4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

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Ben Wells

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4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 12:24 am

ND?
IR?
NDIR?
Brands?
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AdrianSierkowski

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 12:43 am

I use Schneider NDIR filters from 1.2 up to 2.1, below that I use their NDs in .6 and .9 My ND Grads are Tiffen, from .3 up to .9
I also like to use Tiffen Warm Black Pro Mists.

This is all on the pocket 2.5k/red/alexa/5d ect--filters I try to keep pretty universal, though with NDIRs it is mildly camera specific.
I highly recommend sticking with the top tier filters, those being Tiffen or Schneider. I have had bad experiences with Formatt (horrible green cast)--so I avoid them-- though who knows these days. Also Lee has some nice filters-- but I would only use them for color fxs, such as a coral grad, or a blue grad.

Sizing will depend on what mattebox you're working with. I use a 4x4 MB hence all my filtration is 4x4 or 138 round as I have that stage. The 4x4 covers me down to about 16mm on a S35mm chip (9.5mm on S16mm). Below that with my mattebox (Arri MB 16) I'd see it- so I'd have to switch out for a 6x6MB and filter set which would normally be a rental.
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Ben Wells

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 1:01 am

Thank you


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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 12:22 pm

If you can afford Tiffen or Schneider IRND's - that's the way to go.
I own a set of Tiffen in 4x5.65 filters and they are worth every penny.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 2:08 pm

So which ones.... Tiffen 4x4 IRND or Tiffen 4x4 Hot Mirror IRND ?
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 4:34 pm

I preffer an NDIR over a hot mirror.
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adamroberts

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 4:40 pm

I have a set of ProStop IRND from Formatt-Hitech. Work really well on the BMCC and BMPCC.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 5:26 pm

adamroberts wrote:I have a set of ProStop IRND from Formatt-Hitech. Work really well on the BMCC and BMPCC.


Remember the Abel Cine tests of a variety of filters on the BMCC? I think one of the lessons learned from that test was that ND filters may work better on a particular sensor compared to a different sensor. I’m not aware of any similar tests being done to determine which filters appear to give the best results with the sensor in the BMPC4K. That would be a very useful test to see.

I think we know the Hoya ProND filters are really the most neutral screw-on filters, and I suppose those expensive Japanese sheet filters (TrueND) would similarly be very neutral on the BMPC4K.
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Ben Wells

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 5:32 pm

This was my thinking as well Rick. Would love to see or hear of some test done specifically w BMPC 4k


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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 7:31 pm

When my BMPC4K eventually ships I'll run a side by side test.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 11:41 pm

I don't like the cyan color shift with dichroic hot mirror filters. I much prefer IRND; both the Schneider and Tiffen worked well, though I prefer the look of the Schneider. Edit: the camera was Epic and the Schneider just seemed to look better and be easier to control than the Tiffen on Epic, if that makes sense.
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Alexander Arndt

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSun Feb 16, 2014 12:06 am

i also own and recommend the tiffen irnd cut 0.9, 3 stops usual are enough most practically...depends...
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSun Feb 16, 2014 10:38 am

I have been looking at the Schneider MPTV Platinum IRND Filters vs. the regular Schneider ND filters. Would it be possible to simply combine the Schneider ND's with one Schneider IR filter for the same results of a combined IRND filter? Seems like the more affordable alternative.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

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Alexander Arndt

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSun Feb 16, 2014 11:14 am

i use the combined one to always have one free slot to use for another filter...
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSun Feb 16, 2014 5:21 pm

Exactly.It makes more sense to get a combined filter so you have extra room in your mattebox should you need yet another filter.
For example. It'll not be uncomming to run a NDIR1.5 a NDGrad.9 and some kind of diffusion filter on a digital camera if you happen to be shooting outside.

Just last weekend I was running a Sunset Grad, NDIR1.5 and a BlueGrad (upsidedown)
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 1:07 am

Interesting. You're right. Now do I need a combined NDIR even for the lower ND strength ND's or only off the heavy ones? Will be mostly using these on the BM4k and Red
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 1:10 am

I only really use an NDIR when I get over a .9-- so my NDIRs start at 1.2, and I typically find myselfreaching for a 1.5 a lot-- assuming shooting at 800
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 7:21 am

I had the opportunity to try out a set of Tiffen Full Spectrum WW IRND with my BMCC this weekend and I'm convinced they are the cleanest solution for this camera. To me, the BMCC has shown contamination with any level of ND and a cut of 680nm/700nm seemed to negate that contamination best. These particular filters are documented to remove contamination above 680nm, and in use they seem to just help the camera see neutral at various ND better to my eyes and are easiest to correct in post than the Tiffen T1 or Schneider True Cut filters I've used before with this camera. I didn't stack any of them, but I didn't need to on this shoot, so I'll have to check that out later, but, this weekend's shoot has pretty much convinced me and I think I'll wind up buying a set later.
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Alexander Arndt

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 11:11 am

the irnd cut 0.9 is here the most used combined filter to shoot outside i think, you never go above 1.2 or so ...i mean 3 stops down on a sunny day is quiete ok but this may depens also how hot it is etc...etc..
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 5:01 pm

3 stops down from a 800 on a sunny day is still somewhere around F16~F22 at 180 shutter 24 or 25fps.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 5:05 pm

Why aren't Mitomo/Bandpro TrueNDs being mentioned? Is it the price? Just curious.

Hoya hasn't made any Mattebox Filters yet, when they do that'll be good, so today if I were investing in filters it'd be the TrueNDs.

You can google around about them, tested on all sorts of cameras and have even been shown to do better than internal NDs.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 5:30 pm

Kholi wrote:Why aren't Mitomo/Bandpro TrueNDs being mentioned? Is it the price? Just curious.

Hoya hasn't made any Mattebox Filters yet, when they do that'll be good, so today if I were investing in filters it'd be the TrueNDs.

You can google around about them, tested on all sorts of cameras and have even been shown to do better than internal NDs.


Here's a really in depth test that's a worthwhile read for anyone with questions about ND filters - and features the Mitomo / Bandpro.

http://www.dvinfo.net/optical-science/o ... m-all.html
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 5:35 pm

That's one of the eye opening tests for me, Vince. I read that entire thing like four times, and after that began my manhunt for matching circular NDs.

That's how I came upon Hoya's new ProNDs, which are up there with TrueNDs considering price.

There are a few more tests like these around the net, and some smaller ones.

If I were the type to own a mattebox (I may soon, as I want to return to using grads more frequently and diffusion), TrueNDs would be a necessary cost for me. They do IR and remain neutral through their range.

Not much more you could ask for IMO!
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostMon Feb 17, 2014 6:29 pm

Kohli, I do use a Matte Box and those are on my radar. Just need a good reason or the right project...
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Ben Wells

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostTue Feb 18, 2014 8:48 pm

Bump


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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostTue Mar 04, 2014 7:04 pm

if you use a 35mm 1.4, your lens closed is 16, so nd0.9ir (3 stops down) it brings you an 8, pretty good despite that the lens has probably a sweet spot at 5.6. ok, if you want smal dof than 1.5 makes sense?

anyway, does anyone know how to spot the right side for the lens to look at for these tiffen filter? i must mark the side, on the nd0.9ir cut they say that one side reflects less than the other, but for me it looks quite the same :)

iam playing also a bit with the circular polariz filter from tiffen and black and white frost.
ups yeah iam using the bmcc.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSun May 04, 2014 6:10 pm

It may be shameless self-promotion, but it happens I'm selling an unused Formatt-Hitech 100x100 ProStop IRND 1,5 (I'm seldom using my 0,9 version and all the other times I use a VariND+IR-Cut), so if anyone is interested...
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Nikolay Smirnov

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostSun May 04, 2014 6:16 pm

adamroberts wrote:I have a set of ProStop IRND from Formatt-Hitech. Work really well on the BMCC and BMPCC.

Is it possible to stack them up? I am thinking about buying those too.
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adamroberts

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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostTue May 06, 2014 7:52 am

Nikolay Smirnov wrote:
adamroberts wrote:I have a set of ProStop IRND from Formatt-Hitech. Work really well on the BMCC and BMPCC.

Is it possible to stack them up? I am thinking about buying those too.

Yes they can be stacked.
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Re: 4x4 / 4x5.6 Filter set tests/recommendations for BMPC4K

PostTue May 06, 2014 10:09 am

While the Mitomo TrueNDs seem to be the non-plus-ultra for serious money, I made very good experiences with the Hot Mirror IRNDs from Skier (Taiwan). They are a tad too strong for the RED Scarlet, but perfect for the BM cameras, which seem to be very IR prone. They are really good for the price.

BTW, I made a test with an IR filter that blocks visible light under 750nm and let's only IR though and I got great B/W IR footage from the BMPCC on a sunny day. So there is not much IR blocking going on in the camera itself.

I'd recommend to use a Hoya IR cut all the time, it'll give you fresher greens and truer blacks.

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