CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

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Pedro Paiva

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CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostFri Sep 12, 2014 8:04 pm

Ok, now that the URSA is shipping (B&H told me I'm #6 on their list now, so I should get mine on their next batch) we have to get media too.
Sandisk's cards are the only brand available at B&H and Adorama at the moment and they are super expensive.
Considering that each 120GB card is able to record 6 minutes of 4k RAW footage, I guess that for cinema or advertising work, we need to have AT LEAST six 120GB cards and at $1.200 each, the sum goes up to $7.200 (more than the actual camera!!!) only for the CFAST Cards.
I noticed that Transcend has announced their CFAST 2.0 line for much better prices but I can't find those cards available anywhere and Transcend tech support did not reply to any of the 6 e-mails I sent them over the past few weeks.
They are advertising a 512GB card for $899.99 (with 500mb/s read and 250mb/sec write speeds: faster than the current Sandisk cards!)
So what are you guys planning on doing regarding this matter?
Are you all getting a bunch of Sandisk Cfast cards or are you waiting for Transcend?
I was thinking about getting just a couple of Sandisks so I could start shooting and then wait for Transcend's...
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Andrea Garbin

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostFri Sep 12, 2014 9:46 pm

Faster than Sandisk? Sandisk is 350mb/sec write speed (100mb/sec more), there are 2 series of Transcend the 00 and 50 with different write speed, but the 50 that is the fastest is still too slow for 4k RAW 60p, and honestly I don't trusth too much transcend. Another options could become Lexar, they announced a series of cfast 2.0 cards (3400x) but still no price or availability.
I have the same problems, for now I buyed 2 120Gb Sandisc, I'll wait for new Atomos for longer records
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Pedro Paiva

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSat Sep 13, 2014 12:13 am

Hello Andrea.
When did you receive your URSA?
Which battery plate did you use?
I've read people are having issues connecting IDX and Anton Bauer battery plates to the camera.
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Jacob Pattinson

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSat Sep 13, 2014 4:15 pm

Andrea Garbin wrote:Faster than Sandisk? Sandisk is 350mb/sec write speed (100mb/sec more), there are 2 series of Transcend the 00 and 50 with different write speed, but the 50 that is the fastest is still too slow for 4k RAW 60p, and honestly I don't trusth too much transcend. Another options could become Lexar, they announced a series of cfast 2.0 cards (3400x) but still no price or availability.
I have the same problems, for now I buyed 2 120Gb Sandisc, I'll wait for new Atomos for longer records

Lexars have a price and its a lot better... check bhp
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Pedro Paiva

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSat Sep 13, 2014 6:32 pm

Jacob Pattinson wrote:
Andrea Garbin wrote:Lexars have a price and its a lot better... check bhp


Lexar's are not yet available at B&H.
The only brand they have in stock is the extremely expensive Sandisk Extreme. wow, now I figure out the reason for that name... EXTREMEly expensive!
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Andrea Garbin

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSat Sep 13, 2014 8:09 pm

here they are:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... cfast.html

but not yet available, october come soon please! :D
almost half price of sandisk
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Pedro Paiva

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSat Sep 13, 2014 10:12 pm

Andrea Garbin wrote:here they are:
but not yet available, october come soon please! :D
almost half price of sandisk


Do you know if Sandisk usually keeps their estimate delivery dates?
Because if they're like BlackMagic we should expect to have those cards next year...
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSun Sep 14, 2014 7:13 pm

Jacob, good to see those Lexar 3400x 512GB CFast 2 cards advertised with read/write times of 510/450MB/s! Now we wait for the release and testing by BMD re certified for use in URSA.

Edit: now I only see the 256GB CFast 2 cards from Lexar with 510/450MB/s read/write times.

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Andrej Diamantstein

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSun Sep 21, 2014 2:25 am

forgive my ignorance... to get my feet wet i will not record in 4k raw at all but Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) at 1920 x 1080. how long can i record on a 120gb cfast?
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stevefal

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Sep 30, 2014 1:26 pm

I just got email notifications from BHPhoto that the Transcend CFast 2.0 cards have been "discontinued". Anyone else heard something about this? I see no replacements.
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Sep 30, 2014 5:17 pm

Andrej Diamantstein wrote:forgive my ignorance... to get my feet wet i will not record in 4k raw at all but Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) at 1920 x 1080. how long can i record on a 120gb cfast?


About 72 minutes for 30 fps given a bitrate of 220 Mbps.

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Andrea Garbin

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Sep 30, 2014 5:19 pm

I already received my cards (2xsandisk 120) and a lot of other equip from CVP uk, I still miss the camera! I think that Sandisk availability is good, will wait for Lexar to add some other cards
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M.J. Loheed

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Sep 30, 2014 7:03 pm

I received an e-mail from B&H that the Transcend Cfast has been discontinued as well. :(
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Doménico Travano

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Sep 30, 2014 10:14 pm

Andrea Garbin wrote:I already received my cards (2xsandisk 120) and a lot of other equip from CVP uk, I still miss the camera! I think that Sandisk availability is good, will wait for Lexar to add some other cards


According to B&H, Lexar is releasing their CFast 2.0 cards tomorrow.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?at ... +CFast+2.0

Looks like a pretty good deal in comparison to Sandisk.
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Norbert Bielan

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Sep 30, 2014 10:35 pm

They were around for weeks...and now it looks like they are completely gone! B&H and Adorama.

stevefal wrote:I just got email notifications from BHPhoto that the Transcend CFast 2.0 cards have been "discontinued". Anyone else heard something about this? I see no replacements.
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Oct 01, 2014 8:01 pm

Doménico Travano wrote:
Andrea Garbin wrote:I already received my cards (2xsandisk 120) and a lot of other equip from CVP uk, I still miss the camera! I think that Sandisk availability is good, will wait for Lexar to add some other cards


According to B&H, Lexar is releasing their CFast 2.0 cards tomorrow.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?at ... +CFast+2.0

Looks like a pretty good deal in comparison to Sandisk.


Not sure why your link fails for me, but here's another link:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... 0CFast%202

I inquired of Lexar about the write speed of their new 3400x CFast 2 cards and here is the good news:
64GB 270 MB/s
128GB 270 MB/s
256GB 450 MB/s

Hopefully BMD will be testing the cards to certify for use on URSA. Based on these numbers, I'd think it prudent to go with two of the $1,299 256GB cards for raw subject to BMD's certification.

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Pedro Paiva

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Oct 02, 2014 8:46 pm

rick.lang wrote:
Doménico Travano wrote:
Andrea Garbin wrote:I already received my cards (2xsandisk 120) and a lot of other equip from CVP uk, I still miss the camera! I think that Sandisk availability is good, will wait for Lexar to add some other cards


According to B&H, Lexar is releasing their CFast 2.0 cards tomorrow.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?at ... +CFast+2.0

Looks like a pretty good deal in comparison to Sandisk.


Not sure why your link fails for me, but here's another link:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... 0CFast%202

I inquired of Lexar about the write speed of their new 3400x CFast 2 cards and here is the good news:
64GB 270 MB/s
128GB 270 MB/s
256GB 450 MB/s

Hopefully BMD will be testing the cards to certify for use on URSA. Based on these numbers, I'd think it prudent to go with two of the $1,299 256GB cards for raw subject to BMD's certification.

Rick Lang
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Rick, I just called B&H and they said they have no ETA for the Lexar cards... :(
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Oct 02, 2014 9:23 pm

Pedro, I sent an email to Lexar re the ETA. They may respond within a day so I'll get back to you. But I don't see BMD certifying the cards the moment they are available in the marketplace. So it will be a gamble to purchase until then.


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Kristian Lam

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Oct 02, 2014 9:49 pm

Hi,

We've just tested the 32GB and 64GB Lexar Professional x3400 CFast 2.0 cards.

The 32GB version will be suitable for 4K ProRes HQ recording up to 60 fps.

The 64GB version will be suitable for both 4K ProRes HQ (up to 60fps) and RAW (up to 30 fps).

The document on the website will be updated soon with this information.
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timbutt2

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Oct 02, 2014 10:55 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

We've just tested the 32GB and 64GB Lexar Professional x3400 CFast 2.0 cards.

The 32GB version will be suitable for 4K ProRes HQ recording up to 60 fps.

The 64GB version will be suitable for both 4K ProRes HQ (up to 60fps) and RAW (up to 30 fps).

The document on the website will be updated soon with this information.

Any tests with the 128GB or 256GB versions? If those are suitable for 4K RAW up to 60 fps then I think that will greatly help due to their great pricing.
"Movies are not watched. They are an encounter with a life's experience not your own." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Early 2013)
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Oct 02, 2014 11:42 pm

Timbutt2, the URSA raw will write DNGs to alternate CFast 2 cards and that has not been released yet as you know. It may be premature to say what works and what doesn't until the firmware release for URSA 60 fps raw. Hopefully the list of Lexar CFast 2 cards certified for URSA will include the 128GB card for 30 fps raw or greater and the 256GB card for 60 fps raw.


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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostFri Oct 03, 2014 6:34 pm

Pedro, sorry to report that Lexar responded to my request for an ETA for the new cards and they told me they do not have a public release date yet. That could mean it's days away or it could be weeks. Considering that BMD is already testing their cards, it is something that is getting their attention no doubt. Keep your fingers crossed!


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Pedro Paiva

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Oct 07, 2014 8:56 pm

rick.lang wrote:Pedro, sorry to report that Lexar responded to my request for an ETA for the new cards and they told me they do not have a public release date yet. That could mean it's days away or it could be weeks. Considering that BMD is already testing their cards, it is something that is getting their attention no doubt. Keep your fingers crossed!


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B&H told me they are not expecting to receiving then before November so I had to buy a couple of Sandisk to start with and as soon as Lexar releases their 256GB i'll get a couple of those too.
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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 16, 2015 10:02 pm

Hi There,

I need to get this straight...

BM Releases a camera which is able to record 60fps and record RAW but they ship the camera with recording options that dont allow for it ???

In addition, the camera may be awesome but CFAST is VERY expensive. Being able to record ONE HALF day of footage cost more than the camera itself. A full day busy work... Would cost 4 times the amount of the camera.

Love the recording options of the BMPC - 500GB of SSD costs very little in comparison.

Please advise
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Tony Richards

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 16, 2015 10:14 pm

Yes this is pretty much a nightmare for me. I have been looking day after day in the UK for Lexar to release their card. I am stuck with one single (£338) Sandisk 60GB card that I am absolutely paranoid is going to break on me. To have a £338 card that could break at any moment is really no way to live. I am desperate for the supply of these cards to increase, for prices to come down and for a the safety that any other storage medium brings. I am vastly vastly underutilising this new camera for fear of losing my one and only card. There is no way that I am going to gamble on buying another one of these time bomb cards until I see this problem sorted. Funny, I just did a google search on cfast card with a one week parameter and saw that somebody is desperate for a 120GB one on Craiglist due to one breaking on them. It is crazy to be gambling these sorts of £/$ per GB. These cards are crazy expensive, crazy prone to breakage and thus my camera is just stuck gathering dust. Where is my light at the end of the tunnel. This storage medium is just such a disappointment and I have never had such buyer's remorse. One of my worst purchases I am beginning to feel...

Cheers
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 16, 2015 10:28 pm

The Wise CFast2 128GB cards were available briefly but I see now, they are "no longer available!" We were told Lexar's were to be released in Paris about this time, but I don't know if that has happened. Very frustrating when you can't find the recommended cards for raw or ProRes at 30 fps. 60 fps? 80 fps? No word on the higher fame rates, but frightening when you even cannot find a recommended card to do 30 fps.

An Internet search appears to show the Wise are available in Southeast Asia if that works for you.

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Norbert Bielan

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 16, 2015 10:58 pm

You can rent cards? Or at least recorders?

Definitely can still use the camera if you have work?
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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Feb 17, 2015 4:39 pm

You can rent Cfast 120GB or 60GB cards in the UK now at a fraction of the cost of buying! There is a specific company which does just that...
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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Feb 18, 2015 2:30 am

SO BMD did release a camera which is not able to record what the sensor delivers.

At least they give meaning to the term 'Monster' & 'Oversight'

I did a quick calculation today... If I were to buy an URSA and wanting to shoot with it thru the day without offloading. I would have to purchase CFAST cards in the vicinity of $20k. Plus the price of the URSA itself.

Filming this camera from THAT perspective, this camera is lot more expensive and less capable when compared to a Scarlett.

If it wasn't so sad it would actually be worth a good laugh.
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Feb 18, 2015 2:38 am

M. Carlsen wrote:... If I were to buy an URSA and wanting to shoot with it thru the day without offloading. I would have to purchase CFAST cards in the vicinity of $20k. Plus the price of the URSA itself...


You could do it if you needed to, but you know the camera is designed for hot swapping CFast 2 cards, and if your budget could afford to spend $20K on cards, you might consider buying three or four cards and using a DIT continuously to swap and offload cards. It is disappointing still due to the cost of the cards but the price is falling and before long you'll have three suppliers to chose from which will continue the downward trend for the cost of a card and possibly the upward trend for capacity.

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Norbert Bielan

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Feb 18, 2015 3:19 am

In what world do you not offload REDMAGs? They are more expensive than the 2.0 cards!
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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Feb 18, 2015 12:05 pm

Hi Norbert,

To answer your question:
in no world !

But thats the point. One EXPECTs that from RED and the company does NOT disguise itself as such.
One does NOT expect that from BMD. At all, especially since the URSA has the same sensor as the BMPC.
Why bring a bigger and better camera on the market but pass it a severely crippled and MUCH to its little brother inferior recording solution !!!!! Makes absolutely ZERO sense. As a matter of fact, it makes so little sense that I think perhaps it was a simple oversight in engineering. But hey... Lets market a camera and induce a USP of being able to record 80fps... Forget about being able to actually record it. Just put the camera on the market.. Then it is there and we can fix it later with a firmware update.... Oh SHOOOOT... We can't fix it with a firmware UG.....

BMD enters the camera market and penetrates it via dumping-prices. On their exhibitions they proclaim to create great and affordable cameras for everyone (Their cameras are great). URSA falls into that cat as well.

But with URSA - today - and even if one wanted to - he would NOT even be able to record RAW @ URSA's max-fps just because the company opted for braid-dead recording solution via cfast.

They have SSD media in the Prod. Camera. Great. Whats wrong with that??? Or mSATA. They might as well have opted to use CF cards. That would be just as incomprehensible. I would have purchased two URSAs for my company without the blink of an eye. With CFAST as rec-Option, I will regard URSA for what it is... A 19 lbs box of dead-weight.
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Norbert Bielan

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Feb 18, 2015 3:50 pm

I hear you...it is what it is though. It's a new format and it may or may not be used by dozens of other cameras in the future. Maybe SD card users were saying the something about CF cards? I myself wasn't too happy about the price of P2 cards (expensive as well back then). Tech changes...you just roll with it.

I've filmed up to 30 in RAW and 60 in RAW 3:1 without any issues. However, it's 50/50 with 80fps and dropped frames.
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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostWed Feb 18, 2015 8:31 pm

M. Carlsen wrote:SO BMD did release a camera which is not able to record what the sensor delivers.



URSA has been able to for some time record what the sensor delivers.

The problem is media. The main supplier of reliable media have released a version of firmware in their cards that appears to be incompatible. They are doing RMA's on dead media. But it doesn't solve the inherent problem.

The same problem exists for Arri AMIRA owners. But it appears though that ARRI still have a lot of stock of CFAST cards which they sell as their own media. One workaround could be to purchase Arri Amira cards, but I'm also thinking you still have the same firmware issue (pretty sure Arri Cfast cards are SanDisk) snd they are likely not going to sell to non Amira owners.

I also note the occasional thread on Arri's own forums also talking about randomly failing Cfast media, though it doesn't seem to be acknowledged as an issue for them. It's hard to tell.

JB
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 6:39 pm

M. Carlsen wrote:But thats the point. One EXPECTs that from RED and the company does NOT disguise itself as such.
One does NOT expect that from BMD. At all, especially since the URSA has the same sensor as the BMPC.


Don't forget that unlike REDMags, CFast2 media are an industry standard. Their prices will come down FAR more quickly than the price of REDMags, no matter how slowly the CFast2 prices drop. :)

I overheard a Red operator whose posts imply that one should hire him because he has a Red, almost in the same sentence, criticize the Ursa because of the cost of CFast 2 media and the comment about being jaded by the (even higher) price of REDMags.

That said, since the Ursa's announcement, the CFast2 media prices have dropped. They'll continue to do so. As far as choosing CFast2 as the media of choice for the Ursa, BMD might have jumped the gun a bit in adopting new tech, but they're also striving to make a camera that has a longer life than any of their other cameras, which will most likely end up glutting the used market as soon as BMD announces the sequels, since none of their others have any sort of upgrade options beyond what their current processing, bandwidth, and thermal capabilities allow.
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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 9:09 pm

Rakesh Malik, the timing for the URSA may have been premature, especially in terms of adopting new technology, but I think they made the right move in terms of the timing, given the timing of the announcement of the AJA CION. BMD it appears wants to be the alpha dog of the pack and not following someone else's lead if they can manage it. The price the early adopters pay is often a delay in implementation of all features and arguably higher costs. There are advantages in being an early adopter though that would be the subject of another thread.

I think in retrospect the most stunning part of URSA is not the 10" monitor that many people have admitted can be very useful after all, it's the user changeable turret housing new mounts and/or new sensors! Impossible to future protect every aspect of the camera, but don't underestimate the pleasure you'll feel when you slap in the next new sensor! You can argue even the BMCC EF was premature, even the BMCC with passive MFT was premature, but after almost three years, nothing touches them in value! Will be ironic if in another couple of years, we could make the same claim about that user upgrade of the turret. Yes, there are flaws, but I'm sure you admire their enthusiasm to shake up the indie industry.

I looked very carefully at the Canon Cinema EOS C100 yesterday. So many nice features, so suitable for so many purposes. My gosh, they even have a camera feature now that you can select for their STM zoom lenses that keeps the aperture constant throughout the zoom range! Of course they continue to make those ridiculous lenses without a constant aperture, but instead of making more useful cinema zooms, they use software to 'fix' the problem. Not ideal since the lenses lose light then, but still better than current situation with their non-STM variable aperture zooms.

But just when I find many things to admire, I look at the image quality and it's still a sobering view of what Canon has always done to their output: crippled by compression and lightweight codecs. I guess the deciding factor was Canon wasn't ready to move to CFast 2 cards, so you still get SD cards and tiny bitrates compared to BMD cameras. Nice they have the ability to write some version of ProRes to an external Atomos recorder, but I admire BMD for their emphasis on internal recording of raw or good quality ProRes.


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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 10:19 pm

Everyone is stating that CFAST will drop.... Look guys...

CompactFlash is VERY wide used and is MUCH more used than CFAST is and has been so for MANY YEARS.
In the beginning it was... THE PRICE is going to drop. It DID and still does.... B U T ---- are still extremely expensive. Perhaps DSLRs will adopt CFAST and perhaps they won't. If they don't the prices WONT drop anywhere NEAR where we want them to be OR ANYWHERE near SSDs.

Mark my words. CFAST will NEVER drop to a price which will reflect the prices of BMD URSA.
And unless URSA passes its guts another recording option... This camera will go down in history as the biggest turnover-creator for CFAST vendors.

20 years from now people will smile back and remember - the camera that cost fraction of the media it wanted to record to...
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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 10:29 pm

rick.lang wrote:.... but I admire BMD for their emphasis on internal recording of raw or good quality ProRes.


Rick Lang
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SO DO I. Mores the pity that they opted for CFAST.

Thank God that the Production Camera uses SSDs.

URSA with SSD - is a no brainer for anyone not willing to spend more than $10k max for a cam.
URSA is not a viable option unless one purchases $20k worth of CFAST. Which at todays speeds probably WONT be able to record RAW what the URSA can do in 2 years from now.... So one has just spent $20k for obsolescence.....

Most folks willing to spend +$20k or a camera is also willing to spend $30k. You might not believe that but that is the way it is... And while the URSA is highly competitive in the 0-6000 $k range... It is absolute and totally non-competitive above the 15k range. RED dominates THAT sector ALSO because of its reputation. RED uses SSDs to record 6k @ 60fps & 150fps @ 4k RAW... And BMD states that SSDs aren't suitable for REAL video recording... This is the funniest excuse I have ever heard... And is totally off the chart and incredible !
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 10:50 pm

M. Carlsen wrote:
rick.lang wrote:RED dominates THAT sector ALSO because of its reputation. RED uses SSDs to record 6k @ 60fps & 150fps @ 4k RAW... And BMD states that SSDs aren't suitable for REAL video recording... This is the funniest excuse I have ever heard... And is totally off the chart and incredible !


Have you seen their media prices? They're not bog standard, off-the-shelf SSDs. And look at how many posts there have been on BMD's fora about SSDs and dropped frames in raw.

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. The only way to be sure that SSD recording will be reliable is to take the approach that Aja and Red and Convergent do, which is to figure out specific models that are reliable, package them up so that you can't use just any old SSD in your box, and resell only yours. Digital Bolex avoided this... by building an enterprise-class SSD into the camera.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://www.WhiteCranePhotography.com
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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 10:57 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
M. Carlsen wrote:
rick.lang wrote:RED dominates THAT sector ALSO because of its reputation. RED uses SSDs to record 6k @ 60fps & 150fps @ 4k RAW... And BMD states that SSDs aren't suitable for REAL video recording... This is the funniest excuse I have ever heard... And is totally off the chart and incredible !


Have you seen their media prices? They're not bog standard, off-the-shelf SSDs. And look at how many posts there have been on BMD's fora about SSDs and dropped frames in raw.

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. The only way to be sure that SSD recording will be reliable is to take the approach that Aja and Red and Convergent do, which is to figure out specific models that are reliable, package them up so that you can't use just any old SSD in your box, and resell only yours. Digital Bolex avoided this... by building an enterprise-class SSD into the camera.


Well, of course one has to purchase a good SSD. What I am saying is that anyone purchasing a RED IS FINE with High Priced recording media.... Anyone purchasing a BMCC does so because he DONT want to pay a HIGH PRICE.

Or do you really think that BMD would stand ANY chance against RED with their current products if their pricing would be that of REDs..?

I don't think they would sell a single camera if that thesis were true !
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Norbert Bielan

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostFri Feb 20, 2015 1:13 am

Well, obviously. Money plays a big part in everything.
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rick.lang

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostFri Feb 20, 2015 3:53 pm

For some, money seems to be an end, but for most, money is the means to an end. It's true that the cost of all BMD cameras is less money than is required for the other elements we associate with using the camera. Traditionally there are so many accoutrements required, a short list of which include: lenses, filters, tripod, sound gear, lighting gear, for most a rig often with matte box, perhaps a slider, a jib, a dolly. Well for URSA, to be fair, media cost is significant. And in this digital age, we need to include the cost of the computer system, storage management, and various post software. These are the tools that support the process and the end result you have in mind. The combined costs of these adjuncts, far exceed the cost of any camera.

We all agree that BMD cameras, whatever their shortcomings, do a commendable job providing the quintessential image needed to justify all the effort and money. Yes, you can put lipstick on any pig, but it's still a pig. I think we can debate all aspects of making these cameras successful or where there are areas of concern, but we are a community of savvy and perspicacious creatives that appreciate the tools we have and the resources herein... You!


Rick Lang
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Denny Smith

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostFri Feb 20, 2015 4:39 pm

Your camera system is only as good as the weakest link in it. You buy a good IQ camera, stick $1k+ lens on it, a good tripod, etc. Why then would you go cheap on the recording media? If you do not get,the recording home, you have got nothing! That is why I have always bought the best media available for the job, even back in the good old "tape" days. A good camera demands good media to go with it.
Anybody want a case of Sony DigiBeta SX tape I have left over?
Cheers everyone, the debate goes on....
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Morten Carlsen

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostSat Feb 21, 2015 1:25 am

So BMD made the right choice....

At least all the users on this forum seem to just love CFAST.

I myself would have preferred another format. But it is all a matter of taste I guess. Some like CFAST and some don't... I don't !
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Nigel Daniels

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 23, 2015 6:12 pm

I saw a user on Rick's blog mentioning that they were using or getting away with using - http://www.amazon.com/Super-Talent-32GB ... =cfast+2.0 for 3:1 raw recording and prores 422.

I'm thinking of giving this card a try for similar shooting - http://www.amazon.com/Apacer-APCFA128GA ... +2.0+128gb. Amazon has a return policy so I think it may be worth a try for 3:1 at least. I preordered the Lexar but still waiting on a release date.
Nigel
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Guy Fiorita

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 23, 2015 7:02 pm

[quote="Nigel Daniels"]I saw a user on Rick's blog mentioning that they were using or getting away with using - http://www.amazon.com/Super-Talent-32GB ... =cfast+2.0 for 3:1 raw recording and prores 422.

Hey Nigel,

I bought a 128g super talent card after reading a similar report about it working for 3;1 raw. I paid $129 for it. I did some testing and the card worked for 4k prores HQ, I filled the card four times and it didn't drop a frame. 3;1 raw worked for about 10 minutes and then it would start dropping frames. It didn't matter if it was one long clip or several short clips, whenever the card got 60-70% full it would drop frames like clockwork. If i'm shooting something 1080 I would use the card but otherwise its too much of a risk in my opinion.

Adorama's site now says the lexar cards are 'on the way to the warehouse' and I saw a few 256gig lexar cards on amazon yesterday (they are now sold out). I have a feeling the media drought will soon be over.
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Nigel Daniels

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostMon Feb 23, 2015 7:04 pm

Guy Fiorita wrote:
Nigel Daniels wrote:I saw a user on Rick's blog mentioning that they were using or getting away with using - http://www.amazon.com/Super-Talent-32GB ... =cfast+2.0 for 3:1 raw recording and prores 422.

Hey Nigel,

I bought a 128g super talent card after reading a similar report about it working for 3;1 raw. I paid $129 for it. I did some testing and the card worked for 4k prores HQ, I filled the card four times and it didn't drop a frame. 3;1 raw worked for about 10 minutes and then it would start dropping frames. It didn't matter if it was one long clip or several short clips, whenever the card got 60-70% full it would drop frames like clockwork. If i'm shooting something 1080 I would use the card but otherwise its too much of a risk in my opinion.

Adorama's site now says the lexar cards are 'on the way to the warehouse' and I saw a few 256gig lexar cards on amazon yesterday (they are now sold out). I have a feeling the media drought will soon be over.



Guy thanks. The Apacer 2.0 card has a sustained Read up to 310MB per second;Sustained Write up to 240MB per, which is double that of the one you're using. It just got me curious. I guess I'll wait then. I was becoming desperate. Lol. :)
Nigel
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Guy Fiorita

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Re: CFAST 2.0 card options for the URSA?

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 7:14 pm

Lexar 256 cfast 2.0 cards on Amazon - $850 and eligible for prime shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/Lexar-Professiona ... +cfast+2.0

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