BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

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adamroberts

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BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostFri Nov 14, 2014 2:12 pm

For those that like using Adobe CameraRAW (via After Effects, Lightroom, etc) but always wished they could process the DNGs as BMDFilm (so you can apply LUTs and get expected results)... Well Vision Color has you covered:
http://www.vision-color.com/bmdfilm/
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Steve Holmlund

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostFri Nov 14, 2014 7:19 pm

Awesome! Thanks, Adam, for the link. Pricing is awesome, too.

Steve
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Jules Bushell

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostFri Nov 14, 2014 8:11 pm

Thanks Adam.
That's what I need.

Jules
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Steve Holmlund

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostFri Nov 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Initial experience, there very well could be pilot error...

Install Vision Color.
Open Lightroom 5.6 64-bit (Win)
Import a DNG from the BMPCC (meaning, it's a compressed DNG)
DNG in Lightroom has the flat BMD Film look
Very easy for a novice like me to get something that looks good (to a novice) with Lightroom interface
Apply grade to the other DNGs.
Export from Lightroom to DNG clip

Observations:
- Open DNG frame from the exported DNG in Photoshop and the grading changes are there.
- Premiere CC CANNOT import the exported DNG ("unsupported format or damaged file")
- Resolve 11 imports Lightroom's modified DNG no problem but shows it in its unmodified format

Question: I wonder if Premiere is expecting to import the Pocket's compressed DNG file and Lightroom's export doesn't generate that but rather, a "normal" DNG?

Haven't checked out Speedgrade yet, was just impressed with getting something I liked in Lightroom.
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adamroberts

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Nov 24, 2014 4:31 pm

OK So I've been testing the preset/profile over the weekend. Here are 2 quick grabs from this film:

This was my process. Import the same 2 RAW clips into Resolve 11 (11.0.0) and into After Effects CS2014 (ver 13.0.2).

Made no adjustments to the RAW processing. Default settings all round. Resolve was set to process RAW as BMDFilm, as was Adobe CameraRAW. I then exported PNGs before making the split comp in PS.
Image
Image


Next I simply applied the same LUT (BMDFilm_Kodak Vis3 200T 5213 (NEG)_FPE.cube) to a node in Resolve and via the "ApplyColorLUT" plugin in AE.
Image
Image


As you can see the results are almost indistinguishable. There is an ever so slight difference in the highlights. This is probably due to the differences in the De-bayer process. It's close enough tho and addresses the issue for those who can't run Resolve. but can run Adobe CameraRAW and would like to work in BMDFilm.

Is it worth $18 (€15)?? Well I guess that depends on your needs.

I bought it but I use Resolve. So why did I buy it? Well I bought the bundle version and in the next update a few more camera will be added. Many Nikon cameras. This means I can now process all my RAW timelapse footage from my Nikon DSLRs in BMDFilm and then bring them into Resolve and match all my footage that was shot on my BM cameras. :-)
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adamroberts

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Nov 24, 2014 6:28 pm

Someone on BMCUser forum asked me how the profile works. Thought I'd share that here too.

Once installed it is part of the CameraRAW interface. It simply loads the camera profile into ACR.

In the CameraRAW interface, if you then click on the "Camera Calibration" tab there is a drop down that lets you select a camera profile. Here you can select BMDFilm or Embedded (which is what you use if you don't have the profile installed) or any other profile installed.

The process is pretty much automated. It detects that you have loaded a DNG from the BM camera and applies the profile (if not you simply select it from the drop down). You can then make whatever adjustments you like as you normally would in ACR.
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Steve Holmlund

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 12:45 am

Adam, thanks for the additional info. Much appreciated.
Steve
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DavidSmolik

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 9:52 am

Well I don't use Resolve just yet because my computer is not powerful enough to even open it yet so this is exactly what I need!
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Chris Quevedo

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 2:21 pm

three cheers for Vision Color!!!
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Justin Melson

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostWed Nov 26, 2014 1:19 am

Just what I need! Awesome! Thanks for the share.
https://www.youtube.com/happyfoxproductions
BMCC, Zoom H4n, RODE NTG-3, Konova Slider
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostFri Nov 28, 2014 5:23 pm

Thanks a lot for your evaluation, Adam!

I am trying to do the same thing but it doesn't seem to work as well here.

Resolve
Image

ACR
Image

It is pretty close but the colors are still visibly off (if you switch between them). Do you think this is as off or close as your test? Or is something going wrong here?

I'm trying to solve this problem with the patient help from the VisionColor guys. The last option we see is that it might be a settings issue. The trick is designed to work with AE and Resolve in default presets. So I set ACR to "default camera raw settings" and "as shot" and didn't use any color management in AE. In Resolve I didn't install any LUTs and tried different settings in Resolve but the best result I got with color science DaVinci YRGB. Could you kindly confirm you use the same setting? Or do you have any additional input or information regarding your (relevant) settings?

Your help would be very much appreciate here!

P.S.: Here's my original DNG from the BMPCC:
Thanks a lot for your evaluation, Adam!

I am trying to do the same thing but it doesn't seem to work as well here.

Resolve
Image

ACR
Image

It is pretty close but the colors are still visibly off (if you switch between them). Do you think this is as off or close as your test? Or is something going wrong here?

I'm trying to solve this problem with the patient help from the VisionColor guys. The last option we see is that it might be a settings issue. The trick is designed to work with AE and Resolve in default presets. So I set ACR to "default camera raw settings" and "as shot" and didn't use any color management in AE. In Resolve I didn't install any LUTs and tried different settings in Resolve but the best result I got with color science DaVinci YRGB. Could you kindly confirm you use the same setting? Or do you have any additional input or information regarding your (relevant) settings?

Your help would be very much appreciate here!

P.S.: Here's my original DNG from the BMPCC:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/234 ... a.dng?dl=1
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostFri Dec 05, 2014 3:24 pm

I actually created a fresh installation with Windows, Resolve and AE to no avail. Is there anyone there who has the means and the kindness to check if his system produces the same difference between the rendering of ACR and Resolve with my DNG?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/234 ... a.dng?dl=1

I'd appreciated that very much and it would be extremely helpful.
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Anna Petrova

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Dec 07, 2014 8:52 am

Jan, please check this link - http://fastpic.ru/view/66/2014/1206/8b7 ... 3.jpg.html.
Almost the same difference with our bmpc.
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Dec 07, 2014 10:00 pm

Awesome, Anna! Thanks a ton for your help, time and effort!
So maybe that's an issue with the Pocket? I'll look up some DNG from a different BM camera and check if the problem is the same. It seems there is a solution since Adam made it happen and I'm sure the guys from Vision Color had respectable results as well.
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Andrew Bell

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Dec 07, 2014 10:34 pm

Anna and Jan! Is it possible that you applied some of color profile to your dng in acr?
By default in acr you can choose only 2 color profiles for saving or importing files: sRGB and AdobeRGB.
What software are you using for opening dng?

And by the way Anna do you readed this?
*BMDFilm for ACR uses the default BMDFilm curve and color science, not the version specifically for the 4K camera.

So you need to compare in resolve using the same BMDFilm preset not for 4K camera. Adam said that they work hard about releasing 4K Color version.
Blackmagic Production 4K Camera
https://www.youtube.com/user/reklama4demo
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Dec 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Hi Andrew, thanks for chiming in. In AE you can't apply a separate color space to ACR. I didn't use any LUT in Resolve, only interpreted the footage as "BMDFilm" and in AE used default settings all around (and a fresh installation as well). So that can't be it.
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Dec 07, 2014 10:58 pm

We just tested some of the available footage from the BMCC. Although not perfect the color seems to be much closer than my footage from the BMPCC.
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adamroberts

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Dec 07, 2014 11:05 pm

I'll be back in my edit suite tomorrow and can look into this. Jan I'll download your BNG then and can share mine.

Got a proper reply from VisionColor. They said they won't be making a 4K version but will be releasing a LUT that will convert your footage created with the BMDFilm profile to match the 4K.
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Anna Petrova

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Dec 08, 2014 2:37 am

adamroberts wrote:They said they won't be making a 4K version but will be releasing a LUT that will convert your footage created with the BMDFilm profile to match the 4K.

Thanks for sharing. Did they mention when? :)
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSat Jun 27, 2015 4:50 pm

Anna wrote:Thanks for sharing. Did they mention when?

Yes, I'm wondering that too. Any news there? I'm currently working on a project with the 4K and the colour difference between the Resolve and the ACR interpretation is huge.
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adamroberts

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSat Jun 27, 2015 5:46 pm

I'll ask. Never followed up on it as I normally use Resolve.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostSun Jun 28, 2015 7:50 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any obscure reason why Adobe Premiere cannot interpret the DNG like After Effects, Photoshop or Lightroom?
I've just bought it from Vision Color, but this could be extremely more useful if it could work in Premiere, at least for me...
Joaquin Torrents
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adamroberts

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Jun 29, 2015 7:02 am

Joaquin Torrents wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but is there any obscure reason why Adobe Premiere cannot interpret the DNG like After Effects, Photoshop or Lightroom?
I've just bought it from Vision Color, but this could be extremely more useful if it could work in Premiere, at least for me...


Umm... Because Adobe had made a half hearted attempt at supporting CinemaDNG in Premiere Pro.

I'm sure they will improve it overtime...
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Jun 29, 2015 7:16 am

It's just guessing but it may be possible that for the waaay faster interpretation of the DNGs in Premiere they had to drop a considerable amount of the functionality of ACR.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Jun 29, 2015 8:57 am

Thanks Adam and Jan. I love what VisionColor does, but I would really like that Premiere could read the BM DNG files as the others apps...If I have enough time, I normally use Resolve to color correct in my workflow. But for fastest jobs, I just use Premiere (after transcode to Prores from Resolve) for editing and color correction.
Using the new Lumetri panel is easy and fastest than using Resolve+Premiere combination.
Maybe the folks at VisionColor can do it in a future. Or Adobe can try to standarize CameraRAW setting for their apps. That would be nice...
Joaquin Torrents
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Jan Kluczewitz

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostWed Jul 08, 2015 6:22 am

For those who don't follow Vision-Color on Facebook:
Vision-Color wrote:We'll have a BMD4k in the office next week for ImpulZ 1.5 but we'll squeeze in some additional test/reference shots for the conversion LUT if possible.

(Talking about a conversion LUT from the "false" interpretation of 4K material in ACR to a correct one)
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Anna Petrova

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostMon Nov 16, 2015 8:51 pm

Any news about the ACR bmd4k support?
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Nick Papps

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostWed Dec 02, 2015 5:56 am

adamroberts wrote:
Joaquin Torrents wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but is there any obscure reason why Adobe Premiere cannot interpret the DNG like After Effects, Photoshop or Lightroom?
I've just bought it from Vision Color, but this could be extremely more useful if it could work in Premiere, at least for me...


Umm... Because Adobe had made a half hearted attempt at supporting CinemaDNG in Premiere Pro.

I'm sure they will improve it overtime...



Interesting, I've been racking my brain wondering why things look different in Premiere in terms of my Blackmagic's raw files:

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2018887?sr=inbox&ru=295382
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Nick Papps

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostWed Dec 09, 2015 10:06 pm

Do any of you know if the BMDfilm for ACR LUT comes with the Impulz LUTS Ultimate?

Thanks!
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Donnell Henry

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Re: BMDFilm in Adobe CameraRAW

PostWed Dec 09, 2015 10:24 pm

Thank you Adam, you're the man!
GODS CREATE

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