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Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:17 pm
by Soeren Mueller
that's why as a professional (like in any other field of working "professionally" = meaning I earn my money with it) you research and even TEST your equipment before planning on using it for something that it may totally not be suited for...

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:05 pm
by Juan Rojas Mancha
I think if you have to synchronize audio with an external source, you need a minimally decent internal source to synchronize with programs like pluraleyes. I recorded a live music band with a external profesional mixer, and when i want to synchronize audio, the internal mic its could not use what distorted, just a few simple indicators have no audio input

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:39 pm
by Eugene Carter
The audio needs to be fixed ASAP. There is no excuse for poor audio and no meters when the product specs say "professional audio". Thin sounding audio with no meters is not professional audio. I understand why people are frustrated and BM hasn't handled this issue well. I don't care how you try to spin it, the audio isn't up to par with even consumer cameras at this point. Also, the red to orange/ brown issue needs fixed. BM's desire to unify their firmware across all cameras shouldn't be an excuse to neglect problems that need fixed now. It's frustrating to see the BMPCC get updates and the BMCC is just left hanging. So yes, I'm frustrated and I can understand people's frustration. I don't even care about compressed raw. I don't want to have to use an external recorder and sync, I shouldn't have to if I don't want to. The camera is advertised as having pro audio so get it fixed and get some meters on the thing ASAP!

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:46 pm
by Juan Rojas Mancha
Eugene C. wrote:The audio needs to be fixed ASAP. There is no excuse for poor audio and no meters when the product specs say "professional audio". Thin sounding audio with no meters is not professional audio. I understand why people are frustrated and BM hasn't handled this issue well. I don't care how you try to spin it, the audio isn't up to par with even consumer cameras at this point. Also, the red to orange/ brown issue needs fixed. BM's desire to unify their firmware across all cameras shouldn't be an excuse to neglect problems that need fixed now. It's frustrating to see the BMPCC get updates and the BMCC is just left hanging. So yes, I'm frustrated and I can understand peoples frustration. I don't even care about compressed raw. I don't want to have to use an external recorder and sync, I shouldn't have to if I don't want to. The camera is advertised as having pro audio so get it fixed and get some meters and the thing ASAP!


yes and say " EF Mount Lens" and they should be " EF Fits lens".
Its not compatible with a lot of most popular canon lens. The 4K will be but i dont go to buy another BMCC

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:42 pm
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
Soeren Mueller wrote:that's why as a professional (like in any other field of working "professionally" = meaning I earn my money with it) you research and even TEST your equipment before planning on using it for something that it may totally not be suited for...



Of course you do. As do I. But with the BMCC, I find that I end up leaving it on the shelf and grabbing/renting another cam to do the job. Too bad, as with just a few firmware fixes this cam could be used for 80% of my work instead of the current 8%.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:09 pm
by Richard Martz
"Mike Schrengohst" I hate to sound like the other whiners but (SENSORED) fix the audio recording already, blackmagic!

WTF?? It has been MORE THAN A YEAR."

YES!!!! I echo that sentiment. Why doesn't the audio work? Just give us a flat response curve. Nothing special but this really stinks that the audio on the camera is virtually unusable in such a high performing video camera. It should be an easy fix. In fact I've had some folks remark that the processor has been deliberately made to work the way it does in an effort to minimize the fan noise. WHAT THE HECK…there is no reason for that. THE only reason we ever record with the on-board microphone is just to document the audio not to use it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FIX IT!

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:35 am
by JL Rocheron
PLease Update Bmpcc :(
-Card format
-Audio fix....etc
You made ​​super camera but never finished ...
I love this camera but please finish the works

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:01 pm
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
magicmartz wrote:"Mike Schrengohst" I hate to sound like the other whiners but (SENSORED) fix the audio recording already, blackmagic!

WTF?? It has been MORE THAN A YEAR."

YES!!!! I echo that sentiment. Why doesn't the audio work? Just give us a flat response curve. Nothing special but this really stinks that the audio on the camera is virtually unusable in such a high performing video camera. It should be an easy fix. In fact I've had some folks remark that the processor has been deliberately made to work the way it does in an effort to minimize the fan noise. WHAT THE HECK…there is no reason for that. THE only reason we ever record with the on-board microphone is just to document the audio not to use it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FIX IT!



no kidding. wtf is going on at bm? sony f55 has been out just a few months and has had 4 firmware fixes released. we see who cares about customer service.

I will say it again, I personally believe these requested fixes are not possible on this cam, which is why the price dropped by a 3rd and no updates have come out. They know this, and want to get rid of all 1st gen bmcc's. There is no reason we should have to wait so long for this. I could care less if the firmware works for all cameras. Are they really going to make us wait on the 4k release? BS.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:05 pm
by Eugene Carter
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
magicmartz wrote:"Mike Schrengohst" I hate to sound like the other whiners but (SENSORED) fix the audio recording already, blackmagic!

WTF?? It has been MORE THAN A YEAR."

YES!!!! I echo that sentiment. Why doesn't the audio work? Just give us a flat response curve. Nothing special but this really stinks that the audio on the camera is virtually unusable in such a high performing video camera. It should be an easy fix. In fact I've had some folks remark that the processor has been deliberately made to work the way it does in an effort to minimize the fan noise. WHAT THE HECK…there is no reason for that. THE only reason we ever record with the on-board microphone is just to document the audio not to use it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FIX IT!



no kidding. wtf is going on at bm? sony f55 has been out just a few months and has had 4 firmware fixes released. we see who cares about customer service.

I will say it again, I personally believe these requested fixes are not possible on this cam, which is why the price dropped by a 3rd and no updates have come out. They know this, and want to get rid of all 1st gen bmcc's. There is no reason we should have to wait so long for this. I could care less if the firmware works for all cameras. Are they really going to make us wait on the 4k release? BS.


I sincerely hope this is not the case and I hope they aren't just stringing us along. All that I hear is people saying, "Bm has already come out and said that they are working on a fix...blah, blah , blah..." That's the problem, all they have done is talk about it — no action in over a year!

BM, PLEASE MAKE FIXING THE AUDIO ON YOUR FIRST CAMERA YOUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY, PEOPLE ARE GETTING SICK OF THE EXCUSES. JUST FIX IT!

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:37 pm
by Mac Jaeger
Eugene C. wrote:All that I hear is people saying, "Bm has already come out and said that they are working on a fix...blah, blah , blah..." That's the problem, all they have done is talk about it — no action in over a year!


Hmm. I remember them saying they would work on the black sun problem. They would fix the white orb problem. They would give us remaining battery in percent. And some sort of autofocus. They promised all that one time in some forum posting, then they went silent.

And then they delivered.

All of the above.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:03 pm
by Rob Fasold
This forum desperately needs a "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" thread...

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:19 am
by John Bartman

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:35 am
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
Mac Jaeger wrote:
Eugene C. wrote:All that I hear is people saying, "Bm has already come out and said that they are working on a fix...blah, blah , blah..." That's the problem, all they have done is talk about it — no action in over a year!


Hmm. I remember them saying they would work on the black sun problem. They would fix the white orb problem. They would give us remaining battery in percent. And some sort of autofocus. They promised all that one time in some forum posting, then they went silent.

And then they delivered.

All of the above.



you got autofocus? how?

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:02 pm
by Mac Jaeger
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:you got autofocus? how?

Mac Jaeger wrote:And some sort of autofocus.

Pocket Cam has a basic autofocus function: you press "focus" once (with powered lens), and Pocket Cam will try to autofocus the center of the image. Once. It's no continuos focussing, it's always the same are, can't move it, and it's contrast AF, so it's slow and inaccurate. But it's a start. Don't need more, wouldn't want more.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:38 pm
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
oh....so if I want a camera that is more functional than the bmcc, I should buy a pocket cam? They have been offering more fixes and firmware updates for that one. I guess that is one way to sell cameras....

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:45 pm
by Mac Jaeger
Absolutely. You also get compressed raw with the pocket cam, albeit only a couple of minutes on 64 gb media... Is any of the BMCC models capable of controlling focus at all? The mft-version surely not, its mount is not an active mount like on the Pocket cam...

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:12 am
by Andreas Kaufmann
Wow.. how long is it since compressed raw for 2,5k was announced. I'm shooting a feature in march. I guess it'll be ready by then.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:55 am
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
don't hold your breath...we have already lost some filmakers to that with this wait for updates

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:25 pm
by FrankApollonio
this is taking too long to update the firmware... my camera should not have black sun spots still.... that should have been fixed in the first month...

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:05 am
by Eugene Carter
^Agreed.

How long are we suppose to wait? I haven't ran into the sun spot issue, but I would love to be able to use the in camera audio for quick turn-around projects. They need to get some audio meters and fix the problem with the low/mid-cut filtering in the current firmware. Also, not to sound entitled, but after waiting all of this time maybe we could get compressed raw like the lower model BMPCC has. The lack of communication is ridiculous.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:23 am
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
I would say not just ridiculous....but downright pathetic. I am sorry, but I cannot believe that they are holding back all these minor fixes for some "fully loaded" firmware to be used across all cameras. BS I say. They cannot get the 1st gen BMCC to EVER have proper audio and proper rec709 color, so they are keeping quiet and trying to sell them all. They know if they release a firmware upgrade with audio meters for the pocket and it DOES NOT WORK on the bmcc, the truth will be out. I think they are holding it until they can move more bmcc's or something else forces their hand.

Or I am wrong and they decided to say screw you to us bmcc owners while they have all hands busy working on the 4K ....which probably has a processor that can allow things like audio meters to be possible.

PROVE ME WRONG BLACKMAGIC DESIGN!

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:03 pm
by hughshouse
I am an audio producer, engineer & performer in the acoustic Americana music world. I have been active in these endeavors for more than 40 years and as a well equipped studio owner have more than enough bells and whistles to deliver slick post production product from multi track capture from the pre's of my console. In the audio world the two mix that is generated direct from live performance seldom meets the bar of acceptance for well mixed recordings. This is the primary reason most of the U-Tube music clips are pure crap regardless of any on board recording equipment. The only expectation I have for video equipment is visual quality and reasonable work flow. Video and audio are clearly two different worlds and the sophomoric notion that both tasks can be mastered in one small package is well beyond the pale.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:40 pm
by Eugene Carter
hughshouse wrote:I am an audio producer, engineer & performer in the acoustic Americana music world. I have been active in these endeavors for more than 40 years and as a well equipped studio owner have more than enough bells and whistles to deliver slick post production product from multi track capture from the pre's of my console. In the audio world the two mix that is generated direct from live performance seldom meets the bar of acceptance for well mixed recordings. This is the primary reason most of the U-Tube music clips are pure crap regardless of any on board recording equipment. The only expectation I have for video equipment is visual quality and reasonable work flow. Video and audio are clearly two different worlds and the sophomoric notion that both tasks can be mastered in one small package is well beyond the pale.


I'm a graduate of IAR and studied audio engineering. I've produced, engineered and performed with major label artists. This has nothing to do with the fact that the audio on this camera, in its current state, does not even meet the standard of consumer grade camcorders.

I purchased this camera for a specific duty that requires quick turnaround times, and decent audio. With audio meters and a flat response you can easily pull respectable audio from any unit quickly and painlessly. I'm not shooting feature films, if I was I would go for an Arri, Red or Sony that is more stable and costs several times more than the BM line.

I purchased the BMCC thinking it would save time on non critical green screen work and generally make things faster because it's recording in an easy to edit format. This is all canceled out by the fact that I either have to shoot separate audio, or spend time in post correcting the in camera audio.

Who would have thought that the audio would be an issue for over a year and a half now? It has balanced inputs and doesn't even have audio meters...come on! Not only that, but at line level set in the camera you have to turn up the volume (in camera) so high the signal needs to be denoised heavily and the low end is basically absent (even with a decent preamp). This is basic stuff here, just give us meters, a flat response (without dc offset issues) and proper line level gain.

Plus there are other issues that haven't been addressed with this camera and BMD refuses to communicate because it's supposedly not their policy to talk about things before they're released. Well, it's funny they don't have a problem announcing and taking pre-orders for cameras and missing release dates by almost a half year. So I don't want to hear this nonsense about not mentioning plans when you have no problem taking money and grossly missing release dates, that just doesn't add up.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:57 pm
by hughshouse
I find petulant attitudes pertaining to well known audio deficiencies with the BMPC some what hard to understand. Poor onboard audio ability to either capture or reference external feeds has to be part of the original compromise package to deliver this amount of potential visual excellence in it's small form for less than 1K. BMD may or may not address some of the audio control issues in future firm wear upgrades however any realistic chance for changes that would require space in the small footprint are most un-likely. Perhaps Eugene C. should sell his BMPC mistake and return to consumer grade camcorders or a C100 to do his point and shoot green screen work. It sure would make more sense than his futile effort to put a desired audio square peg in BMPC's round hole.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:51 pm
by Eugene Carter
hughshouse wrote:Poor onboard audio ability to either capture or reference external feeds has to be part of the original compromise package to deliver this amount of potential visual excellence in it's small form for less than 1K...


The Black Magic Cinema Camera Product Page Clearly States:
"Use Standard Connectors
Say goodbye to annoying custom cables you can never find when on a location shoot because Blackmagic Cinema Camera uses only standard connections! You get jack mic/line audio inputs for recording the highest quality uncompressed audio..."

Please tell me how I'm suppose to record the "highest quality" audio without meters, a strange response curve and improper gain staging?

Not asking for anything that isn't advertised. If the audio can't be fixed then take down the false claims.

If you don't like the requests to deliver as promised get out and go shoot something. No one is holding a gun to your head to come in and no one asked for your opinion. I have every right to gripe...don't like it, hit the road.

Also, he camera is not less than 1K.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:22 am
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
hughshouse wrote:I find petulant attitudes pertaining to well known audio deficiencies with the BMPC some what hard to understand. Poor onboard audio ability to either capture or reference external feeds has to be part of the original compromise package to deliver this amount of potential visual excellence in it's small form for less than 1K. BMD may or may not address some of the audio control issues in future firm wear upgrades however any realistic chance for changes that would require space in the small footprint are most un-likely. Perhaps Eugene C. should sell his BMPC mistake and return to consumer grade camcorders or a C100 to do his point and shoot green screen work. It sure would make more sense than his futile effort to put a desired audio square peg in BMPC's round hole.


Petulant attitudes?.....do you know what the word petulant means?....this is not merely a case of aggravation over not getting what we want....it is aggravation over not getting what we PAID for.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:42 pm
by hughshouse
The initial announcement of v1.5.1 from BMD clearly states it was for the pocket version only not the cinema camera. To this end the BMPC sales pitch includes includes the following line:"With the integrated stereo microphones you can capture great quality sound"-- what a whopper of an overstatement. This is probably the first case of a manufacturer's marketing not being on the same page as their engineering developers and that probably accounts for the fact that hundreds of reviews of both cameras that point out both cameras poor audio quality and controls were dismissed. Another possibility is that anyone that purchased the equipment before any reviews were published are part of the few that "must have the newest gismo" and as most of us know chasing technology can be a disappointing and expensive practice. Clearly there is a case of false and deceptive advertising practice here and perhaps a class action law suit might force BMD to refund your purchase price when you return the camera, or you might just sell it and consider the monetary loss tuition for a lesson learned.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:57 pm
by Robert Niessner
Code of
<defense>
blablabla ...
# must defend BMD regardless how ridiculous my statements are
# don't care how valid the complains of others are

if complain contains
"no audio levels" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a cinema camera, buy something else"
"space on SSD free" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a professional tool, calculate it yourself"
"bad audio recording in camera" then answer ... blablabla ... "sync in post, or buy something else"
"reds are orange" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a professional camera, fix it in post"
"black dots in bright lights" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's easy to fix in post or buy other camera"
else then answer "but it is so cheap to buy, be more thankful to BMD"

<endof defense>

jump to <defense>
forever

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:49 am
by Fahnon Bennett
Robert Niessner wrote:Code of
<defense>
blablabla ...
# must defend BMD regardless how ridiculous my statements are
# don't care how valid the complains of others are

if complain contains
"no audio levels" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a cinema camera, buy something else"
"space on SSD free" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a professional tool, calculate it yourself"
"bad audio recording in camera" then answer ... blablabla ... "sync in post, or buy something else"
"reds are orange" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a professional camera, fix it in post"
"black dots in bright lights" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's easy to fix in post or buy other camera"
else then answer "but it is so cheap to buy, be more thankful to BMD"

<endof defense>

jump to <defense>
forever



Haha! You forgot ... blablabla ... "the Alexa has %problem% too, stop complaining"

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:20 am
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
Thank you Guys.....it is good to have a laugh during all this dissapointing wait.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:31 pm
by Grzegorz Styczen
Robert Niessner wrote:Code of
<defense>
blablabla ...
# must defend BMD regardless how ridiculous my statements are
# don't care how valid the complains of others are

if complain contains
"no audio levels" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a cinema camera, buy something else"
"space on SSD free" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a professional tool, calculate it yourself"
"bad audio recording in camera" then answer ... blablabla ... "sync in post, or buy something else"
"reds are orange" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's a professional camera, fix it in post"
"black dots in bright lights" then answer ... blablabla ... "it's easy to fix in post or buy other camera"
else then answer "but it is so cheap to buy, be more thankful to BMD"

<endof defense>

jump to <defense>
forever


Hmm this is actually pretty accurate.

I can wait for the update, but the lack of information of what is being updated is killing me.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:15 pm
by Jordan Ray Allen
I'm a proud attendee of the pity party hoping to see some serious firmware updates. I sadly admit that I visit the website daily to see if BMD has delivered. My depression aside, here's hoping that we will finally see Firmware 1.6 TOMORROW on January 31st.

In my crazy mind which BMD has helped to create, I noticed that the first Firmware Update 1.2 was released January 31, 2012. So again, my crazy brain has convinced me that they've been holding out, ignoring our cries, because their master plan all along was to deliver ALL OF THE GOODS on the one year anniversary of their first update.

Either I'm on to something or I've completely lost my mind. :shock:

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:40 pm
by Mac Jaeger
Hope dies last :-)

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:47 pm
by Eugene Carter
RoyalCourtCinema wrote:I'm a proud attendee of the pity party hoping to see some serious firmware updates. I sadly admit that I visit the website daily to see if BMD has delivered. My depression aside, here's hoping that we will finally see Firmware 1.6 TOMORROW on January 31st.

In my crazy mind which BMD has helped to create, I noticed that the first Firmware Update 1.2 was released January 31, 2012. So again, my crazy brain has convinced me that they've been holding out, ignoring our cries, because their master plan all along was to deliver ALL OF THE GOODS on the one year anniversary of their first update.

Either I'm on to something or I've completely lost my mind. :shock:


I hope you're right, though I'm not very optimistic. I seriously hope they aren't just stringing us along to push out the last bit of cameras like others have said. If they would only communicate...

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:56 pm
by Jared Stutts
Just wondering, there are plenty of Blackmagic employees who frequent the forums here, has anyone ever sent them a private message asking for an update? Stupid question I know but no one has ever mentioned that they have...

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:29 am
by Jordan Ray Allen
Jared Stutts wrote:Just wondering, there are plenty of Blackmagic employees who frequent the forums here, has anyone ever sent them a private message asking for an update? Stupid question I know but no one has ever mentioned that they have...


Jared,

I've seen comments in the forum where people have mentioned connecting with BMD staff. Unfortunately, it results in the inquiring customer having a pacifier shoved in their mouths, a few pats on the back accompanied by the words "We haven't forgotten about the Cinema Camera and are working very hard to bring you the best update. Thank you for your patience and for choosing Blackmagic Design."

Now I'm not of the silly ones here who thinks they are flatout lying, but I just want everything yesterday. Then again, don't we all? But then there is the whole BMCC has been our for over a year, etc! So yeah, we're all just frustrated.

I just hope having their customers rebel and cast stones was worth it whenever the update releases.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:54 am
by thomas bruegger
the exact BM-terminology with any inquiry on updates on any product is:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As updates rely on the development team we are unable to provide any further information.
We are constantly trying to improve our products and we do appreciate any and all feedback you may have.
As previously mentioned I have marked this ticket as a feature request for the attention of the development team.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

they copy paste this....

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:11 am
by JL Rocheron
Blackmagic Team wake up please !!! :o

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:23 pm
by Raleighharris
:o Wow there is A LOT of concern for these updates. I hope that the silence of BMD means that they are in fact working on something. The fact that they aren't promising anything could be because it is difficult to say what exactly they can achieve with firmware updates. I am sure there is a lot of code and complicated technical "stuff" :| (as i would call it) going on. They aren't Canon, NIKON, or Sony. So as a small business I can see how it may be difficult. Being a company this small i am sure they have limited resources and it is most likely very difficult to just jump into the land of firmware codecs patents etc. against these global giants.

So I am rooting for the underdog here! Go BMD GO! I still believe the magic! My pocket cinema camera has opened up a new era in my life of cinematography and video production. I am working around all the workarounds and I will stay patient but
I don't wanna wait in vain :(


Thank you blackmagic design for the innovative and amazing groundbreaking products! :D :D :D
I appreciate everything you provide and really look forward to seeing updates. ;)

Peace

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:44 am
by Jason R. Johnston
Raleighharris wrote:I hope that the silence of BMD means that they are in fact working on something. The fact that they aren't promising anything could be because it is difficult to say what exactly they can achieve with firmware updates. I am sure there is a lot of code and complicated technical "stuff" :| (as i would call it) going on. They aren't Canon, NIKON, or Sony. So as a small business I can see how it may be difficult. Being a company this small i am sure they have limited resources and it is most likely very difficult to just jump into the land of firmware codecs patents etc. against these global giants. ... So I am rooting for the underdog here! Go BMD GO! ... Thank you blackmagic design for the innovative and amazing groundbreaking products! ... I appreciate everything you provide and really look forward to seeing updates.


Exactly. +1

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:15 am
by John Brawley
Jared Stutts wrote:Just wondering, there are plenty of Blackmagic employees who frequent the forums here,


Many of the BMD guys read these forums. Many more than you see publicly participating in the discussions...

JB

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:59 am
by gr8pics
If you ask me, it would be allot better for the BMD reputation, to remove the leaf from their mouth and say SOMETHING now, leaving us hanging like this, obviously dont make it any better.
It has been way to long, especially with all this concern the past months.
Never take your customers for granted, information is essential.
Of course they read the forum, thats their main source for r&d , kind of obvious ;)

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:42 am
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
So John, if that is the case, are they forbidden from entering into these discussions? On other professional forums there are people who are there to solve problems and answer questions, not just to babysit a forum (no offense tony). Why not here? Lack of resources? Company policy?

Many of these threads could be reduced, as well as the ill feelings, if we could get more information regarding our concerns. How is that too much to ask for? The blanket "we are working on it" just doesn't work for most of us who need information to either invest in work-arounds or invest in a camera product that can fulfill our needs. It is truly ill treatment of your investors and customers to keep them in the dark for so long. Sad.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:04 pm
by Jace Ross
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:So John, if that is the case, are they forbidden from entering into these discussions? On other professional forums there are people who are there to solve problems and answer questions, not just to babysit a forum (no offense tony). Why not here? Lack of resources? Company policy?

Many of these threads could be reduced, as well as the ill feelings, if we could get more information regarding our concerns. How is that too much to ask for? The blanket "we are working on it" just doesn't work for most of us who need information to either invest in work-arounds or invest in a camera product that can fulfill our needs. It is truly ill treatment of your investors and customers to keep them in the dark for so long. Sad.


They've said 100 times that they are working on updates and haven't forgotten the BMCC but they don't have any real update. This is what you fools seem to ask for all the time but when you get it isn't good enough. Perhaps they should post screenshots of the code as they are writing so you have proof?

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:25 pm
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
First....stop the name calling. We are not fools, we are customers who paid money for a product that does not operate to the sellers own specs over a year after release.

Secondly, no, they don't have to post code, but a friggin engineer could get on here with a post to tell us WHAT they are working on, WHICH items just are not possible to ever implement and WHEN they hope to release something. SET A DATE instead of this "drunk walking across an icy road" slip-around BS. GIve us your plan BM...are you waiting for that 4K to release working firmware for the BMCC? Are you waiting to sell off your stock of 1st gen 2.5k's before you release a new version with a processor and audio circuits that can actually deliver to your specs?

When someone is being questioned on motive and intent, and they refuse to give a concise, clear awnser with detail, then suspicions arise....I am suspicious that the 1st gen BMCC is INCAPABLE of ever having "professional quality audio" and proper rec709 in camera. I think that is why there was a price drop last year. They know it, and try as they might be....(if they actually are), it won't be delivered. so we either have to cut our losses and buy a camera that suits our needs or keep posting on this forum in hopes that someone will give us enough honest detailed information to let us feel any decision we make is the best in our interests.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:56 pm
by Jace Ross
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:First....stop the name calling. We are not fools, we are customers who paid money for a product that does not operate to the sellers own specs over a year after release.

Secondly, no, they don't have to post code, but a friggin engineer could get on here with a post to tell us WHAT they are working on, WHICH items just are not possible to ever implement and WHEN they hope to release something. SET A DATE instead of this "drunk walking across an icy road" slip-around BS. GIve us your plan BM...are you waiting for that 4K to release working firmware for the BMCC? Are you waiting to sell off your stock of 1st gen 2.5k's before you release a new version with a processor and audio circuits that can actually deliver to your specs?

When someone is being questioned on motive and intent, and they refuse to give a concise, clear awnser with detail, then suspicions arise....I am suspicious that the 1st gen BMCC is INCAPABLE of ever having "professional quality audio" and proper rec709 in camera. I think that is why there was a price drop last year. They know it, and try as they might be....(if they actually are), it won't be delivered. so we either have to cut our losses and buy a camera that suits our needs or keep posting on this forum in hopes that someone will give us enough honest detailed information to let us feel any decision we make is the best in our interests.


It seems appropriate. Which specs don't work?
The only things that don't work to expectations are based on marketing which will always say something is the best.

So they should breach NDA or get peoples hopes up? I work for a software company and I know full well why they don't announce updates. For example if they said "working on audio meters" and had to delay them due to glitches you'd get all skirty like this. The reality is that people want to complain any time they've spent money and didn't get the holy grail of purchases. The silence protects their work until it comes out in a way they are happy. Do you work in software development at all? If so you'd probably understand how hard it can be without infinite resources to stick to deadlines.

I think your tin-foil hat might be a tad tight. The price drop was most likely because they could afford to drop the price now that enough units had sold or perhaps because technology does lose value quickly.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:35 pm
by shanepeters@bellsouth.net
No, I do not work in software development. But to me that is not important. I understand the difficulty in doing all this, but the problem I am having is I bought a product advertised to work a specific way. Rec709 in camera lut (still admittedly not color accurate....red/orange issues) and Audio that requires extra gear and a post fix to make usable are the 2 problems that hinder this product and its professional use on a shoot. And after a year there is nothing more than a loose "we are working on it" promise is just not enough.Sure....no SSD space indicators, on-board audio meters, etc....are all required for ANY camera used in a professional application, but i am not holding them to that, as they did not promise those things. They promised in camera "professional quality audio" and ability to appy an in-camera lut that works without color correction (if you set your limited colorbalance option right.)

So to your point about the "holy grail".....I did not ask for that. I asked for a company to stand behind their claims. Not done yet. In the meantime, they have diverted resources to making 2 other camera products instead of making product #1 work as promised. If your software company put out a piece of software with promisses of what it would do, then delivered a product that did not fulfill those promises....then released another similar product in the meantime instead of making the 1st version work as advertised....do you think that would be a good buisness practice or ethic?

Does your software company have engineers and programmers help problem solve on your forums? Do you guys ever awnser questions to let customers know what is and is not actually possible with your software? IF someone asked for something that you KNOW cannot be implemented, do you keep them hoping or be up-front by telling them that is not possible. That is all we are asking for at this point. some honesty and more specific awnsers to our questions.

as far as my tin-foil had goes, your speculation as to the delay is no more ridiculous than mine. Many companies develop better, more capable products and drop the price on the last gen to get rid of them and focus attention on the newest product. But until someone has the balls to tell the truth about this issue, or at least tell us what the delay is regarding our firmware update, then both our speculations have equal merit.

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:44 pm
by gr8pics
I work with software.
Imo, its not about revealing new features, but generally just keep us in the loop.
They should hire a communication manager, informing us about the progress "hello again, as you may know, we are working on an update, but bugtesting of new features have taken a little longer than expected, so bla bla bla bla..."
It takes SO little extra to make a customers satisfied, instead of putting them on the ignore list, like they are doing here.
ANY INFO, IS BETTER THAN NO INFO!

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:20 pm
by Soeren Mueller
I would agree @ communication manager.. but then, thinking especially about some of the stuff that John mentioned regarding their "culture"... why would they have to do that? They are not obligated to keep anyone in the loop...
I am far from any kind of fanboy.. and it's not about finding "excuses".. it's just about being realistic. And if their approach to business/communication culture is like it is... and if you as a customer are having too big of a problem with that, then maybe it's not the right company/product for you and you should move on. Of course that's kind of hard to "wrap your mind around" when you really "want to like" the product (camera) or even are a big fan of it how it is supposed to work/be "in theory".

I for myself - while immensly respecting what they achieved/did and quite often having used their products - for example could never really warm up to RED.. as a company.. this whole "machismo" kind of thing.. it always stroke me as kind of the "Humvee" of the camera world.. so while happily using their products for paid gigs (they are far from bug free!) I tend to totally ignore all of their online forum/community stuff..
Personally I sympathize much more with BM.. the nerds from Oceania ;)

Re: Camera v1.5.1 available

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:21 pm
by Theodore Prentice
" In reality, I do not foresee the need to implement double-system sound when using the Cinema Camera, unlike traditional DSLR cameras that almost require double-system sound to be implemented."

"The Cinema Camera has zebra stripes now, and according to Blackmagic Design, they are adding histogram and waveform monitoring (at time of shipping, or in a firmware update after shipped units is not known at this time)."


Written 2012 (...what year is it now?)
http://library.creativecow.net/solorio_ ... a-Camera/1

So, we are just winey, entitled first adopters of the camera huh?

I love being attacked by fanboys with short term memory loss.....

<crickets>