BMPCC ProRes LT Dropped Frames

I'll pitch in here too as I'm experiencing and have been, dropped frames when recording in any prores flavour, on both of my pocket cams and with all of my extreme pro 64gb cards.

They start dropping frames roughly 25-30mins into recording on both HQ and 422, with LT I get dropped frames roughly 20mins in. I just consider it a trade off as the price vs. performance of these cameras are unreal, but it is a very real issue and probably should be talked about more.

Thank you for chiming in, Terry! It has been discussed a lot on some unofficial Blackmagic-themed groups I'm a member of, but we need to make sure that Blackmagic itself is aware of how widespread the problem is.

Just curious, how many frames are dropping per second approximately?

I bought a 128 GB Sandisk Extreme 45 MB/s card and it happily records Prores LT without dropping frames. 72 minutes and still going strong so I stopped the recording. Going to try the other bitrates as well...

EDIT: 422 lasted more than 62 minutes without a drop before I stopped recording. Glad I bought this card, I've got a 1 hour concert to record tomorrow...

No problem on the 1.9.3, even on 45MB 64GB Extreme Sandisk.
I have notticed ALOT of macroblocking on LT and Proxy, so the only usables ones are the Prores422 and ProresHQ (former Prores422)

I will make a video more complete (with alot of info) but for now this make it clear.

I'm using HQ again until I hear that this is fixed.

The last event I shot was just horrible with the footage completely unusable after about 20 mins. I couldn't even get a 5 or 6 second window to cut to without dropped frames.

I have no issue with the BMPCC as it is an amazing bit of kit for its size and price, but everyone needs to be aware of this issue so they don't try to use it for things that it is not capable of and I'm surprised that BMD have not issued an advisory while they work on this.

I also ran a test with the new firmware. Using ProResLT after it started dropping frames (around 40 mins again) I stopped the record and then immediately put it on record again. It started dropping frames again after only a couple of minutes, so I definitely think that how full the card is and/or heat could be an issue here.

Keeping my fingers crossed that you'll find a fix!

Cheers, Simon

The important thing is to test all codecs with all your cards... basically checking all your equipment before you're hired to do jobs. I bought a 128GB 45 MB/s card and it works perfectly.

This wednesday I recorded a 1 hour folk music concert/performance with my BMCC and two BMPCCs in Prores 422. The BMCC with Sandisk Extreme 240GB SSD and the BMPC with 128 GB card worked just fine, while I had to restart the recording after one second of dropped frames on the one with 64 GB 95 MB/s card. I knew this was going to happen, so I was prepared for it.

by any chance, anyone know what they formatted their cards to (exfat vs mac OS extended journaled [HFS+]) when frames started dropping?

I know that early on when formatting my cards to exfat I experienced dropped frames in all codecs (none so far on HFS+).

by any chance, anyone know what they formatted their cards to (exfat vs mac OS extended journaled [HFS+]) when frames started dropping?

I know that early on when formatting my cards to exfat I experienced dropped frames in all codecs (none so far on HFS+).

Always exFAT, 128 KB block size, as recommended in the manual. Microsoft recommends a block size of 128 KB for 32 GB – 256 TB, which corresponds to all my SSD units and SDXC cards.

I'm going between MacOS and Windows and prefer to use this file system for my work drives.

Yes agree everything needs to be tested (again ) but it's all rather frustrating when the same cards worked perfectly for HQ, yet fail on the lower bitrate flavours of ProRes.

Ok I have a technical question on how ProRes is recorded. Is there any in camera processing going on? Could it be that the lower bitrate codecs actually need more processing / compression in camera and the BMPCC just can't handle it? I really can't understand how it is just a card issue, when the same cards handle higher bitrates with ease.

No one have a theory / answer?

Dunno. Did a corporate shoot for H&M today and the last video I did in a multicam shoot had some dropped frames on the B-cam footage when I switched from my 128 GB Sandisk 45MB/s card to 64GB 95MB/s card. At least it's consistent...

LOL Yes consistently bizarre!!

Ok I've just had another bizarre BMPCC experience to add to the others.

I've been testing the camera prior to a shoot this evening and it started dropping frames on ALL ProRes flavours when using Sandisk Extreme 64GB cards (the cards I've always used).

I've just updated the firmware to 1.9.3 (from 1.8.2) and ProResLT has been running for awhile now with no dropped frames.....

I really wish there was some consistency to this!!

Hi,
i had droped frames on a 64Gb Transcent Ultra (60MB/s) in Prores HQ.

it was at the beginning of some takes oh and battery was under 30% maybe this was also an issue.

Hi,
i had droped frames on a 64Gb Transcent Ultra (60MB/s) in Prores HQ.

it was at the beginning of some takes oh and battery was under 30% maybe this was also an issue.

That SD is 'unapproved' by BM because the write speed is too low.
It seems that the BMPCC requires SanDisk Extreme or faster SD cards.

Well, i was shooting last weekend for a music video. I did several 5 min takes. After 6 ou 7 takes it started to drop frames each 4 or 5 seconds. I was using the extreme pro 32 gb. The first 5 clips are just fine. I was doing one take after take, so i thought it was a overheating issue. Only when i got home and started to watch the clips that i noticed that all my wides were ruined :/

I might call this out prematurely, but the 1.97 update seems to have solved the tiny issue with dropped frames on the 64 GB Sandisk Extreme 95 MB/s cards . My two Pocket Cinema Cameras and my two 64 GB cards are still happily rolling after more than an hour. One with an in camera formatted EXFAT card and one with a card formatted on my Windows laptop.

Prores 422 tests will commence soon

UPDATE: Prores 422 drops after 21:30 on both cards.

UPDATE 2: Same thing second time around on Prores 422, both cameras dropped frames after 21:22 and 21:24.

No dropped frames after more than an hour of Prores 422 on a Sandisk 128 GB 45MB/s card.

Has anyone done a test using today's firmware update?

Has anyone done a test using today's firmware update?

I just did...

And would you care to tell us your findings?

And would you care to tell us your findings?

[WINKING FACE]

Rick Lang
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And would you care to tell us your findings?

If you have a 27 inch HP Dreamcolor Z27X on it's native resolution, you should scroll up 8 inches from your post. But I guess this post is a sarcastic response to Garrett Gibbons's reply.

Sorry, i forgot to add my [irony] tag...

And would you care to tell us your findings?

If you have a 27 inch HP Dreamcolor Z27X on it's native resolution, you should scroll up 8 inches from your post. But I guess this post is a sarcastic response to Garrett Gibbons's reply.

I see now that you had posted your findings. The forum wasn't displaying new posts for me yesterday and your test result posts didn't turn up until today. Sorry for that! Others may have had the same issue, with some posts not displaying temporarily.

It appears that the dropped frames issue has not been solved on the SanDisk 95 mb/s card. Glad to hear that the slower one works just fine! Thanks for sharing your test results.

And would you care to tell us your findings?

If you have a 27 inch HP Dreamcolor Z27X on it's native resolution, you should scroll up 8 inches from your post. But I guess this post is a sarcastic response to Garrett Gibbons's reply.

I see now that you had posted your findings. The forum wasn't displaying new posts for me yesterday and your test result posts didn't turn up until today. Sorry for that! Others may have had the same issue, with some posts not displaying temporarily.

It appears that the dropped frames issue has not been solved on the SanDisk 95 mb/s card. Glad to hear that the slower one works just fine! Thanks for sharing your test results.

Cool. The LT seems to work allright, I recorded one hour and 10 minutes without a single dropped frame before i turned off the recordings, so at least it's a vast improvement. This'll solve all my classical choir concert recording issues 422 seems to work worse. Now after this update, this is a minor quibble as LT will probably be quite enough for the work I do when I need more than one hour of footage in a single take.

I'm about to do some tests on my BMPCC with the sandisk 64Gb Extreme 95mbs card, what frame rates are you guy's running your tests at?

Update, recorded ProRes 422 for over an hour on the 64Gb Sandisk Extreme with no skipped frames. 24fps at 1600iso to get the camera hot, no issues at all In camera format - ExFat -

Have BMPCC using Sandisk extreme 64 gig card, shooting at 30fps, ProResHQ. Started dropping frames at 32 minutes. Card formatted using Mac.
Any fix for this?

2 questions. I am currently performing tests on the BMPCC on Proxy, so how do I determine:

1. If the camera has dropped frames? I am checking on the camera periodically, so how will I know if it has dropped frames if I walk away from it for a few minutes?

2. What happens if I drop frames? Will it affect my overall runtime? Or will the image just be a bit jerky? I am more concerned about an accurate runtime than a choppy frame rate, due to the subject. A few dropped frames probably won't be noticed.

Well then I guess I'll try to be helpful and report what I found...

I shot about 2 hours and 45 minutes on Pro Res Proxy on the approved 64gb 95mbps Sandisk, without stopping and I assume there were no dropped frames. The camera behaved as a camera should.

I believe the latest firmware update 1.9.9 includes improvements for formatting in camera. Grant Petty's video specifically recommends people no longer format in another way, just in camera. The improvements may show up in the successful recording of ProRes LT for those who previously had problems. Has anyone done the upgrade and can confirm their problem has been addressed?


Rick Lang
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While I did not use LT, I have been using in camera formatting with exFAT, but I'm still using 1.9.8.

I believe the latest firmware update 1.9.9 includes improvements for formatting in camera. Grant Petty's video specifically recommends people no longer format in another way, just in camera. The improvements may show up in the successful recording of ProRes LT for those who previously had problems. Has anyone done the upgrade and can confirm their problem has been addressed?


Rick Lang
Sent using Tapatalk HD

Hi Rick , I have been doing the in-camera formatting using HFS+ and have shot for several hrs using prores LT & proxy. Invariably every time I observed the REC flashing with an exclamation mark inside. Though the recording looked fine at the outset, I cannot confirm if it did drop frames. I am waiting for someone to confirm if Rec flashing actually establishes dropped frames.

***** This issue of mine refers to the BMPCC and not URSA********
Paul

Paul, REC flashing does mean dropped frames. This 1.9.9 firmware update applies to all cameras I believe as they all benefit from the new code for in camera formatting of recording media. The bulk of changes are only for URSA, with the exception of the in camera media format.


Rick Lang
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Thanks Rick, you are right, Indeed I observed dropped frames when i edited the footage, Its really frustrating. I will update the firmware and check.

Paul

So if you aren't observing your camera continually you might miss the Rec flashing/dropped frames indicator? Any idea how long it continues to flash after a dropped frame?

Once a dropped frame is registered, the rec flashing continues for the entire duration of the clip.

I have some crazy numbers here from my tests (Pocket Camera with firmware 1.9.9):

Sandisk 64Gb 95MB/s
ProRes HQ: 47 min of continuous recording (Full Card).
ProRes 422: 30 min of continuous recording than it started to drop frames.
ProRes LT: 59 min of continuous recording than it started to drop frames.

Sandisk 32Gb 45MB/s
ProRes HQ: 25 min of continuous recording (Full Card), but completely dropped frames.
ProRes 422: 15 min of continuous recording than it started to drop frames.
ProRes LT: 49 min of continuous recording (Full Card).

At least for me the new firmware didn´t help in this matter, since in the pevious ones my 32Gb used to shoot ProRes HQ without dropped frames. All times the cards were formated in-camera (ex-FAT).

Ok then, no dropped frames so far. I did 2 two and a half hour recordings without a dropped frame.

I have updated the firmware to 1.9.9 and I am still observing Rec flashing for prores422 recording on my Sandisk 128 GB 45 MBPS card. I never observed this issue when I recorded prores HQ. BMD please help!!!

Paul, did you use the camera to format the media using the new 1.9.9 firmware? Did you try formatting the media in camera with both exFAT and HFS+?


Rick Lang
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Hi Rick, I formatted in camera with HFS+ with the latest firmware 1.9.9. I did not try ExFAT as I am a Mac user. But I am still waiting to know if anyone else in the forum has faced frame drop issues after updating to firmware 1.9.9 and really confirm if the firmware update indeed addresses this issue. in case the firmware successfully addresses this issue, I can safely assume that my card is problematic.

I format exFAT all the time and never run into problems on a Mac. What's the advantage to one over the other?

ExFAT is supported broadly, by just about every OS available today, and HFS+ is a proprietary format developed by Apple that has several features implemented to make it more resilient (e.g. journaling). If you have a Mac and don't have to hand off media to anyone working with a PC I strongly suggest you use HFS+. OS X is also known to have problems with ExFAT volumes on rare occasions, which can lead to footage loss.

Thanks for the explanation! I'll start formatting in hfs+ then.

It's a firmware issue - a lot of people have reported it on the Facebook BMPCC group. Weirdly enough, LT seems to work better with cheaper cards. Mileage may vary, but my Toshiba Exceria 64gb card can comfortably record ProResLT without dropping frames til it's full.

Thank you for the specific card recommendation! ProRes LT is all I need for most projects I use this camera for, and I will order that Toshiba card and test it out! At least the SanDisk Extreme Pro does work with raw and ProRes HQ!

I was about to order the Toshiba Exceria 64gb SD card. I was surprise that both B&H and Amazon has it priced more than the SanDisk Extreme Pro 64Gb that I used. Check it out here:

Toshiba Exceria 64Gb (Amazon) - USD124.64
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-SD-X64T2- ... ceria+64gb

Toshiba Exceria 64Gb (B&H) - USD88.00
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... _i_u3.html

SanDisk Extreme Pro 64Gb (B&H) - USD75.99
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8 ... _SDXC.html

I'm not sure which one of the Toshiba AJRubenstein was referring to but at those prices, I'm sticking with the SanDisk. It's cheaper and approved by BMD.

Never had this problem before... I had to format for PC for a project and had this issue for the first time. Now... I get this 12 drop frames everytime I press reccord.
THIS IS REAAAAAALLLY CRAPPY !!
I have a shoot tomorrow. My card is Lexar 1000X 128gb and since more than 50 shoot, never had any problem with this.
I did the firmware update and format the card about 20 times in the camera and on mac... not fix.
I'm really upset.

Freaking red "!" flashing all the time. - Shod I shoot with my DSLR.
damn...

I feel like formating the card for PC was not the move to do.

Benoit, I just noticed your post. I don't think that card is on the approved list of cards for the BMPCC. On the approved list for the Video Assist, it lists a slower Lexar card, but sometimes you can't rely on the speed alone as the internal firmware may be different and incompatible:

The following SD cards will record at a maximum of 1080i60 using HFS+ or exFAT:

Lexar Professional SD XC 600x 128GB


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While some of the faster cards go do ProRes HQ or 422, they dropped frames on ProRes LT. However, using the cards recommended by BM, yiu should not have any issues. Also, you can not go by just what the card lists as it reD/write speeds (these are based on short burst data transfers, not continuous video recording, which is much harder on the card. You can also use the BM SD speed test utility to check your card's real read/write speed. Also, over time, memory cells in the cards go bad, and are mapped out by the cards controller, which also slows down performance. I would just get a SanDisk Extreme Plus 64GB or larger for ProRes recording, or Extreme Pro SD card of at least 128GB or larger for best performance results when recording Raw or ProRes HQ.

I haven't had dropped frames since that was fixed in a firmware update a while back. I shoot only with the 64gb 95mb/s sandisks and it's been rock solid. Like Rick and Denny suggested shoot only with the cards on the list. Those 64gb cards are priced super reasonable nowadays.