Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 1:09 am

Dimitrios Papagiannis wrote:Grant

Of course we would rather hear the truth than be dealt a classic "Apple" type of corporate response of non-responsible rhetoric. And I am sure that many feel like they are glad that you have let us know what is going on. Nonetheless I believe the question should be...

Grant, if you had pre-ordered a BMCC, what would you expect from Blackmagic as acceptable compensation for this ordeal.


Compensation for waiting....can't help but laugh, you are joking aren't you ??
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Ryan McCarvill

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 1:33 am

I had to register to make this comment, half the people here are making this forum unusable, I want information not complaints.

Your complaints are loud and clear.
Your complaints are justified.
Your demands are unreasonable.

Lets leave it at that and try and be productive, flaming a message board is not going to make BMD cave to your demands, all it does is make us as the customer look unreasonable, and in some cases psychotic. Take the high ground here, BMD is in the wrong, they know it, and they are probably stressed to the max. Let's not make their job harder than it is. Last thing we want is to pressure them into releasing cameras that are "good enough" rather than perfect.

So once again, you've made your point, it's clearly been heard. Lets leave it at that.
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Bill Rich

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 2:00 am

Thank you disordinary! I agree.. the conversation has circled and lapped itself too many times to count.
We asked for an update.. we got it.. Hopefully things are on track and we'll get our cameras soon..
Cheers all!
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10s

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 2:23 am

Black Magic should quickly improve their situation by hiring a good Master Six Sigma Black Belt consultant for a short period. They will help put all input processes into statistical control so quality is excellent and profits are piling up. This is basically your quickest way to get this sorted out and it will become a stable mfg. process you can count on.
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dennysb

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:49 am

Somebody please pull the pin on this GRENADE (forum thread) and stop the crazy talk!

I think I am going to watch "Hara-Kiri: Death of a Samurai" Ichimei (original title). Its way less violent that this. :o
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Dave Dominguez

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 6:01 am

does anyone remember BMD saying it was "certification" that was holding up the shipments?

I'm glad there was an update, but it doesn't sound good.
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Jason Davis

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 6:15 am

Dave Dominguez wrote:does anyone remember BMD saying it was "certification" that was holding up the shipments?

I'm glad there was an update, but it doesn't sound good.


Back in the day it was the Thunderbolt certification. There is a bunch of stuff that goes with being able to use the Thunderbolt name and the lightning logo so I'm 100% that was legit, besides, this was when everything was getting finalized and before the sensor company changed the bonding company so they hadn't started massing yet.
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Taikonaut

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 7:07 am

rawCAM35 wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:Grant and his team may be innovating engineers and good at it and I agree he does deserve some respect in that context. Now being an engineer does not automatically means being a sound businessmen running a factory overseeing top down mass production of a popular product, that requires another set of skills outside of being an engineer. So in those context BMD management falls well short of doing a good job.


Do you know how many other products were successfully developed, manufactured and distributed by BMD ?, do you think that was just a pure luck and management was not required ??


Mass production on a global scale on par with Canon, Nikon, Sony? None....
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 10:10 am

Taikonaut wrote:
rawCAM35 wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:Grant and his team may be innovating engineers and good at it and I agree he does deserve some respect in that context. Now being an engineer does not automatically means being a sound businessmen running a factory overseeing top down mass production of a popular product, that requires another set of skills outside of being an engineer. So in those context BMD management falls well short of doing a good job.


Do you know how many other products were successfully developed, manufactured and distributed by BMD ?, do you think that was just a pure luck and management was not required ??


Mass production on a global scale on par with Canon, Nikon, Sony? None....


Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 10:31 am

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


That is a poor example. Sony have different divisions from home entertainment (this is the one losing the most of money for them due to dwindling TV sales) to their Broadcast division. I know from personal experience that every deck in a Broadcast environment (from the Sony Betacam of the past to the current HDCAM SR) is made by Sony as are a lot of Studio camera'a.

Also, Sony were communicating by going to the consumers for design decisions LOOONG before BMD did the same thing with John Brawley. FS100 for example.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 11:48 am

Costa wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


That is a poor example. Sony have different divisions from home entertainment (this is the one losing the most of money for them due to dwindling TV sales) to their Broadcast division. I know from personal experience that every deck in a Broadcast environment (from the Sony Betacam of the past to the current HDCAM SR) is made by Sony as are a lot of Studio camera'a.

Also, Sony were communicating by going to the consumers for design decisions LOOONG before BMD did the same thing with John Brawley. FS100 for example.



As a company as a whole they are posting MASSIVE opperating losses. It matter not where the losses are Sony is losing money as a company. That is ultimately bad management.

I will also point out that the fact that everyones using your kit matters little if you end up bankrupt.

An individual division can be losing money but still be of benifit to the company, but if that decisions dragging the whole company down then managment is failing.

THsi isnt an example meant to show the sucess of a company in getting its product out there, its an example to show that inspite of that success if any part of your company is losing money to the extent sony has and you fail to arrest that slide you cannot be held as an example of overall good management. It amtters not if one of your dicisions is the slickest most efficently managed entity out there when looked at as a compnent if the overall comapny management allows another part to drag you down with it.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 12:23 pm

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Costa wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


That is a poor example. Sony have different divisions from home entertainment (this is the one losing the most of money for them due to dwindling TV sales) to their Broadcast division. I know from personal experience that every deck in a Broadcast environment (from the Sony Betacam of the past to the current HDCAM SR) is made by Sony as are a lot of Studio camera'a.

Also, Sony were communicating by going to the consumers for design decisions LOOONG before BMD did the same thing with John Brawley. FS100 for example.



As a company as a whole they are posting MASSIVE opperating losses. It matter not where the losses are Sony is losing money as a company. That is ultimately bad management.

I will also point out that the fact that everyones using your kit matters little if you end up bankrupt.

An individual division can be losing money but still be of benifit to the company, but if that decisions dragging the whole company down then managment is failing.

THsi isnt an example meant to show the sucess of a company in getting its product out there, its an example to show that inspite of that success if any part of your company is losing money to the extent sony has and you fail to arrest that slide you cannot be held as an example of overall good management. It amtters not if one of your dicisions is the slickest most efficently managed entity out there when looked at as a compnent if the overall comapny management allows another part to drag you down with it.


I'm finding it hard to ascertain what you point is? Sony is a MASSIVE company with MANY divisions and BMD is tiny in comparison. If you were to then compare Sony's camera/broadcast division to BMD (which is fare in this comparison) then Sony wins as I'm sure you have already agreed... so again, I fail to see your point?
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:08 pm

Let's see if that "end of the week update" is coming :roll: Hopefully, they won't revert back to being silent / non-communicative.
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Christine Peterson

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:20 pm

Grant Petty wrote:I will let you all know later this week or early next when we get some of these sensors to build cameras with and will know if we can start production full speed again.

We're still expecting to have an update early next week.
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:30 pm

Christine Peterson wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:I will let you all know later this week or early next when we get some of these sensors to build cameras with and will know if we can start production full speed again.

We're still expecting to have an update early next week.


Thanks for the reply, looking forward to the update! :)
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:38 pm

Christine Peterson wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:I will let you all know later this week or early next when we get some of these sensors to build cameras with and will know if we can start production full speed again.

We're still expecting to have an update early next week.


That is perhaps the most confusing part of the last update on at least two levels. Has BMD ever been at "full speed" production on the BMC and what is "full speed" production? I fully realize that BMD is not going to answer those questions but the questions remain and under the current circumstances are very legitimate.
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:46 pm

Questions for Grant, or whom ever post the coming update:

Once the sensors are good, will EF pre orders be fulfilled by January 1st? Will MFT orders ship by January 1st?

What should we expect for delivery, once sensors are good?

These questions are for both versions of the Blackmagic cinema camera.
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Luke Armstrong

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:52 pm

mhood wrote:
Christine Peterson wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:I will let you all know later this week or early next when we get some of these sensors to build cameras with and will know if we can start production full speed again.

We're still expecting to have an update early next week.


That is perhaps the most confusing part of the last update on at least two levels. Has BMD ever been at "full speed" production on the BMC and what is "full speed" production? I fully realize that BMD is not going to answer those questions but the questions remain and under the current circumstances are very legitimate.


Agreed. This really does need to be answered, even if not with specific numbers. It is the difference between a lingering tailback for many months to come, or a more immediate resolution.

Equally, if you don't actually know yet because you've not experienced 'full speed' production in practice, please say so!

We'd rather you told us you don't know than have you hold out on us, because it draws suspicion that you're not telling us the full story! :)
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 3:56 pm

mhood wrote:
Christine Peterson wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:I will let you all know later this week or early next when we get some of these sensors to build cameras with and will know if we can start production full speed again.

We're still expecting to have an update early next week.


That is perhaps the most confusing part of the last update on at least two levels. Has BMD ever been at "full speed" production on the BMC and what is "full speed" production? I fully realize that BMD is not going to answer those questions but the questions remain and under the current circumstances are very legitimate.


If I understood the updates correctly, they started noticing the sensor defects when they began ramping up to mass production, after product testing was complete. The defects made mass production fail however, so I'd guess production has never been at "full speed", whatever that speed might be... I hope BMD has some good news early next week and hopefully also some more specific numbers or an estimate of when to expect our cameras.
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 4:55 pm

I dont want to speculate anymore.

I just want to know if once the sensors are good, will EF pre orders be fulfilled by January 1st or when? Will MFT orders ship in December as advertised?

What should we expect for delivery, once sensors are good?
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 4:58 pm

[quote="Costa]
I'm finding it hard to ascertain what you point is? Sony is a MASSIVE company with MANY divisions and BMD is tiny in comparison. If you were to then compare Sony's camera/broadcast division to BMD (which is fare in this comparison) then Sony wins as I'm sure you have already agreed... so again, I fail to see your point?[/quote]

My original point was that taking the original list of example companies, as a list of what mass production was was not a good defintion of Mass production.

In the point about Sony not being a good show of management its size is irrelivant, and no comparison to BM was intended originally. Parts of Sony are well managed, however Sony as a whole clearly has some major flaws in its management. The point in short was that Sony (Not Sony Broadcasting) is not the best example of good management.

A division of a conglomerate like sony, and a small company like BM arent comparible anyway management, being part of something like Sony gives you safety nets and etc. You cant manage BM in the way you manage Sony broadcast.

However there are base principles that apply equally to BM and sony as a whole. The relevent one to my argument is that if part of your buiness is losing so much money its keeping the buisness as a whole plunging into the red then you have to deal with it. This applies just as much to a tiny one man video maker as it does to a massive conglomerate like sony. In the one man band situation it may be that a particular product has become more costly to produce, in Sony's case their TVs arent selling. The difference is merely scale.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:04 pm

AJ.infinite wrote:I dont want to speculate anymore.

I just want to know if once the sensors are good, will EF pre orders be fulfilled by January 1st or when? Will MFT orders ship in December as advertised?

What should we expect for delivery, once sensors are good?


Thats the million dollar question and can cause a huge problem with BMD.

If the MFT start delivering on time around Dec and the EF trickles ever so slowly, we might have a real issue here.

I am sure BMD has plans to deal with that one.

Hoping...
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:12 pm

Eric Santiago wrote:
AJ.infinite wrote:I dont want to speculate anymore.

I just want to know if once the sensors are good, will EF pre orders be fulfilled by January 1st or when? Will MFT orders ship in December as advertised?

What should we expect for delivery, once sensors are good?


Thats the million dollar question and can cause a huge problem with BMD.

If the MFT start delivering on time around Dec and the EF trickles ever so slowly, we might have a real issue here.

I am sure BMD has plans to deal with that one.

Hoping...


An issue in what respect? Issue with people complaining?

What ever happens people will complain, even if the EF is fulfilled before the MFT! The MFT people will start moaning as the release wasn't met, the EF people will moan if the they don't fulfil the EF before the MFT etc and people like me will moan no matter what;)

This is a royal mess BMD have gotten into and I am starting to feel like no one will be happy unless by some miracle ALL preorders are met my 1st January!
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:14 pm

Its a question that needs to be answered. They can tell us their goal, and what we can expect.

I asked if the EF cameras would be fulfilled by January? That might be wishful, but BMD can answer accordingly. Will the MFT ship in December as advertised?

These are questions for EF, and MFT customers.

Everyone wants to know the answers to these questions, and there is no reason to be cluttering this thread with arguments about SONY or any other issue, that has nothing to do with the BMCC shipment status.
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:24 pm

Once production has ramped up, I think it would be fair to give the EF model priority, e.g. to manufacture and ship out EF models at 90% capacity and let MFT models "trickle out" at 10% production capacity. After all, there has been a much longer wait for the EF model and if they start producing a small number of MFT models for December, it will technically meet their release date. Once the EF pre-orders are met, they could then start MFT production at 100%. (Just my opinion).
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:37 pm

cschmeer wrote:Once production has ramped up, I think it would be fair to give the EF model priority, e.g. to manufacture and ship out EF models at 90% capacity and let MFT models "trickle out" at 10% production capacity. After all, there has been a much longer wait for the EF model and if they start producing a small number of MFT models for December, it will technically meet their release date. Once the EF pre-orders are met, they could then start MFT production at 100%. (Just my opinion).


I understand your opinion, but let's allow BMD to answer the questions first. EF before MFT might seem fair, but anyone that has paid for an item, should get the item. BMD said EF buyers could switch to MFT without penalty, and many have switched, so I can see how it could make either side upset, but the question is: when will we all get the camera's? EF or MFT *I'm not interested in fair or unfair, all I want to know is when will I get my camera? I'm number 3 at my dealer, and paid for the camera in full, what if numbers 1, and 2 have not paid for the camera in full, should I actually be number 1? It doesnt matter what seems fair. We just need to get answers that BMD can stand by! All the opinions, and speculation is getting old. Lets let BMD answer.

We have no idea what BMD's production rate is, at full speed. So we need to let them tell us what to expect. There are many dealers out there (including) mine that will not carry money paid for the camera into the new year so, EF's, and MFT's need to ship fast. If your money is refunded you lose you spot in line.
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:47 pm

AJ.infinite wrote:
cschmeer wrote:Once production has ramped up, I think it would be fair to give the EF model priority, e.g. to manufacture and ship out EF models at 90% capacity and let MFT models "trickle out" at 10% production capacity. After all, there has been a much longer wait for the EF model and if they start producing a small number of MFT models for December, it will technically meet their release date. Once the EF pre-orders are met, they could then start MFT production at 100%. (Just my opinion).


I understand your opinion, but let's allow BMD to answer the questions first. EF before MFT might seem fair, but anyone that has paid for an item, should get the item. BMD said EF buyers could switch to MFT without penalty, and many have switched, so I can see how it could make either side upset, but the question is: when will we all get the camera's? EF or MFT

We have no idea what BMD's production rate is, at full speed. So we need to let them tell us what to expect. There are many dealers out there (including) mine that will not carry money paid for the camera into the new year so, EF's, and MFT's need to ship fast. If your money is refunded you lose you spot in line.


If it does indeed drag into the next year, why do we lose our spot in line? I understand some resellers have said they can't take the money from pre-orders into the new year, but can't the resellers just keep their pre-order list, refund the money and contact us if we want to keep the spot in line, then have us pay for it again?
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:50 pm

mhood wrote:
Christine Peterson wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:I will let you all know later this week or early next when we get some of these sensors to build cameras with and will know if we can start production full speed again.

We're still expecting to have an update early next week.


That is perhaps the most confusing part of the last update on at least two levels. Has BMD ever been at "full speed" production on the BMC and what is "full speed" production? I fully realize that BMD is not going to answer those questions but the questions remain and under the current circumstances are very legitimate.


+1
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm

cschmeer wrote:
AJ.infinite wrote:
cschmeer wrote:Once production has ramped up, I think it would be fair to give the EF model priority, e.g. to manufacture and ship out EF models at 90% capacity and let MFT models "trickle out" at 10% production capacity. After all, there has been a much longer wait for the EF model and if they start producing a small number of MFT models for December, it will technically meet their release date. Once the EF pre-orders are met, they could then start MFT production at 100%. (Just my opinion).


I understand your opinion, but let's allow BMD to answer the questions first. EF before MFT might seem fair, but anyone that has paid for an item, should get the item. BMD said EF buyers could switch to MFT without penalty, and many have switched, so I can see how it could make either side upset, but the question is: when will we all get the camera's? EF or MFT

We have no idea what BMD's production rate is, at full speed. So we need to let them tell us what to expect. There are many dealers out there (including) mine that will not carry money paid for the camera into the new year so, EF's, and MFT's need to ship fast. If your money is refunded you lose you spot in line.


If it does indeed drag into the next year, why do we lose our spot in line? I understand some resellers have said they can't take the money from pre-orders into the new year, but can't the resellers just keep their pre-order list, refund the money and contact us if we want to keep the spot in line, then have us pay for it again?


For some retailers its not a systems thing, the issue is that they do not want to retain the pre-orders due to the length of time. It wouldn't make sense to offer refunds and then take new payments in that case.
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 5:56 pm

cschmeer wrote:
AJ.infinite wrote:
cschmeer wrote:Once production has ramped up, I think it would be fair to give the EF model priority, e.g. to manufacture and ship out EF models at 90% capacity and let MFT models "trickle out" at 10% production capacity. After all, there has been a much longer wait for the EF model and if they start producing a small number of MFT models for December, it will technically meet their release date. Once the EF pre-orders are met, they could then start MFT production at 100%. (Just my opinion).


I understand your opinion, but let's allow BMD to answer the questions first. EF before MFT might seem fair, but anyone that has paid for an item, should get the item. BMD said EF buyers could switch to MFT without penalty, and many have switched, so I can see how it could make either side upset, but the question is: when will we all get the camera's? EF or MFT

We have no idea what BMD's production rate is, at full speed. So we need to let them tell us what to expect. There are many dealers out there (including) mine that will not carry money paid for the camera into the new year so, EF's, and MFT's need to ship fast. If your money is refunded you lose you spot in line.


If it does indeed drag into the next year, why do we lose our spot in line? I understand some resellers have said they can't take the money from pre-orders into the new year, but can't the resellers just keep their pre-order list, refund the money and contact us if we want to keep the spot in line, then have us pay for it again?


I don't know really how this will work, but I dont want a refund if I know my camera is coming sometime soon. These dealers will have to get down to serious business for their end of the year taxes, and your dealer will probably keep you on the list, my point is, that it can get tricky if we start worrying about whats really fair, and whats not... I think we are past that point somewhat, it's all about correcting the issues, and getting cameras shipped as fast as they can. BMD might have a stock pile of each version mostly assembled, just waiting for sensors... but again that's speculation, lets let them answer.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 6:47 pm

Guys, call the place you pre-ordered from if you're concerned about carrying over deposits through the new year. My reseller has no issues with it. I paid half and they said it's fine carrying it through the new year. Everyone's policies are different.
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 6:50 pm

Another camera has shipped to B&H.
Maybe the trickle is on again.
The order date was April 20th.
I guess for someone like me with a June and Aug order, I would have been around February.
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 6:53 pm

Should we be asking our Resellers when they placed their orders? Is it "first come first served" from the Distributor to the Resellers? Knowing my luck, my Reseller w8ed until May to place their order. :cry:
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 6:57 pm

I checked my confirmation email from CVP today and it had a date stamp of April 24th. However apparently I am still quite low down the list... in the 60's I believe.

So only 4 days after that b&h order... odd.
Last edited by Costa Louvieris on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 7:00 pm

Well, I'm number 8 but if they didn't place their order until June 3rd, you'll probably get yours before I get mine.
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galbach

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 7:40 pm

Thank you for the update... however I recd notice that my camera and handles shipped today from b&h! I ordered on 4/20. (I mustbe the person talked about above..)
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 8:04 pm

galbach wrote:Thank you for the update... however I recd notice that my camera and handles shipped today from b&h! I ordered on 4/20. (I mustbe the person talked about above..)


Congratulations!
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Jarrett Craig

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 10:54 pm

I see a lot of posts on here referring to "January" delivery? Did I miss something in Grant's post? Or is a January delivery mere speculation?
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostFri Nov 09, 2012 11:04 pm

Not speculation, but my questions to BMD

I asked if the EF cameras would be fulfilled by January if sensors are good from now on. That might be wishful, but BMD can answer accordingly. I also asked if the MFT would ship in December as advertised?


I asked because I know everyone wants to know when they should expect the camera to be delivered.

Some may think Dec/January is wishful thinking, but BMD can answer that.
If the sensors are good, why not?
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Taikonaut

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:07 am

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


Simply put BMD is a small company and to date only able to produce small number of equipement for a small clientelle. It does not have the capacity and certainly it appears does not have the managerial experience to manufacture something on a massive scale such as the BMc. Even companies like GoPro has the experience of masss produce and deliver on time.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:13 am

Taikonaut wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


Simply put BMD is a small company and to date only able to produce small number of equipement for a small clientelle. It does not have the capacity and certainly it appears does not have the managerial experience to manufacture something on a massive scale such as the BMc. Even companies like GoPro has the experience of masss produce and deliver on time.


Sure is better than spewing out rubbish post after post after post after post.....for goodness sake can you give it a break as it is starting to look like you are actually trying to undermine rather than simply make comment.
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Taikonaut

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:24 am

Costa wrote:I checked my confirmation email from CVP today and it had a date stamp of April 24th. However apparently I am still quite low down the list... in the 60's I believe.

So only 4 days after that b&h order... odd.


Are you sure that is correct?
I cancell my order with Jigsaw that I placed on the April 19th and placed my order with CVP in early May, they confirm I was number 62. Given that some have switched or cancelled since and you had placed your order in April 24th you cant be in the 60s.
However I'm not surprise if CVP gave you innacurate information or with held some details from you. We've seen how they moved Andrew Ried up to 1st and others given the wrong place.
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Taikonaut

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:32 am

Andrew Deme wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


Simply put BMD is a small company and to date only able to produce small number of equipement for a small clientelle. It does not have the capacity and certainly it appears does not have the managerial experience to manufacture something on a massive scale such as the BMc. Even companies like GoPro has the experience of masss produce and deliver on time.


Sure is better than spewing out rubbish post after post after post after post.....for goodness sake can you give it a break as it is starting to look like you are actually trying to undermine rather than simply make comment.


Undermine? Seriously BMD is doing a pretty good job at that?

Come one! When we had all those ***** attempt at criticism and BMD apologists making excuses the past few months did Grant bothers to reply giving reasons about the delay? No.
it is hardly a surprise straight talking is needed. Grant and co made 4 replies as soon as I started posting on here. Rubbish? I don't think so but hey I don't expect to be thanked for my effort.
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David

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:36 am

Taikonaut wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


Simply put BMD is a small company and to date only able to produce small number of equipement for a small clientelle. It does not have the capacity and certainly it appears does not have the managerial experience to manufacture something on a massive scale such as the BMc. Even companies like GoPro has the experience of masss produce and deliver on time.


"Simply put" does not mean "correctly put". BMD has produced the camera effectively and is geared up for mass production. The research and development is done, they don't need capital and they don't need infrastructure. They might be smaller than other companies but they are extremely well financed. The hold up is not due to a lack of managerial experience, it's a third party issue with a piece of the camera of which the entire product is centered around and cannot just be switched out with another one. It's a manufacturing freak event which clearly they are working to overcome.

And I'm not an apologist for BMD. Waiting sucks. But so does the same moaning comment all day every day. If its such an amateur hour why are people sticking around? Go make your masterpiece with that GoPro.

Get the black one. Looks nice. ;)
David Daniel
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Taikonaut

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:43 am

David wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Damn narrow definition of mass production there. Also among the reasons theres a shortage of engineers in the the UK at least is the graduates keep being poached for their buisness skills.

Mere scale of prodiction is a poor indicator of good management. One of your list Sony has been losing incredible amounts of money for the last 4 years, not the best sign of good management is it?

Their communication skills need a lot of work, management a lot harder to make that call.


Simply put BMD is a small company and to date only able to produce small number of equipement for a small clientelle. It does not have the capacity and certainly it appears does not have the managerial experience to manufacture something on a massive scale such as the BMc. Even companies like GoPro has the experience of masss produce and deliver on time.


"Simply put" does not mean "correctly put". BMD has produced the camera effectively and is geared up for mass production. The research and development is done, they don't need capital and they don't need infrastructure. They might be smaller than other companies but they are extremely well financed. The hold up is not due to a lack of managerial experience, it's a third party issue with a piece of the camera of which the entire product is centered around and cannot just be switched out with another one. It's a manufacturing freak event which clearly they are working to overcome.

And I'm not an apologist for BMD. Waiting sucks. But so does the same moaning comment all day every day. If its such an amateur hour why are people sticking around? Go make your masterpiece with that GoPro.

Get the black one. Looks nice. ;)


Problem is BMD had almost successfuly designed but had not successfully produced for mass distribution. Being well financed means nothing if management is not fit for purpose.
The management failed to oversee alleged problem with the sensor. Do you think they would leave the sensor testing to companies again after this? An experience camera manufacturer would have their own people based at the sensor making company well in advance making sure everything is fine.
TBH the problem isnt just the sensor issue. They have problem getting other things delivered as we speak. If it is not down to the size of the company and small facilities then is that also because of poor management? Likely bits of both here.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 6:55 am

I think it is misguided to think that out of all the people on these forums that BMD pay special attention to one particular person posting....all the while in the background they have been hard at work trying to solve the issues.

I am not suggesting you shouldn't comment but can you please lift the needle and change the track because it is dragging on and on.....
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Darren Scott

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 12:57 pm

I understand the frustrations on all sides and feel for all parties involved (myself included :D ). However what I don't get is this, if this is a scientific company that has never made sensors in the way BM makes them, I don't understand why from the onset BM didn't have their engineers/people on hand to monitor and or train the people involved with making their sensors to the point that they were competent enough to manufacture them on their own. After which BM could pull their engineers knowing full well that the process was handled to their specs. I mean even fast food companies do this. (of course BM would still conduct their own checks after receiving the sensors).

Anyhoo...hope we have all learned from this experience.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 1:03 pm

Quote......

"In hindsight things are obvious that were not obvious from the outset; one is able to evaluate past choices more clearly than at the time of the choice."

There is a reason this is a popular saying.......
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Darren Scott

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 1:39 pm

True. As i said...hope we all learned from this.
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostSat Nov 10, 2012 1:55 pm

All this back, and forth discussing amongst ourselves does nothing for us. If you have a question for BMD, can you please use this thread to ask it. I just want answers from actual BMD reps, not wild hunches on what BMD's abilities might be. I've played that game, and I still do not have my camera.

Soon this thread will have 138 pages like the last shipping thread, and no questions will have been answered, because we are acting like we already know the answers to everything that is blackmagic design, and arguing over pure speculation. Lets get answers.
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