to thank the guys at Blackmagic Design, for finally bringing RAW to the Pocket Cinema Camera. Much appreciated.


Yea but what have they done for me lately ;)
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steve connor

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 12:46 pm

Step back and realise exactly what BMD have done here, 12 bit RAW on a small camera that costs $995 it's a very BIG deal.

What I don't understand is why all the people that have been consistently moaning on here for the last few months haven't moved on to another manufacturer. If I was unhappy as some of you are I certainly would.
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christian.himmelstrand

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 12:50 pm

StephenH wrote:Well I would just like to thank the guys at Blackmagic Design, for finally bringing RAW to the Pocket Cinema Camera. Much appreciated.


Yes! Thanx guys! Nice work! :)
(I guess it is lot's of hard work to make raw become real)

Image
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Anders Holck

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 2:03 pm

Christian H wrote:
StephenH wrote:Well I would just like to thank the guys at Blackmagic Design, for finally bringing RAW to the Pocket Cinema Camera. Much appreciated.


Yes! Thanx guys! Nice work! :)
(I guess it is lot's of hard work to make raw become real)

Image


This is one of those pictures that makes me feel like leaving working going home playing with my toys..
I'm afraid I have to go and buy another memory card since my Sandisc 45MB/s is too slow for raw.
Good with an extra backup card I guess.

It might be a good day today.. Raw added to bmpcc and 4 items ordered for camera is waiting at
the post office :D

// A
==============

BlackMagic URSA mini 4.6K EF & BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Sony FDR-AX100 & Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Still and video
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EAFMM

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 3:40 pm

Still don't get it!
Is it 2.5K Uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW or 1080HD Uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW camera?

Anybody to enlighten us on that?

;)

P.S: And whats the difference between both on the Super16 sensor?

Thanks
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Brett Hannam

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 3:47 pm

Happy my 32GB 80MB/s Sandisk Extreme Card works with no dropped frames or any troubles recording RAW. Got 6 minutes and a few seconds at 23.98 fps!
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 3:53 pm

Brett Hannam wrote:Happy my 32GB 80MB/s Sandisk Extreme Card works with no dropped frames or any troubles recording RAW. Got 6 minutes and a few seconds at 23.98 fps!


That's strange... have you pulled it into Resolve to make sure it's one clip and no dropped frames?

No errors on recording? Also, have you tried recording a complex scene? That would make a difference.
Kholi Hicks
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Brett Hannam

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 3:58 pm

Good point. I'll run it through it's paces in the next few hours and see what turns up.
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Andrew.Agnew@TheDoco.Co

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 4:09 pm

On behalf of all those who have offended against those who feel offended I offer a heart felt and sincere apology to the later mentioned offendees - Now everyone shake hands and play nicely.

I am pretty sure the men in the back room in the white coats are there making lots of yummy updates to your various cameri, either that or they coming to take you away. :lol:
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EAFMM

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 4:15 pm

EAFMM wrote:Still don't get it!
Is it 2.5K Uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW or 1080HD Uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW camera?

Anybody to enlighten us on that?

;)

P.S: And whats the difference between both on the Super16 sensor?

Thanks


Any clue please???????
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adamroberts

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Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 4:17 pm

EAFMM wrote:Still don't get it!
Is it 2.5K Uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW or 1080HD Uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW camera?

Anybody to enlighten us on that?

;)

P.S: And whats the difference between both on the Super16 sensor?

Thanks


BMCC (EF & MFT) = 2.5k Uncompressed RAW with 1080p ProRes
BMPCC = 1080p Lossless Compressed RAW with 1080p ProRes

Simple.

BMPCC has a sensor that is close to Super16mm film. BMCC has a larger sensor but smaller than Super35mm film. It's all in the specs.
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EAFMM

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 4:28 pm

Ok I think I'm starting to get it. I believe its not a matter of sensor as both BMCC and BMPCC share same one (size wise), but a matter of processing and compression (body dimensions)...
As for the BMPCC 4K its going to slightly smaller than S35 as well, but will easily process uncompressed 4K CinemaDNG Raw.

No?

P.S:
At least 3.7K for that sensor size...
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adamroberts

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 5:18 pm

EAFMM wrote:Ok I think I'm starting to get it. I believe its not a matter of sensor as both BMCC and BMPCC share same one (size wise), but a matter of processing and compression (body dimensions)...
As for the BMPCC 4K its going to slightly smaller than S35 as well, but will easily process uncompressed 4K CinemaDNG Raw.

No?

P.S:
At least 3.7K for that sensor size...


Err... No.

The BMCC and BMPCC share the same sensor technology but the active area of the sensors differ.

Active Sensor Resolution
BMCC: 2432 x 1366
BMPCC: 1920 x 1080

Active Sensor Size
BMCC: 15.81mm x 8.88mm
BMPCC: 12.48mm x 7.02mm


All of this is listed in the spec.

The BMPC 4K is said to offer Lossless Compressed RAW. Not uncompressed.
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leepatterson

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 5:22 pm

My Sony 64gb SD XC1 94MB/s cards are coping with Raw really well
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Kofa

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 5:53 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:Say goodbye to all the "when do I get raw" postings and hello to all the "why doesn't raw work with my El Cheapo SD card" threads :mrgreen:

ha ha ha.

I don't get all the questions about does this or that card work? BM clearly states the cards that do. Just get those and you're golden. As a rule of thumb, people should be getting the 95/MBs cards not only cause they work but it's great for off loading. Simple.
@misterkofa
junegemini.com
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Mark Davies

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Re: Raw for the Pocket!

PostTue Nov 12, 2013 6:08 pm

Err... No.

The BMCC and BMPCC share the same sensor technology but the active area of the sensors differ.

Active Sensor Resolution
BMCC: 2432 x 1366
BMPCC: 1920 x 1080

Active Sensor Size
BMCC: 15.81mm x 8.88mm
BMPCC: 12.48mm x 7.02mm


All of this is listed in the spec.

The BMPC 4K is said to offer Lossless Compressed RAW. Not uncompressed.


So how do you debayer raw? And what is the lossless compression?
Mark Davies
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