RAW/Lighting Question

I don't have any experience shooting RAW. I produce lots of stuff with a quick turnaround time and ProRes has been more than enough.

This week, I need to get a few different shots of 2 people sitting across from each other at a table and behind them is a big window/glass wall overlooking Manhattan. If we can, we'd like to leave the lighting downstairs.

Would this be an ideal situation to shoot RAW? I would like to see the city and the actors. (I don't want to create a silhouette.)

How far can I push it in post without introducing too much noise?

Thank you for your time.

I would say what camera, but that doesn't matter. ALL BMD cameras need to be overexposed by one stop to steer clear from any issues.

Meter the room and see what you need to do, even if you use one light and a bounce you will need Lights

I strongly recommend you shoot a test before the day of production, and take the footage all the way through post. That's really the only way to be sure of a result satisfactory to you.

There's only about a stop or so difference in latitude between ProRes and RAW. Whereas there can be several stops difference between light levels outside a window and indoors. Many variables: Time of day, cloud cover or clear sky, interior light levels, and so forth.

Generally speaking I think you'll find you need fairly bright daylight balanced interior lighting to allow a camera with "12-stops" or "13-stops" of latitude to achieve the look you're seeking. Could require a few 800-1200 watt HMIs for the key, or equivalent daylight fluorescent fixtures, etc. subject to your testing. Or, if you have lots of time, you can apply ND gel film on the window glass, but must be done very carefully to avoid visible wrinkles. Gelling the windows means you can use far less interior lighting, which can have lots of benefits.

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I was at home depot the other day, and noticed they had tinted film to put over windows for privacy.. have any of you guys tried that?

It's about $40 per roll.. expensive but interesting.. I may experiment with it one day,

Thank you for the replies. Peter - thank you for that info.

I am DEFINITELY going to do some tests before the shoot. I'm a little apprehensive with lighting the scene because I don't know how I will be able to avoid reflections from the glass. The window tint will not be possible.

Use a polarizer to cut reflections

Can't rely on a Pola honestly.
What you'll need to do is just get the lights just out of frame with them and their reflections (angle of incidence= angle of reflection). You will most certainly need supplemental lighting. I wouldn't go HMI necessarily-- though I have used M18s for corporate things before. Kino 4x4 and Divas will be your friend-- you'll need them.

Another trick, depending upon the distance between the window and the subject is to put say a 8x8 or a 12x12 double or single behind them, if it's out of focus it will tone down the BG substantially. Whether or not you can fit that in there, I don't know-- though you don't really need the whole frame-- you can also just try to hang the material off of the ceiling-- depending on what it's made of-- with scissor clamps and just tie it onto them.

There are myriad ways to make this work-- but it really all depends on where the shoot is. However just uing RAW is certainly not the cure-all when you're dealing with an insane contrast range between INT and EXT daylight.

Shooting RAW, however you expose it, will generally buy you a little more recovery of highlights, simply because of the higher bit depth of the file.

Basically you don't want to take lighting up but if you want to shoot into a window and hold detail outside unless it's a very cloudy day, late or early, or the windows are VERY heavily tinted you're not going to be able to hold both.

You need some firepower to bring the interior levels up to match those of outside the window.

If you want to see out there and have detail, RAW is no magic bullet. You'll need to light the FG up or knock the background down.

JB

Use ND film you can buy it in 24X24 sheets and put it on the window. you can control the blowouts that windows normally have. Any good luck

Make sure you get any little wrinkle out of the window ND sheeting, and watch the reflections on the glass, sheeting or not.

Best would be to just throw the background pretty out of focus to minimize the chance of it showing anything back to the camera.

I strongly recommend you shoot a test before the day of production, and take the footage all the way through post. That's really the only way to be sure of a result satisfactory to you.

I agree with Peter on this one. There's no better way of telling if you're going for the right look unless you test it before. Even if it's not in the exact same setup as the one you'll have in production, you still need to know how much fill you need when the subject is lighted from behind.

Also, don't forget that even if your subject is evenly lit in terms of light intensity, what you won't be able to fix in post is the direction of the light. Normally, if you got a window behind the subject and you rely solely on the natural bounces available in the room, you'll end up with a flat lit subject.

If you're going for a more natural or even dramatic look, I'd recommend using at least a mirror or high reflective bounce that's lighting the subject from one of the sides. Lighting from the side also helps hiding the bounce from view. But, if you're planning to get a higher key look, you should create some balance with multiple light sources.

If you want to see out there and have detail, RAW is no magic bullet. You'll need to light the FG up or knock the background down.

JB

Too many people seem to think that shooting raw and fixing it in post is a good idea, just because it has the latitude to let you sort of get away with it. In the end though, it's a lot of extra work and the results will rarely be anywhere near as good as if you'd just done it right in the first place.

For starters, even if you can get a decent exposure on the talkers by recovering the blacks in post, they're most likely going to be so flatly "illuminated" that they'll look like cardboard cutouts, and you'll also have to restore the color of their skin.

It's really not all that difficult to accomplish, you just have to be careful about where you position your lights so that you don't see them in the reflections, and flag them to prevent unwanted glare.

Keep in mind that you probably don't need all that much light, since they're going to be sitting. People aren't all that big, so even a small light can provide enough light for just them.

Either way, it's going to be worth it to take the lights. It usually is.

I think You can get it without any ND's and any problems. Just by shooting RAW and on post make a mask on the window with second layer of the exact same footage, but with lower exposure settings in ACR. Make sure, that the outside will not been too highly overexposed.

So:
1. Shoot RAW
2. Bring the footage in to After Effects
3. Expose the foreground as you want in ACR
4. Bring the footage again in to AE with lower exposure values, where the outside will look better.
5. Mask the low exposure window out and place it on top of your foreground footage

Voila, You will get it right as you want

Cheers