New Firmware....

But if you take a 4k image even shot in camera from a GH4 and (as you can do) leverage 4 times the pixels down to an HD image you can (using the right software) end up with a 10 bit 4:4:4 image that looks and grades very well.

You can't get 10 bits HD from 8 bits UHD, this whole story on EOSHD is heavy misunderstanding and should not be spread as if true and proven (but the benefits regarding chroma subsampling are real).

(that doesn't mean that GH4 UHD downscaled to HD doesn't have the potential to look gorgeous)

Yep, it comes down to how it looks. My guess is there will be content popping up that will be pretty impressive for a $1,600 camera body. There are already at least three shooters Im aware of with decades of time in the game including one Oscar winning Cinematographer that have made the purchase and are having some fun with these.

But if you take a 4k image even shot in camera from a GH4 and (as you can do) leverage 4 times the pixels down to an HD image you can (using the right software) end up with a 10 bit 4:4:4 image that looks and grades very well.

You can't get 10 bits HD from 8 bits UHD, this whole story on EOSHD is heavy misunderstanding and should not be spread as if true and proven (but the benefits regarding chroma subsampling are real).

(that doesn't mean that GH4 UHD downscaled to HD doesn't have the potential to look gorgeous)

Yep, it comes down to how it looks. My guess is there will be content popping up that will be pretty impressive for a $1,600 camera body. There are already at least three shooters Im aware of with decades of time in the game including one Oscar winning Cinematographer that have made the purchase and are having some fun with these.

There's footage popping up from GoPro Hero3+'s I could say the same about. In this context, it has little to do with the camera. Picture to picture, I don't know many people that would choose to shoot a basic narrative with a goPro over a Pocket Cam?

I seriously woke up today thinking today was the day! Haha.

We're closing to july. Anyone still thinks URSA has nothing to do with it?

Interesting idea, im not sure there is any advantage to BMD to do it this way .... thinking about this one ..

There's footage popping up from GoPro Hero3+'s I could say the same about. In this context, it has little to do with the camera. Picture to picture, I don't know many people that would choose to shoot a basic narrative with a goPro over a Pocket Cam?

Have to just wait and see how it plays out in the next year or so.
I think were seeing image quality becoming more and more ubiquitous. Im not sure that in a few years barring features and build quality that, what camera you buy wont make much difference by the time you deliver your product. Of course I would not put a GoPro in this category but as far as cameras more along the lines of a BMPCC or GH4 or SONY equivelence .... as technology advances and market competition heats up even more, images will start becoming indistinguishable from one another. You heard it here first --

Of course GoPro footage has shown up all over broadcast TV, for a type of content.

If they're trying to bring all the software to the same platform I can see them waiting on the URSA release. That way there's only one update and the dev team gets a little breather. If they update the 1st gen cameras, and leave one of the many requested features out, then update the URSA with that same feature, everyone will just rant and say how much BMD sucks. Personally, I haven't had any issues with my camera. I'd love a higher FPS, wish the sound was better, but I can live without it for $3,000 and 2 great cameras. It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!! Then I realize that those people are only mad themselves. A bunch of grown men (maybe women too) bickering over a camera. Every day. Every day. Every day. Sell your car and buy a RED. Wait. Sell your car and get a second mortgage on your house and buy a RED. Or... Just go shoot. It really isn't that bad. Just go shoot.

If they're trying to bring all the software to the same platform I can see them waiting on the URSA release. That way there's only one update and the dev team gets a little breather. If they update the 1st gen cameras, and leave one of the many requested features out, then update the URSA with that same feature, everyone will just rant and say how much BMD sucks. Personally, I haven't had any issues with my camera. I'd love a higher FPS, wish the sound was better, but I can live without it for $3,000 and 2 great cameras. It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!! Then I realize that those people are only mad themselves. A bunch of grown men (maybe women too) bickering over a camera. Every day. Every day. Every day. Sell your car and buy a RED. Wait. Sell your car and get a second mortgage on your house and buy a RED. Or... Just go shoot. It really isn't that bad. Just go shoot.

+1

There's footage popping up from GoPro Hero3+'s I could say the same about. In this context, it has little to do with the camera. Picture to picture, I don't know many people that would choose to shoot a basic narrative with a goPro over a Pocket Cam?

Have to just wait and see how it plays out in the next year or so.
I think were seeing image quality becoming more and more ubiquitous. Im not sure that in a few years barring features and build quality that, what camera you buy wont make much difference by the time you deliver your product. Of course I would not put a GoPro in this category but as far as cameras more along the lines of a BMPCC or GH4 or SONY equivelence .... as technology advances and market competition heats up even more, images will start becoming indistinguishable from one another. You heard it here first --

Of course GoPro footage has shown up all over broadcast TV, for a type of content.

I like this discussion!

I have to disagree, though. I don't think it's becoming ubiquitous, I think as content creators we are INUNDATED with so many flavors of digital compounded by the fact that a large majority of us can't afford the BEST digital flavors (F35, Alexa, Phantom for slow mo freaks) that we start to settle for what we think we can get away with.

Before the 2.5K camera came out I was going to settle for a Scarlet. Was LITERALLY on the verge of getting a battle tested model to start shooting with, and I think TWO days later I got a call at like 6AM about the 2.5K camera, saw the footage, pre-ordered before an SKU was even up.

From someone that pixel peeps, gear lusts on a daily basis (today I am sad and yet relieved I didn't go in on the Varavon Birdycam preorder, but now deciding if I want to finally get a 70-200 Canon), I still see the differences, and they are major.

As technology advances, the only way to sell something is to make it different. No, I don't believe images will be similar at all as long as a human needs to use the tool, an artist and not someone just looking to make a quick buck.

Can't imagine anyone is buying the BMPC4K given all the problems, and with new cameras from competitors, one has to believe that the sales of BMCC and BMPCC products have dried up. They are probably hoping that URSA is going to bail them out, but as usual, it's taking them a lot longer than they expected/announced.
So it's all hands on deck for the URSA and little happening on the firmware front.

I believe it has already been stated by Kristian or Terry that they are not building a unified firmware for all of the cameras like what Nvidia does for drivers. Each camera will have it's own dedicated firmware, they have only stated that they are updating the BMCC's more primitive firmware to be more inline with the rest allowing more code sharing between cameras. If the URSA is to blame it would be BMD dedicating all resources to getting this camera out on time. The update will be released when it is ready regardless of what happens with the URSA. Hence do not be surprised to see the URSA released with a firmware update that only adds its support and no updates for current cameras until sometime after that.

I thought the whole point of this update was to have a unified firmware.


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I thought the whole point of this update was to have a unified firmware.

Apparently BMD only updates updates, when new update is going to be released. Ohh wait not released, just announced.

I thought the whole point of this update was to have a unified firmware.


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Unified meaning there is only one firmware updater to down load. But within that updater there is separate code for each camera, based on the camera's internal hardware. Some code would work on all, some has to be individualized to the particular model. This is why the "unified firmware" excuse is so bogus, in my opinion.

As far as firmware release date, if you think it would come after URSA now, that is beginning to slip and slide away. In this interview, employee says something like "we said it would come out in summer, so probably at end of July." That a lot different than original shipping in July.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23722

Funny, that thread was sent to "Off Topic".

It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!!

Unbelievable! You still don't get it do you?

If Ford advertises a car with air conditioning but the car I buy doesn't have A/C are we supposed to just be happy to have a car and not say anything about the missing feature?

It's ok Ford, you are such great guys, we don't care that you told us for a year it would have A/C, advertise the product as such, and then are surprised when we complain.

If you can't produce the car With A/C, then don't advertise it as such!!

Unbelievable fanboyism...

I understand the anger of the 4K FPN owner.
Not so much for the others
I'm happy with my BMCC , and I'm happy anytime I have a usable camera in my hands. Today I shot a music video with an F3 , needed slow motion but had no money . It was the cheapest acceptable solution around here, we shot 50p internally... I was worried about the footage , but it seems pretty good once on the computer.
It would honnestly have been better with the BMCC , and that all the point : to record a 422 10bit on an F3 , it would have cost me at least 2X the price I paid for the whole brand new BMCC setup, and just for second hand products.
Who bought a BMCC and a pocket here and did not won/saved enough money to pay at least twice their camera with all accessories?

Of course the camera lacks of lots of things , and i'd love to see a new firmware ... But the next firmware will not adress these lacking at all.
True improvement will probably start in the next one.
So don't be upset and support our fellow cameraman co worker who are stuck with FPN .

I shot 720p 8 bits outdoor in a sunny day and it made me happy as a kid to see how usable it is.
Maybe it is too soon for 4K , maybe we don't need it even if we want it. Maybe sometimes we can stop grumping and enjoy shooting , whatever the tool is.

It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!!

Unbelievable! You still don't get it do you?

If Ford advertises a car with air conditioning but the car I buy doesn't have A/C are we supposed to just be happy to have a car and not say anything about the missing feature?

It's ok Ford, you are such great guys, we don't care that you told us for a year it would have A/C, advertise the product as such, and then are surprised when we complain.

If you can't produce the car With A/C, then don't advertise it as such!!

Unbelievable fanboyism...

+1

It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!!

Unbelievable! You still don't get it do you?

If Ford advertises a car with air conditioning but the car I buy doesn't have A/C are we supposed to just be happy to have a car and not say anything about the missing feature?

It's ok Ford, you are such great guys, we don't care that you told us for a year it would have A/C, advertise the product as such, and then are surprised when we complain.

If you can't produce the car With A/C, then don't advertise it as such!!

Unbelievable fanboyism...

+1

It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!!

Unbelievable! You still don't get it do you?

If Ford advertises a car with air conditioning but the car I buy doesn't have A/C are we supposed to just be happy to have a car and not say anything about the missing feature?

It's ok Ford, you are such great guys, we don't care that you told us for a year it would have A/C, advertise the product as such, and then are surprised when we complain.

If you can't produce the car With A/C, then don't advertise it as such!!

Unbelievable fanboyism...

+1. Makes perfect sense. Add the fact that car also has FPN, like the engine sputters or something and we should be really upset.

It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!!

Unbelievable! You still don't get it do you?

If Ford advertises a car with air conditioning but the car I buy doesn't have A/C are we supposed to just be happy to have a car and not say anything about the missing feature?

It's ok Ford, you are such great guys, we don't care that you told us for a year it would have A/C, advertise the product as such, and then are surprised when we complain.

If you can't produce the car With A/C, then don't advertise it as such!!

Unbelievable fanboyism...

+1

With all of the speculation in this thread it is worse then a sewing circle.

And you seem to be a sexist brute, Abe !

It really bothers me how people buy stuff at an outrageous deal, then complain that it's not the same as the more expensive option. STFU!!

Unbelievable! You still don't get it do you?

If Ford advertises a car with air conditioning but the car I buy doesn't have A/C are we supposed to just be happy to have a car and not say anything about the missing feature?

It's ok Ford, you are such great guys, we don't care that you told us for a year it would have A/C, advertise the product as such, and then are surprised when we complain.

If you can't produce the car With A/C, then don't advertise it as such!!

Unbelievable fanboyism...

Hmmm Maybe!

Well, Yes since I know "Ford" is creating a really BADASS AC unit to install, but just doesn't have it ready yet!
And this future AC unit which will work in car will quadruple the performance of the vehicle and do it with out any outside parts or additional cost.
And once I get this in house designed BADASS AC unit installed free of charge my car will outperform all most all other cars and at a fraction of the price then YES! YES I will buy that car from "Ford" and say Thank You for doing this.
And on top of that "Ford" is releasing the vehicle for me to take home right NOW with just the plain stock AC, which by the way is still better than must other car companies are producing with their flagship vehicles.

Now remember we are talking about cars, right?
And if I was about to drop some major $$$$ on a new car I would research it right?
And If I did research buying this new "Ford" I would most definitely 100% run into a review stating that BADASS AC unit is not ready yet but will be ready to install soon free of charge and is VERY much worth the wait.
And! And, this is a big one! If someone was to buy a "CAR" without researching it you would call them what.... well you would probably call them a idiot.

Disclaimer: This reply is only about the "Fords" shipping without SUPER BADASS AC. This isn't a reply about a handful of "Fords having minor engine troubles" which I have researched and have found out they are taking care of.

Everyone here seems to be a F-ing professor when it comes to research to find Law quotes and any other articles to bash "Ford", but some how can't figure out that the Super AC unit's are coming at a later date.

And "Ford" I don't have the money for your current on the market super car, but I did buy the mini version which had that Super badass AC installed and it is awesome thanks!

If acting like a rational person makes me a FANBOY than yes... Yes I'm a FANBOY!

I think you're missing part of the point. This car has NO AC unit. It has a blower in it, but it doesn't pipe out nice frosty air. Just outside air. It was said that they would be releasing it post-shipping, but it has taken far too long for them to do it. Even after it was "really close" to being done. That's why people are so upset.

I think you're missing part of the point. This car has NO AC unit. It has a blower in it, but it doesn't pipe out nice frosty air. Just outside air. It was said that they would be releasing it post-shipping, but it has taken far too long for them to do it. Even after it was "really close" to being done. That's why people are so upset.

I'm not missing the point at all. The camera comes with Prores which I have seen some videos coming out of these cameras and I have literally been blown away (nice stock AC) I can't even imagine what some of the guys who are using the camera for work are going to produce when the Raw is enabled.
And for people on here being mad cause it's late looks different to me. All I see is people posting about how BMD lied cause it's not on the camera liked advertised, and some how they were tricked into believing it was there.
I know some are also upset about the BMCC late firmware, ok cool I get that part. But the Raw issue is well.... not a issue.

I think you're missing part of the point. This car has NO AC unit. It has a blower in it, but it doesn't pipe out nice frosty air. Just outside air. It was said that they would be releasing it post-shipping, but it has taken far too long for them to do it. Even after it was "really close" to being done. That's why people are so upset.

I'm not missing the point at all. The camera comes with Prores which I have seen some videos coming out of these cameras and I have literally been blown away (nice stock AC) I can't even imagine what some of the guys who are using the camera for work are going to produce when the Raw is enabled.
And for people on here being mad cause it's late looks different to me. All I see is people posting about how BMD lied cause it's not on the camera liked advertised, and some how they were tricked into believing it was there.
I know some are also upset about the BMCC late firmware, ok cool I get that part. But the Raw issue is well.... not a issue.

This proves you miss the point.

Maybe it's most like buying a hybrid car and then finding out it only runs on gas.

Except you'll have to go in to get free work done on it when they finish developing the batteries. Then it becomes the hybrid you bought

I think we can stop using analogies. Thats not helping anymore...

I think we can stop using analogies. Thats not helping anymore...

+1

The bottom line is that they falsely advertise features and then take forever to add them, and the companies camera line is poorly managed. That is undebatable.

Hi,

This thread is really getting awfully pathetic
We all know it is a delayed software project and this has to do mainly with losing focus as I wrote earlier in this thread. It has nothing to do with the size of the company or the team. We should know this by now hence there are many small software start-ups that made it big or rather incomprehensibly huge
Many write ups on this exist but here is an example:
http://blog.bufferapp.com/small-teams-w ... -more-done

Unifying code base is not the main reason for delay, re-architecting is. And I don't blame the software team. How can they architect for the unkown. How can they envisage an architecture that's "one" for such as the POCKET, BMPC 4K, Studio, URSA when they were excitingly writing code for the BMCC. Those additional cameras were not at the BMD radar screen and it is all right.
What is not right is to try and unify if unification is going to take so long that by the time they get the proper required feature sets in the firmware (beyond the soon promised one) the BMCC will be outdated as a tech piece anyways.

Sometimes we think unification is going to bring efficiency. But are we after efficiency as a bottom line? Or is it net profitability we are after? Efficiency does not necessarily mean more profitability. Especially in this case.
Customers are not after standardization, they are after a good functional device that adds value.

I still believe that BMD has something special about it and that they can make a difference if they rethink their strategy. They need not to be Sony or RED but they can differ to make the difference their customers thrive to.

And thanks to BMD other companies are emerging such as Kinefinity and AJA and hopefully they can be both: customer & product focused.

Regards,
Thani

There isn't a lawsuit anywhere here, in any of this or anything else. At all. Sorry.

Not sure what you you mean by "in any of this" but if one reads through the U.S. standards on deceptive advertising as outlined here: http://www.ftc.gov/ftc-policy-statement-on-deception I think most reasonable observers would be forced to conclude that, at least under US law, there are issues that could be fairly raised with respect to a number of Black Magic Design's claims and practices.

A good case could be made that certain claims were indeed "misleading in a material respect" in a couple of instances as discussed here in exhaustive detail.

US residents can complain to the FTC (a better use of time that complaining here), however, the BMD issues are not ones that fall within the US FTCs enforcement priorities, so any action would probably have to be a private action. It's a very complex area of the the law, however, and private action would be costly and time consuming.

All that said, I own a BMCC and have made money with it and have experienced no major issues to date, but I find (as one who has worked in these areas going on 20 years) the company's marketing, advertising, and PR practices, to be baffling and not in its best interests in the long run. Clearly, BMD needs better professional advice in these areas.

One thing I think should also be clear by now: the company is not going to do or say anything as the result on complaints on this thread.

One thing I think should also be clear by now: the company is not going to do or say anything as the result on complaints on this thread.

That's not true. When we spoke up en masse after NAB, they gave us some answers in several replies. For weeks before they said nothing.

Granted it's mostly lip service, but they did respond. I think they need a periodic jab with a pointed stick to at least admit we are here, we exist, we are not happy,

One thing I think should also be clear by now: the company is not going to do or say anything as the result on complaints on this thread.

That's not true. When we spoke up en masse after NAB, they gave us some answers in several replies. For weeks before they said nothing.

Granted it's mostly lip service, but they did respond. I think they need a periodic jab with a pointed stick to at least admit we are here, we exist, we are not happy,

Yep - they promised an update in 4 weeks just to shut everyone up at NAB. It was becoming embarrassing for them. Unfortunately, it appears that the promise was a lie, and they weren't actually doing anything on the firmware update. The "4 weeks" is now 11, and counting.

As has been expressed before by many posters, it's not just that it's late. It's that you can't believe anything BM says.

One thing I think should also be clear by now: the company is not going to do or say anything as the result on complaints on this thread.

That's not true. When we spoke up en masse after NAB, they gave us some answers in several replies. For weeks before they said nothing.

Granted it's mostly lip service, but they did respond. I think they need a periodic jab with a pointed stick to at least admit we are here, we exist, we are not happy,

Yep - they promised an update in 4 weeks just to shut everyone up at NAB. It was becoming embarrassing for them. Unfortunately, it appears that the promise was a lie, and they weren't actually doing anything on the firmware update. The "4 weeks" is now 11, and counting.

As has been expressed before by many posters, it's not just that it's late. It's that you can't believe anything BM says.

+1

Yeah. 4 weeks was a complete and utter lie.

Yep - they promised an update in 4 weeks just to shut everyone up at NAB. It was becoming embarrassing for them. Unfortunately, it appears that the promise was a lie, and they weren't actually doing anything on the firmware update. The "4 weeks" is now 11, and counting.

As has been expressed before by many posters, it's not just that it's late. It's that you can't believe anything BM says.

+2

That's the thing; this company has ZERO integrity. Besides telling a bold face lie at NAB, how hard would it actually be to put an asterisk on the box, stating that raw is not available yet? Also, why falsely advertise the audio capabilities of the BMCC, if "cinema" camera means you never record useful audio to cam?

That's the thing; this company has ZERO integrity. Besides telling a bold face lie at NAB, how hard would it actually be to put an asterisk on the box, stating that raw is not available yet? Also, why falsely advertise the audio capabilities of the BMCC, if "cinema" camera means you never record useful audio to cam?

+1

Nevermind the asterisk on the box. Put it in the tech specs on the website!

I think you all are projecting your own personalty faults on to BMD, at this point.
If your unconscious mind managed to see the difference between your own psyche
and the electronic brain of your Blackmagic camera, you wouldn't be so angry. Because
the hidden depths of your mind are waiting for a firmware update for its own functioning right now,
and its impatient. And when the bmd update arrives, it will feel very cheated, you will
notice this as a depression. You are going to feel bad for some time.

I think you all are projecting your own personalty faults on to BMD, at this point.
If your unconscious mind managed to see the difference between your own psyche
and the electronic brain of your Blackmagic camera, you wouldn't be so angry. Because
the hidden depths of your mind are waiting for a firmware update for its own functioning right now,
and its impatient. And when the bmd update arrives, it will feel very cheated, you will
notice this as a depression. You are going to feel bad for some time.

-1. This doesn't even make sense.

It makes sense! No doubt!
By the way,
I just studied the box that my bmpc came in. And where the f… is the mattebox from the picture? Its
NOT in the box! Man, I feel cheated right now.

It makes sense! No doubt!
By the way,
I just studied the box that my bmpc came in. And where the f… is the mattebox from the picture? Its
NOT in the box! Man, I feel cheated right now.

Why are you being a jerk? It doesn't specify that a matte box is included. It does specify RAW recording. Not only does it specify it, it's one of the biggest selling points.

Studies clearly states that a photographic image is a far bigger selling point than any written text!
Thats not beeing a jerk, thats science!

That's the thing; this company has ZERO integrity. Besides telling a bold face lie at NAB, how hard would it actually be to put an asterisk on the box, stating that raw is not available yet? Also, why falsely advertise the audio capabilities of the BMCC, if "cinema" camera means you never record useful audio to cam?

I've contacted the ACCC about this.

I don't understand how anyone can defend Blackmagic at this point - it's absolutely insane, probably certifiably.

I don't understand how anyone can defend Blackmagic at this point - it's absolutely insane, probably certifiably.

Agreed. Maybe like 6 months ago we could have defended them.

Holy **** you guys: [url=http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/CinemaCamera/Blackmagic_Camera_Utility_Windows_1.8.zip]http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/CinemaCamera/Blackmagic_Camera_Utility_Windows_1.8.zip
[url=http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/CinemaCamera/Blackmagic_Camera_Utility_Macintosh_1.8.zip]http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/CinemaCamera/Blackmagic_Camera_Utility_Macintosh_1.8.zip



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Is this Legit!!?

Is this Legit!!?

Seems to be, I don't have BMD cameras so can't test but there's is not much fixed...

FPN is not fixed.. no audio meters...

everything* else is "improved"

its legit. I just downloaded and I'm installing it right now.