Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 3:06 am

Taikonaut wrote:If they cant glue it themselves because of lack of resources maybe they should not have gotten involved in making cameras in the first place. I know it is blunt but that is not my problem.


Well, maybe I just feel there are reasons for everything and maybe I'm being too understanding, maybe not... but it's easier and cheaper to find someone who already has a sensor/process than to start doing it yourself. Maybe that's how they can keep the price down.

Whether or not they should have done it this way or have even "gotten involved in making cameras in the first place" is a matter of opinion. I don't know enough about camera and sensor manufacturing to say.

You could always just cancel your order and go elsewhere. A RED ONE is not much more money. Again, the situation sucks, but there's nothing stopping us from just going with another camera manufacturer if it's too much of a headache.

I'm not saying BMD can do whatever they want and not expect us to get frustrated, but we do have other choices and we can choose to not be a BMD customer if we want.
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Ryan Best

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 3:20 am

Taikonaut wrote:
Ryan Best wrote:As important as it was for this update to be made, it is just as vital that we have some information regarding the BMCC if the sensor issue no longer becomes an issue.


What do you think would be the issue surrounding the delay of the BMC camera handle? They didnt bother shipping that out so what chance have they got for the camera itself?
I fear the only reason for this is BMD is biting off more than they could chew. It is too small a company. Not only do they have no previous experience in building a camera prior to the BMC they have no experience in mass production. It is not hard to imagine why companies gets their stuff made in China these days.



I appreciate that you, like myself are very frustrated about the delays surrounding the BMCC, but I will not begin to speculate on what may or may not be happening behind the scenes. POINTLESS.

What I will say is that Grant has outlined the issue, whether true or false, whatever way you view it - there are some of us that wish to believe that this is the story and that BMD want us all to have this great product.
Now Taking into consideration all the delays and unfortunately the poor communication shown on this matter - I am inclined to believe that if the sensor issue had not arisen, we would all have - or be much closer to owning a BMCC.

I believe Grant has honestly tried to give us the best update he could at this moment in time - BUT there are some details regarding pre-orders being fulfilled (as explained in my previous post) that could have been included. I believe this would have had a positive impact on the relations not only between BMD and their customers, but also between customers and their respective resellers.
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rawCAM35

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 3:32 am

[quote="Grant Petty" Now the amazing part is that the first batch of sensors we got that we used for developing the camera and that were fine when we started production were manufactured by a completely different company to the second and subsequent batches of sensors. I could not believe this news when I heard it today as it explains a lot. [/quote]

Hi Mr. Petty, thanks for the update, that much detailed information usually ( considered confidential ), but thank you again.

This problem could have been caught after noticing the first bad sensor, and right away questioning the manufacturer if there is any changes don differently from the first batch of sensors, because the first batch was OK, so what has changed.

20 years ago I was called to solve a problem of an over saturated chroma on a oxide beta tapes recorded on a Sony SP deck, after checking the Quantel output, replacing the deck, recording other tapes from another tape box in the video bay, could not figure it out, until I recorded a tape from unopened box on the original deck, chroma was perfect, then I took one tape from the operator with the problem and did a recording, sure enough the chroma is very saturated, so only the tapes that this operator is handling have over saturated chroma ???

I flipped the two tapes upside down and found out that the notches on the oxide tape were removed to make it act like an SP tape, so the tape sensors are telling the recorder that this is an SP tape ( metal ) and to trigger the wider bandwidth recording circuits, but the oxide tape can't handle the levels that intended for the SP tape.
The operator trying to save money by tricking the Beta recorder and modified few boxes of oxide tape, and does not know that metal tape ( Beta SP ) uses a wider bandwidth recording system which ended up over saturating the oxide tape.

I could have solved the chroma problem in a few minutes if I paid attention to one change in the operation of this video bay, the chroma problem came about the day after this operator started to work in this bay, and by asking him if he did anything different, so now I pay more attention to what has changed or what is different before any troubleshooting.

Please keep at it, many people are waiting for this camera, and I hope that BMD developers and engineers are not bothered by some of the negativity on the web.

The reason that many are upset is because everyone is exited about this camera and they thought that it will be in their hands by this past summer, support gear was bout and projects were planed, I look at it as a complement to BMD.

BTW I am still waiting for my camera too.

Best to you and the whole BMD team
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Art Roberts

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 3:49 am

Message to Mr Perry

Dear Sir, in all sincerity, you have let your customers down. This is because they have noticed a trend in this kind of behavior regarding some of your previously released products; the BMCC is no different. Look, there is no doubt you always have a good idea about a product, and your hunch has worked well for you, but this is not the way to run a successful manufcturing company - despite its size. Blackmagic will be better off if they hire a competent CEO to look into these shortcomings, of course you will still remain as the brain of the company with whatever title you so desire. As a tip I will leave you with this advice - that definitive technicalities and modalities are worked out - well ahead of time, with all third parties involved held to their bonds, even before product announcements, bearing in mind the company's reputation. Yes, other companies like Red also did it, but thats no excuse to keep your customers in suspense like this. You mean, even after detecting sensor errors in the second batch, you still trusted and allowed them time to detect what the actual issue was. In the words of Donald Trump, "YOU ARE FIRED".
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 4:00 am

Art Roberts wrote:Message to Mr Perry

Dear Sir, in all sincerity, you have let your customers down. This is because they have noticed a trend in this kind of behavior regarding some of your previously released products; the BMCC is no different. Look, there is no doubt you always have a good idea about a product, and your hunch has worked well for you, but this is not the way to run a successful manufcturing company - despite its size. Blackmagic will be better off if they hire a competent CEO to look into these shortcomings, of course you will still remain as the brain of the company with whatever title you so desire. As a tip I will leave you with this advice - that definitive technicalities and modalities are worked out - well ahead of time, with all third parties involved held to their bonds, even before product announcements, bearing in mind the company's reputation. Yes, other companies like Red also did it, but thats no excuse to keep your customers in suspense like this. You mean, even after detecting sensor errors in the second batch, you still trusted and allowed them time to detect what the actual issue was. In the words of Donald Trump, "YOU ARE FIRED".


Does that mean we need to sack the CEO of Sony, Nikon, Canon, Microsoft, IBM....could keep going forever here....as those companies have launched products that either were faulty and succeeded or faulty and failed.
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Justin Jones

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 4:48 am

What would be bloody brilliant is for Black Magic to black list the shipping or sale of their camera to all of the people bitching on the forum. It would seriously cut down on the back log of undelivered cameras.

I am no claim to fame camera designer, but something as complex as the Cinema Camera wouldn't be a cinch to throw together. A vacuum sealed imaging chip that is able to produce a fantastic quality image at an incredible price point requires mounds of collaboration from a lot of different business professionals : IE suppliers, fabricators, engineers etc....

I am sure you can't buy imaging chips from "Joes House O' Imaging Chips".
or glue from "Sams Emporium of Imaging Glues". So stop insinuating that this somehow is Black Magic's fault for not having oversight of the imaging chips. When you buy a car do you go down to the factory and observe it being assembled? What about when you order a computer from Dell? So maybe your not taking charge and overseeing things in your own life.

Does the CEO of GMC know how to build a car from the ground up? Probably not. In fact He probably doesn't even have a clue how to change the oil. I am not calling Grant Petty a dunce, by any means, but I highly doubt he is a camera engineer. Even if he was, troubleshooting an issue on a product that isn't even publicly available has to be a pain. You would have no resources to draw from; just a problem and a shot in the dark in regards to the cause.

Businesses are never quick to admit when they are wrong or have made a mistake. If (bitter, angry, entitled forum member) actually read Grants post you would have picked up that the supplier has never had to test the imaging chips they fabricated for Black Magic in the specific way that Black Magic tests imaging chips so even the supplier was unaware of the issue.

Don't forget, this has never been done before! Camera's of this quality and price point have not been made before. Its not like ordering fast food at McDonalds; you don't get it your way in 2 minutes. You get it when black magic gets it worked out. If building the Cinema Camera was so simple, businesses would have been selling cameras like this for years. People can be so ludicrous and judgmental about things they know nothing about. How can you seriously judge an entire business in an area you haven't the slightest experience or capacity to even comprehend?!

Don't condemn Black Magic for setting a date and missing it. They could simply provide no release date for any of their products, like other color based camera fabricators do and say "hey, the cameras done when its done." Given the experience on the forums the last few months, I would count on it. If thats how Black Magic ran the world would still be in the same place it is today: few people have their cameras and the problem you wouldnt know about would be getting solved, You just wouldn't know your going to get one.
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:02 am

Watermoore wrote: NONSENSE



You, and your extra long paragraph is nonsense. You don't know anything about Grant Petty or BMD, your speculating just like the rest of us. "Black list" a buyer is foolishness.

bottom line: If you buy something, you expect to get what paid for. BMD can't sell the camera to themselves. You have the right to handle your time waiting for the camera how ever you want to, but don't put on your porcelain boots, and act like "we" are out of line for asking BMD to follow through with what they said they would do.
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dennysb

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:24 am

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:Why cant BMD glue the glass onto the sensor themselves?


They'd have to get into sensor manufacturing and create a whole new process, buy new machines, possibly a new clean room, etc. That would cause the price of the camera to increase significantly. Knowing that 2 different companies were contaminating the glass upon installing the glass on the sensor, it doesn't seem like it's an easy process. I wish it were. We could just hire a bunch of kids, give them some Elmer's Glue, and be done with it.

Seriously though, I'm sure the process is insane and would require BMD to open up a whole new room/facility to do so, and again, this would cause the camera price to go up.


I will second Paul on his statement :) You don't just one day decide OK I am going to bond glass to the sensor - This is a massive infrastructure overtaking. Most companies that design/develop their products do not manufacture, they outsource that effort to China, Taiwan or say India. So I will speculate BMD does not have the manufacture facilities of their own. The only option here is to get a source that get the job done correctly.
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dennysb

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:28 am

dennysb wrote:
PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:Why cant BMD glue the glass onto the sensor themselves?


They'd have to get into sensor manufacturing and create a whole new process, buy new machines, possibly a new clean room, etc. That would cause the price of the camera to increase significantly. Knowing that 2 different companies were contaminating the glass upon installing the glass on the sensor, it doesn't seem like it's an easy process. I wish it were. We could just hire a bunch of kids, give them some Elmer's Glue, and be done with it.

Seriously though, I'm sure the process is insane and would require BMD to open up a whole new room/facility to do so, and again, this would cause the camera price to go up.


I will second Paul on his statement :) You don't just one day decide OK I am going to bond glass to the sensor - This is a massive infrastructure overtaking. Most companies that design/develop their products do not manufacture, they outsource that effort to China, Taiwan or say India. So I will speculate BMD does not have the manufacture facilities of their own. The only option here is to get a source that get the job done correctly.


One more thing before I get jump :) Yes BMD is assembling the cameras in-house (It seems) but bond of glass to sensor or building the PCBs is the manufacturing element I am referring to ;)
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jasonxinzhou

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:30 am

AJ.infinite wrote:anyone want to buy a brand new viewfactor cage with handle? I also have a brand new Sandisk 480gb ssd

in half price, pls
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dennysb

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:35 am

Taikonaut wrote:
PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Taikonaut wrote:Why cant BMD glue the glass onto the sensor themselves?


They'd have to get into sensor manufacturing and create a whole new process, buy new machines, possibly a new clean room, etc. That would cause the price of the camera to increase significantly. Knowing that 2 different companies were contaminating the glass upon installing the glass on the sensor, it doesn't seem like it's an easy process. I wish it were. We could just hire a bunch of kids, give them some Elmer's Glue, and be done with it.

Seriously though, I'm sure the process is insane and would require BMD to open up a whole new room/facility to do so, and again, this would cause the camera price to go up.


Seriously you are sounding like a BMD apologist.
If they cant glue it themselves because of lack of resources maybe they should not have gotten involved in making cameras in the first place. I know it is blunt but that is not my problem.


Mr. Taikonaut I would respectfully say I am not sure you understand manufacturing processes and industry. Apple does not manufacture the iPhone or iPad, Amazon does not manufacture the kindle. It is actually rare in today's world for design companies to keep manufacturing in-house - is just not practical. Sure you have the giants Sony and Mitsubishi - but for the most part - manufacture is outsource.

And By the way, I am not a BMD apologist, I am actually pretty mad I am waiting, but that does not negate facts of the industry :)
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:41 am

Joel Crane wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote: Meanwhile, the prospect of my dining on one of Marc Hood's shoes if "a bunch of us" don't receive our BMCCs by Jan. 1, 2013 continues to bear down on me ... :lol:


Got a call this morning from my supplier that I'll be receiving mine via express delivery tomorrow morning. Them shoes looking mighty tasty!


Congrats on your getting your camera soon. I'm jealous! :-)

Just to be clear clear: I don't have to eat one of Marc's Crocs if "a bunch of us" receive cameras before New Years 2013. I optimistically bet/predicted/wished "a bunch of us" would get our cams before the end of 2012. So, yes, I'm hoping for a miracle! :lol:
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dennysb

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 5:56 am

Let's see

1) We want to have BMD's sales team to start crazy glueing glass to sensors

2) We want to black list people that are frustrated and expressing it in the forum

3) We want to fired the CEO

This reminds me a part on Star Trek (2009) where Simon Peg (Scotty) watches Chris Pine (T Kirk) and Zachary Quinto (Spock) having a heated discussion and says "This place is fun!"

It's getting a little crazy, I must say... :roll:
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Nick Bedford

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 6:07 am

Damn I love that movie.
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Justin Jones

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 6:23 am

AJ.infinite wrote:
Watermoore wrote: NONSENSE



You, and your extra long paragraph is nonsense. You don't know anything about Grant Petty or BMD, your speculating just like the rest of us. "Black list" a buyer is foolishness.

bottom line: If you buy something, you expect to get what paid for. BMD can't sell the camera to themselves. You have the right to handle your time waiting for the camera how ever you want to, but don't put on your porcelain boots, and act like "we" are out of line for asking BMD to follow through with what they said they would do.

My insinuation about the black list was purely tongue in cheek. You may call my paragraph nonsense shenanigans etc... I could frankly care less about your opinion on my input. You are absolutely 100% correct about my post being pure speculation. The difference between my opinion and yours changes nothing about the situation. Yours is based on your anger about things not going the way you planned. Mine is based on experience working in large systems where people try the best to do the job they have yet problems arise. Some small ,some large. I am merely speculating on the reality that we don't have our cameras yet. Your speculation is based on your expectation not being met. But in the end your right nothing changes does it? The camera comes when it comes. As far as I am concerned the camera will come and that is what black magic said they would do.
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Abobakr M. Alshiblie

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 6:41 am

Thanks Grant for the update!! I really hope everything will go well
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Lorenzo Straight

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 6:51 am

A relative, spot on!

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Lorenzo Straight wrote:I'll tell you why the supplier switched bonding companies; The new bonding company was cheaper than the original!


Or: Owned by a relative of the sensor manufacturer?

Whatever!

Meanwhile, the prospect of my dining on one of Marc Hood's shoes if "a bunch of us" don't receive our BMCCs by Jan. 1, 2013 continues to bear down on me ... :lol:
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Margus Voll

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 7:07 am

Thank you Grant!

I hope one day BM can buy sensor maker to have this process in-house.
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Espen Munthe

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 7:12 am

Thank you for an extraordinary update on manufacturing, it is above and beyond ordinary openness standards.

Your post speaks volumes about your problem solving corporate culture. Having unexpected issues during the set up of manufacuring is normal and unavoidable. Your candid account of diagnosing and correcting this complex and perplexing supplier issue (they usually are) is exemplary.

As per my previous post I wish to offer my best wishes to the BMD manufacturing team.

For me, even though waiting is troublesome, there is no way I will be going for a traditional digital video product from the established corporate ecosystems. I can only thank BMD for giving me an actual option free from layers upon layers of industry baggage.

So, fingers crossed - heh heh.

Sincerely
Espen Munthe
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Random

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 8:04 am

Yeah.. It's $3000.. Apparently, There is a price cap on mercy....obviously... It's a small company, but it's a 2k 12 bit raw cinema camera for $3000..built by a company no bigger than a garage, and s--- happens. I'd be pissed if the CEO didn't say a word at all. If you want to be impatient stomping their feet like a 5 year old at Toys R Us when all you'll probably do is shoot "test" videos of your cats and post them on youtube, request a refund, and apply it to a rental since you've obviously scheduled your movie around a camera. This is not the first time a company has had issues. So chill out. You'll feel like a bunch of spoiled little when you get your cameras anyway. The whole concept of this thing was to give us the features of an actual cinema camera we could afford. They WE'RE beginning production, and they didn't want to send us cameras with half-ass sensors in them... Some people just wanna bitch though.. I'll wait until they get it right. I'm sure once the ball gets rolling, it will only be a matter of time. Another alternative to hateful bitching in a forum, would be the $4000 Red One MX's currently on sale. (Those had issues when they first came out too by the way..). They've shot a couple of blockbusters... Go bitch at Jim Jannard on that forum, and see if he's as friendly as Grant. In bold print at the bottom it actually says they reserve the right "not" to sell you a camera if you wanna be an . - and rightly so. Does anyone else make a cinema camera for $3000 with Davinci Resolve in the box? Don't you think it's stressful enough, the guy wants to get these out the door so he doesn't have to hear your hateful, impatient, unmerciful, whiny comments? You don't have to follow through with it. Get a refund and find Jesus. Woo saaaaa.

Reply to your hearts content, haters. This is my first and last post here so i really don't give a damn how much time you waste being yourselves. (Hence, why i probably won't read your comments:).

Fanboy, out!

Btw. Thanks for taking the time to brief us all CEO of the company...IN DETAIL... nobody else would do that.
Last edited by Christine Peterson on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 8:49 am

Random wrote:Btw. Thanks for taking the time to brief us all CEO of the company...IN DETAIL... nobody else would do that.


Those other companies you speak of wouldn't CONTINUALLY miss product release deadlines. Are you even aware on how late ALL of BMD products are?
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 8:54 am

Some of the responses posted on here are hilarious.
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 8:56 am

I like everything Random and Watermoore said.

Also, thanks for the update, Grant. I sincerely appreciate all the trouble BMD is going through to deliver this camera. Cheers!
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 8:57 am

Costa wrote:
Random wrote:Btw. Thanks for taking the time to brief us all CEO of the company...IN DETAIL... nobody else would do that.


Those other companies you speak of wouldn't CONTINUALLY miss product release deadlines. Are you even aware on how late ALL of BMD products are?


Can you please tell us all because we really need to know !
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:16 am

Andrew Deme wrote:
Costa wrote:
Random wrote:Btw. Thanks for taking the time to brief us all CEO of the company...IN DETAIL... nobody else would do that.


Those other companies you speak of wouldn't CONTINUALLY miss product release deadlines. Are you even aware on how late ALL of BMD products are?


Can you please tell us all because we really need to know !


Well I for one am still waiting on the Hyperdeck Studio Pro, which was supposed to be released in July of this year. At the end of each month BMD says it will be released at the end of the following month, both to me and to retailers... it has now been pushed back to the end of this month, but we are all guessing the next update (which I have to ring them for) will be the end of December... that is just ONE other delay. Also, someone here mentioned the videohub had an 18 month delay... So there you are.
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David form BMCUSER

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:26 am

Thanks Grant.
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:33 am

Costa wrote:Well I for one am still waiting on the Hyperdeck Studio Pro, which was supposed to be released in July of this year. At the end of each month BMD says it will be released at the end of the following month, both to me and to retailers... it has now been pushed back to the end of this month, but we are all guessing the next update (which I have to ring them for) will be the end of December... that is just ONE other delay. Also, someone here mentioned the videohub had an 18 month delay... So there you are.


The surely you must be aware of other companies that have had failed product launches :-

1. Microsoft Vista (2007) - $500M spent on marketing....Ooops !

2. Microsoft Zune (2006) - Oooops !

3. Coca Cola C2 (2004) - $50M advertising campaign....Oooops !

4. Coca Cola New Coke (1980) - ....Oooops !

Could play this game all day as some of the best and brightest from most if not all of the worlds best companies have had some of the grandest failures.....and you know what, it never scared customers or investors one little bit.

Compare this to Kodak who did little if anything grand and let the film business control the development of new products and then gradually faded into obscurity.

You see shareholders aren't as bothered by delayed product launches as they are by companies that fail by doing nothing.
Last edited by Andrew Deme on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Darren Joy

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:36 am

Well...that escalated fast.

Hold on, I'm just getting some popcorn...
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:37 am

Andrew Deme wrote:
Costa wrote:Well I for one am still waiting on the Hyperdeck Studio Pro, which was supposed to be released in July of this year. At the end of each month BMD says it will be released at the end of the following month, both to me and to retailers... it has now been pushed back to the end of this month, but we are all guessing the next update (which I have to ring them for) will be the end of December... that is just ONE other delay. Also, someone here mentioned the videohub had an 18 month delay... So there you are.


The surely you must be aware of other companies that have had failed product launches :-

1. Microsoft Vista (2007) - $500M spent on marketing....Ooops !

2. Microsoft Zune (2006) - Oooops !

3. Coca Cola C2 (2004) - $50M advertising campaign....Oooops !

4. Coca Cola New Coke (1980) - ....Oooops !

Could play this game all day as some of the best and brightest from most if not all of the worlds best companies have had some of the grandest failures.....and you know what, it never scared customers or investors one little bit.

Compare this to Kodak who did little if anything grand and let the film business control the development of new products and then gradually faded into obscurity.

You see shareholders aren't as bothered by delayed product launches as they are by companies that fail by doing nothing.


Pretty sure those products, you know, actually LAUNCHED. What are you going on about man...
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:40 am

Costa wrote:Pretty sure those products, you know, actually LAUNCHED. What are you going on about man...


You start to sound like a broken record... didn't you want to buy a RED or something?

I for one agree completely with Random and Watermoore.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:41 am

Soeren Mueller wrote:
Costa wrote:Pretty sure those products, you know, actually LAUNCHED. What are you going on about man...


You start to sound like a broken record... didn't you want to buy a RED or something?

I for one agree completely with Random and Watermoore.


Good for you I accept your point of view. See how that works?
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:52 am

Costa wrote:Good for you I accept your point of view. See how that works?


Hehe yeah.. but then I don't bitch about my point of view hourly.. so.. well.. :twisted:
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 9:54 am

Soeren Mueller wrote:
Costa wrote:Good for you I accept your point of view. See how that works?


Hehe yeah.. but then I don't bitch about my point of view hourly.. so.. well.. :twisted:


No of course not, you're doing it minutely... well according to the time stamp of your last bitchy post;)
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:04 am

Costa wrote:
Soeren Mueller wrote:
Costa wrote:Good for you I accept your point of view. See how that works?


Hehe yeah.. but then I don't bitch about my point of view hourly.. so.. well.. :twisted:


No of course not, you're doing it minutely... well according to the time stamp of your last bitchy post;)


See.. this is sort of infectious.. you turned me to the dark side.. :o
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:06 am

Soeren Mueller wrote:
See.. this is sort of infectious.. you turned me to the dark side.. :o


I have that effect on people:)
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:19 am

I think the issue is not that other companies don't have delays, its that they avoid giving dates out as early as BM do, hell they often don't even suggest a product exists until they are sure. They have the delays we just dont hear about them.

BM need to learn to restrain their exicement over new products until they have got a lot further down the getting it to market process. Their attempts at communication on this when they have attempted it have been really variable, about 2 have been great, the rest just muddied the waters further.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:25 am

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:I think the issue is not that other companies don't have delays, its that they avoid giving dates out as early as BM do, hell they often don't even suggest a product exists until they are sure. They have the delays we just dont hear about them.

BM need to learn to restrain their exicement over new products until they have got a lot further down the getting it to market process. Their attempts at communication on this when they have attempted it have been really variable, about 2 have been great, the rest just muddied the waters further.


I agree completely. A friend and I have been doing some conspiracy theorising and he thinks BMD are using the deposits from the retailers as a source of revenue to actually buy and build the device components.... it's actually a good theory:)
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:35 am

Costa wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:I think the issue is not that other companies don't have delays, its that they avoid giving dates out as early as BM do, hell they often don't even suggest a product exists until they are sure. They have the delays we just dont hear about them.

BM need to learn to restrain their exicement over new products until they have got a lot further down the getting it to market process. Their attempts at communication on this when they have attempted it have been really variable, about 2 have been great, the rest just muddied the waters further.


I agree completely. A friend and I have been doing some conspiracy theorising and he thinks BMD are using the deposits from the retailers as a source of revenue to actually buy and build the device components.... it's actually a good theory:)


You must be a joy to hang around....
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:38 am

Andrew Deme wrote:
Costa wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:I think the issue is not that other companies don't have delays, its that they avoid giving dates out as early as BM do, hell they often don't even suggest a product exists until they are sure. They have the delays we just dont hear about them.

BM need to learn to restrain their exicement over new products until they have got a lot further down the getting it to market process. Their attempts at communication on this when they have attempted it have been really variable, about 2 have been great, the rest just muddied the waters further.


I agree completely. A friend and I have been doing some conspiracy theorising and he thinks BMD are using the deposits from the retailers as a source of revenue to actually buy and build the device components.... it's actually a good theory:)


You must be a joy to hang around....


I'm not. I know it shocks me too!
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:46 am

Costa wrote:
I'm not. I know it shocks me too!


I have seen many of your posts and you have an excellent sense of humor, but have to say you do seem to consistently come out with more than your fair share of conspiracy theories.

If you had to compliment BMD on just one thing, without an ounce of criticism and in all seriousness...what would it be ?
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:47 am

Taikonaut wrote: Not only do they have no previous experience in building a camera prior to the BMC they have no experience in mass production. It is not hard to imagine why companies gets their stuff made in China these days.


Whilst they don't have experience building a camera, they're not really a small company and they certainly DO have mass manufacturing experience. They've sold many thousands of units in their other lines and the very reason they are so successful is because they manufacture themselves. They actually make the boards themselves, the machines the components themselves. They don't outsource Sure bash them for being late with the camera if you want, but they do know how to manufacture.

You also don't know in which countries they manufacture. They have several sites in several countries.

Costa wrote:I agree completely. A friend and I have been doing some conspiracy theorising and he thinks BMD are using the deposits from the retailers as a source of revenue to actually buy and build the device components.... it's actually a good theory:)


As has been mentioned several times on this forum, as you would know being a regular contributor to these boards, deposits are with DEALERS not with BMD themselves. BMD don't get anything from you as a customer until they ship you a camera. So let's stop perpetuating this myth.

jb
John Brawley
Cinematographer
London UK
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nivou

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:47 am

Great update Mr. Grant Petty I truly appreciate that; however I could not understand why you didn’t stick with the first assembly or glass supplier who delivered the first batch of sensors which was good. It was about cost cutting? I hope everything work out well so me and many other people around the world can get the BMCC in our hands before 2013. Also I hope that Greece is not at the bottom of the shipping list.

Regards,

Nikos
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:48 am

Costa wrote: Are you even aware on how late ALL of BMD products are?


Clearly they aren't late on ALL of them are they Costa ?

jb
John Brawley
Cinematographer
London UK
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:48 am

Costa wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:I think the issue is not that other companies don't have delays, its that they avoid giving dates out as early as BM do, hell they often don't even suggest a product exists until they are sure. They have the delays we just dont hear about them.

BM need to learn to restrain their exicement over new products until they have got a lot further down the getting it to market process. Their attempts at communication on this when they have attempted it have been really variable, about 2 have been great, the rest just muddied the waters further.


I agree completely. A friend and I have been doing some conspiracy theorising and he thinks BMD are using the deposits from the retailers as a source of revenue to actually buy and build the device components.... it's actually a good theory:)


Ahh comspiciy theories usually good fun, usually even less beleivable than the shakey official line. Whats your favoured tin-foil hat design?

Personally for deelign with tech companies I prefer the safty of beaten out roofing lead wrapped in tin foil, as clearly they are to clever for mere tin foil to be effective :P
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:49 am

nivou wrote:Great update Mr. Grant Petty I truly appreciate that; however I could not understand why you didn’t stick with the first assembly or glass supplier who delivered the first batch of sensors which was good. It was about cost cutting? I hope everything work out well so me and many other people around the world can get the BMCC in our hands before 2013. Also I hope that Greece is not at the bottom of the shipping list.

Regards,

Nikos



I think you'll find the glass vendor was changed without BMD's knowledge.

jb
John Brawley
Cinematographer
London UK
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Marcel Beck

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:49 am

Hello Grant!

First off thanks for the lengthy update, really appreciate it.

I am glad you guys pushed to investigate, I hope production resumes as soon as possible, cant wait for my BMCC to land in my hands!

And guys, cut BMD some slack, this useless ramble ramble about who's right, what they SHOULD have done etc.. doesn't matter, its in the past. Now we know the issues and BMD are pushing to solve them. Do what all the other cinematographers out there are doing, continue your work, kill your time with something useful other than bashing posts at BMD, that won't increase BMCC production...

Cheers
Marcel Beck
Cinematographer & Producer
follow me: @mxbstudios
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:51 am

nivou wrote:Great update Mr. Grant Petty I truly appreciate that; however I could not understand why you didn’t stick with the first assembly or glass supplier who delivered the first batch of sensors which was good. It was about cost cutting? I hope everything work out well so me and many other people around the world can get the BMCC in our hands before 2013. Also I hope that Greece is not at the bottom of the shipping list.

Regards,

Nikos



Grant mentioned in the post , the sensor maker switched the company bonding the glass to the sensor without informing BMD. The sensor maker faild to pick up errors from the change as their tests were set up for black and white not colour sensors, so believed that the switch was fine.

This is the official line beleive what you want.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:52 am

Andrew Deme wrote:
Costa wrote:
I'm not. I know it shocks me too!


I have seen many of your posts and you have an excellent sense of humor, but have to say you do seem to consistently come out with more than your fair share of conspiracy theories.

If you had to compliment BMD on just one thing, without an ounce of criticism and in all seriousness...what would it be ?


Good question. I would say price.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 10:54 am

John Brawley wrote:
Costa wrote: Are you even aware on how late ALL of BMD products are?


Clearly they aren't late on ALL of them are they Costa ?

jb


Ok not ALL, only ALL the one's I want:)
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Tom Sefton

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostThu Nov 08, 2012 11:08 am

Andrew Deme wrote:
Costa wrote:
I'm not. I know it shocks me too!


I have seen many of your posts and you have an excellent sense of humor, but have to say you do seem to consistently come out with more than your fair share of conspiracy theories.

If you had to compliment BMD on just one thing, without an ounce of criticism and in all seriousness...what would it be ?


Keeping this damn message board up would be one compliment to pay them.
Tom Sefton
Owner
Pollen Studio
www.pollenstudio.co.uk
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